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DR KARLA TURNER Ph.D.

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A

ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM

Whittingham
Hi folks,
These are very intresting lectures which I suppose many have already seen but for the new members might enjoy. Open minds make progress and closed one become stagnant,

 
After the "deluge" of the crazy blond pleadian lady this (sane) and yet esoteric experience was much needed. :) Helps to take the "questions" seriously again.
 
Thanks Blowfish. It's sobering to realize some younger people new to this subject don't even know who Karla Turner was. They should.

What a loss she was to this field: a brilliant mind, one of the best abduction researchers ever, a voice of radicalism and sanity in a sea of new-age mush.

RIP Karla.
 
Yeah, Karla Turner...there's a nice interview Greg Bishop made with her available here. Check it out. That woman really seemed to be genuine. It makes me wonder what was really happening to her. Her stories beat even the wildest stuff David Jacobs could ever muster.

But, it's evident that any skeptic could have a field day with her stuff, even though I find it entertaining and likewise love her attitude (little spitfire indeed :p). What worries me is her link with Barbara Bartholic and some other people like Derrel Sims. BB's book is IMHO horrendous. Half of it is stacked with shite how she is so special, beautiful and funny. How she used to model, blah-blah. Really doesn't come off as a serious, devoted and careful researcher. Derrel Sims seems shady too.

Yet again, I just get the feeling that the late Dr. Turner was sincere in her approach, no matter how batty the things sound. Was she deluded or what? There's one Turner story about a DUMB and some guy or woman working there and cleaning up human body remains. The Paracast session with Mark Pilkington puts an interesting perspective to that.

It's also interesting how her stories diverge from the Hopkins/Jacobs camp. I'd like to hear their take on that and the so-called consistency in the abduction narrative.
 
One thing you have to realize in this "field" is the smallness of it. So, if you start to throw people away because they were at the same party or convenction or were on the same radio show you will soon have nobody left. Also, with anything "paranormal" or even "spiritual you will have some who are sincere and some who are charlatans and some who are plain nuts. The United States Marine Corp and the Ku Klux Klan are certainly not the same but they both might salute the same flag. I know that's a bad analogy but I'm just trying to say that when you "research" a subject or especially a paranomal subject you will draw all kinds of folks and agendas to your party. I try to take people as they are and make my judgements on their particular views as oppossed to throwing em out cause somebody else in the field is a nut. Also, I don't think we are dealing with a purely physical experience here. It seems to have a mental or spirtual or even a Jungian slant of some kind.
 
trainedobserver said:
I just looked through the table of contents for Greg's Wake Up Down There!, The Excluded Middle Anthology and went ahead and ordered it. It looks like a great book.
Click to expand...

It IS a great book! :)

Karla became a friend and we talked on the phone regualrly. She led me to lots of stories and ideas.Her daughter wrote me a few years ago and we had a good talk.
 
tyder001 said:
One thing you have to realize in this "field" is the smallness of it. So, if you start to throw people away because they were at the same party or convention or were on the same radio show you will soon have nobody left. Also, with anything "paranormal" or even "spiritual you will have some who are sincere and some who are charlatans and some who are plain nuts. The United States Marine Corp and the Ku Klux Klan are certainly not the same but they both might salute the same flag. I know that's a bad analogy but I'm just trying to say that when you "research" a subject or especially a paranormal subject you will draw all kinds of folks and agendas to your party. I try to take people as they are and make my judgments on their particular views as opposed to throwing em out cause somebody else in the field is a nut. Also, I don't think we are dealing with a purely physical experience here. It seems to have a mental or spiritual or even a Jungian slant of some kind.
Click to expand...

No, I'm not throwing Karla Turner away or something like it. On the contrary, I find her stories intriguing and something about her seems to be very genuine - I don't think that she was delivering such stuff just to get some attention/create a following/make a buck, if the last is even possible. It seems to me that she was really convinced that she was speaking the truth and that all the experiences she reported were real. So, her motive seemed to be all right - she was claiming extraordinary things happening and was apparently trying to let the world know and break the enigma. The poor woman is long gone but her stuff is available on the net for free and for everyone to read or listen and evaluate. There's no buy my book/buy a t-shirt/wild promises that never deliver shite attached...

