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Daniel Fry - Contactee?

DROBNJAK

Paranormal Adept
I'd love to hear anyone's thoughts on this subject. Because, as strange as it may seem, it appears that Daniel Fry's books may have accurately described gravitational field propulsion technology, and the basic physics of warp field navigation. And it seems to me that he definitely predicted the discovery of dark energy. To the best of my knowledge, these appear to be the first bona fide scientific predictions to ever emerge from ufology.

Wilbert Smith

Another contactee that made scientific predictions was Wilbert Smith, an Canadian Electronics engineer who worked for government. Smith was probably the first to set up an UFO tracking station, with magnetometer, electroscope and gravimeter, similar to Ray Stamford. This lab was apparently successful, and was able to record presence of UFOs. Unfortunately, UFOs only turned up when there was a heavy fog so they can't be visually idetified or photographed.



Smith's UFO craft tracking lab

His ET was called Alfie and there was no physical contact, like with Fry, just telepathy. But it was more or less daily in frequency. Alfie described himself as a garbage collector, who's job was to clean up whatever after humans would do nuclear explosions.

• Alfie told Smith that electrons are not particles and that what was than called "particles" are just a center of activity. That's what modern Quantum Field Theory (QFT) states, there are only fields, no particles. QFT is the most accurate microscopic world theory so far and its the only theory used in CERN for analyzing experiments. Only issue is that QFT came out at about the same time in late 1950's, as Smith's testimonies, so theoretically he could had read in papers about it.

• Alfie told Smith that there are 12 dimensions. Modern string theory claims there are 11 dims. Its hard to say if this counts, because String Theory is mostly conceived to make comic books more interesting to read ;-)

• When Smith asked Alfie to explain to him how propulsion works than Alfie advised him to try rotating some magnets. Smith promptly set up experiments and with an extremely accurate lab grade scale found a small deflection. Practically the same method as Fry was given.

On this low resolution photo you can just about see the setup. There was rotating magnetic ring and a small non-magnetic sample hanging off the scale. It can barely be discerned that scale shifted off the neutral point. If you follow the link bellow the photo, you can see more high resolution photos.



Gravity Control Apparatus

• Alfie as well introduced Smith to caduceus coils. Smith made some and successfully communicated with Alfie's spaceship. Caduceus coils were producing controversial faster than light longitudinal EM waves, that Tesla predicted and Lord Kelvin wrote paper about and prof. Dr. Constantin Meyl used to re-write Maxwell's equations.

Smiths designs for caduceus coils
 
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Waller

Paranormal Maven
IIRC the star is the companion of Sirius. In his blog Randle suggested contamination i.e. european missionaries might've told the Dogon about Sirius. But then why did the dogon say "star people" told them?
The Dogon’s met with many of Sirian-amphibious beings and learned agriculture, mathematics, celestial phenomenology etc duly recorded in the Dogon traditions.

The Dogon’s have referred to this physicalized race as the Nommos, but actually this is two words. First, the name they Sirian (A)s call themselves in their own civilization is the ‘OS’, and when they originally introduced themselves to the Dogons they said "Nomm-Os" or ‘I am OS’. This information is very similar, but slightly more detailed, than The Science of the Dogon: Decoding the African Mystery Tradition by Laird Scranton and John Anthony West.
 

DROBNJAK

Paranormal Adept
Re: Daniel Fry's "Atom, Galaxies and Understanding" which you can find here.

This is one paragraph on pages 26-28, where Fry explains how atoms work.

On the Pages 26-28, Fry says:

".... We can readily see that, whatever the relative strengths of the two fields to begin with, there will be a distance at which the attraction of the gravitational field will be exactly balanced by the repulsion of the electrical field. We will call this the 'critical distance'. We cannot call it the stable distance because the atoms would not actually stop at this point. In falling together, the atoms would have acquired momentum, and this momentum would carry them inward to a point where the repulsion was greater than the attraction. Then the atoms would"

Well, Fry was a smart guy, there is no doubt about that. But with a great amount of certainty we know that the gravitational field is 10^-31 weaker than EM fields and that on the atomic scale gravitational field can be neglected to very high degree. That's why for more than 100 years the best brains we have were not able to quantize gravity. So the model of atom that Fry is using is simply not right, unless it is for some kind of pedagogical value.

- - - - - - -

For example, in two of Daniel Fry's books first published in the 50s, he clearly describes dark energy, which he attributes to an extremely long-range repulsive gravitational force acting at intergalactic scales. Our best model of dark energy is described as a repulsive gravitational effect, consistent with the theory of general relativity, attributed to some massless and all-pervasive vacuum energy field that appears as the cosmological constant in Einstein's field equation. As most of us know, academic astronomy didn't detect dark energy until 1998 - more than forty years after Fry published his books.
On the page 74, Fry said:

"In July 1958. Party Noon, of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, and Domina Eberle Spencer of the University of Connecticut, published an excellent paper in the Journal of the Franklin Institute, titled "The Cosmological Principle and the Cosmological Constant." This paper demonstrates, logically and mathematically, that the assumption of a positive gravitational force within galaxies or galactic clusters, and a negative gravitational force between the clusters, offers the only practical means of explaining the observed actions of these bodies.

In the January 1959 issue of the magazine "Astronautics', Fritz Zwicky of the California Institute of Technology, published an article headed, “Is Newton's Law of Gravitation Really Universal?" In this article Zwicky pointed out that present observations indicate rather conclusively that the gravitational fields of the galactic clusters reach zero value between the dusters."


So Fry himself said that he read about the expansion of universe in an scientific paper published in 1958. That means that scientific community was aware of the expansion of universe/negative gravity since 1958/59, not from 1998. Most likely Fry wasn't quoting his alien, the Alan, but the science of the time.
 
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Thomas R Morrison

Paranormal Adept
Holy moly – I never expected four printed pages of posts to appear in this thread over the last couple of weeks :confused: Let’s dive right in…

So, according to Sean Carroll, new empty space is added to the intergalactic voids at a constant rate. And the energy density of that new empty space is constant. Right?
Yes, and Sean Carroll is an extremely intelligent scientist, but we’re way out on a limb with the current, tenuous (and I daresay “dubious”) model of dark energy. Plus, I think we could see general relativity overthrown by G4v pretty soon, so it would be prudent to bear in mind that the way we think about dark energy today is probably deeply flawed and transient.

