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Dr. Michio Kaku : Fukushima : From Fashpoint 05-09-12 : Reactor 4

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Estimated cost 10 trillion

A Green Road - Where Heart Shift Happens: Fukushima Crisis Total Cost Up To $10 TRILLION Dollars

According to one Tokyo professor, the total cost may be 10 Trillion Dollars, which is the equivalent of the total budget of Japan for the next ten years. The Chernobyl disaster is said by some to have cost approximately 500 Billion Dollars, without adding in costs for the new sarcophogus. How did the professor arrive at the 10 Trillion number?
Source: ​

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The world bank will have to bail them out, and for so many reasons.

Suddenly nuclear generated electricity is not so "cheap" or green anymore
 
mike said:
Estimated cost 10 trillion
A Green Road - Where Heart Shift Happens: Fukushima Crisis Total Cost Up To $10 TRILLION Dollars
The world bank will have to bail them out, and for so many reasons.
Suddenly nuclear generated electricity is not so "cheap" or green anymore
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It is difficult for me to see how such risk could make sense in a business model. The justification for nuclear power plants is that they are cost effective, but how can that be true in the face of the cost of those risks made real in front of us at places like Fukushima and Chernobyl?

People are always looking for something to unify the world. Reagan wondered if an alien threat wouldn't unite peoples and governments under a common banner. Why not this threat we have manufactured for ourselves? The nature of this thing is such that the average citizen is powerless in the face of it. This requires expertise and resources beyond the reach of anything but national governments to deal with, if that.
 
trained i know you will probably disagree but i doubt the UN will get involved. they will be very happy to see millions die.
 
mike said:
A Green Road - Where Heart Shift Happens: 75% US Nuclear Plants Leaking Toxic Tritium Radiation Into Drinking Water Supply
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Wow that's scary, especially for me since I live about 5 miles from a nuclear power plant. Strangely enough, Wikipedia has this to say about my county: Scorecard ranks Lake County among the worst 10% of counties in the U.S. in terms of cancer risk, developmental and reproductive toxins, and other categories as well; this is comparable with most major cities and densely populated areas.

Weird.
 
trainedobserver said:
It is difficult for me to see how such risk could make sense in a business model. The justification for nuclear power plants is that they are cost effective, but how can that be true in the face of the cost of those risks made real in front of us at places like Fukushima and Chernobyl?

People are always looking for something to unify the world. Reagan wondered if an alien threat wouldn't unite peoples and governments under a common banner. Why not this threat we have manufactured for ourselves? The nature of this thing is such that the average citizen is powerless in the face of it. This requires expertise and resources beyond the reach of anything but national governments to deal with, if that.
Click to expand...

I was reading some of the comments at another site today, and someone raised the issue of cascade effect again.
If this disaster ends up wiping out large chunks of global population and economys, then there wont be the resources to decommission the hundreds of other plants still running, its another good case for shutting these things down now
 
Akio Matsumura talks about nuclear power plants, spent fuel pools, and the trouble with Reactor 4 at Fukushima. 50% of Japan landmass could be lost to contamination from Reactor 4 fuel pool alone if it fails.

 
The following articles render the "beyond safe" argument, beyond absurd


Aging Nukes: A four-part investigative series by Jeff Donn


When commercial nuclear power plants were being built in the United States, mostly in the 1960s and 1970s, the industry and government experts said they were designed to last 40 years. Now those plants are older than their original life span, many are being relicensed for another 20 years, and there’s talk of operating them for as long as 100 years. All that even though the nation’s nuclear power reactors are already showing signs of their age, as AP national writer Jeff Donn revealed in an extraordinary four-part series.

Pipes are rusting -- and leaking. Critical valves are leaking -- and failing. Vessel walls are growing brittle. And all the while, the number of people living around the 65 plant sites has been growing – in many cases, far more than ever envisioned.

Donn’s reporting showed that regulators had allowed plants to stay open by relaxing standards. His research also revealed an uncomfortable coziness between the Nuclear Regulatory Commission’s regulators and the nuclear power industry.

