January 7, 2018 — Col. John Alexander

[William Strathmann]

I've definitely put a big friggin 'X' in the box asking: Will the U.S.A. defer its role in investigating any UAP phenomena. I'll leave that role to China or Russia . . .

Hummm . . . I came across the first photo, below, today, and remembered this ^^^ comment, so I started looking around a bit. It looks like Russia may be more susceptible to religious influence than the US.

NYET!!! NYET!!! DON'T BAPTIZE THE REACTOR CONTROL CONSOLE!!!!!

Warning by head of Russian Orthodox Church.

Another warning about aliens in the following:

And another Orthodox article.

 

[Randall]

The more people you share information with, the greater the risk that information is going to come back and haunt you. Look at the most recent Trump book. If some kind of actual official disclosure were to happen, one of the first questions is going to be "who knew what and when?"

That's just the thing. People have spoken out just as you suggest. Something is detected by a low level person who passes it along up the chain ( we've heard them speak out ). Sometimes interceptors are launched in response to get a better look, then we have pilots in the picture ( we've heard them speak out ) , and someplace higher along the way something happens to that report. At one time Blue Book and other UFO investigative projects were secret. Later they became public knowledge ( So we've heard them speak out too ).

And the higher up it goes, the fewer people are involved and the more restricted it gets, which means it's less likely for that level of info to get out ( just as you suggest ). But again, it's there someplace, and how many times have we been told there's nothing only to have some FOIA request turn up hundreds of pages? This TTSA leak is just the latest. When you add it all up the whole DoD has been leaking like a sieve for years with small stuff, but the big stuff still doesn't get through the filters and protocols.

 

[pigfarmer]

Hummm . . . I came across the first photo, below, today, and remembered this ^^^ comment, so I started looking around a bit. It looks like Russia may be more susceptible to religious influence than the US.

Uhhhh...blessed combloc AK47s (or 74s if they're new enough)? Nope.
A properly wielded 1903 Springfield however, divine.

 

[marduk]

Hummm . . . I came across the first photo, below, today, and remembered this ^^^ comment, so I started looking around a bit. It looks like Russia may be more susceptible to religious influence than the US.

NYET!!! NYET!!! DON'T BAPTIZE THE REACTOR CONTROL CONSOLE!!!!!

Warning by head of Russian Orthodox Church.

Another warning about aliens in the following:

And another Russian Orthodox article.

My god, that stuff seems right out of Dune.

"Long live the fighters!"

 

[Han]

I don't see it as any different to this:

Queen commissions warship in ceremony

Supreme Governor of the
Church of England

Flag of England and the Church of England

Incumbent
Elizabeth II
since 1952 (66 years)
Style Her Majesty
Residence Buckingham Palace
Inaugural holder Elizabeth I
Formation 1559

Supreme Governor of the Church of England - Wikipedia

 

[Ezechiel]

Hummm . . . I came across the first photo, below, today, and remembered this ^^^ comment, so I started looking around a bit. It looks like Russia may be more susceptible to religious influence than the US.

Warning by head of Russian Orthodox Church.

Another warning about aliens in the following:

And another Russian Orthodox article.

.... Damn !! Guess that leaves everything up to China

 

[William Strathmann]

I don't see it as any different to this:

Queen commissions warship in ceremony

Well, Han, I listened to your fair monarch's speech, and the BBC clip did not mention a thing about divinity or divine blessing. I also doubt that Queen Betty has ordered the Anglican Archbishop to make sure that Anglican priests baptize all military hardward, weapons or personnel. But you'd know more about that than I would. In any case, to me, it seems the Russian Orthodox Church is using its relatively new freedom from Soviet atheism to (re?)insert itself in a big way in Russian culture, including the military, and that is "surprising" to me, and not in a particularly "happy" way. I simply was not aware that Russian Orthodox priests were baptizing Mig's and Sukhoi's, missiles and rifles.

 

[Han]

HRH Queen Elizabeth the II is the the "supreme governor" of the "Church" of England.

She is chosen and anointed by god.
All of our Military ships and boats are called HMS ... as in her/his Majesties ship etc, and therefor by proxy they belong to god.

Whilst she doesn't use the traditional 'holy water' (Adams Ale) like the orthodox priests in ceremonies she does 'Christen'* the ship with some 'special water' (Champagne) or even sometimes (Aqua Vitae) Whisky.