An explanation of the Alcubierre-White Warp Drive | AsteronX
Anyway, that's a good explanation of how Alcubiere-White's drive works.
Kinda sorta. This is *by far* the most wildly optimistic assessment of the status of warp field propulsion that I’ve ever encountered – and I’ve read a lot of wildly optimistic articles on the subject in the pop literature. Who is AsteronX – is he a scientist? His expectations are far removed from that of the academic physics community. Frankly I think it’s crazy to expect a major breakthrough in the next 5-10 years, and a working warp transport within our lifetime. Barring a radical transformation of our understanding of gravitation, it looks to be a technology hundreds, or more probably thousands, of years ahead of us. But I hope I’m wrong about that.

It has to be stated clearly that what I'm about to propose is simply my intuitive view of the universe and the dark matter issue.
And it's hard to explain without a white board but here goes.

Imagine a point in the middle of the room you are in, Halfway between the floor and ceiling. Let's call it the big bang.

And BANG, A spherical pressure wave expands outwards. Now imagine that spherical pressure wave is 3 inch's thick. It has a leading edge (outside) and a trailing edge (inside).
Our galaxy is somewhat closer to the trailing edge and the observable universe is a cookie cutter sized tube 3 inches long set in this 3 inch thick sphere.

The vast majority of matter ejected by the BB, is out towards the leading edge of this pressure wave, And has already started coalescing into super super massive black holes.

The trailing edge of the wave is being pulled out towards them.

That is, the universe isn't expanding because its being pushed, But rather pulled out towards the lion's share of ejected matter now coalesced as super super massive black holes encircling the outside edge of the spherical pressure wave.

Eventually all the matter will be pulled out into these super super massive black holes, and they will then all coalesce at some point and the whole process starts again

(Big bang/Gnab Gib) or Big Bang/Big Crunch sceanario.

The Big Bang and the Big Crunch - The Physics of the Universe

No need for dark energy or dark matter in this model.

Again this is just my idea on what might be happening, I'm not presenting it as a fact or theory.
That’s an original idea; nice work – it’s hard to come up with an original idea. There are so many facets of the current inflationary model of the cosmos that don’t correlate to your model, though, that I don’t know how to build a bridge between the two. For example, in the Big Bang model, spacetime expands with the matter, rather than the matter exploding into an existing spacetime, so I don’t see how you could generate a shock wave. There are tiny ripples in the CMB, but those don’t fit a shockwave model as you’ve described here because they’re much too subtle and too small in scale.

In fact even today, it seems that on the cosmic scale the distribution of matter is sort of isotropic on average, and it’s expected to be that way throughout the entire infinite cosmos [see the results of the Baryon Oscillation Spectroscopic Survey (BOSS) for details], though of course we can’t know for sure what’s beyond the horizon of the observable universe. All we really know is that the universe appears to be flat to within observational error, so if there is any kind of density gradient (the key feature of a compression wave) then it’s either too subtle to detect, or it lies completely beyond the observable universe.

It’s always a good practice to consider a wide variety of explanatory mechanisms – it keeps the mind nimble and pliable. And sometimes an explanation that you’ve considered for one phenomenon, down the line turns out to explain a different phenomenon perfectly. I suggest reading everything you can about the current model, and the evidence that’s used to support it and how, and seeing if you can make your idea fit the observations. It’s a good exercise, if nothing else.

I've just finished reading Fry's book "To Men of Earth", 1973 edition.

Maybe I was focusing on the bad stuff. But there was a lot off-putting in that story.

He starts with two Earth's ancient civilizations, Atlantis and somebody else in from Pacific, fighting in a nuclear war. That's baloney. Did he hear that from ETs? Or was it just an embellishment. Who knows.
In an open letter to N.I.C.A.P. in 1958, Daniel Fry stated the following:

“In composing my report of the incident at White Sands, I took great care to present it in such a manner that it would immediately be dismissed as nonsense by the `military’ type of mind, and yet would present all the vital information in such a. manner that its value could readily be understood by the type of mind capable of making use of it.”
NICAP Policy on Contactees | Daniel Fry Dot Com

I assume that he included all of that Atlantic and Mu stuff in the book for that precise purpose, but perhaps I’m too forgiving. I would think that he would’ve needed to get permission from the military to write about an alleged experience that transpired at a top secret US military missile testing base, and that getting that permission would be much easier if they felt that it was a work of fiction, which the Atlantic and Lemuria stuff strongly suggests. I think he talked about this in one of his recorded talks – I’ll see if I can find it next time I’m listening to my audio archive of Daniel Fry, and I’ll post a transcript of that part if I can find it.

Second, he talks about these particles, that are the part of the cargo craft's skin. These particle are coerced out from atom's nuclei and they create a repulsive force. So when he pressed on the craft's hull with his finger, finger kept slipping as if surface was covered with oil. Now, I guess there is no such particle in the Standard Model. Even more so, none of the nuclei constituents, like gluons, can be coerced out of the protons & neutrons. One of the firmest postulates of the Standard Model is that if you try to pull gluon out of, say proton, whole thing will explode and you'll never see gluon. Or, simply, constituent parts of nucleons can not be extracted.
If you read that part more carefully, you’ll see that he’s referring to something that he calls a “binding energy particle,” and he describes it in distinctly different terms than the ordinary particles of matter (the Standard Model particles). A “binding energy particle” would possess negative energy (and therefore negative mass), by definition, because binding energy is always negative. In fact he’s certainly talking about a field, and not a particle in the conventional sense, because binding energy doesn’t exist in isolation; it’s a product of other forces (all fundamental particles are actually point-like entities defined by their field characteristic in quantum field theory though, so it’s really not much different than this concept). This is definitely one of those topics in his books which falls into the category of “alien physics,” because A-lan’s people have a very different view of physics than we have, we’re told – that’s also discussed in his books: Fry is told that it would require a complete re-education on the fundamentals of physics for him to understand fundamental physics from their perspective.