The series had a profound impact. The stories ran on more than 85 front pages, played prominently on leading websites, and generated thousands of social networking shares and tweets. It also set off a raft of newspaper editorials and a few government investigations. The series also drew praise from many of the scientists and engineers who understand the issues best.

You can read the entire series here:
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PART-I-Aging-Nukes

PART-II-Aging-Nukes

PART-III-Aging-Nukes

PART-IV-Aging-Nukes


Aging-Nukes
 
Here is some more on San Onofre and their problems. It is worth noting that they are saying none of the radioactive steam escaped the containment, although I don't think they mention it in the following article. The tubes were improperly designed, tested and installed. Only after they failed were any of these things discovered.


"We've never seen that before," he said of the test results. "This is a significant, serious safety issue."
-Elmo Collins, regional administrator for the Region IV office of the NRC.RPT-

Faulty tests blamed for California nuclear plant leak

(Reuters) - Tubes that leaked radioactive steam at a California nuclear power plant [San Onofre], leading to an indefinite shutdown, were not properly tested by the manufacturer prior to installation, nuclear regulators told an overflowing public hearing on Monday.
...
The U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission on Monday pinned the blame for the leak on Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, which it said underestimated the velocity of water and steam surging through the generator by a factor of three or four times in its computerized test of the equipment.
...
 
LEAKS ARE PROLIFIC

Like rust under a car, corrosion has propagated for decades along the hard-to-reach, wet underbellies of the reactors — generally built in a burst of construction during the 1960s and 1970s. As part of an investigation of aging problems at the country's nuclear reactors, the AP uncovered evidence that despite government and industry programs to bring the causes of such leaks under control, breaches have become more frequent and widespread.

There were 38 leaks from underground piping between 2000 and 2009, according to an industry document presented at a tritium conference. Nearly two-thirds of the leaks were reported over the latest five years.

Here are some examples:

—At the three-unit Browns Ferry complex in Alabama, a valve was mistakenly left open in a storage tank during modifications over the years. When the tank was filled in April 2010 about 1,000 gallons of tritium-laden water poured onto the ground at a concentration of 2 million picocuries per liter. In drinking water, that would be 100 times higher than the EPA health standard.

—At the LaSalle site west of Chicago, tritium-laden water was accidentally released from a storage tank in July 2010 at a concentration of 715,000 picocuries per liter — 36 times the EPA standard.

—The year before, 123,000 picocuries per liter were detected in a well near the turbine building at Peach Bottom west of Philadelphia — six times the drinking water standard.

—And in 2008, 7.5 million picocuries per liter leaked from underground piping at Quad Cities in western Illinois — 375 times the EPA limit.

Subsurface water not only rusts underground pipes, it attacks other buried components, including electrical cables that carry signals to control operations. They too have been failing at high rates.

A 2008 NRC staff memo reported industry data showing 83 failed cables between 21 and 30 years of service — but only 40 within their first 10 years of service. Underground cabling set in concrete can be extraordinarily difficult to replace.

Under NRC rules, tiny concentrations of tritium and other contaminants are routinely released in monitored increments from nuclear plants; leaks from corroded pipes are not permitted.

The leaks sometimes go undiscovered for years, the AP found. Many of the pipes or tanks have been patched, and contaminated soil and water have been removed in some places. But leaks are often discovered later from other nearby piping, tanks or vaults. Mistakes and defective material have contributed to some leaks. However, corrosion — from decades of use and deterioration — is the main cause. And, safety engineers say, the rash of leaks suggest nuclear operators are hard put to maintain the decades-old systems.

Over the history of the U.S. industry, more than 400 known radioactive leaks of all kinds of substances have occurred, the activist Union of Concerned Scientists reported in September.