"Wherever this ship may serve, whatever tasks may be asked of her, let all those who serve on her know that on this day she was blessed with the prayers of us all for her success and for her safe return to calm waters. "I name this ship Queen Elizabeth, may god bless her and all who sail in her."

Here are two long videos but if you skip through them you will notice the religious elements to the ceremony like hymns etc

Now I am sure this seems a bit odd, but then again:

USS Gerald R Ford christened in VA:

or

above: Nancy Reagan at the christening of the USS Ronald Reagan




*What's In A Name? The Weird World Of Christening Ships

 

[mike]

And this is why we cant have nice things like interstellar drive and contact with our neighbors.

 

[pigfarmer]

And this is why we cant have nice things like interstellar drive and contact with our neighbors.

 

[marduk]

Just finished listening.

Great, great episode and I agree with John’s position 90% of the time.

Great job interviewing him guys.

 

[Randall]

... I agree with John’s position 90% of the time ...

Now if I could just figure out what that position is. To paraphrase, it's always "Nobody understands how the DoD really works." ( First confuse people by making them think they don't know what's going on. ). Then it's, "People assume it's this way or that but it's really this way." ( followed by a whole bunch of nebulous non-specifics that avoids and deflects ). Followed by: "But that doesn't mean nothing is going on. We're as confused as everyone else" ( pleas of ignorance ). And then there's that other 10% sprinkled in there to make it all seem believable. He must have really loved his job in PSYOPS because it doesn't sound a lot to me like he's actually retired ... lol.

 

[marduk]

Now if I could just figure out what that position is. To paraphrase, it's always "Nobody understands how the DoD really works." ( First confuse people by making them think they don't know what's going on. ). Then it's, "People assume it's this way or that but it's really this way." ( followed by a whole bunch of nebulous non-specifics that avoids and deflects ). Followed by: "But that doesn't mean nothing is going on. We're as confused as everyone else" ( pleas of ignorance ). And then there's that other 10% thrown in there to make it all seem believable. He must have really loved his job in PSYOPS because it doesn't sound a lot to me like he's actually retired ... lol.

What he’s saying that I agree with:

- there’s no disclosure because there’s nothing to disclose
- what is coming to light doesn’t actually add to the debate in terms of answering what’s happening
- what was being spent by the government wasn’t enough to do anything
- what’s being given to DeLonge isn’t enough to achieve anything
- big budget organizations have clip levels of what people pay attention to, Elizondo’s program caught the wrong attention and got cut
- whatever external parties are creating this phenomenon are generally being assholes (no benevolent space brothers)

Ya?

 

[Randall]

What he’s saying that I agree with:

Okay, here are my opinions on that.

- there’s no disclosure because there’s nothing to disclose

B.S.

- what is coming to light doesn’t actually add to the debate in terms of answering what’s happening

But it has. His Jedi mind tricks don't work on me.

- what was being spent by the government wasn’t enough to do anything

Deflection. The money is being spent elsewhere. The report indicated a carrier group was tracking the object for a number of days. How much does that cost per day I wonder? Then again, maybe it was all just some training exercise. I dunno. But either way, just the shift in perception by the media is significant. You can't buy that sort of overnight paradigm shift with any amount of money.

- what’s being given to DeLonge isn’t enough to achieve anything

Again we have the shift in media perception, plus stuff was brought to light we didn't know about before. It's too early to say what else will happen. So how can we be so sure absolutely nothing will come of it? But I tend to agree that there won't be any big disclosure, and if any official comment is released, it will be some sort of story that describes the incidents part of routine training exercises.

- big budget organizations have clip levels of what people pay attention to, Elizondo’s program caught the wrong attention and got cut

On the other hand he says it's so small an expenditure that nobody cares or noticed, and when pressed on attention from who bothered to notice, Alexander is never clear on exactly how that works, cycling back to his "nobody understands how it works" routine.

- whatever external parties are creating this phenomenon are generally being assholes (no benevolent space brothers)

Or they're indifferent, possibly amoral, with no sense of right or wrong or justice the way we conceive of it. Although if any of the contact reports are true, the aliens do seem to have an appreciation for the natural world and don't think much of us and the way we're screwing it up and treating each other either. So maybe we shouldn't be so quick to judge them and have a closer look at ourselves.

Ya?

Ya. Basically all of that on both sides has elements worth considering.

