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David's revelation of an up close encounter

Has Biedny ever had anything other than anecdotal evidence for ANY of his supposed experiences? His brother, a friend or two... ?

He's laughing his ass off at the credulity of you folks here, don't you see this Jeezus H.

"Revelation". Get over yourselves.
See, this post of yours might have charged the emotion. You seemed puzzled by your own creation.

And for the recorded. I am one of the folks here. I have not concluded David saw aliens or their craft. I don't know what to make of his case. It's a maybe to me. I have not encountered evidence to think he's full of shit in this regard however. Therefore, I don't conclude it. You seemingly have, and unless I've missed it, provided no evidence or logical argument for that conclusion, or theory. Because someone can lie, doesn't mean they have.
 
This appearance of existing things however is illusory and arbitrary. No matter how closely you observe an object, whatever that object is, you cannot precisely define it's boundary. When you look closely enough, down to the level of the atom and beyond, it becomes impossible to distinguish the actual physical beginning or end of any object or any thing. The keyboard has a definite boundary to our limited perception of it, but when you look close enough you'll see that there's no real boundary between it's edge and the surrounding air. This goes for everything around us, even ourselves. A direct consequence of this is the simple fact of the interconnected nature of everything, nothing truly has a clearly defined beginning or end. With this in mind, when we observe objects around us, we can start to make some interesting observations, such as that nothing has inherent existence, meaning that no thing can exist independently of everything else, since for a thing to exist it has to have at least another thing for it to be relative to to give it identity, for instance an observer to consciously make the observation. We can also say that no particular thing exists in an absolute sense, but only the appearance of existence as it is presented to us. Things around us, you and me, exist in a practical sense, but not in an ultimate, absolute sense due to the arbirary nature of their nonexistant boundaries.

As far as the criticisms of my posts go and my perceived attacks on Biedny, fair enough, I'm guilty as charged. But what is it I'm being charged with? Is it the manner of the attack, and not the content? How non-sceptical do you have to be not to ask some pertinent questions, like "where's the proof"? If you all ask that of everyone else except David, who makes equally extreme statements, don't be surprised when some asshole like me comes along once in a while and asks him for you.

Using the argument of the illusionary nature of existence to challenge the validity of David's experience is probably the most ridiculous rationalizations I've ever seen.

Your pseudo intellectualism is truly a thing to behold.

You've challenged David's experience even when he hasn't even told his story. Incredible.

I think you are a manifestation of David's Id, conjured up to prove why he needs to keep his mouth shut.
 
Exactly what stillborn said. I havent seen what David said he saw. I wasnt there when he saw what he said he saw. So I (or anyone else not present) can never truly know 100% what happened.

But what we can do is evaluate the source and decide whether or not that source is trustworthy. Then decide if the source believes they saw what they said they saw. Then once you have established a) trust of the source, & b) that the source believes they saw what they said they saw, you can - without absolutely concluding - internally integrate that experience as something like "holy shit, its highly possible that this actually happened - what does this mean for my world view?".

Dont you see?

Its not like were suddenly all thinking "OMG there are totally aliens here!". But we can play little thought experiment games based on the assumption that what the source says happened actually did happen. All the while knowing in the back of your head that without seeing something yourself you can never be 100% sure.

Think I said it in another post, but dude is trying to give us a solution to a problem that doesnt exist. Really annoying.
 
rob sounds like someone that read his first new-age psuedo-science book moments before jumping on the forum. You've got all the cliche elements going, you're a real scientist!
 
Astroboy, I explicitly stated that this had nothing directly to do with Biedny's claims. My words: "I'm not sure of it's relevance here, and I'm not making any argument from that perspective that has any direct consequence to your claims".

Gareth, doesn't what you said about no proof of any paranormal event kind of speak for itself? Think about the religion/Disclosure comparison.
 
No, not really.

Religion is trying to tell people how to live. Using David as an example again - he tells a story of something that he said he saw. And quite frankly, I believe him. But he doesnt give a fuck whether anyone believes him or not.

Nothing to do with religion. There are religious aspects that come into the paranormal with some people and other areas... but you wont find that sort of stuff 'round here.
 
Astroboy, I explicitly stated that this had nothing directly to do with Biedny's claims. My words: "I'm not sure of it's relevance here, and I'm not making any argument from that perspective that has any direct consequence to your claims".

Rob, you have short term memory. I stand by my statements.

You said:

...Our individual and collective subjective conscious can never observe an objective reality, since our perceptions are of a limited and finite nature. This is a well known and understood part of the human condition, and points to various underlying truths about ourselves, our consciousness and what we can say about existence...

