Ok that's quite a high orbit beyond the van allen belt.
Outward facing detectors would be unlikely to be looking for Russian or Chinese sats at that height.
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January 7, 2018 — Col. John Alexander
- Thread starter Gene Steinberg
- Start date
Ok that's quite a high orbit beyond the van allen belt.
Outward facing detectors would be unlikely to be looking for Russian or Chinese sats at that height.
pigfarmer
Paranormal Maven
Yes, I was speaking about Alexander. I believe the whole point behind Elizondo is that he's bent and wanted to make a public statememt, hence the article.
pigfarmer
Paranormal Maven
Van Allen belt indeed. I have a Carhartt on at the moment. Keeps my developing beer gut ultra secure....
I think it's a safe bet that our satellites are looking at the ground and very likely whatever another terrestrial agency put into orbit.
Regarding the article - the program was intended to study interactions with military assets and glean what they could through observation and whatever sensor data that was available. As Dr.Alexander said the military has the good stuff. And no, I doubt we'll hear about any results publicly.
Historically, a military agency has to have very, very compelling reasons to reveal a capability or specific knowledge. Battle of Midway, the Zimmerman telegram, etc. just off the top of my head.
Dr.Alexander mentioned that aerospace technology as we have understood it for the past few generations has reached it's limits. If a new capability were developed no matter how it had been derived it sure as hell wouldn't be causally revealed. If there were some external agency operating in our atmosphere - and despite my apparent skepticism I actually think there might be - a program like the one in the article seems a fairly logical response. Perhaps it's a low level approach to a low level of actual data.
Randall
J. Randall Murphy
I've never heard of a case where witnesses to a traffic accident said there was no accident.
I think you meant "proselytize", and I'd say that's debatable. People don't write books make media appearances and participate in speaking engagements before groups of people unless they're trying to get their views across.
pigfarmer
Paranormal Maven
A pox on me for poor spelling.
He said he didn't find any evidence of a secret program and thought one unlikely. Doesn't mean he knew about one.
As for making media appearances, writing books etc - they appear on podcasts to promote exactly these things. I don't think he's trying to change the world only relate his opinions and experiences. Quite a number of people have made names for themselves hawking all sorts of stuff that's far less believable.
He said he didn't find any evidence of a secret program and thought one unlikely. Doesn't mean he knew about one.
As for making media appearances, writing books etc - they appear on podcasts to promote exactly these things. I don't think he's trying to change the world only relate his opinions and experiences. Quite a number of people have made names for themselves hawking all sorts of stuff that's far less believable.
Oh and FYI: Col. Alexander says he retired from the Army in 1988 and had no involvement in the Pentagon UFO study.
Randall
J. Randall Murphy
Ya. I completely agree with you Chris. There's monitoring stations out past the Moon that look back on the far side of it. It's just not reasonable to think that with all the observation and detection equipment in use that they don't have way more than we're being told, and that means there has to be people who know about it, and in turn it's just not reasonable to think they'd do nothing with such extraordinary information.
After all, we know they had a division in the 60s dedicated to studying and reverse engineering foreign technology. I would imagine there's still something along those lines in place today. So why would such incredible technology be ignored? It seems to me it would have to be of primary interest, followed closely by all the military aircraft of other nations.
Admittedly this is all conjecture, or maybe closer to extrapolation. But the alternative is to suppose that for some unfathomable reason those who know about the info are so few and with so much authority that they can bury the most valuable intelligence they've spent billions acquiring at an instant's notice so that nobody finds out about it or does anything constructive with it. Is that at all reasonable? I don't think so.
marduk
quelling chaos since 2352BC
Right.
So what we need is the irrefutable evidence that is testable.
Not anomalous evidence that is interesting. Even really really interesting.
Like Bigfoot needs a body, we need a UFO or irrefutable data that is testable.
marduk
quelling chaos since 2352BC
I gotta say, so far I’m 100% with him on this interview. Great work on this one guys.
marduk
quelling chaos since 2352BC
It’s not big enough. The $22M was total spend. It probably was only a few people working on it each year.
That means they didn’t take it seriously in all likelihood.
marduk
quelling chaos since 2352BC
All it would take is one congressmen to find out who shrieks about all the government waste looking for bug eyed aliens to pull the pin on the whole deal...
Randall
J. Randall Murphy
Let's not forget we even had a guest on ( Irena Scott ) who saw satellite photos of craft she described as unknown metallic and circular. And then we have Donna Hare who claims to have seen photos of similar objects that were subject to censoring before being released from the lab. And we have the opener of Howard Blum's Out There in which he claims to have a military insider who described tracking objects.
There are pilot stories about pursuing UFOs and getting gun camera footage only to have it mysteriously disappear. There's even astronaut testimony to that effect. Now we have this TTSA stuff, and on top of that there are just way too many witnesses to assume that every civilian report is just a misperception, hoax, or whatever else the skeptics want it to be.
There are pilot stories about pursuing UFOs and getting gun camera footage only to have it mysteriously disappear. There's even astronaut testimony to that effect. Now we have this TTSA stuff, and on top of that there are just way too many witnesses to assume that every civilian report is just a misperception, hoax, or whatever else the skeptics want it to be.