 

[marduk]

Okay, here are my opinions on that.
B.S.

What's there to disclose? Why do we think the military/industrial complex has any greater awareness than anyone else?

Especially given that this phenomena interacts with individuals, not organizations?

But it has. His Jedi mind tricks don't work on me.

What do we know now that we didn't know then? Do we know anything more about their flight characteristics? Behaviour? Motivations? How to sense them?

All we know more now than we did a few months ago is that it's now demonstrable that someone in the military/industrial complex is interested in them, and that they have some footage we didn't see before -- and that footage doesn't do anything but verify what we already knew about whatever this is.

Deflection. The money is being spent elsewhere. The report indicated a carrier group was tracking the object for a number of days. How much does that cost per day I wonder? Then again, maybe it was all just some training exercise. I dunno. But either way, just the shift in perception by the media is significant. You can't buy that sort of overnight paradigm shift with any amount of money.

My point is that I seriously doubt there's a "Seen a UFO?" speed dial on everybody's phones - or any other rapid response mechanism that does anything but passively gather information. Just like MUFON and others passively gather information. Often the same or similar information.

Just like I doubt there's crashed saucers or that Bigelow has anything definitive. Look at what John said about the rods Chris mentioned - they were part of a lantern. OK, what does that mean?

Again we have the shift in media perception, plus stuff was brought to light we didn't know about before. It's too early to say what else will happen. So how can we be so sure absolutely nothing will come of it? But I tend to agree that there won't be any big disclosure, and if any official comment is released, it will be some sort of story that describes the incidents part of routine training exercises.
On the other hand he says it's so small an expenditure that nobody cares or noticed, and when pressed on attention from who bothered to notice, Alexander is never clear on exactly how that works, cycling back to his "nobody understands how it works" routine.

Fair point. Maybe I'm being jaded. But in Trump's 'murica, right is left and lies are truth, so who knows?

Or they're indifferent, possibly amoral, with no sense of right or wrong or justice the way we conceive of it. Although if any of the contact reports are true, the aliens do seem to have an appreciation for the natural world and don't think much of us and the way we're screwing it up and treating each other either. So maybe we shouldn't be so quick to judge them and have a closer look at ourselves.
Ya. Basically all of that on both sides has elements worth considering.

I think his point is that if they can do what they can do, they could help us and don't. So any thought of them being benevolent or 'here for our evolution' is pure BS.

I still fall on the side that they are either bad news or at least neutral, stupid, or here for reasons that have little or nothing to do with us. Or all 3.

I mean, if they truly appreciate the natural world, they'd give us the secrets to power their craft, or propulsion secrets to get off this rock in large numbers, or they'd just wipe us out or limit our population to a sustainable size. They're doing none of that. Therefore, they likely don't care about nature at all.

 

[Randall]

What's there to disclose? Why do we think the military/industrial complex has any greater awareness than anyone else?

We're talking DoD not the military industrial complex. Or are they considered part of it? It seems to me the industrial side still consists mainly of companies and corporations that make the equipment and it's the DoD and governmental agencies that make use of it.

Especially given that this phenomena interacts with individuals, not organizations?

The Washington DC flap of 52, as well as a number of military encounters, would seem to disprove that theory is universal.

What do we know now that we didn't know then?

The original context for this was, "- what is coming to light doesn’t actually add to the debate in terms of answering what’s happening." Now the you're being more specific, so it's a different question, and I'd say the answer depends on what you mean by "know" and who you ask.

Do we know anything more about their flight characteristics? Behaviour? Motivations? How to sense them?

That depends on who you mean by "we". Like you and I? If so I'd have to agree. As for them ( The PTB ), I can't say, but I think that given all the stuff they've got compared to you and I, that the chances of them having more than we do is a lot greater.

All we know more now than we did a few months ago is that it's now demonstrable that someone in the military/industrial complex is interested in them, and that they have some footage we didn't see before -- and that footage doesn't do anything but verify what we already knew about whatever this is.

Again that depends on who you mean by "we". There are a lot of other people out there who simply write the whole business off as nonsense. That's not as easy for them at the moment.

My point is that I seriously doubt there's a "Seen a UFO?" speed dial on everybody's phones - or any other rapid response mechanism that does anything but passively gather information. Just like MUFON and others passively gather information. Often the same or similar information. Just like I doubt there's crashed saucers or that Bigelow has anything definitive. Look at what John said about the rods Chris mentioned - they were part of a lantern. OK, what does that mean?