Why am I saying this? Well, this understanding of ourselves is used to intentionally exploit an awful lot of people...

...What of personal experiences of the type Biedny and others talk about? Well, sure they can be real experiences to them, that doesn't mean that what they're experiencing is real and, again, can't be explained without insisting on the paranormal. All that's needed is to take a distanced view, look upon the 'phenomenon' from a logical and non-emotive outside perspective and you'll see how easy it is to realise the potential for exploitation of the unconscious and the innocent with a few compelling and wonderful stories about flying discs, captured aliens, back-engineering suppressed extravagant technologies...

This is why I have fundamental problems with the claims of Disclosure, and paranormal claims in general, whoever makes them.

David hasn't told his story, yet you demand proof. Do you consider this critical, objective, or logical thinking?
 
Astroboy, I think you're confusing matters. The direct relevance I was referring to was the explanation for what it means for a thing, any object, to exist. I wasn't making any explicit connection between this and any of David's claims, either past, present or yet to come. This is a seperate subject and sprung out of David's reading of my initial post (which you quote, in part, above). It could be argued, at a push, that there's an indirect and tenous link between the two, and maybe that's what you mean, but that wasn't my intention.

Isn't it a fair assumption to make that if a person has made claims in the past that, to your own mind, present insufficient and/or unconvincing evidence for you to feel confident enough to say that this constitutes any kind of minimal proof, that in all likelyhood any new similar claims should be examined on the basis of 'why should it be any different this time'? It may appear cynical and close-minded to some, but that's the basic definition of the critical approach. I fully understand that the dividing line is the evidence and how it's interpreted by each individual, we all have our own standards based on our own past experience, knowledge and ignorance of an seemingly infininte amount of determining factors that we have no control over that go into what makes us choose what we choose to put our trust in.
 
See, this post of yours might have charged the emotion. You seemed puzzled by your own creation.

Yeah, I'm probably guilty of kicking off the whole emotional aspect to this, mea culpa. I'm not really surprised or puzzled by the reactions, however.
 
The thing about Rob, theHelix, and others like them is that not only do they have a need to be the center of attention by dissing everyone else, they are unaware of boundaries. Rob can't seem to stay on topic. Here we are talking about someone's experiences, and Rob chimes in with (paraphrased), 'The Disclosure Project is just a religion.' in boldface. He may as well have said, 'I don't like tuna fish,' and it would have been equally relevant.

But the odd thing is, he would face very little opposition (if any) about that statement had it stood alone. In fact, had Rob been paying attention to the Paracast forums as a whole, he would have known this subject has recently been discussed and that several of us have likened the Disclosure Project to a Cargo Cult. As usual, Rob overstates the issue as a generality and doesn't bother analyzing it further. the Disclosure project is not a religion in the accepted sense of the term; it is a cult, a baby religion with little traction. There are an incredible number of similarities between the Disclosure Project and Cargo Cults. Greer shining weird lights and playing music in the woods to attract UFOs is like the villagers in Papua, New Guinea building a landing strip in the jungle to await the cargo planes, for example. But Rob doesn't 'do' analyses; he just tries to take on the mantle for himself, not realizing he is a johnny-come-lately to the subject.

Now, Mr. Cool has come into this bar, disrupted a perfectly amiable and calm conversation, diverted the topic to one of his own choosing, and insulted the patrons and the bartender. The only question I have is,

Why is this jerk still here?
 
Schuyler, since the thread topic was dealing with an issue that was brought up on the Bassett Disclosure episode, what I said was hardly out of place.

That's a fair criticism to say that I didn't refer to other previous posts on a similar topic, but that's kinda irrelevant since my making the comparison between religion/cult and Disclosure was intented to serve my larger argument, which I doubt anyone else here would have been making. To my eyes, religion and cult are essentially the same thing.

But alright, I'll leave you all to your cosy little world of playground scepticism you've created for yourselves. I'll give it a couple of more years before I wander back in to see if any genuine insights into anything of true interest has cropped up, which around these forums is probably a contradiction in terms.
 
Schuyler, since the thread topic was dealing with an issue that was brought up on the Bassett Disclosure episode, what I said was hardly out of place.

That's a fair criticism to say that I didn't refer to other previous posts on a similar topic, but that's kinda irrelevant since my making the comparison between religion/cult and Disclosure was intented to serve my larger argument, which I doubt anyone else here would have been making. To my eyes, religion and cult are essentially the same thing.

But alright, I'll leave you all to your cosy little world of playground scepticism you've created for yourselves. I'll give it a couple of more years before I wander back in to see if any genuine insights into anything of true interest has cropped up, which around these forums is probably a contradiction in terms.

