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George Knapp - March 15

Kevin Daly

Skilled Investigator
Well, having heard from sane non-morons for two weeks running, I've got to say it's a nice feeling...like just for once I don't have to shovel out a load of crap that's seeped into my brain through my poor abused ears.

Good show.
 

Stillborn

Skilled Investigator
David was quite nice about it but the truth is that anyone who thinks that we are at the point of conducting a study of the propulsion system of UFOs is a moron. The fact that Knapp presented this ludicrous idea as plausible does not bode well for his judgment.

Hey, how about a study of the eating habits of the aliens? Let's find out what they like for Breakfast, Lunch AND Dinner!

Perhaps Bassett was correct. Is there anyone who is not an idiot in this field? Why even bother?

I'm open to it. Consider me a moron. Though Dulce isn't anything more than Rumor iirc. This was mentioned in the OP, so not sure if you are mostly referring to that. I am also open to the possibility we've recovered disc and reason humans have tried to study it. Why wouldn't they? Or do you mean, understand it? There's some good theories about how saucers or ufos fly. This doesn't mean it is indeed what these beings use, but the fact that some scientist can comprehend much of it places the possibility on the scope imo. We don't know how far advanced even our own military is. Unless you are some sort of insider, your guess is no better than others generally speaking.

Are you in the field? Apparently you think you aren't an idiot. And if you aren't in the field, how would you know for sure we aren't studying ufo propulsion?

Bassett said everyone is an idiot? He include himself? I never finished the episode.

Why bother? Same reason I play music. Because most music sucks isn't a reason to put down my instrument, but a better reason to pick it up.
 

valiens

Skilled Investigator
In the real world, one might suggest proving that UFOs even exist as craft BEFORE conducting studies of what brand of gasoline they use is sort of the sane way to approach this.
Dr. Paul Hill, a NASA engineer, wrote what is considered one of the best books in the field called Unconventional Flying Objects: A Scientific Analysis. It was suppressed by NASA and published after he died. It's about trying to reverse-engineer, if you will, the UFO's propulsion system based partially his own UFO sightings.
 

NNN

Paranormal User/Skeptic
Quotes: "no conclusive evidence", "no real evidence"

What did Mr. Biedny see in Venezuela, then? (Listen to the relevant Paracast podcast)

Are you asking me to assume that David is a blatant liar? I've listened to nearly every Paracast podcast and if David has lied about his Venezuela experience then he has gone to a lot of trouble to sound like a credible witness judging by what else I've heard him say.

It's interesting to note that the Human race managed to learn and make progress without modern means to provide each other with impressive videos and the like.

Advances in technology have raised the bar in terms of what is required as evidence leading to belief. Maybe we should not be so quick to ignore what people simply say. Otherwise, we may miss something important.
 

Rocketsauce

Haagen-Dazs Addict
Great episode! George is a great guest.

The info about his contact who said we have a craft and a body was really interesting to me since that was an idea I was close to abandoning as a reality. It will be interesting to see what develops if and when the gentlemen with the video passes on, but I wouldn't hold my breath knowing how this field works.

It was also interesting to hear how many people he worked with over the years was 'visited' by agents regarding secrecy. His story about the agency that transports nukes was also very interesting as well.

I actually wish more engineers would study the UFO phenomena to get ideas on developing new technology. Engineers get a lot of ideas for things from all types of inspirations. Doesn't mean they can reverse engineer technology from other dimensions, but they can certainly get more data and use it as inspiration for brainstorming on new tech. Engineers often get ideas and concepts from all types of out of the box phenomena.
 

Bixyboo

Skilled Investigator
Dr. Paul Hill, a NASA engineer, wrote what is considered one of the best books in the field called Unconventional Flying Objects: A Scientific Analysis. It was suppressed by NASA and published after he died. It's about trying to reverse-engineer, if you will, the UFO's propulsion system based partially his own UFO sightings.
Thanks for this info, I'm gonna check this book out one of these days:)
 

NNN

Paranormal User/Skeptic
lancemoody, I didn't say anything about propulsion and you seem to have ignored my last point.

