If There Are No Real UFOs — Why?

[Constance]

There has been one such case (a filmed entry into the atmosphere and then a turnaround exiting back into space) that got leaked some years ago (I think it was from one of the NORAD platforms).

 

[SRL+]

There has been one such case (a filmed entry into the atmosphere and then a turnaround exiting back into space) that got leaked some years ago (I think it was from one of the NORAD platforms).

You’d think that Mr. Roe would have known about that. That would be a really good question to ask him.

 

[Constance]

I think that he and the other high-level researchers at NARCAP probably do know about it. If someone had asked him about it, it might have turned into a very interesting discussion. He said in his last post in the thread concerning his Paracast interview that all these people follow the ufo subject and discuss recent significant cases, often on private lists.

 

[SRL+]

I think that he and the other high-level researchers at NARCAP probably do know about it. If someone had asked him about it, it might have turned into a very interesting discussion. He said in his last post in the thread concerning his Paracast interview that all these people follow the ufo subject and discuss recent significant cases, often on private lists.

Do you know how to get on his PL?

 

[Constance]

Unfortunately I don't. Roe mentioned participating in one or two, and these are undoubtedly open only to those with a history of significant research on ufos. I wish it were otherwise.

 

[boomerang]

Evidence confiscated may only mean that those in possession of said evidence may not have the clearance for what that data represents. What that means - who knows, could be aliens, could be intelligent balls of light, or could be test craft? The only thing's for certain is that we are in fact seeing evidence of a control system at work, a very human one.

I would go one rung up the ladder of paranoia and say that these confiscations and warnings may not originate with human agencies at all. Perhaps the "agents" who confiscate and dole out stern warnings are either an alien intelligence or humans unwittingly operating on their behalf. Very woo-woo I admit. But then so is any possible explanation for the government's role in this.

 

[stonehart]

As ive stated before the post biological hypothesis ticks a number of boxes for me personally

This^^^^^^^^^^^

post bio seems very likely for me as well and frankly without turning this thread into a post human one it is damned inevitable in my opinion.

 

[SRL+]

If not the military, and if these things do actually exist, it’s most likely something beyond all human comprehension. As it was never human to begin with, and may emerge from an area of time and space that is not understood. Its pretty creepy to think about, I must admit.

 

[stonehart]

Evidence confiscated may only mean that those in possession of said evidence may not have the clearance for what that data represents. What that means - who knows, could be aliens, could be intelligent balls of light, or could be test craft? The only thing's for certain is that we are in fact seeing evidence of a control system at work, a very human one.

I would go one rung up the ladder of paranoia and say that these confiscations and warnings may not originate with human agencies at all. Perhaps the "agents" who confiscate and dole out stern warnings are either an alien intelligence or humans unwittingly operating on their behalf. Very woo-woo I admit. But then so is any possible explanation for the government's role in this.

That is kind of frightening when you stop to think about it.....

 

[SRL+]

Of course were just having fun bantering “what ifs”. I seriously doubt the military would truly have any idea what these things may possibly represent. I would also doubt that these “things” whatever they may represent, are here to harm us. I would suggest that we would not be here right now typing away if an intention was of harm. The universe is a big place, let alone the unknown, and unobservable. All of this understandably becomes problematic with the narratives that have been handed down over, perhaps centuries. I guess that’s just the way I would look at it as of right now.

 

[stonehart]

Of course were just having fun bantering “what ifs”. I seriously doubt the military would truly have any idea what these things may possibly represent. I would also doubt that these “things” whatever they may represent, are here to harm us. I would suggest that we would not be here right now typing away if an intention was of harm. The universe is a big place, let alone the unknown, and unobservable. All of this understandably becomes problematic with the narratives that have been handed down over, perhaps centuries. I guess that’s just the way I would look at it as of right now.

Here to harm us... yeah I agree with you on this, because at best I should expect if it is truly a "them" they are indifferent. If there is "harm" then it is in the way we would look at any other animal we were studying .. tag and monitor etc.
All conspiracy theory's aside I really do not think the governments of the world know much more than we do (except maybe radar and visual sightings or just "maybe" some physical evidence).
I would like to think Gene and Chris agree (maybe) with the above statement as they have been at the coal face so to speak for much longer that most of us here... I just don't think we know anymore now than we did 50 odd years ago.

 

[SRL+]

That isn't quite what I wrote, even though that impression seems to be popular. I think your right in the impression that there hasn’t been anything to learn, other than in the gathering of trace evidence, and energy emitted. It may even be that whatever is gleaned complicates things even more, in respect to grasping some type of meaningful explanation.

 

[Randall]

For whatever its worth, I’ve been following a few philosophers of science who propose that there may be areas of the unknown, unobservable universe that follow entirely different physical laws than ours. One philosopher in particular has placed forth a theory that he believes is testable. This theory suggests that woven into the fabric of our universe may reside a mechanism that is able to learn over time, in remembering the physical properties of newly developed materials which have never been introduced into our universe. He went on to speculate that if this theory were to be actually proven, there may then be ways of detecting civilizations that exist or have existed anywhere in which our particular physical laws apply.

I guess what I’m getting at here is that even though Hart-Fermi sounds most reasonable, and UAPs seem to defy our particular laws of physics, there may be another possible explanation for these sightings. And that is because these UAPs may emerge from an area of the unknown, unobservable universe where the physical laws may be different than ours. In saying all of this, NARCAP, or anyone else that we know of for that matter, has ever documented a UAP both entering, and then exiting our atmosphere. I also realize that this comes as no great comfort to the true UAP experiencer.