Seriously could you be more patronising if you tried? If you would just drop the condescending tone and actually engage with people on this forum, you may have found that your contribution was, dare I day it, welcomed ,but not necessarily agreed with. I would certainly be interested in your views of what counts as 'evidence' or your take on religious aspects of the 'UFO movement' for example. Would it have been to much trouble to start a thread on, 'What constitute evidence within the paranormal field' etc. But as opening gambit you choose to take a pop at the main host of the podcast (which is bound to push a few buttons), then proceeded to patronize him.

Did you expect everyone to just fall in line with your analysis? Now that is living in 'cosy little world of playground thinking'. Skepticism involves questioning your own assumption reflexively not just those of others or at least it should.

Maybe when you return, you could take some of these comment on board and who knows it will maybe be a more pleasant experience for 'us' (as you seem to think we are a homogeneous group, a nice easy heuristic shortcut that reveals quite a lot about your position) as well as yourself.

Regards

Ewen
 
You came here thinking there was going to be no insults? ATS still has them, and it's against the rules. Good luck finding a forum where everything is koombayah.

You're last remarks could be seen as insulting. Not that I mind, just thought I'd mention it since irony has been stated.

Ok, carry on.
Hope springs eternal, I guess. I never said I didn't expect insults. However, I would have expected there to be a modicum of respect and even leeway for differing opinions in a forum such as this. What I'm seeing is that that is not necessarily true . In fact, the back-and-forth between several posters and Rob is pointless and destructive. I certainly can see that Rob is not only something of an instigator but appears to enjoy being a provocateur. But the name calling and "piling on" is little more than joining the battle for battle's sake. He prods David, David responds, then a gaggle of others jump in as if David is not quite well-equipped to speak for himself. It feels very much like bullies pounding relentlessly on a kid who refuses to stop calling one of the bullies unflattering names. It is all one big, unfortunate exercise in sado-masochism with no rational end in sight.

In any event, I get it! Hereafter I'll exercise my own best judgment and continue to simply move on rather than engage, even peripherally, in what I believe is counterproductive and useless banter.
 
i remember one thing best from that interview and that is David talking about the experience he had in day light...David tell us what you saw...I have seen stuff close up in day light as well...it is too hard to talk, I agree ...but it will not go away in my mind...I know what i saw....I do not share it to anyone other than my wife...she knows this and much more...if I had the Parcast to verbally share the experiences I would..you do...you came out a few years ago to understand the topic...you are the most credible person I have heard yet...share it all...come on!
 
This thread brings to light how strangely people react to admission of a UFO encounter. I've never had any paranormal experiences myself. However, it seems these events can be tramautic. We often call them abductions but words like "kidnapping", "torture", and "rape" also seem appropriate. If someone close to you came and admitted to one of these... would you react with "hey come on, tell me all the details" like a kid at a candy store. Or just as sinister, would you demand proof and conclude they are probably a liar since none of these ever happened to you. In any other area of our life this would be reprehensible. However, for UFO encounters these reactions are treated as fair game. I think for most people this is still fantasy so they speak with ignorance and that's sad. The only reason I am posting (and I'm betting many others too) is because I really don't want to see Gene and David discouraged by the bad apples. The rest of us are benefitting from this work and looking forward to moving forward with intelligent discussion.
 
I've had spiritual encounters, which most people can deal with, and had the SHIT mocked out of me. If I had seen a UFO, or had any experience like unto it, I'd not say a thing in public and would be very careful whom I'd share the experience with.

Feel free to call me a pussy. Life is hard enough without the paranormal much less being treated like a total shithead because you have experienced something others haven't and simply can't come to terms with.
 
I've had spiritual encounters, which most people can deal with, and had the SHIT mocked out of me. If I had seen a UFO, or had any experience like unto it, I'd not say a thing in public and would be very careful whom I'd share the experience with.

Feel free to call me a pussy. Life is hard enough without the paranormal much less being treated like a total shithead because you have experienced something others haven't and simply can't come to terms with.

I've never been made fun of in person for my potential paranormal experiences. Guess people aren't surprised when something weird comes from out of my mouth. I wouldn't care if they did make fun. Says more about them than it does me. I'd just find something to make fun of them about. :D
 
I've never been made fun of in person for my potential paranormal experiences. Guess people aren't surprised when something weird comes from out of my mouth. I wouldn't care if they did make fun. Says more about them than it does me. I'd just find something to make fun of them about. :D

LOL! I'd like to grow a set of cojones and be a bit more vocal. But where I live, word travels fast and people look down on anything interrupts their understanding of reality. I need to go back to San Francisco area.
 
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