On the other hand, it's not like this is a case of Rich Dolan spotted at a Camelot conference. She claimed that Sims was her friend and also drew a lot of stuff from Barbara Bartholic. Sims seems shady to me and I already mentioned what's the vibe I get from BB. I would really appreciate if any of you guys could chime in about Sims and Bartholic with opinions and info, maybe I'm wrong.
But, if they are both shady characters and Karla Turner was close to them - then it makes me wonder the following: if her bullshit meter didn't manage to detect those two, what else did she miss? The Pilkington stuff and the supposed origins of the whole Reptilian story really makes me wonder if she was under the influence of all that...

So, the old question is still here - what is really happening, if anything is happening? I think that the stuff from Taken is all from conscious recall and no hypnosis, which is nifty for bypassing all the hypnosis-is-a-no-no guys. But still, maybe KT was taken for a ride or made one of her own...

@trainedobserver: That's a great question, it would be very interesting to get the answer to that. I didn't even know she had a daughter, I don't remember that from Into the Fringe. I just remember the son...
 
Fair enough points and well taken. However, I don't actually "know" any of the folks you mention. By that I mean I have not "studied" their stuff. Once anybody says "reptillian" I tend to tune em out. Still, I have known some friends in my time who had some real insight and made some very valid spiritual points. At the same time I found their particular "view" of the world to be "off" in many ways to mine. So, all I'm saying is I know some very old tried and true "evangelical" and "skeptical" tricks. What? How can you compare em? Well, :) having been in the former camp and having known some of the later camp I find they both use the same "debunking" tactic. First you question the theology (if you are evangelical) or the honesty (if you are skeptic) then you lump em in with the very worst of the worst and you take quotes that are quite silly and say "that is what they agree with." To be honest wheather it be Derrel Sims or Jaques Vallee or anybody else there are things they belive that are particular to their expereince in life. I'm not a "seeker" of guru's be it the flavor of the month scientist (Dr. Kaku) or the Guru of the year (Ramtha, Shirley Mcclain, ect.) I find that we should take people as who "they" are and make up our own minds. That said I have bought books and listened to Mitchu Kaku (scuse muh spellin) and find him to be a brilliant man. Still, I don't agree with all he says (but I'd hate to try and debate pyscics with him) :) He "might" win that one. :) I find Shoiley M to be a little out there at times. But, and it's a big BUT she is one of the folks that was a catalyst in my search for spritual truth back in the early 80's. So, I guess all I'm saying is "Don't send any of em your hard earned dough" Don't turn off your bullshit meter. But, don't dismiss everything a person has expereicened out of hand as silly or none sense just because somebody else can come up with a silly quote or show that they once bumped into Steven Greer in an airport. :)

My favorite author once said (and he can be out there himself with his love of all things left politcally) Quoting another author in the preface to Bag of Bones: No matter how well I write a character. No matter how "interesting" and brave or good or evil. Compared to the most simple real live human that ever walked the earth. My characters are just a "bag of bones." :)
 
Elendil said:
I would really appreciate if any of you guys could chime in about Sims and Bartholic with opinions and info, maybe I'm wrong.
Click to expand...

No, I don't think you are. I have the same misgivings and questions about KT, BB and DS. At the same time, KTs entire family appears to have experienced and witnessed many of these things directly. The whole alien abduction subject is extremely abstract to those of us who haven't some experience with whatever it actually is. I personally have a real hard time with it. I acknowledge that people are experiencing something strange and life changing, I just can't easily accept the various interpretations for it that are offered. I think part of that is an overwhelming sense of "unreality" that hangs on the whole subject. And there is that whole Lovecraftian sense of cosmic doom thing that is hard to shake too.
 
trainedobserver said:
Is her family still having strange experiences?
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Her husband was for awhile I believe. I don't know if they continued for many years past Karla's death. Her daughter didn't mention anything.

I don't know anything about Bartolic's reputation. Sims I've had some interaction with, and he seemed like a slimy character. When Karla introduced us, he seemed credulous hut harmless. My opinion changed with subsequnt interactions.