It may also be worth mentioning that the nuclear strong force, which Fry is told is a different form of the gravitational force, possesses both a positive and a negative polarity: at very short distances the strong force is repulsive (which is why atomic nuclei don’t implode). Only at slightly larger distances does it become strongly attractive. A-lan is suggesting that the atomic nucleus can be modified to create a repulsion field that extends out beyond the electrons. At one point he describes the process required to do this, and it involves a long-term saturating bombardment of platinum nuclei with high-energy (I think in the form of photons or protons - I can’t recall at the moment). Anyway, this is how he explains the short-range field that protects the craft from micrometeorites and such. I have no idea if it’s theoretically feasible; nobody does. We’re only now beginning to engineer the quantum wavefunction of matter at the molecular scale (see: topological insulators). Nobody’s given serious thought to synthetically engineering the wavefunction of nuclear matter yet.

But that's interesting anyhow. Because Bob Lazar described the workings of artificial gravitation of the craft he had worked on in a similar way. I forgot the exact mechanism, but some particles were extracted from nucleons and they created artificial gravity. Did Lazar read Fry's book?
It seems unlikely, but it’s possible. In Lazar’s model, superheavy nuclei emit gravitational waves which are then rectified and passed through waveguides to create a localized gravitational field. But I think that Lazar was hired by an intelligence agency to parrot the story that they wanted him to publicize, for reasons relating to the superheavy elements on the island of stability. But that’s a whole other topic – it came up before here, perhaps in this thread. A guy with Lazar’s publicly documented skeeziness would never get a security clearance to work on an unacknowledged special access program. But he might have qualified for a covert intelligence operation, where unethical behavior can be an asset.

And quite recently, journalist Phillip Krapf who worked for the Los Angeles Times newspaper, was apparently a contactee. In his story, aliens lived on large ships and cruised from a star to a star. In his case, they had a giant ship hiding behind the Moon. But he was invited to dine with them and apparently food was first class.
It’s funny you should bring this up – I just listened to Krapf’s interview on the old Art Bell show, from back in the 90’s. This is another one of these crazy stories that just sounds so sincere when he tells it; I don’t know what to make of it. Dan Sherman’s interview was like this too. Both of these guys sound so incredibly earnest. And if their stories are true, it’s gargantuan news. It’s so hard to believe though – even harder than Fry’s story, which is mundane by comparison.

Fry's idea of moving the whole civilization off onto the giant ships makes lots of sense, because its safer and more controllable environment.
Sure - with artificial gravity and warp field propulsion, plus highly sensitive sensors to detect fast-moving particles in the vicinity of the craft, that would be the way to live. It’s interesting that he described this long before Star Trek made the notion of living aboard a spaceship a popular concept.

As well, the idea discussed here in another thread, about Roswell autopsy report, perfectly matches the idea of life on a big ship. In that thread aliens were described as apparently creating body's energy through photosynthesis, so much so that they didn't have digestive organs. As Fry described, these ships would have a plenty of opportunity to produce, harvest and store energy in a form of electricity. And electricity is easily converted into light. And light, through the photosynthesis can easily provide living organism with energy, without a need for food, food storage and food preparation. Artificial photosynthesis in laboratory is 20 times more efficient than what plant do. So, photosynthesis can produce more energy than a human actually needs.

Instead of bothering with breakfast, lunch and dinner, you just walk around naked and sleep in a sun-bed. ;-)
Sure, but I bet there’s a way to engineer a very practical and efficient closed system for creatures like ourselves, as well. Imagine eating dinners that are fully absorbed into the body, and filtering the waste products out of the urine to make other products through bioengineered algae and soforth. Photosynthetic skin would be pretty convenient, but who doesn’t love breakfast?

That should be enjoyable for you. Here's a start,
Jane Roberts - Seth Speaks.pdf (PDFy mirror) : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive
most if not all the Roberts/Seth material can be found freely on the 'Net.
Thank you. Can you cite any successful scientific predictions in the Seth material, so we can all hear about them? I still haven’t made time to read my own sister’s novel, so it’s gonna be awhile before I can read this book.

And many dimensions. Let me suggest that you create your own OBE and prove it to yourself. For most, moi included, it is truly a spiritually transformative experience. I have a particular affinity for William Buhlman whose books are superb...

AstralInfo.org About the Author - AstralInfo.org
...I still use the Hemi-Sync recordings from the Monroe Institute to generate self-induced OBEs. Caveat: Know where you are going before you get there, OBE will take you where you set your intent.
Interesting. I’ve never heard of William Buhlman; I’ll have to look him up. I felt that way about my first lucid dream experience. And I’ve read Robert Monroe’s first book and one of Ingo Swann’s books, but I’ve never had an OBE.

Scientists are actually studying OBEs now, finally – there was an article about it in The Atlantic a few days ago actually. Fascinating stuff:

Why People Have Out-of-Body Experiences

I wonder if OBEs are a form of lucid dream.

Re WARP DRIVE, there is a faint trace case of something possibly similar to an warp drive artifact.

In the one of the best multiple whiteness cases ever, known as Kelly Cahill, Australian August 1993 case, a physicist John Auchettl, as a principal investigator from the Phenomena Research Australia (PRA), did a measurement of the landing site with magnetometer and found a static magnetic anomaly. This is is the diagram that he presented:


The static magnetic anomaly, that can be seen in the middle, is in a shape of the crescent. I admit its not much as what both halves of a fully formed warp drive would show.
That’s intriguing – you find some great stuff.

It’s a radical leap to attribute a magnetic field effect like that to a warp field effect though – according to our current understanding of warp field physics, they shouldn’t produce any static magnetic field effects like that. A warp field is an energy field, not a magnetic field. Of course, we don’t really know the best way to try to produce that energy field – it might involve electrical and magnetic fields, but if so, I would think that the fields would oscillate – and that would actually degauss magnetic materials, not magnetize them. But like I said, we are definitely grasping in the dark on this topic: until somebody can produce a warp field effect, it’s premature to assign any specific physical attributes to them other than their key operational characteristic: locally distorted spacetime.

