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I am concerned and you should be TOO!!

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OK so we've heard the rationale that "You can't blame corporations for wanting to protect themselves from lawsuits". Fine, but what happened to protecting customers from hazardous products? When did it all get turned around so that huge corporations are perceived as being fair by making customers responsible for company lawsuits? It's gotten so bad that with some companies that you don't even have to buy their products, like when some corporation's genetically modified seeds blow off a truck and contaminate a farmer's private land, and yet it's the farmer who ends up getting sued for patent violations ... and loses ( yes that's a real case ). It's all symptomatic of an insidious abuse of power. It's crept in so slow that people think it's perfectly normal, but it's just plain wrong. However so long as we get our instant gratification ( instant banking, instant entertainment, instant communication ... etc. ) we think it's OK and keep drinking the cool-aid.
 
Jihadist Sympathizer Busted in New York City​
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Setup? Entrapment? Aiding & Abetting? Or legitimate Bust?​
 
stonehart said:
all of the above depending on your prospective on the situation.

I guess the idea here is to weed out those that harbor intentions to cause a terrorist act.
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We'd have to know more about the suspect to know if it was the right thing though. Was he was just some idealistic misguided youth or someone on a wanted list with a proven terrorist history? If he was the former, I don't think it's fair to presume what he might have done based on some rebellious Internet posts and then set them up to make that prophecy come true. What young man isn't a bit rebellious against authority? What if they'd led him down another path? For example deprogrammed him out of a Jihadist mentality, helped him get a job and some education and make some friends with some good people? Would this bomb plot ever materialized? I seriously doubt it. But now they've gone and cemented all the betrayal and hate and everything that gave this guy a reason to justify his plot in the first place. On the other hand, if they can establish this guy had a history and has already participated in attacks elsewhere ... then he's exactly where he should be.
 
ufology said:
We'd have to know more about the suspect to know if it was the right thing though. Was he was just some idealistic misguided youth or someone on a wanted list with a proven terrorist history? If he was the former, I don't think it's fair to presume what he might have done based on some rebellious Internet posts and then set them up to make that prophecy come true. What young man isn't a bit rebellious against authority? What if they'd led him down another path? For example deprogrammed him out of a Jihadist mentality, helped him get a job and some education and make some friends with some good people? Would this bomb plot ever materialized? I seriously doubt it. But now they've gone and cemented all the betrayal and hate and everything that gave this guy a reason to justify his plot in the first place. On the other hand, if they can establish this guy had a history and has already participated in attacks elsewhere ... then he's exactly where he should be.
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Actually the tactics being employed by by the US security agencies in entrapment (for that is just what this is) is no different than similar methods employed by the STASI and the KGB.... Those guys were meant to be evil and nasty... so what went wrong? This is not just an isolated incident, and not refined to those with Islamic sympathies either as there are Occupy protesters and supposed self styled Anarchists that have fallen to this entrapment method as well. I think the question begs asking "in a free and open society, why do you have so many dissenting groups?"
 
stonehart said:
Actually the tactics being employed by by the US security agencies in entrapment (for that is just what this is) is no different than similar methods employed by the STASI and the KGB.... Those guys were meant to be evil and nasty... so what went wrong? This is not just an isolated incident, and not refined to those with Islamic sympathies either as there are Occupy protesters and supposed self styled Anarchists that have fallen to this entrapment method as well. I think the question begs asking "in a free and open society, why do you have so many dissenting groups?"
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The Occupy/Anonymous people were originally protesting about the corrupt rip-off artists on Wall Street who seem to have been aided and abetted from the inside on various levels all the way up to Bush Jr. who according to one documentary I watched, pardoned one of the top people convicted. That is a whole other issue from submitting to word of Allah. A misguided rebellious youth who gets nudged along by a bunch of undercover cops eager for a bust is much different than a terrorist with several operations under his belt. The underlying motivations for those who attack or criticize the system seems to be anger or religious ideology. The former is directed at those driven by greed ( criminal or otherwise ) while the latter is aimed at societies that in their minds should be governed by the church instead of secular courts. I think that part of the latter is sometimes fueled by jealousy and/or hate that has been propagated by poverty and/or war.
 
ufology said:
The Occupy/Anonymous people were originally protesting about the corrupt rip-off artists on Wall Street who seem to have been aided and abetted from the inside on various levels all the way up to Bush Jr. who according to one documentary I watched, pardoned one of the top people convicted. That is a whole other issue from submitting to word of Allah. A misguided rebellious youth who gets nudged along by a bunch of undercover cops eager for a bust is much different than a terrorist with several operations under his belt. The underlying motivations for those who attack or criticize the system seems to be anger or religious ideology. The former is directed at those driven by greed ( criminal or otherwise ) while the latter is aimed at societies that in their minds should be governed by the church instead of secular courts. I think that part of the latter is sometimes fueled by jealousy and/or hate that has been propagated by poverty and/or war.
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Fair analogy of it. But I was referring to the same entrapment tactic being used on both kinds of people. But then again those that are being "entrapped" could just as easy turn around and go to the police and say "hey there is this group of people who are talking about doing this or that", so in retrospect they did not have to go through with any sort of terrorist attempt if you get what I mean.

The out come would be much different if you see where I am going with this. Those that have been the focus of these stings could have at any point gone to the authorities and made them aware of the situation. So I guess its really an issue of intent.

Like I have said before there are good people out there trying to do their best in a messy system to protect people, yeah our politicians etc are corrupt there is no doubt, but the average policeman etc for the most part are good people just trying to their best.
 
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Stonehart I think there's an app for that ;)


OK so we've heard the rationale that "You can't blame corporations for wanting to protect themselves from lawsuits". Fine, but what happened to protecting customers from hazardous products? When did it all get turned around so that huge corporations are perceived as being fair by making customers responsible for company lawsuits? It's gotten so bad that with some companies that you don't even have to buy their products, like when some corporation's genetically modified seeds blow off a truck and contaminate a farmer's private land, and yet it's the farmer who ends up getting sued for patent violations ... and loses ( yes that's a real case ). It's all symptomatic of an insidious abuse of power. It's crept in so slow that people think it's perfectly normal, but it's just plain wrong. However so long as we get our instant gratification ( instant banking, instant entertainment, instant communication ... etc. ) we think it's OK and keep drinking the cool-aid.
Click to expand...

Not to overuse a cliche' but in this case I believe it fits well. Called "boiling the frog".

If you put a frog in boiling water it will jump out, but if you gradually raise the temperature the frog will stay in the water until it's boiled.

The things you are seeing with politics, culture and corporations are gradual changes with us being the frogs. I remember when the water was much cooler. One could argue that the outcome is a natural progression of culture and the times we are in, but in a more subtle way social engineering has been happening for years. The older you are, I think the more you realize just how much has changed and how much things continue to change.

I didn't believe the Mayan calender was the end of the world, but I do think the world is in for a ride in the near future. In the past we had the great depression and a couple of world wars. This time though, the balances are different and a lot has changed with respect to the world in general. The stage has been set for another thing altogether. Pissed off people are just the thing to get the ball rolling. Anarchy, rioting and marshal law in that order and that's all it takes.

Should we be afraid? Is there anything anyone can do? Can it be stopped? I guess that depends on how you fall in your opinions of what will happen. I am concerned but not really overly concerned. I am more concerned for others.
 
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