Several notable leaks above the EPA drinking-water limit for tritium happened five or more years ago, and from underground piping: 397,000 picocuries per liter at Tennessee's Watts Bar unit in 2005 — 20 times the EPA standard; four million at the two-reactor Hatch plant in Georgia in 2003 — 200 times the limit; 750,000 at Seabrook in New Hampshire in 1999 — nearly 38 times the standard; and 4.2 million at the three-unit Palo Verde facility in Arizona, in 1993 — 210 times the drinking-water limit.

Many safety experts worry about what the leaks suggest about the condition of miles of piping beneath the reactors. "Any leak is a problem because you have the leak itself — but it also says something about the piping," said Mario V. Bonaca, a former member of the NRC's Advisory Committee on Reactor Safeguards. "Evidently something has to be done."

However, even with the best probes, it is hard to pinpoint partial cracks or damage in skinny pipes or bends. The industry tends to inspect piping when it must be dug up for some other reason. Even when leaks are detected, repairs may be postponed for up to two years with the NRC's blessing.

"You got pipes that have been buried underground for 30 or 40 years, and they've never been inspected, and the NRC is looking the other way," said engineer Paul Blanch, who has worked for the industry and later became a whistleblower. "They could have corrosion all over the place."

Nuclear engineer Bill Corcoran, an industry consultant who has taught NRC personnel how to analyze the cause of accidents, said that since much of the piping is inaccessible and carries cooling water, the worry is if the pipes leak, there could be a meltdown.
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Classic CLG (Combat loss grouping)
Nearly two-thirds of the leaks were reported over the latest five years.
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Sobering thought

If a 50-mile order were ever issued for Indian Point, it would take in about 17.3 million people — 6 percent of all Americans, according to an AP population analysis. That would include parts of New Jersey and Connecticut and all of New York City, except for a chunk of Staten Island.

Such a mass exodus would be an "enormous challenge" — and a historic feat, said Kelly McKinney, New York City's deputy commissioner of preparedness.

"At no time in the history of man," he said, "has anyone tried to move 17 million people in 48 hours."
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DOON! DOON!
(The sound of nuclear disaster)

‘China Syndrome’? Former Japan Official: Underground rumblings heard in Fukushima plant area night of March 14, 2011 — “Caused by melted fuel underground” (VIDEO)

Former NHK news broadcaster Hori Jun interviewed Mr. Matsuda, policy secretary of former Prime Minister Naoto Kan, translation by Fukushima Diary:​
In the night of 3/14/2011, underground rumblings were heard in Fukushima plant area, which was caused by melted fuel underground. (He described the sound as “doon doon”.)​
This is when Yoshida, the former chief of Fukushima stated “I might die here.”, reported to Tepco’s head office that they were going to evacuate all the nuclear workers except for selected members.​
[...]​
 
trainedobserver said:
DOON! DOON!
(The sound of nuclear disaster)

‘China Syndrome’? Former Japan Official: Underground rumblings heard in Fukushima plant area night of March 14, 2011 — “Caused by melted fuel underground” (VIDEO)

Former NHK news broadcaster Hori Jun interviewed Mr. Matsuda, policy secretary of former Prime Minister Naoto Kan, translation by Fukushima Diary:​
In the night of 3/14/2011, underground rumblings were heard in Fukushima plant area, which was caused by melted fuel underground. (He described the sound as “doon doon”.)​

This is when Yoshida, the former chief of Fukushima stated “I might die here.”, reported to Tepco’s head office that they were going to evacuate all the nuclear workers except for selected members.​

[...]​
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I brought up the china syndrome a while back, its a very real scenario, and while a real china syndrome is not possible

The geographic, planet-piercing concept of the China syndrome derives from the misperception that China is the antipode of the United States; to many Americans, it is the “the other side of the world”.[7] [8][2] Moreover, the hypothetical transit of a meltdown product to the other side of the Earth (i.e. China) ignores the fact that the Earth's gravity tends to pull all masses towards its center. Assuming a meltdown product could persist in a mobile molten form for long enough to reach the center of the Earth; gravity would prevent it continuing to the other side.
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It can none the less cause some serious issues here.
If the melted core breach's the earths mantle, we will get a man made volcano and a radioactive one at that.
 
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