These static magnetic anomalies are typical in many other UFO cases. Practically, for several days after UFO left there is a strong static magnetic signature even on non-magnetizable (para-magnetic) objects like soil, trees, plastic etc.
That’s interesting too. How a static magnetic field could be related to a field propulsion system is a total mystery to me though. Perhaps it’s not related; maybe they store their energy magnetically rather than electrically (casually ignoring the unification of electromagnetism here, for the sake of specificity).

Not at all unlikely; ETs have spouted baloney for decades.
That’s a good point. Daniel Fry’s books about physics are uniquely logical and sensible though, which is why I focus on them. And they allegedly originated from his conversation with his alien contact, so it’s possible, if improbable, that they’re analogous to a modern physicist trying to explain general relativity to an ancient Greek.

I haven't read the book so I don't know where he got that info from albeit it is fundamentally true.

Atlantis was plagued by warring factions and finally destroyed nearly 13,000 years ago by an asteroid. A completely different source ( “Lucillius ” — one of Dr. Marshall’s past lives) came through the direct voice medium Leslie Flint in an August 27, 1962, seance also explains how Atlantis was plagued by warring factions and finally destroyed by an asteroid nearly 13,000 years ago.
I find it disturbing that you place so much confidence in the words of mediums and channelers. And I know of no evidence that the Earth was impacted by a significantly energetic asteroid 13,000 years ago.

Don't know about ET cuisine but the "cruising from star to star" fails at the first application of common sense. Light-year distances cannot be covered in reasonable time simply by cruising. ET looks at an object, like a ship (which is fully conscious), and replaces the location variable (part of the energetic equation of that object that we fail to see) with a new definition. The movement is instantaneous and requires no propulsion. Including many of the ships parked on the dark side of the moon.


That's one way, many ETs do not sleep or eat because they have learned how to directly tap Source energy.
First you directly contradict yourself on the subject of interstellar propulsion, and then you refer to something called “Source energy” which is totally undefined. Also, “common sense” is the least reliable compass for scientific understanding. So it would probably be completely futile to respond to any of that.

Another contactee that made scientific predictions was Wilbert Smith, an Canadian Electronics engineer who worked for government. Smith was probably the first to set up an UFO tracking station, with magnetometer, electroscope and gravimeter, similar to Ray Stamford. This lab was apparently successful, and was able to record presence of UFOs. Unfortunately, UFOs only turned up when there was a heavy fog so they can't be visually idetified or photographed.


Smith's UFO craft tracking lab

His ET was called Alfie and there was no physical contact, like with Fry, just telepathy. But it was more or less daily in frequency. Alfie described himself as a garbage collector, who's job was to clean up whatever after humans would do nuclear explosions.

• Alfie told Smith that electrons are not particles and that what was than called "particles" are just a center of activity. That's what modern Quantum Field Theory (QFT) states, there are only fields, no particles. QFT is the most accurate microscopic world theory so far and its the only theory used in CERN for analyzing experiments. Only issue is that QFT came out at about the same time in late 1950's, as Smith's testimonies, so theoretically he could had read in papers about it.

• Alfie told Smith that there are 12 dimensions. Modern string theory claims there are 11 dims. Its hard to say if this counts, because String Theory is mostly conceived to make comic books more interesting to read ;-)

• When Smith asked Alfie to explain to him how propulsion works than Alfie advised him to try rotating some magnets. Smith promptly set up experiments and with an extremely accurate lab grade scale found a small deflection. Practically the same method as Fry was given.

On this low resolution photo you can just about see the setup. There was rotating magnetic ring and a small non-magnetic sample hanging off the scale. It can barely be discerned that scale shifted off the neutral point. If you follow the link bellow the photo, you can see more high resolution photos.


Gravity Control Apparatus

• Alfie as well introduced Smith to caduceus coils. Smith made some and successfully communicated with Alfie's spaceship. Caduceus coils were producing controversial faster than light longitudinal EM waves, that Tesla predicted and Lord Kelvin wrote paper about and prof. Dr. Constantin Meyl used to re-write Maxwell's equations.

Smiths designs for caduceus coils
Huh, I’d never heard about “Alfie” before. There’s some fun stuff in there, but it’s all anecdotal. I’d want to see a scientific paper about any of these effects before placing any confidence in them; it’s very easy to mistake experimental error for a legitimate effect without a very careful and thorough analysis of the data and the appropriate experimental controls.

The Dogon’s met with many of Sirian-amphibious beings and learned agriculture, mathematics, celestial phenomenology etc duly recorded in the Dogon traditions.

The Dogon’s have referred to this physicalized race as the Nommos, but actually this is two words. First, the name they Sirian (A)s call themselves in their own civilization is the ‘OS’, and when they originally introduced themselves to the Dogons they said "Nomm-Os" or ‘I am OS’. This information is very similar, but slightly more detailed, than The Science of the Dogon: Decoding the African Mystery Tradition by Laird Scranton and John Anthony West.
That’s great – I’ve been interested in the Dogon tribe for quite awhile, but I’ve never seen a citation for a follow-up. Thank you.

Re: Daniel Fry's "Atom, Galaxies and Understanding" which you can find here.

This is one paragraph on pages 26-28, where Fry explains how atoms work.

On the Pages 26-28, Fry says:

".... We can readily see that, whatever the relative strengths of the two fields to begin with, there will be a distance at which the attraction of the gravitational field will be exactly balanced by the repulsion of the electrical field. We will call this the 'critical distance'. We cannot call it the stable distance because the atoms would not actually stop at this point. In falling together, the atoms would have acquired momentum, and this momentum would carry them inward to a point where the repulsion was greater than the attraction. Then the atoms would"

Well, Fry was a smart guy, there is no doubt about that. But with a great amount of certainty we know that the gravitational field is 10^-31 weaker than EM fields and that on the atomic scale gravitational field can be neglected to very high degree. That's why for more than 100 years the best brains we have were not able to quantize gravity. So the model of atom that Fry is using is simply not right, unless it is for some kind of pedagogical value.
I tend to agree with this, but on the other hand, we don’t have an explicit mechanistic understanding of how mass-energy produces gravitation. And given the dark matter and dark energy phenomena, it looks like general relativity has failed. I love it – it’s an amazing and beautiful theory, but it’s not the last word on gravity.