I don't recall suggesting everybody's phone has a speed dial for "Seen a UFO?" ... great idea. Isn't that something the TTSA also suggested. Some sort of crowd sourcing app. Sounds like a good idea to me.

Fair point. Maybe I'm being jaded. But in Trump's 'murica, right is left and lies are truth, so who knows?

So you're finally admitting to being jaded? I think most of us had already picked up on that, but FWIW, welcome to the club .

I think his point is that if they can do what they can do, they could help us and don't. So any thought of them being benevolent or 'here for our evolution' is pure BS.

Perhaps. Or perhaps it's not that simple. Maybe on an individual level it's a different story. Look at the way we humans are. In some places on the planet the standard of living and access to technology compared to ours might be looked at the same way. It's an entirely different world. We could certainly be doing a lot more to help them, but we don't. On an individual level we can be very empathetic but relatively powerless to do much.

What's an airline pilot flying over the Central African Republic supposed to do? Land the plane, give away all the food, and take as many passengers to Los Angeles to live as possible? And even if he or she could, then what? Does that make the airline pilot deserving of the same sort of criticism? Maybe.

Those poor people on the ground might be similarly justified in looking up at that plane and cursing it. The problem is that we as individuals ( in a general sense, me included ) are incapable of making a huge difference for them, and too selfish to sacrifice most of our possessions to help them. The aliens might be in a similar situation. But once in a while we do hear stories about seemingly miraculous healings. Now if we could just get an interstellar aid package, like plans for fusion power and antigravity propulsion that might also be helpful. But would we actually use it to help her ( below )?

I still fall on the side that they are either bad news or at least neutral, stupid, or here for reasons that have little or nothing to do with us. Or all 3.

You mean like the guy who took the picture of ( above )? You see? We don't know enough about them to be that judgemental. We know there are issues, and it's probably more complex than we realize.

I mean, if they truly appreciate the natural world, they'd give us the secrets to power their craft, or propulsion secrets to get off this rock in large numbers, or they'd just wipe us out or limit our population to a sustainable size. They're doing none of that. Therefore, they likely don't care about nature at all.

You mean just like all the people over here who build houses with electricity and hot and cold running water, sewage, and 3D or 4K big screen TVs don't care about nature or the people living in grass huts in Africa? Yes. It's probably something like that.

 

[marduk]

We're talking DoD not the military industrial complex. Or are they considered part of it? It seems to me the industrial side still consists mainly of companies and corporations that make the stuff and it's the DoD and so on that make use of it.

I consider the DOD part of the Military/Industrial complex, but that's just me.

The Washington DC flap of 52, as well as a number of military encounters, would seem to disprove that theory is universal.

Can you talk more about that? The pattern I seem to see is that the phenomena approaches individuals.

Our response to that phenomena is institutional - like sending fighter jets, shooting at them, and generally being not nice.

Their response to that is to either ignore it, or run away.

That's what I see but I'm fascinated by what you may be thinking here.

The original context for this was, "- what is coming to light doesn’t actually add to the debate in terms of answering what’s happening." Now the you're being more specific, that's a different question, and I'd say the answer depends on what you mean by "know" and who you ask.
That depends on who you mean by "we". Like you and I? If so I'd have to agree. As for them ( The PTB ), I can't say either, but I think that given all the stuff they've got compared to you and I, that the chances of them having more than we do is a lot greater.

Where I'm at is that the M/I complex has every reason to make us think they have the goods and think they have it all figured out, without necessarily actually having either of those things.

That's how they stay in power, right? And how they have people interested in this phenomena focused on the M/I complex rather than the phenomena itself?

It's a pure power play that is designed to control our attention and designed to reinforce our belief in the authority of the M/I complex in my opinion.

Again that depends on who you mean by "we". There are a lot of other people out there who simply write the whole business off as nonsense. That's not as easy for them at the moment.

I don't recall suggesting everybody's phone has a speed dial for "Seen a UFO?" ... great idea. Isn't that something the TTSA also suggested. Some sort of crowd sourcing app. Sounds like a good idea to me.

Lol, I was being facetious.

So you're finally admitting to being jaded? I think most of us had already picked up on that, but FWIW, welcome to the club .

Do we get a secret zeta reticuli decoder ring?