As it happens, I am inclined to agree with you that knowledge of any alien propulsion system's function is likely to remain elusive if such craft are merely observed from a distance and while our knowledge of physics would be insufficient.

I am interested to know what you would regard as proof of Alien visitation.
 

mike

Paranormal Adept
David was quite nice about it but the truth is that anyone who thinks that we are at the point of conducting a study of the propulsion system of UFOs is a moron. The fact that Knapp presented this ludicrous idea as plausible does not bode well for his judgment.

Hey, how about a study of the eating habits of the aliens? Let's find out what they like for Breakfast, Lunch AND Dinner!

Perhaps Bassett was correct. Is there anyone who is not an idiot in this field? Why even bother?
i can only speak for myself, why do i bother ?

ive never seen a UFO, bugger disclosure before i shuffle off, id like to just see one. but enough supposedly sensible people have seen something.

airline pilots, police officers, astronoughts, ex presidents


people are seeing something, and some of the possible explainations for these sightings constitute in my eyes at least, perhaps the most important piece of human history ever. the reality that we are not alone

definative answers, the veritable mother load of data is out there, and it will be found, but only if ppl are looking for it.

thats why i bother, if you dont seek, you dont find........
 

David Biedny

Paranormal Adept
It is astounding that David's event did not generate any photographs. And that it is not even known among UFO buffs. And yet, according to him, it happened in front of lots of people--there are not many cases like the one he described and yet sum total of the hard evidence is well, nothing.
Is it really astounding? I don't think so.

On September 11, 2001, when Flight 11 hit the north tower of the WYC, there were millions of people in NYC, lots of folks on the street that morning, yet there exists only one piece of visual evidence of that first event. You remember the tons of material on the second impact, one of which I'm personally connected to (through my friend Scott Myers), but there is only that one video. Yes, many other people saw what I witnessed that day, but for the short duration, we were all stunned, staring at something your mind does not instantly accept. Just because we haven't seen a photo of this doesn't mean it doesn't exist in a desk drawer somewhere in Caracas, maybe somewhere else on this planet, WTF knows?

I agree in that I'm surprised that this episode is not documented in the larger annals of english-language UFO material, but it happened. It's not some figment of my imagination. My brother is not imagining either. My parents both saw it, everyone on the streets around us saw it. When we got back to the hotel, everyone in the lobby was talking about it. It was on the front page of at least two papers the next morning. There's a guy who writes a blog on Venezuelan UFO activity, Héctor Escalante, I've asked him to help me track down microfilm on the papers (could be 2001, El Universal, or one other from the period), nothing yet.

Yes, it's all quite frustrating. That's the way things are in this sandbox, on all fronts. You've got to be crazy, or screwed by the actual experience(s) to end up spending any time on this stuff.

dB
 

valiens

Skilled Investigator
Really? What kind of speed have we gotten out of the Hill research? Are we up to light speed yet? half light? impluse?

No engine? Is there one solid result from this "suppressed" research?

No nothing, huh?

And that is one of the best books in the field. What do the lesser books teach us?

Like shooting fish in a barrel.

Gee, LanceMOODY, I didn't realize shooting fish was the game here. I thought I was providing you information you might not have known about since you vomited that "Robert Bigelow is funding a study of the propulsion systems of UFO's. 'To find out how they fly,' I think Knapp says. To me this is as ludicrous as anything I heard Michael Horn say."

Apparently a NASA engineer didn't think so, regardless of what became of his work. I suppose I could just nod my head and agree with the arrogant anonymous poster of a message board... or I could factor in what the NASA engineer has to say about useful data from observation. Hmmmmm... decisions.
 

jritzmann

Skilled Investigator
The time frame claimed for this case make all the above very reasonable things that SHOULD have happened. IF THE CASE WAS REAL!

Which it isn't.
Yeah well, You'll have to excuse me when someone apparently not even remotely involved in the case levels a judgment based on...oh...nothing.
 