We expect that all fields will ultimately be explained by a grand unified theory of quantum fields. If that’s true, then gravity and the strong force are related – just as all of the other fields are related as well. And until we can explicitly define the nature of that relationship, we can’t with any confidence state that A.) the nuclear strong force and gravitation aren’t two aspects of a single and more fundamental field, or B.) that Fry’s description is wrong. We can say that it’s at odds with *our current understanding of gravitation and the nuclear strong force.* But that’s not saying much, because we know that our understanding of physics is incomplete at a deep theoretical level.

On the page 74, Fry said:

"In July 1958. Party Noon, of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, and Domina Eberle Spencer of the University of Connecticut, published an excellent paper in the Journal of the Franklin Institute, titled "The Cosmological Principle and the Cosmological Constant." This paper demonstrates, logically and mathematically, that the assumption of a positive gravitational force within galaxies or galactic clusters, and a negative gravitational force between the clusters, offers the only practical means of explaining the observed actions of these bodies.

In the January 1959 issue of the magazine "Astronautics', Fritz Zwicky of the California Institute of Technology, published an article headed, “Is Newton's Law of Gravitation Really Universal?" In this article Zwicky pointed out that present observations indicate rather conclusively that the gravitational fields of the galactic clusters reach zero value between the dusters."

So Fry himself said that he read about the expansion of universe in an scientific paper published in 1958. That means that scientific community was aware of the expansion of universe/negative gravity since 1958/59, not from 1998. Most likely Fry wasn't quoting his alien, the Alan, but the science of the time.
Haha – that’s a really nice try, but here’s the problem: those ideas were completely rejected by the science of the time. That’s why astrophysicists all over the world had to grab their ankles when “dark energy” was proven in 1998 – and they’re still shocked and bewildered by it. In fact, they’re *still* so convinced that gravitation doesn’t have a negative polarity, that they’re entertaining literally any idea that could explain the dark energy effect without having to seriously entertain the notion that gravitation becomes repulsive at cosmic scales – which is what Fry was explicitly stating.

Fritz Zwicky was so far ahead of his time that it’s genuinely mind-boggling, and Parry Moon was right there with him on this. I’ve read both of those papers, and they’re brilliant. But like I said, everyone wrote them off as eccentric kooks at the time for making that argument. Except Daniel Fry, and perhaps a few others. So the question is: how did Daniel Fry know that they were right, fifty years before the rest of the academic science community caught up with them?

One fact that recently emerged from my reading, is that Fritz Zwicky consulted with Aerojet. Daniel Fry worked on Aerojet rockets. So maybe they knew each other, and maybe Zwicky talked to him about this idea. But even if he did, how did Daniel Fry know that he was right, when all of top astrophysicists on the planet simply assumed that he’d made an analytical error? That’s a haunting question, and one that I’m hard-pressed to explain.

This brings up an interesting thought that I keep running into while studying Daniel Fry’s story: perhaps A-lan’s people have a kind of “Prime Directive” that allows them to share scientific knowledge only within the confines of a given civilization’s existing knowledge, to avoid any catastrophic contamination of their natural scientific and technological evolution. So they could scour the existing scientific knowledge of a civilization like ours, and simply present key features of that knowledge in a manner that inspired progress in the right direction, but without directing interfering by contributing new knowledge. Consider this: if A-lan had given Daniel Fry explicit instruction on the construction and the operating principles of a gravitational field propulsion mechanism, then how might the Cuban missile crisis have played out? If the US had the ability to deliver nuclear warheads over every Russian city before they could respond, we might’ve chosen to attack, and triggered a nuclear winter that would’ve wiped out human civilization. And it would’ve been A-lan’s fault. Just something I muse upon, when I’m inclined to suspend my disbelief and earnestly consider the resulting implications of his story.
 
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DROBNJAK

Paranormal Adept
That’s interesting too. How a static magnetic field could be related to a field propulsion system is a total mystery to me though. Perhaps it’s not related; maybe they store their energy magnetically rather than electrically (casually ignoring the unification of electromagnetism here, for the sake of specificity).
If you read all the papers in my signature than that's what comes out. From these papers, UFOs are surrounded by a very strong EM field that is oscillating around an offset level. So fields are not going positive than negative, they are say, oscillating but always on the positive side.

Practically, looking externally, UFO is a flying Tesla coil. Now, most likely, that is NOT related to propulsion at all.

Without any false modesty, we can easily understand many of peripheral aspects of UFO technology. They have to deal with the same laws of physics as we do and not everything they do needs to be exotic.

Its more likely that they use these strong alternating, but offset, electric fields to push various debris out of the way of the UFO's hull. Interstellar voids are full of protons and small meteorites. In about 60% of cases (need to check that) UFOs are surrounded with coherent lights, that cycle Red-Green-Blue.

Now, practically all the gasses in Earth's atmosphere have absorption lines in RGB spectrum. So, they most likely use these coherent lights to strip electrons from atmosphere (when on Earth) and the small meteorites (when in space). Once gasses/micro-meteorites are ionized they can be pushed out of the way by one-sided electric fields.
We can understand this technology because we have coherent light, in a form of lasers. Only thing we don't have is cycling lasers through a full RGB spectrum. But, say that cycling RGB laser was available, than we would be able to fly up to the Venus or Jupiter and simply push atmosphere out of the way with the ( coherent light + flying Tesla coil ) combo. We would not need heat shields and there would be no fiery entry into planet's atmosphere, like now. Effectively, depending only on the available power, we would be able to fly all the way to the Jupiter's hard core and atmosphere would never touch the skin of our spaceship.

Here is an video showing an alleged UFO pushing vapor from chem trail out of its way:



Huh, I’d never heard about “Alfie” before. There’s some fun stuff in there, but it’s all anecdotal. I’d want to see a scientific paper about any of these effects before placing any confidence in them; it’s very easy to mistake experimental error for a legitimate effect without a very careful and thorough analysis of the data and the appropriate experimental controls.
Yeah, Smith talked extensively about Alfie.