This article from 1996 only confirmed my suspicions.
 
What's a 'DUMB?'

---------- Post added at 08:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:07 PM ----------

Barbara Bartholic is not some shady character. I know her, have spent time with her. She is a sincere and dedicated investigator working in an area most are afraid to touch. She began her work long before ninety percent of those looking at the high strangeness cases were in print. Without a trail of research or methodology to rely on, she, along with Candy Turner fearlessly pursued high strangeness and more typical abduction cases, revealing the endless layers of confusing and contradictory information to the benefit of all trying to fathom the the deceptiveness of whatever is at work creating the havoc in experiencers' lives. It ain't for the faint of heart or for those looking to confirm their biases. They didn't attempt to foist tidy conclusions, only to reveal the range of reported experiences they explored to a field busy drawing way premature conclusions about what was going on. In person, she is a lady to the core and it is my privilege to have spent time with her. She never 'profitted' from her work and sacrificed alot to be available when called upon. I wish we had more individuals of her integrity and perceptiveness in the field today.
 
D.U.M.B. = Deep Underground Military Base

What about James Bartley? There is a video series of a presentation he gave on MILABs on YouTube where he is listed as having worked with BB, KT, and a Eve Lorgen.

Listening to this Bartley talk fellow I can't help but think he is talking about brain damaged or schizophrenic mental patients rather than victims of "reptilian hybrids" and so forth. While there is a tremendous amount of evidence suggesting prosaic and natural explanations for the symptoms he describes where is the evidence for "reptilian-human hybrids" (forget the incredible biological impossibility of such a thing)? Unexplained scratches? Funny scars? Bizarre dreams or visions of drug addicts? I don't think that is conclusive evidence of anything. This is from a UFO conference in Roswell. I think the guy introducing him is from the Christian based "Alien Resistance" organization for what that is worth.
 
@tyder001:

No, I'm not dismissing KT or anything she might have experienced as silly. I even won't tune someone out when I hear the word "Reptile", and I don't mean the Mortal Kombat character ;). Who knows, maybe this GD world is totally weirder than we think.

But, that being said - I think that we can all honestly say that KT's story is very unbelievable and that it's very hard to take it as a given fact. That's a problem I also have with KT - for her there was no question to whether the abductions were really happening as reported and if anything was *really* happening. Abductions are a fact, period. Let's talk about what do the entities really want. Okay, if the first level is totally true, I find her stories and conclusions very interesting. But, I'm not totally sold on the abductions. I'm still on lvl 0. I find it extremely interesting but I'm still digging for answers. And while I'm digging - I like to check the approach, motive and the sources.

Thanks to bbriges for some info on Bartholic. But I still can't get that book out of my head. But okay, let's say that she is genuine, just as I think KT was genuine. That is nifty, but it doesn't make them right. IMHO Jacobs is also genuine. What the hell could a history professor gain in publicly claiming the stuff he comes up with? And when you read his response to Emma Woods it seems obvious that the guy really believes that Hybrids are walking amongst us, he's not just pushing a story to make a buck or get some luv out of a dozen of ATSers at the convention. It still doesn't make him right and we're still deep in the gray area regarding abductions. There are too many questions and a lot of stuff is dubious...

God, I hope I don't sound like a debunker. I'd really like to see a new abduction round table episode with some questions aimed at Hopkins and Jacobs both...

And I don't know if youz guys ever checked Eve Lorgen's website. I stumbled onto that a while ago and, let's be frank - the woman annoys me immensely. I find it totally preposterous to charge telephone consulting (or any consulting) to supposed abductees...
 
Elendil said:
@tyder001:

No, I'm not dismissing KT or anything she might have experienced as silly. I even won't tune someone out when I hear the word "Reptile", and I don't mean the Mortal Kombat character ;). Who knows, maybe this GD world is totally weirder than we think.

But, that being said - I think that we can all honestly say that KT's story is very unbelievable and that it's very hard to take it as a given fact. That's a problem I also have with KT - for her there was no question to whether the abductions were really happening as reported and if anything was *really* happening. Abductions are a fact, period. Let's talk about what do the entities really want. Okay, if the first level is totally true, I find her stories and conclusions very interesting. But, I'm not totally sold on the abductions. I'm still on lvl 0. I find it extremely interesting but I'm still digging for answers. And while I'm digging - I like to check the approach, motive and the sources.

