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Hmmm... Ready for the first U.S. Dictator?

cottonzway said:
That is the attitude of someone who will give into being a slave IMO. Sorry man, but it is.

I'm not offended and you're right, it is. Why you may ask? Because we have a difference of ideological opinion. We agree that resistance to tyranny is vital and necessary and that freedom is precious. We seem to disagree at the point where that tyranny becomes overt, naked and overwhelming. At that point I will have no choice but to submit. You will no doubt label that cowardice, whereas I consider the alternative suicide.

Those who die for the cause are only heroes if the cause prevails and you cannot stop a mack truck by simply standing in it's path and yelling "stop".

As for Ron Paul, I wish him luck. He'll never win but maybe he will do enough to shake up things in America. Maybe. Then again, American Idol was renewed for another season...
 
CapnG said:
I'm not offended and you're right, it is. Why you may ask? Because we have a difference of ideological opinion. We agree that resistance to tyranny is vital and necessary and that freedom is precious. We seem to disagree at the point where that tyranny becomes overt, naked and overwhelming. At that point I will have no choice but to submit. You will no doubt label that cowardice, whereas I consider the alternative suicide.

Those who die for the cause are only heroes if the cause prevails and you cannot stop a mack truck by simply standing in it's path and yelling "stop".

As for Ron Paul, I wish him luck. He'll never win but maybe he will do enough to shake up things in America. Maybe. Then again, American Idol was renewed for another season...

I just don't understand how you could say that. What would be the point of living in a society like that? "I would rather die on my feet then live forever on my knees."

Living in a soceity that is ran by sociopaths is not living. It's just exsisting. My couch exsists. My car exsists. I on the other hand, live. Our country only exsists now because a lot of people either are afraid or ignore the problems that are going on. I'm going to stand and fight and to be honest it makes me a bit sad reading someone who knows what is going on admitting they are going to lay down. I'm just not built that way.
 
cottonzway said:
I just don't understand how you could say that. What would be the point of living in a society like that? "I would rather die on my feet then live forever on my knees."

Living in a soceity that is ran by sociopaths is not living. It's just existing. My couch exists. My car exists. I on the other hand, live.

Would it help you to know I don't believe in an after life? As far as I am concerned I merely exist. And as long as that's the case existence, ANY existince is preferable to non-existence. Something rather than nothing.

You should also know I'm not an American, so I don't have the same cultural drives you do.
 
CapnG said:
Would it help you to know I don't believe in an after life? As far as I am concerned I merely exist. And as long as that's the case existence, ANY existince is preferable to non-existence. Something rather than nothing.

You should also know I'm not an American, so I don't have the same cultural drives you do.

Not really seeing as I don't base any of my views to have anything to do with the after life. I don't think people should fight because "god" tells them to or anything. I only would do this because it is simply the right thing to do.

I just don't understand how you could be happy like that. A life of misery isn't living to me. Life is about what you get out of it IMO. What happens after you die is secondary to living a real life and standing up for the right things. I think that is what makes us humans, in particular in males.

I guess the cultures could make a difference, but I don't see how any human being wouldn't want to be free. I guess for myself I don't know another way but to take these types of people head on and make it so future generations have freedom. I'm a person who studies history and I know this country is far from perfect. The way it was designed though is the right way for people to live. I take great pride in that. I also get very angry when people try to take it from me and my fellow Americans. So I guess how we look at this is based on that because I have pride in the creation of this country and I look to protect it from evils foreign or domestic.

I still really don't understand why you would lay down though. I don't intend to insult you by saying that, but I just don't understand it. I think there is a part in humans, regardless of race, creed, color, geographic location, ect that has this burning desire to fight bullies. I honestly hope that someday that is "turned on" in you because that is what life is all about IMO.
 
I've asked this before but I'll ask it again: if they really did throw down the gauntlet, have outright martial law, a total police state, HOW exactly would you resist?

Protest? Protest never stopped anything. Funding resistance? They can delete your bank account at will. With guns? You think they're going to be kind enough to present you with a target? Do you honestly believe an all encompassing plan for total control hasn't taken such things into account?

Now, I understand your will to resist. That's natural and that's fine if you win. But if you lose, you're dead and everyone else remains enslaved. That's why I labeled it "suicide" earlier.

Make no mistake, I admire your conviction but I simply cannot share it.
 
Geez. I hope before you guys arm yourselves and start the revolution you've got some rationale that's a little more sound than this National Continuity Policy. It's a harmless risk management statement, that a few wild-eyed cellar dwellers decided could be used to whip up a handful of readers who wouldn't take the time to read the Policy and see it for what it really is. (I asked here for someone to point to specific provisions of the Policy that caused them concern and, so far, nothing.) I can understand the need for vigilance but seeing a sniper in every tree is unhealthy.
 
jerseyredq said:
Geez. I hope before you guys arm yourselves and start the revolution you've got some rationale that's a little more sound than this National Continuity Policy. It's a harmless risk management statement, that a few wild-eyed cellar dwellers decided could be used to whip up a handful of readers who wouldn't take the time to read the Policy and see it for what it really is. (I asked here for someone to point to specific provisions of the Policy that caused them concern and, so far, nothing.) I can understand the need for vigilance but seeing a sniper in every tree is unhealthy.