As well, Smith simply didn't have resources for a full scale super-controled lab experiment. His group worked as volunteers, in a spare time, while paying out of the pocket for all the expenses.

What's more interesting is that both Smith and Fry talked about rotating magnets as a parts of a craft's propulsion. Practically, Smith's layout of magnets is the same as in the Fry's cross-section of the cargo ship. And if I remember that correctly, General Relativity predicts creation of small gravity field from a rotating magnetic field.

Daniel Fry UFO by GALACTIC CONTACT, on Flickr
 
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Waller

Paranormal Maven
Interesting. I’ve never heard of William Buhlman; I’ll have to look him up. I felt that way about my first lucid dream experience. And I’ve read Robert Monroe’s first book and one of Ingo Swann’s books, but I’ve never had an OBE.
Sure you have, it is called sleep-dream state. That is a classical spontaneous OBE. A self-instigated OBE will require that you find a focal point and, if you desire to explore a certain realm, an intention to do so. I'll leave Buhlman et al to the instruction, he's an ab-fab teacher if you ever get the chance to go Monroe Institute or read his books (or watch a video).

Scientists are actually studying OBEs now, finally – there was an article about it in The Atlantic a few days ago actually. Fascinating stuff: Why People Have Out-of-Body Experiences I wonder if OBEs are a form of lucid dream. That’s intriguing – you find some great stuff.
Among the OBE community, they separate lucid dreams from the OBE but I don't agree according to my experiences. To me they are intrinsically linked, here, this is a good explanation.

Out of Body Experiences: Are OBEs Real or Lucid Dreams?

First you directly contradict yourself on the subject of interstellar propulsion, and then you refer to something called “Source energy” which is totally undefined. Also, “common sense” is the least reliable compass for scientific understanding. So it would probably be completely futile to respond to any of that.
Source energy is well defined to me, others call it The Creator, All That Is, God, etc. It is from Source that we all exist as an image, a holographic representation, if you will, of Source. We are here to give ourselves and Source a different POV of itself through our existence. Shards of the Mirror.

Common sense (intuition) is not meant to be a reliable scientific anything, it is the connection through imagination with your Higher Mind. It is the one of the tools that Higher Mind uses to point you the best way thru your path in life. It required nothing more than your application of it.

As to interstellar propulsion, no ET communicator out of the 1,000 of hours I have reviewed has ever mention traveling from star to star (or dimension to dimension) in any other means than by changing the location variable of the ship which can be accomplished by bombarding the object (ship) with the new vibration of the new location, it will immediately change where it exists. The ship has no choice. This does not include planetary travel or earth-bound travel (e.g. Roswell) which use a kinds of differing propulsion systems.

I'm not very 'big' on science, why should I? I, and anyone else who has an open heart and a truly inquiring mind, can find much, much more rich material from the highly advanced ETs who have been dispensing information for the greater part of 40 years. It's fun to watch scientists find out what many of us already knew.
 

mike

Paranormal Adept
I don’t see how you could generate a shock wave.
In this case the term shock wave refers to the outward explosion of material from the big bang. Its said the force of this explosion was so great that matter was moved faster than the speed of light during the initial inflation period.

https://www.quora.com/How-can-the-Universe-expand-faster-than-the-speed-of-light-during-inflation

So this matter was put into motion, and unless more is spewing in from the point of singularity from someplace else we might visualize this matter as being like the rind on a watermelon.
Imagine this was the universe cut in half.



That dark ring is the physical universe. Its an expanding shell, not a solid ball.

I suspect our location in this expanding shell of matter is toward the inside the white pithy part of the watermelon rind, and not the outside the harder green part.
If we are on the trailing (inside)edge the less dense part of the shell, and the lions share of the matter is on the outer leading edge of expansion, we could be getting pulled after it, rather than pushed out.

If this matter has coalesced into super massive black holes then our momentum could be a combination of the energy of the big bang pushing us out, and the gravitational pull of the SMBH's pulling us out as well.

Right after the Big Bang, the universe had a monstrous growth-spurt called inflation. The whole thing was over in less than a trillionth of a trillionth of a second, but the universe grew exponentially in that brief blip, repeatedly doubling in size. At the end of inflation, although the universe was still smaller than a car, the outer edge had traveled many times faster than the speed of light. Since then, the universe has continued its expansion, but at a more reasonable, steady pace.

How could the universe expand faster than the speed of light? That seems impossible! » Scienceline
 
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DROBNJAK

Paranormal Adept
So this matter was put into motion, and unless more is spewing in from the point of singularity from someplace else we might visualize this matter as being like the rind on a watermelon.
Imagine this was the universe cut in half.



That dark ring is the physical universe. Its an expanding shell, not a solid ball.
That idea is relatively easy to check. With that geometry, expansion in the plane tangential to the sphere's surface will be faster than along the axis towards the sphere's center. Actually, radial expansion might even be close to zero.

Et voila, do the math, you might be right.
 

mike

Paranormal Adept
Again i have to state that this is just my intuitive idea of what might be happening.
I'm not presenting it as fact.
I'm not sure we know all the answers yet regarding cosmology, Humans for a long time have been very certain they know what the universe looks like based on observations.
From the flat earth, to the geocentric universe model. The people of those times were just as certain those models were correct as we are today regarding the big bang theory.

Some aspects of it make no intuitive sense to me, for example were are told that before the bang, we had a singularity and that time did not exist, then the Big bang happened.
To me if time did not exist, the singularity should have remained frozen in that state.

Most cosmologists agree that spacetime and matter all came from the Big Bang, im not so sure.
I think spacetime may have always existed and the matter we see is separate from that.
 

DROBNJAK

Paranormal Adept
That’s intriguing – you find some great stuff.

It’s a radical leap to attribute a magnetic field effect like that to a warp field effect though – according to our current understanding of warp field physics, they shouldn’t produce any static magnetic field effects like that. A warp field is an energy field, not a magnetic field. Of course, we don’t really know the best way to try to produce that energy field – it might involve electrical and magnetic fields, but if so, I would think that the fields would oscillate – and that would actually degauss magnetic materials, not magnetize them. But like I said, we are definitely grasping in the dark on this topic: until somebody can produce a warp field effect, it’s premature to assign any specific physical attributes to them other than their key operational characteristic: locally distorted spacetime.
Re: Kelly Cahill, Australian August 1993 case and the crescent shaped static magnetic field anomaly.

