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Dec 7 Show

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M

mike

Paranormal Adept
as always i enjoyed listening to the viewpoints expressed

and yes we do care, fresh lemon juice and unpasturised honey......

i hope its just a cold.

just as an aside while listening i had the phrase "very tight concentric circles" go thru my head. on a whim i keyed this into a search engine and found this
http://observers.org/reports/2004.03.05.html

make of it what you will lol
 
One of your best shows! I might have to listen to it again because there were so many good points made. I thought his research on mermaids was very thought provoking.

His not too complimentary comment about Vallee and not thinking there is a huge government coverup both surprised me.

I hope you guys have him on again and I hope your voice is getting better Gene!
 
Decent show. Dont get what all the fawning over him is about though, and it definitely wasnt the best show ever.

I disagree about the Cryptoterrestrial theory. He claims it would be impossible for them to go unnoticed.... but what about deep under-water bases? By completely discounting this theory hes also saying that he things all of Tim Goods work on alien base research is for nil. IMO if secret alien bases can exist then also can secret non-human civilisations on this planet.
 
Well, Jerome Clark is one of the handful of people whose opinion on the subject of UFOs would be inclined to seriously consider (due to study of CUFOS archives, editing IUR, authoring several books etc).

As I stated in an earlier post, I do like his distinction between "event phenomenon" (e.g. R-V and trace case UFO events) and "experience phenomenon".

I guess some will be disappointed in listening to this podcast, in that Jerry Clark offers no "answers" (contrary to e.g. Stanton Friedman who seems to offer "answers" to everything: nuts-n-bolts craft, propelled via MHD, hot-potato effect for high G's, alien home world etc - most of which incidentally I don't agree with)

I think JC is right that the solution to the anomalies is probably in the hands of physicists and not phychologists.

And UFO occupants could very well be having bases underwater.
 
I'm just halfway through, the guest is obviously much better than last week!

Regarding the existence of unknown beings on our planet, I think it's possible to occupy the same physical space as us and not be observable, perhaps in a different 'dimension' or partly in one dimension and another and so on... Underwater bases also seem plausible to me, I think the guest gives humans more credit for being able to track the existence of other beings in the middle of the ocean than we deserve.


I can see why he uses the language he does when describing abductions because of the seemingly deceptive nature of the accounts and the way they seem to take place just outside our reality, although I tend to think some of the abduction stuff is literal and not some completely subjective interaction. I do tend to think abductions often take place outside our dimension as well, and perhaps don't deal with our physical bodies in some instances.

I look forward to the rest of the show and his take on Vallee!

The more I've gotten into this topic the more I really like Vallee's analogy of peeling back the various layers of an onion to describe it. I think it's possible that is the nature of reality, you keep pulling back layers to get to a more real reality until you get to ............... the nothingness of oneness....... OMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm :)
 
Gareth said:
Decent show. Dont get what all the fawning over him is about though, and it definitely wasnt the best show ever.

I disagree about the Cryptoterrestrial theory. He claims it would be impossible for them to go unnoticed.... but what about deep under-water bases? By completely discounting this theory hes also saying that he things all of Tim Goods work on alien base research is for nil. IMO if secret alien bases can exist then also can secret non-human civilisations on this planet.
Click to expand...


I am kind of on your wavelength here Gareth. Yes, the show had some thought provokeing comments from both the guest and the hosts at times, but some of the logic given by jerome clark didnt seem realistic for me at least, for some of the theorys when considering what this phenomen could be.

The Cryptoterrestial theory is too easily dismissed by ufologists on all sides of the coin.I cant understand why ufologists find it hard to rationalise the existence of something unknown on our planet.The phenomen is occuring on this planet, so i would never dismiss the Cryptoterestial theory fully.

Entitys liveing amongest us those not mean they are hideing in the oceans or underground. I was thinking not more than a couple of days ago about this theory. Are we thinking too big? maybe this a small group of entitys? say 100 but very advanced and finally would it be hard to hide out somewhere on this planet. Dont forget the group is small!!! maybe they have 10 ships not hundreds?
"O EVIDENCE" of something existing doesnt mean it doesnt exist at all. Going down that logic makes us no better than the people on this planet who dont believe in ufos or there existence.