I see a host of problems in what is posted above, and if we can discuss it without anyone taking it all personally like Mr. NARCAP, maybe an interesting discussion will come out of it, and yes, the usage of the word UAP will come up, but first off, let's discuss the idea of what constitutes the "unknown, unobservable universe". There are subtle differences in the ways that different people define the observable universe, but it is generally an astronomical term for the volume of space that an observer would be capable of observing objects within from their particular vantage point within our spacetime continuum. This version assumes that the observer's telescope is of unlimited power and that they have an unobstructed view in all directions. Given this definition we can deduce that the "unobservable universe" would be the volume of space that lies beyond the range of the observer ( not merely hidden from view e.g. inside a black hole ) ...

Continued here ( a more appropriate thread for the details of this discussion ): Philosophy, Science, and the Unexplained | Page 47 | The Paracast Community Forums

 

[SRL+]

It was a nice friendly exchange while it lasted.

 

[Randall]

It was a nice friendly exchange while it lasted.

Give it a chance. It still is. When I use the word "problems" I don't mean you personally have "problems". I mean I see problems within the position put forward that if clarified and discussed rationally might lead to a clearer picture and some interesting discussion. But if this is going to go the way of Mr. NARCAP again, where everything I say gets taken personally, then that's another story.

 

[Burnt State]

I would go one rung up the ladder of paranoia and say that these confiscations and warnings may not originate with human agencies at all. Perhaps the "agents" who confiscate and dole out stern warnings are either an alien intelligence or humans unwittingly operating on their behalf. Very woo-woo I admit. But then so is any possible explanation for the government's role in this.

Well, that all just sounds more like a good plot line for a sci-fi movie, but I'm not sure so much of its reality. I could see corporate powers pulling deeper strings that control the military fantasies of the industrial light and sound complex that is technological advancement. But beyond that we're heading into breakaway civilization territory and maybe Bigelow is just one small example of that.

I thought that S.R.L. was onto something in terms of introducing other considerations and 'what if's' into the equation as that's really all we've got. In the anthropic reasoning of how this universe works, it gave birth to us to observe it and who is to say what else it's given birth to in terms of other types of civilizations that may or may not have passed through the filter of a Type 1 Civilization. The notions of Type 3 Civilizations existing makes UFO reports seem like that they have a basis inside a four billion year old galactic culture. However, you think that they would be ubiquitous by now and that we would all be paying taxes to them just for being in their galaxy. That does not seem to be the case given their purposeful elusive nature.

Some of the other possibilities, the rare earth civilization, for example, makes it all the less likely that we'll see anyone at all in our neck of the woods. That lack of documentation of crafts actually entering and exiting the atmosphere, going to and from space, makes us think more clearly about what actually is happening right here on our planet. The case for all these balls of light, UAP's, UFO's and UAWhatever else you want to make an acronym out of being part of this planet seems to be a more logical place to start. It seems that we repeatedly see what we expect to see - a universe that is responding to our limited sensory apparatus and our own current state of technological advancement, staying just a step or two in front to wow us. Seems like there's something else afoot than E.T.

 

[SRL+]

Give it a chance. It still is. When I use the word "problems" I don't mean you personally have "problems". I mean I see problems within the position put forward that if clarified and discussed rationally might lead to a clearer picture and some interesting discussion. But if this is going to go the way of Mr. NARCAP again, where everything I say gets taken personally, then that's another story.

Randall, it’s pretty obvious when you start a post in the way in which you presented it, I have a fairly good idea of where it’s going. And it’s not as though I’m not interested in what you have to say, it’s just the way in which you’re probably going to say it. Besides, I have to leave the basement for a while in order to eke out my financial existence.

 

[Randall]

Randall, it’s pretty obvious when you start a post in the way in which you presented it, I have a fairly good idea of where it’s going. And it’s not as though I’m not interested in what you have to say, it’s just the way in which you’re probably going to say it. Besides, I have to leave the basement for a while in order to eke out my financial existence.

Maybe the way you think I say it has more to do with the personal filters applied on your end than what is actually being said. My only intent in starting with a disclaimer on the word UAP, is because you used it, and therefore it needs to be addressed, but because we've had problems with that recently, I want to head off another repeat session of that nonsense. Like @Gene Steinberg said on the Paracast ( to paraphrase ), "It seems that when on a forum, sometimes people are more bold or prone to saying things they wouldn't normally say in person."

That may be true in some cases, but in these cases, I submit that the perceived boldness is the result of a personal filter on the part of the reader, and not something infused into the words themselves that magically imparts my tone of voice or intended delivery. Maybe that's why when Gene talks to the same people on the phone or in person, he gets a whole different impression. Without those cues that we get from an in-person discussion, our minds are free to add whatever coloration it wants, whether it's accurate or not, and then exaggerate it beyond all reason. So instead of making assumptions along those lines, try seeing the content for what it is saying with respect to the obvious point being stated. You may find that it has more going for it than you're assuming.

 

[SRL+]

If an isolated case I would agree, but not so.

 

[Randall]

If an isolated case I would agree, but not so.

It is entirely possible that every single impression you have had so far is a misinterpretation and/or exaggeration focused more on my intent than on the content. In fact, you have no evidence to indicate otherwise. So why perpetuate a false impression rather than discussing the points you raised in your post? They are interesting enough without getting derailed on presumptions about personalities, and by addressing the content, we might just make some progress. Don't you think? Here's the link again to where we can continue with the discussion and leave this part of the conversation behind: Philosophy, Science, and the Unexplained | Page 47 | The Paracast Community Forums