Of course half crescent magnetic anomaly doesn't mean a Warp drive, but there is a possibility, because we now so little.

On other hand, it is interesting that only a half crescent was observed, not a full circle, nor there was an opposite polarity crescent on the other side. Now, the Alcubiere's warp drive consists of two crescents of the opposite polarity, but it would perfectly be able to move the craft even with just one crescent. That possibly leads to conclusion that there is no need for negative energy/matter, because one side of Alcubier's bubble is normal energy and the opposite side is negative energy. One side is pushing, the other is pulling. Am I right here?

In that way, with just positive energy, ufos would be able to move without negative energy and thus they have just one field crescent.

I found another case with a crescent shaped anomaly, only this time it its only mechanical. There was a 3m diameter semi-circle of uprooted vegetation. Unfortunately, I don't remember any other case with ripped vegetation. Investigators didn't have any instruments that would check for EM effects. The case was from Italy, where it's quite famous, the Zanfretta abduction case:

3m diameter of uprooted grass and soil:

Other physical evidence:

The main physical evidence was that the whole body of his car was hot. We know that from literally thousands of cases there is an alternating EM field around UFO. Alternating EM field would cause induction of eddie currents that will heat metallic body of the car. Induction heating is actually how metals are melted in factory.
 
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Thomas R Morrison

Paranormal Adept
On other hand, it is interesting that only a half crescent was observed, not a full circle, nor there was an opposite polarity crescent on the other side. Now, the Alcubiere's warp drive consists of two crescents of the opposite polarity, but it would perfectly be able to move the craft even with just one crescent. That possibly leads to conclusion that there is no need for negative energy/matter, because one side of Alcubier's bubble is normal energy and the opposite side is negative energy. One side is pushing, the other is pulling. Am I right here?

In that way, with just positive energy, ufos would be able to move without negative energy and thus they have just one field crescent.
Here's the problem: we have no idea how to create a gravitational field other than by accumulating a great deal of mass-energy. And there's no way to create a linear motion that way.

If we could create a gravitational field centered ahead of the ship, or perhaps simply ahead of the center of mass of the ship, now we're in interesting territory. Hypothetically, in that situation if you maintained the center of the "somehow synthesized" gravitational field ahead of the ship's center of mass, it would keep falling toward that point indefinitely. That's how it's described in Daniel Fry's later edition (1973, iirc) of The White Sands Incident.

That's where the negative mass-energy comes in handy: you don't need to figure out how to make the gravitational field move ahead of the center of mass, if you have negative matter generating a repulsive gravitational field. The negative mass moves the center of the positive gravitational field forward ahead of the center of mass, and bingo, you have acceleration. Robert Forward wrote a paper in 1990 called "Negative Matter Propulsion" that describes this very clearly - I consider it a valid precursor to Alcubierre's 1994 warp drive paper.

One idea that I've had that I've never seen anyone write about yet, is the idea of generating a gravitational standing wave by oscillating the positive magnitudes of two masses, which of course can be done with large quantities of energy. At the right frequency, the point where the two gravitational fields are at maximum constructive interference, would act like a positive center of gravity just ahead of the ship's center of mass, so it would fall toward that point. By altering the phase you could move the center of attraction forward or backward to control your rate of acceleration and deceleration. But gravitational radiation takes enormous energies to create, so it's currently impossible to experiment with it.

Another idea that I ran across that may be of interest, is this odd little paper that explores the idea of moving the center of mass of a rotating hemisphere to produce motion. I discussed this with a physics professor friend, and he rejected it, but the basis of his objection struck me as an inapplicable analogy, so this one's still in my grey box. But if the author's calculations are correct, the effect may be experimentally attainable with today's technology:
Anomalous Center of Mass Shift: Gravitational Dipole Moment : Eue Jin Jeong : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive

I found another case with a crescent shaped anomaly, only this time it its only mechanical. There was a 3m diameter semi-circle of uprooted vegetation. Unfortunately, I don't remember any other case with ripped vegetation. Investigators didn't have any instruments that would check for EM effects. The case was from Italy, where it's quite famous, the Zanfretta abduction case:

3m diameter of uprooted grass and soil:

Other physical evidence:

The main physical evidence was that the whole body of his car was hot. We know that from literally thousands of cases there is an alternating EM field around UFO. Alternating EM field would cause induction of eddie currents that will heat metallic body of the car. Induction heating is actually how metals are melted in factory.
Sure, oscillating magnetic fields easily induce heat in metal. You'd think we would've heard about more cases of cars getting hot in close proximity to a ufo though.

It's frustrating to try to make physical sense of these trace evidence cases; you could drive yourself crazy trying to back-engineer a propulsion system that way. And any single case could be an exception to the rule, rather than the rule itself, in terms of the underlying lift principle.

What we need is a spectrum of scientific measurements taken in real-time of sighting cases, like the rig that Chris has been working on. Then we could directly see how changes in non-visible factors correlate to performance, and we might get somewhere with the propulsion theory.

Until we have that kind of data, I'm focusing on understanding physics, because however these things work, they abide by those laws.
 

DROBNJAK

Paranormal Adept
One idea that I've had that I've never seen anyone write about yet, is the idea of generating a gravitational standing wave by oscillating the positive magnitudes of two masses, which of course can be done with large quantities of energy. At the right frequency, the point where the two gravitational fields are at maximum constructive interference, would act like a positive center of gravity just ahead of the ship's center of mass, so it would fall toward that point. By altering the phase you could move the center of attraction forward or backward to control your rate of acceleration and deceleration. But gravitational radiation takes enormous energies to create, so it's currently impossible to experiment with it.
I've seen something similar to this and it actually works from equations of Special Relativity. One professor of physics, in his spare time, is doing that with energy, rather than mass. He's simply using capacitors to oscillate energy, but the effects are so small that they are beyond the reach of even the most accurate instruments.