Thanks to bbriges for some info on Bartholic. But I still can't get that book out of my head. But okay, let's say that she is genuine, just as I think KT was genuine. That is nifty, but it doesn't make them right. IMHO Jacobs is also genuine. What the hell could a history professor gain in publicly claiming the stuff he comes up with? And when you read his response to Emma Woods it seems obvious that the guy really believes that Hybrids are walking amongst us, he's not just pushing a story to make a buck or get some luv out of a dozen of ATSers at the convention. It still doesn't make him right and we're still deep in the gray area regarding abductions. There are too many questions and a lot of stuff is dubious...

God, I hope I don't sound like a debunker. I'd really like to see a new abduction round table episode with some questions aimed at Hopkins and Jacobs both...

And I don't know if youz guys ever checked Eve Lorgen's website. I stumbled onto that a while ago and, let's be frank - the woman annoys me immensely. I find it totally preposterous to charge telephone consulting (or any consulting) to supposed abductees...
Click to expand...

I have to say 'Dr' Karla Turner books are quite interesting and I agree with some of your points regards so called experts in the abductees field who have seek fame and so called fortune lets face it folks they must be making something ? However, some excellent researchers out there including the late 'Dr' Karla Turner and Gene, Dr Vallee, John Keel , Greg Bishop and Rich at least took a serious examination of the strange awareness which has impacted many lives. In addition , not all of the abductees seek fame and fortune rather try to understand the complexity of the encounter/abduction among intellectual debates . Elendil, have you experience any strange awareness?
 
Nah, none. Thank God for that, because if only a handful of such reports is true and is handing out things right as they are - who needs that kind of "experience" on top of everything in this sick world.

And yes, I agree that most of the abductees are not coming up with that for any fame or fortune. Is there even any chance for fortune here? Maybe Jim Sparks gets some money for speaking at conventions and can afford to be without a job because of it? Guess that would be enough for some. Strieber looks and acts like a fruity, but he was already a best-selling author. Hopkins was supposedly at least a semi-noted artist and Jacobs a tenured professor. I guess that both had their finances in order before embarking on the abduction quest for hidden gold. How much could they make from the books? I think Missing Time or Intruders were best-sellers, but I don't know about Secret Life or The Threat. Has anyone ever looked into that - how much can you financially gain in this field?

And fame is even more questionable. You can only score point with the loons, I'd say. Everyone else will look at you as a total wacko. That's one of the things that make hard for me to dismiss Jacobs as a fraud. He may be wrong about everything, but it really seems to me he totally believes the stuff he's bringing to the table. Not to mention Mack, I loved the Should Harvard beam him up? newspaper title in Touched. Why would those guy even touch this unless they believe it? But then again, none of that makes them right. And maybe they have some weird reason for presenting things the way they do, maybe ego or something or just the will to believe...
 
I have to agree hypnotics is not the way to go rather more relax environment first with aid of music to offer some form of mediation (which the individual performs by themselves prior to interview) towards calming the individuals which these events can be pretty scary affairs and let them speak rather leading questions. Such as used for PTSD in some case.

2. Strong investigation guidelines which are tailored towards this strange awareness which seems to have no boundaries or predetermined ideologies in its habit except night events might be more common .

3. Furthermore, why don't proven track record former army remote viewers could be called in to asses and examine the locations of the events as last resort but keep separate from the individuals and correlate the both data for patterns.

4. Then, use 'police' recommendation of working Psychic & Scientist to examine clothing, soils samples etc during separate investigation and correlate with the other data to see if patterns exist.

5. Then let an excellent researcher examine the results who has proven track record of 'credibility' outside the field and in it? Also a 'wealthy supporter or more:)' who seeks to share all the data with the public while having access for books, movies etc and not control by other institutions in order to share with humanity. Furthermore, some of these wealthy individual surely have had experience themselves.:)

Peace,
BF
 
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