Randall
J. Randall Murphy
Or so we might assume. Then again it seems to me there's money being spent on stuff nobody seems to be able to trace because they simply don't have access. We know it goes on but because we don't know all the details about what it's actually used for, there's no way to "pull the pin" on it. The UFO analysis part is most probably integrated so that it looks like it's part of everything else, and this TTSA stuff is just a sidecar project that's easy to shine a light on.
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Certainly that would be nice, But to use your example, Confirmation rocks were falling out of the sky wasn't necessary for the reality to be what it was.
marduk
quelling chaos since 2352BC
Not necessary for the reality, but necessary for the acceptance of the reality.
marduk
quelling chaos since 2352BC
I agree except the "integrated" part - integration of this kind of data would probably risk the source of the data.
PointLess
Paranormal Novice
I'm not sure I follow exactly. Can you clarify or elaborate?
pigfarmer
Paranormal Maven
Belatedly realized that. Thanks.
marduk
quelling chaos since 2352BC
The more people you share information with, the greater the risk that information is going to come back and haunt you.
Look at the most recent Trump book. If some kind of actual official disclosure were to happen, one of the first questions is going to be "who knew what and when?"
pigfarmer
Paranormal Maven
It only takes one white crow to prove not all crows are black so yes, I’d love to see some sort of irrefutable evidence but consider the possibility of that actually happening to be mighty slim. I also found that Irena Scott sounded extremely credible but personal testimony alone, and frankly even if she could produce the pictures she saw, unfortunately these days do not constitute that ‘white crow’.
Somewhere in this thread I thought I saw a comment about a group dedicated to studying foreign technology. I think historical precedent rather than speculation is a good way to extrapolate what might be going on. I’m a history geek. The development F6F Hellcat is a good example of foreign technology being studied and exploited – in this case a MitsubishiA6M. Top secret at the time and revealed rather quickly because of the war. Historical precedent is also why I think it’s safe to say that our best snoopers are pointed in, not out. Doesn’t mean they aren’t just that if you look at everything up to this point it’s much less likely.
The US Air Force at least has never had a truly large scale effort dedicated to the study of UFOs. Sign, Grudge and Blue Book were all relatively small affairs, poorly funded and run by junior officers. They made use of resources already in place. This is well in line with what Dr. Alexander, Nick Pope and even Captain Ruppelt have stated. This is why I thought the article was interesting but the scope of the program itself wasn’t overly surprising. It didn’t reveal any data just the fact that the study existed.
Suppose the NRO does in fact have high quality evidence of unknown craft operating in and around our atmosphere. Who says there is a mechanism in place to deal with that sort of information? What if it’s a ‘Skinwalker Ranch’ type of thing in which not much happens and when it does nobody knows what the hell to make of it – or would be willing to try for sake of their own credibility? On top of that, what are the chances that the general public would find out about it?
‘The military’ and ‘the government’ are not monolithic edifices and are run by people. We have fabulous multi-billion dollar warships out there that have been blundering into commercial shipping, reefs etc. Lack of internal communication, coordination, politics and prejudices are also a matter of historical precedent.
Not trying to be a wet blanket but I think that too much speculation based on fairly thin claims leads to hyperbole. One of the things I like about Dr. Alexander is that even though I am a bit skeptical about some of the things he’s written he is an extremely precise communicator.
Somewhere in this thread I thought I saw a comment about a group dedicated to studying foreign technology. I think historical precedent rather than speculation is a good way to extrapolate what might be going on. I’m a history geek. The development F6F Hellcat is a good example of foreign technology being studied and exploited – in this case a MitsubishiA6M. Top secret at the time and revealed rather quickly because of the war. Historical precedent is also why I think it’s safe to say that our best snoopers are pointed in, not out. Doesn’t mean they aren’t just that if you look at everything up to this point it’s much less likely.
The US Air Force at least has never had a truly large scale effort dedicated to the study of UFOs. Sign, Grudge and Blue Book were all relatively small affairs, poorly funded and run by junior officers. They made use of resources already in place. This is well in line with what Dr. Alexander, Nick Pope and even Captain Ruppelt have stated. This is why I thought the article was interesting but the scope of the program itself wasn’t overly surprising. It didn’t reveal any data just the fact that the study existed.
Suppose the NRO does in fact have high quality evidence of unknown craft operating in and around our atmosphere. Who says there is a mechanism in place to deal with that sort of information? What if it’s a ‘Skinwalker Ranch’ type of thing in which not much happens and when it does nobody knows what the hell to make of it – or would be willing to try for sake of their own credibility? On top of that, what are the chances that the general public would find out about it?
‘The military’ and ‘the government’ are not monolithic edifices and are run by people. We have fabulous multi-billion dollar warships out there that have been blundering into commercial shipping, reefs etc. Lack of internal communication, coordination, politics and prejudices are also a matter of historical precedent.
Not trying to be a wet blanket but I think that too much speculation based on fairly thin claims leads to hyperbole. One of the things I like about Dr. Alexander is that even though I am a bit skeptical about some of the things he’s written he is an extremely precise communicator.