Perhaps. Perhaps it's something else. Maybe on an individual level it's a different story. Look at the way we humans are. In some places on the planet the standard of living and access to technology compared to ours might be looked at the same way. It's an entirely different world. We could certainly be doing a lot more to help them, but we don't. On an individual level we can be very empathetic but relatively powerless to do much.

What's an airline pilot flying over the Central African Republic supposed to do? Land the plane, give away all the food, and take as many passengers to Los Angeles to live as possible? And even if he or she could, then what? Does that make the airline pilot deserving of the same sort of criticism? Maybe.

Isn't that basically what neocolonialism did? Land, take most of their stuff, leave a capitalistic infrastructure in place so they can use their new visa card and plug their air conditioners bought with it into a socket?

Those poor people on the ground might be similarly justified in looking up at that plane and cursing it. The problem is that we as individuals ( in a general sense, me included ) are incapable of making a huge difference for them, and too selfish to sacrifice most of our possessions to help them. The aliens might be in a similar situation. But once in a while we do hear stories about seemingly miraculous healings. Now if we could just get an interstellar aid package, like plans for fusion power and antigravity propulsion that might also be helpful. But would we actually use it to help her ( below )?

Knowledge is free to give, though. You could land, give us the plans to a Mr Fusion device, and leave. For free. Why not do that?

A: they don't care to.

You mean like the guy who took the picture of ( above ) is to the person walking by the grass hut she lives in? You see? We don't know enough about them to be that judgemental. We know there are issues, and it's probably more complex that we realize.

Fair enough. But I'll maintain that for all the contactee warnings about war and environmental issues, they didn't work, because look at us.

If it was meant to work, they blew it. If it was a smokescreen or we made it up, then it worked.

 

[--Fin--]

I think the best argument for why aliens may not overtly "help" us is the religious one. We'd then treat them as Gods, never learn to tidy our own rooms, and would possibly never fully mature as a race. They'd become a crutch.. an excuse not to pull our fingers out and do our own dirty work.

 

[Randall]

Can you talk more about that? The pattern I seem to see is that the phenomena approaches individuals. Our response to that phenomena is institutional - like sending fighter jets, shooting at them, and generally being not nice. That's what I see but I'm fascinated by what you may be thinking here.

I'm just pointing out that there have been reports where it hasn't been just a sighting on a lonely road. If you review the DC 52 case there were two separate radar installations involved near the United States capitol city, numerous witnesses, and several intercepts by military jets in a cat and mouse game, that at one point resulted in UFOs surrounding one of the jets before streaking off into the distance.

Ruppelt tells how there have ben more than one USAF pilot who had seen UFOs, and that a number of commanders from the air bases he visited believe UFOs are real craft. These craft could certainly have chosen not to show up anywhere they could be detected if they wanted to. But right over the nation's capitol? Near military bases? Near nuclear facilities?

So while I agree that a UFO experience is transformative on a personal level, I'm less certain that they're picking any particular individual out of these cases as singularly important. However if you thought I was going in another direction I'd be interested in knowing what you think that might have been.

 

[pigfarmer]

Round and round we go.

To the original point of this thread; I had no trouble interpreting what Dr. Alexander said in his books or in this past interview. He seemed like a credible person to comment on the article. As I’ve said, I don’t believe he’s out to deceive anyone or that he’s some form of a Richard Doty. Take away what you will. I've come out of the wordwork to comment on this episode because it sounded more realistic to my ear than what I've heard other guests say.

He has a background most people don’t and couldn’t possibly say anything that wouldn’t cause some disagreement in this forum. I saw him as a convenient podcast guest without some shadowy ulterior motive.

Has anyone ever had to deal with the federal government for any mundane reason? I have on a few occasions on a very narrow, specific front and found it to be exasperating to say the least. It requires a different mindset, operates on its own timetable and has a language all its own. Nothing Dr. Alexander said regarding the bureaucratic digestive process surprised me.

As for ‘external parties responsible for this phenomenon’ my opinion is that we are looking at a mirror and that this is human nature at work. As for the few instances when there might be some tangible suggestion that it’s not – which I do want believe might be the case - fortunately for us direct unequivocal contact doesn’t seem to be on the menu. If there really is an external party at work perhaps that’s the best evidence of benevolence. When two civilizations or cultures meet when does it ever work out to the advantage of the less advanced one?