It just a theory but no theory can be dismissed i dont care what way you focus on this subject dismissing one theory for another is more based on your opinion of what you think is correct.

Jerome is probably correct no real life creatures of considerable remain undiscovered but i think, small animals in the range of size like a snake or deer may remain hidden somewhere in the vast areas of sea and jungle.

Crossover into our world theory Is something i think i have seen.The speed up of things that occur are both very weird and frightening.

Is the brain causeing this things to appear is a intrigueing thought, but does that suggest your mental state is not fully sane, but somehow most of the day you feel sane, and of sound mind. Maybe, certain individuals are more prone to seeing stuff than others, because our brains are similar? Alot of people in the ufo field are a little bit wacky not crazy or mad just wacky does that suggest something similar in our brain chemistry.

Anyway jerome's encounter with a shadow was very intrigueing.

I think the Roswell case is so widely talked about mainly because it almost plays out like a movie. Cover up, bodies, craft.To suggest some group that hides this secret may not exist in my mind is wrong. Jerome, i think has been somewhat been influenced by his cousins theory on the ufo secrecy.

To say this subject is not being looked at by officials does not wash with me. The military are seeing this ships appear in our skies all the time, and maybe even landing or even takeing citizens from there homes, if true. So to suggest the military or even some group hidden deep in the black project arena wouldnt be looking at this subject doesnt seem logic to me.

I am with stan freidman on this theory. A cosmic watergate is probably happening?.
 
Really enjoyed the show today, right up there with other fave's like Bernard Haisch.

I was aware that the brain has two hemispheres, and that they are connected by a structure called the "Corpus Callosum". Regarding that particular part of our anatomy.
I just wanted to mention that sometimes when other treatments have failed, this nerve bundle is actually cut to relieve acute epilepsy.

A friend of mine has suffered greatly with this disorder and his symptoms include hallucinations, obviously grand mal seizures and other disturbing effects.
I have been present when he has been having some of these hallucinations, and aside from him being irritated by the same guy off to his right time and time again,
he would usually get through the day without having anything more drastic happen.

The reason I mention this, is because he and his partner and their child have had many experiences with what I would call "Shadow people" during the night.
Not just individually but sometimes together, which adds credibility.
On one occasion something moved across the bed to cross the room, when he and his partner were in it.
Real creepy stuff and while all this kind of thing was going on, I couldn't help but think that they were under threat from something malevolent.

Sorry to get all "woo woo" on you, believe me I'm so far away from that way of thinking I would bore you.

They have in the six years i've known them, had such an incredibly tough time with
things like Cancer, Epilsepsy, multiple miscarriages, losing sight in one eye and as can be appreciated the knock on effects on the world of work were terrible.
In short probably the unluckiest guy I have ever known.

Yet he is one of the most cheerful and likeable people one could ever meet. Who even during his worst periods managed to cope and give a smile.
And seems now to be on the mend and is at last a proud father again with a lovely baby boy.

This is not my story, and I have encouraged him to come on here and tell of some of his experiences. I know you would find it interesting but it's his call.

Getting back to the brain thing though.

I think it truly amazing that a procedure like chopping the brain in two, actually helps
some people, that really is paranormal.

Geat show

Thanks,

Mark
 
Gareth said:
Decent show. Dont get what all the fawning over him is about though, and it definitely wasnt the best show ever.

I disagree about the Cryptoterrestrial theory. He claims it would be impossible for them to go unnoticed.... but what about deep under-water bases? By completely discounting this theory hes also saying that he things all of Tim Goods work on alien base research is for nil. IMO if secret alien bases can exist then also can secret non-human civilisations on this planet.
Click to expand...


That's a stretch to me since it's too risky of detection. These being don't seem to need a base here. Their own craft or other bodies in the solar system would be more ideal. They don't seem to have to be near us to do what they do.

I haven't listened to the episode yet, but anything that made an under water base, can fly, and be on land, would have left traces in all those mediums. This might be what he's referring too. I'll listen to the show in a few days though and be corrected if wrong hopefully.