David Biedny

Paranormal Adept
Lance,

Skepticism is widely respected on these forums, but to make that kind of statement on the O'Hare incident is not too sharp, IMO. While none of us will claim to tell you we know exactly what happened that day, something unusual did happen. Stating that it absolutely didn't occur seems sort of shmetzy. But whatever floats your dendrites.

dB
 

jritzmann

Skilled Investigator
I may not be involved in the case (whatever the hell that means) but I am involved in actually being alive and somewhat aware of how things work in this century.
It means being actively involved in investigating the sighting: speaking to witnesses, and officials, gathering and evaluating visual (or otherwise) evidence...ya know, stuff that requires effort past leveling a judgment based on hearsay and armchair research.

A "huge" flying saucer hanging above an airport for a long period of time (at least a half hour, no?) would HAVE to generate photos as I describe. Unless the event is not the same one sold by the believers.
No, not at least a half hour, 15-20 minutes.

I don't know where you arrive at "huge" but by accounts it was between 6-24 ft in size. That's not huge by any stretch. The 3 witnesses I have spoken with personally said at times it was "very hard to see" or "hard to focus on" by way of an almost camouflage like skin, and it's gray-ish color. The bottom also was described as having a fine "video static" appearance. One witness said it was if the craft was surrounded by gnats.

So, judging by the weather that day, size, and light gray camo/reflective color, I'm not surprised there's been no more photos. On a cell screen? I doubt you'd even see it in the after-shot preview if it was in fact as the witnesses claimed.

Is it a 100% solid sighting? To a point. Do I think as you do that it "wasn't real", as in hoax? No, and I find that premise to be ridiculous. If you knew anything about the airline and it's standing at that point in time, and the employees, you'd realize quick no one was going to put lives at risk in a post 9-11 airport for a joke or hoax.

Now "real" as in "ping a rock real"? Who's to say. We don't know enough about the phenomena to say that in any case.
 

wicro

Skilled Investigator
"They were all lying?"

No.

But mistaken, maybe.

One witness said he thought it might be a balloon (one of THE most common UFO sources). This is ignored, of course by the true blue believers.

EDIT: Now that I see Jeff's response above (which must have appeared while I maniacally typed my own magical words herein) I must say that the description is REMARKABLY like a balloon. Ignored here, of course but I thought I would mention it.

The estimates of height and size are, as you know, so notoriously unreliable that one must wonder why anyone serious would use them at all.
Lance, I would consider myself a 'skeptic' as well, but as a skeptic I have to consider the possibility that that what ever was seen that day could be something 'unknown' (including extraterrestrial, however unlikely).

I don't think anyone here, is suggesting that this is a definitive case for ET (or whatever floats your boat) contact but something was seen, and needs to be investigated. What your basically arguing is that you already know there was nothing anomalous, because these things cant exist, ergo why bother investigating seems like very poor science indeed.

If Jeff and others had not investigated the case how could we come to any conclusions, even if that conclusion was that a balloon was seen?

True skepticism should question a balloon explanation (which clearly does not fit some of the eye witness testimony) as well as more 'exotic' interpretation of the event.
 

ondafritz

Skilled Investigator
Well, lets take one of the Paracast's favorite cases--The Chicago O'Hare UFO.

I would be impressed if 10 different phone cameras in 10 different locations had a shot that showed what was claimed: a big ass saucer in the sky over the airport. If the TV news had driven down during the "claimed" long period and shot video of the thing that the witnesses described, I would be real impressed.

The time frame claimed for this case make all the above very reasonable things that SHOULD have happened. IF THE CASE WAS REAL!

Which it isn't.

Lance
You might want to consider listening to David talk about the work he did on, at least, one of the photos taken at O'Hare. Might give you something to think about. And the fact that no news media showed up? In the 24 hour a day traffic that is O'Hare I would like to point out it could take 20 minutes to drive past one terminal. Getting in there ain't quick either. And this only appeared for no more that 20 minutes I thought.
 


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