Not sure if your remarks were inspired by anything I've said, but will comment anyway just for the heck of it. Personally (meaning I have no need for any one to agree or change their minds about the matter) I don't see a reason to go the way of Bill Cooper, who's now dead due to going the arms route. I'll stay gunless. I would take my own life (without taking the lives of others) or move instead of living in a country where I'm at war with neighbors or what is supposed to be my own gov. If things get that bad, it's not worth saving, since you just run the risk of it happening again anyway. So you only have a chance at a potential delay in how things are, or would have become. I also think the pen is mightier than the sword in dealing with effective/benefical change. If it fails, then I wouldn't sell out and join them because my way didn't beat them. Violence usually only works temporarily and the smaller the scale the better. Knocking out a rapist right before, during or after a rape, then locking his azz up is good in my view, but Bill Cooper was more of a chest thumper with some crazy ideas that ended up dead. Far from a hero in my view.

My un trained trigger finger would at best take out a soldier, if lucky, two soldiers before they kill me anyway. Futile. I agree with Bill Mahr, when he said, "If the Janet Reno wants to come in, he'll come in". Ok, I added the "he'll" part:) A rifle is no match for a tank.
 
A. Leclair wrote...
I would take my own life (without taking the lives of others) or move instead of living in a country where I'm at war with neighbors or what is supposed to be my own gov. If things get that bad, it's not worth saving, since you just run the risk of it happening again anyway.
I'm more reacting to the very pessimistic tone expressed than any particular comment. I've read a great deal of material the last few years expressing very dark sentiments about the future.

I understand that there's an element in the human soul that always sees the current state as dire, notwithstanding reality. But, it's absolutely irrefutable, by virtually every measure, that we're living in the best times in the history of mankind. Yet there's a large cadre of people who see catastrophe at every turn, and who fail to see the future with the great expectations called for. This country has issues, for sure. But we have nowhere near the issues of the past. In my relatively short life time (longer than many of you, for sure, but not THAT long!) I remember air raid drills, in anticipation of a nuclear war. I remember the draft and Vietnam. I remember Watergate. I remember broad-based denial of rights based on color or creed. I remember Jimmy Carter ripping the soul out of America with his "the best is past" nonsense.

There's an interesting book, "The Progress Paradox", which addresses the phenomenon of people always looking at the past as the good old days, and ignoring the objective evidence that the state of our world today is far better than any "old days".

The people and institutional safeguards inherent in our form of government ensure that our freedoms will be maintained. I've heard the bells of warning for years now, up to and including the National Continuity Policy. Yet, people still have freedom of speech, assembly, religion, press. If anything our freedoms are more robust today than at any time in history.

In short, I'm quite confident that America has a self-balancing mechanism that will ensure our system sustains itself. But when we have a Presidential candidate who proclaims that there is no war on terror, coming only weeks before the attempts at Fort Dix and JFK Airport, what we have to fear is complacency and the "love me" brand of diplomacy--not a governmental usurpation or a dictatorship. Concerns that are neither practical nor probable only serve to take our eye off the very real risks that threaten to assault us; and those threats come, for the most part, from outside our borders, not from a government which is, for the most part, us.
 
jerseyredq said:
Geez. I hope before you guys arm yourselves and start the revolution you've got some rationale that's a little more sound than this National Continuity Policy. It's a harmless risk management statement, that a few wild-eyed cellar dwellers decided could be used to whip up a handful of readers who wouldn't take the time to read the Policy and see it for what it really is. (I asked here for someone to point to specific provisions of the Policy that caused them concern and, so far, nothing.) I can understand the need for vigilance but seeing a sniper in every tree is unhealthy.

Let's take this slowly....

Yes you did ask about the bill. I did not answer the question because quite frankly it is pretty self explainitory. In the event of (various events) the acting president controlls government. Do you disagee that it what it says in clear english?

Now you talked about in the post after this one how our freedoms are much greater now. Wow. Really? Care to explain:

The Patroit Act (in particular section 802)
The Military Commission Act HR 6166
US Code Title 50 Chapter 32 Section 1520A

Let's just start with those 3 as extreme examples of how wrong your comment about our freedom is. Are you informed about these issues? Please just take the time to look up those three examples and tell me how they give us (American people) more freedom. I look forward to your reply to this.
 
jerseyredq said:
There's an interesting book, "The Progress Paradox", which addresses the phenomenon of people always looking at the past as the good old days, and ignoring the objective evidence that the state of our world today is far better than any "old days".

That's probably because bubbles burst and if modern society's bubble bursts, recovery will be almost impossible. We're just waiting for the "pop".
 
I still think you should fight them Capn. You are a much more complete and honest person knowing you are fighting against people who want to kill billions of human being. It's one thing to not be informed or to just not look at the info and another to know but be their slave. You do live on even if when you die there is nothing because your honor and courage live on. You leave that to humanity and nobody can take it from you. It's worth fighting for.
 
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