Jerome has a level head (which is rare), is why he is often liked.
 
couldnt agree more, he did seem very inflexible where some ideas are concerned, but i dont mind that from a guest to be honest.

no single guest is going to have the answers, for me the exercise is taking the myriad points of view and cherry picking the bits that "feel right" to me.

the magic seems to be neither in the guests or the hosts, but rather some of the spontanious locations the conversation winds up.

the degree to which a guest holds to his/her ideas tells me something, but the ideas themselves are what i come here for.

so yes he did seem very concrete in some of his theorys, but in the context of this cast/forum i think thats ok because it gets noticed it gets mentioned and ultimatly is properly factored into the equation.
 
mike said:
couldnt agree more, he did seem very inflexible where some ideas are concerned, but i dont mind that from a guest to be honest.

no single guest is going to have the answers, for me the exercise is taking the myriad points of view and cherry picking the bits that "feel right" to me.

the magic seems to be neither in the guests or the hosts, but rather some of the spontanious locations the conversation winds up.

the degree to which a guest holds to his/her ideas tells me something, but the ideas themselves are what i come here for.

so yes he did seem very concrete in some of his theorys, but in the context of this cast/forum i think thats ok because it gets noticed it gets mentioned and ultimatly is properly factored into the equation.
Click to expand...

Concrete is great when the alternative is mud. Jerome usually doesn't jump to conclusions. He often sits on evidence, or waits for it before joining in on whatever new fancy there is. Some of us have faced it, there's more theory than evidence in these matters and no rush needed to go beyond evidence. There's enough people doing that. So, someone not being convinced, doesn't mean they are set in their ways. Could mean they aren't impressed with the available evidence, or not aware of it. Or, maybe they're right and it's the other people who disagree who are set in their ways. Not wanting to give up their pet theories etc......
 
just a thought or two:

the brain communicates within itself using minute electrical charges.
we could interrupt those electrical charges using another electrical charge - something similar is done via an implant for some forms of epilepsy and parkinson's to test where to perform surgery to alleviate shaking or seizures.

what if whatever is coming along and visiting us has the capability to interrupt certain wavelengths of biological electricity to render them (the visitors) unseen and undetected by humans?
we have achieved basic cloaking for certain aircraft to make them undetectable by radar, why cannot the human brain, which is basically a machine, albeit biologically formed, be made incapable of recognizing or detecting these objects?
As for hallucinations induced because of epileptic seizures, etc., what if the seizure interrupts the blocking of such visions and allows a person to see clearly that which most of us are prevented from seeing?
Makes you wonder about those folks running around with tinfoil and stainless steel colanders on their heads, don't it?:D
Anyway, just a thought or two, and I hope it was decipherable, I never manage to express what I think very well.
 
Did he just anonymously burn Mac Tonnies like an unrepentant witch? Not that I'm a big fan of the CTH but to say there's just "no way, it's not possible" smacks of the kind of arrogance that tends to sandbag most discussions in this arena. He seems pretty resolute in his assertion that these are human-driven phenomena.

I dunno. Better show than last week (although really, how could it not be?) but not one of the best. I think the rest of you guys must still be shell-shocked from last week's trip to whacky land!
 
dusty said:
Really enjoyed the show today, right up there with other fave's like Bernard Haisch.

I was aware that the brain has two hemispheres, and that they are connected by a structure called the "Corpus Callosum". Regarding that particular part of our anatomy.
I just wanted to mention that sometimes when other treatments have failed, this nerve bundle is actually cut to relieve acute epilepsy.

A friend of mine has suffered greatly with this disorder and his symptoms include hallucinations, obviously grand mal seizures and other disturbing effects.
I have been present when he has been having some of these hallucinations, and aside from him being irritated by the same guy off to his right time and time again,
he would usually get through the day without having anything more drastic happen.

The reason I mention this, is because he and his partner and their child have had many experiences with what I would call "Shadow people" during the night.
Not just individually but sometimes together, which adds credibility.
On one occasion something moved across the bed to cross the room, when he and his partner were in it.
Real creepy stuff and while all this kind of thing was going on, I couldn't help but think that they were under threat from something malevolent.

Sorry to get all "woo woo" on you, believe me I'm so far away from that way of thinking I would bore you.

They have in the six years i've known them, had such an incredibly tough time with
things like Cancer, Epilsepsy, multiple miscarriages, losing sight in one eye and as can be appreciated the knock on effects on the world of work were terrible.
In short probably the unluckiest guy I have ever known.

Yet he is one of the most cheerful and likeable people one could ever meet. Who even during his worst periods managed to cope and give a smile.
And seems now to be on the mend and is at last a proud father again with a lovely baby boy.

This is not my story, and I have encouraged him to come on here and tell of some of his experiences. I know you would find it interesting but it's his call.

Getting back to the brain thing though.

I think it truly amazing that a procedure like chopping the brain in two, actually helps
some people, that really is paranormal.

Geat show

Thanks,

Mark
Click to expand...

Mark,

I was surprised to hear that the two separate brains were news to David, too. Actually, "they" say that we have four brains, which is one of the things that separate us from our distant ancestors. I've always found the brain fascinating, particularly the new advances that are being made in science and medicine regarding it.

I'm really sorry to hear about your unlucky friend.

I think his experiences would be welcome here on the board, and I for one would like to hear more. Perhaps he'd agree to let you post them, with a pseudonym instead of his real name?
 
Regarding the whole "event" vs "experience" theory I would be interested to hear Jerome's take on abduction experiences (an experience) that tie in with UFO sightings (events). I find his ideas credible for the most part but I dont think he delved into the arena of mixed event/experience encounters.
 
Gareth said:
Regarding the whole "event" vs "experience" theory I would be interested to hear Jerome's take on abduction experiences (an experience) that tie in with UFO sightings (events). I find his ideas credible for the most part but I dont think he delved into the arena of mixed event/experience encounters.
Click to expand...


I have a quote which addresses the issue, unfortunately it's from around 92. I could only speak about how Jerome used to be. I still haven't listened to the show yet. Gene, do your shows on Thrs so people are on my page:)
 
CapnG said:
Did he just anonymously burn Mac Tonnies like an unrepentant witch? Not that I'm a big fan of the CTH but to say there's just "no way, it's not possible" smacks of the kind of arrogance that tends to sandbag most discussions in this arena. He seems pretty resolute in his assertion that these are human-driven phenomena.
Click to expand...

That's my opinion on this show also. I actually really like this guy, but for someone who claims to aspire to objectivity, he does make ALOT of absolute statements.

The research from a crashed saucer "cannot possibly" be covered up? How could one make an absolute statement from an event so unique and bizarre? There is almost no analogous existing example which one could compare it to.

He also brings up two categories of phenomena, the ones that are physically "real" (ie, interplanetary visitors) and those that are experience-based but not real in the same way.

He speaks of these phenomena as mutually exclusive, but there's no reason to assume that. If the experience-based events take place in something akin to another dimension, then it's surely possible that beings can transition from that other dimension, which isn't quite "real" from our perspective, to this one that we are familiar with.

This scenario actually makes more sense to me from an "occam's razor" point of view. Beings moving from an "unreal" dimension to ours makes more sense than the idea that there are two crazy and bizarre categories of phenomena taking place on earth which are similar but actually have no relation to each other.

It's sometimes frustrating to see people lose that larger perspective to recognize that they're generally in the same position as everyone else. No matter how much one knows, there are things above his understanding that appear impossible, and yet contradict his understanding of what is possible.

But overall I like the show and I like the guy, he's intelligent and well-researched. Those are two of the most important criteria, and I would like to see him return in the future.
 
Just for the record, I completely agree with all of you that Mr. Clark made some absolute statements that I personally disagree with - I suspect that there are indeed large creatures, some mammals, and some really wild undersea life that we've not yet discovered, Wilson was NOT just talking about insects - but overall, I deeply respect his work on the UFO Encyclopedia, and in comparison with some of the recent guests, his intelligence was a breath of fresh air.

dB
 
Good show with a level-headed guest who does not let his imagination run away with him. That he does not subscribe to the usual popular conspiracy theories is to his credit. He's also not insisting on a single hypothesis.

Thanks for the show.
 
One of your best guys, you must have this guy on again .
Hope the cold gets better there seems to be a lot around at the moment.
djf.8)
 
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