It's frustrating to try to make physical sense of these trace evidence cases; you could drive yourself crazy trying to back-engineer a propulsion system that way. And any single case could be an exception to the rule, rather than the rule itself, in terms of the underlying lift principle.
I don't share that opinion at all.

We are not really talking about one weird effect here and another solitary effect there. We are talking about a stream of thousands of cases where THE SAME EFFECTS keep on repeating. Like a clockwork, thousands of these craft are emitting a powerful oscillating EM fields and they produce fuzzy color-changing plasma few inches from the skin of the craft. And these effect stay constant even if different alien species were observed.

Strong alternating EM field is the most well established technical fact in a whole of ufology. One just needs to follow the link in my signature to meet with dozens of technical papers written on subject, by highly qualified academics and engineers.

It's only the haphazard nature of the individual UFO incidents that obscures the alternating EM fields issue. Witnesses are more biased to talk about psychological effects, than physical observations. As well, EM fields are invisible, which means that many times they will be missed or partially reported.

We can not treat UFO cases on "one by one" basis, like we are watching a TV drama. The only way to do science with UFOs is to put few thousands of cases into one basket and than extract the average properties and follow the statistical significant trends.

Because gravity is so immeasurably weak, any "big idea" theoretical approach starting from existing knowledge is doomed to failure from the day one. Practically, there is nothing to "hook" on. The best proof that that approach leads nowhere is a "graveyard" of approximately 4,000 gravitational papers, published over the span of 50 years, at Gravity Research Foundation's site. Please, see for yourself here WINNERS BY YEAR And they have 3 Nobel prize winners among the contributors.

Contrary to that, statistical analysis of large UFO case databases, like MUFON's with 40,000 cases, would help us eliminate hundreds of theoretical "dark alleys". Instead of studying 4,000 GravityResearchFoundation's theories, we can just foucs ono 20-30 that are connected with strong alternating EM fields.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

But all the above is actually a moot point.

Anomalous EM thrust and a direct link between EM fields and gravity had been confirmed by 4 significant scientific institutions in US, China, Germany etc.


Practically, the anomalous thrust from the above EM Drive explains why UFOs produce strong alternating EM fields. If you want, EM Drive just ads up one more proof that UFOs had been real all the time.

More or less, EM Drive is the end of ufology.

Now the we made a first small step towards field propulsion, we know how aliens got here. As well, because EM Drive's anomalous thrust can't be explained with existing physics, we known that our theories are incomplete and faster-than-light travel might be in a store.

For the curious, the way EM Drive works is when two EM waves are out of a phase by 180 degrees the sum of EM fields is zero. Because EM fields are zero EM wave doesn't reflect off the conductive (metallic) cavity walls, but passes through them. As two canceled waves leave the cavity they carry away energy & momentum with themselves. That creates, at least, momentum imbalance, which than manifests as a force and movement.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

If I had to place a bet on a gravitation theory, it seems to me, from everything that I read so far is that gravity is simply a density of quantum foam (aka. space-time). Mater squeezes out quantum foam from inside of the dense object and that creates a region of a denser quantum foam (aka. space-time) near the object. That's why when one lifts up atomic clock it starts ticking faster, because quantum foam's density becomes lower.

Now these variations in quantum foam's density might appear as a field, that indeed can look as if producing pulling and pushing forces.

If we can reduce density of quantum foam inside some object, object would get pulled by the outer 'normal' density space. Obviously we just make it asymmetric, like when a skier leans his body to one side to create asymmetry and slightly go off balance, and off-balance creates movement.

Density of quantum foam (aka. space-time) can be reduced in two ways.

Way one is Kazimir's effect with two parallel plates that are very, very close. These parallel plates eliminate longer wavelengths from the quantum foam and foam becomes less dense. Now, the space outside the gap between plates is still at its normal density. Practically one is having a low density quantum foam bubble in the middle of higher density quantum foam.

That way the outer, higher density quantum foam, would pull on the matter inside the lower density quantum foam bubble. An interesting experiment would be to place some electrically neutral heavy object, like neutrons, between Kazimir's plates and see if they will be pulled out towards the outer 'normal' density quantum foam.

Second way to reduce density of quantum foam, is with EM waves like lasers, microwaves, light etc. I know very little about this approach, but it was apparently experimentally confirmed and it works something like this: you 'pump' a region of space with coherent EM waves that are out of the phase so that one gets destructive interference. Somehow, I don't know how, that destructive interference 'wipes out' these same wavelengths from the quantum foam and quantum foam becomes less dense.

Now, its interesting to note that about 40% of UFOs (meaning 100s of cases) have UFOs were either projecting multicolored laser beams around the craft or flashing multicolored plasma. Is that for the purpose of reducing density of quantum foam and producing attraction of the craft?
 
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DROBNJAK

Paranormal Adept
On a completely separate note, I just finished reading "Millennial Hospitality" by a nuclear physicist Charles Hall. His observations of of alien craft technology are very similar, if not identical, to Daniel Fry's.

Charles Hall as well worked in Nelis AFB, very similar and close to where Daniel Fry worked.
 
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marduk

quelling chaos since 2352BC
EM drive an end to ufology?

I'd love to see it work, but it still probably doesn't.

Top of the wiki page:

Such thrusters have been hypothesized since 2001 when British engineer Roger Shawyer published details of the concept. To date, there is no theoretical consensus as to how a resonant cavity could produce such thrust.[1] As of 2017, a few tests of prototype drives have observed a small apparent thrust, while other prototypes did not show thrust, and no prototype has been successfully tested more than once.[2] Many theoretical physicists and commentators have labelled the device "impossible" and stated that observed thrust may be due to measurement errors.[3]
So to take it as read that this thing works in a total contravention of conservation of momentum... I wouldn't hold my breath.

Again, I'd be happy as hell if the thing worked. But nobody has demonstrated that it does, and even if it does provide thrust, it might be as simple as energy leakage driving it.

Scientists in Finland have proposed a possible explanation of this phenomenon involving the propagation of microwave photons leaking from the closed metal cavity and thereby producing an exhaust momentum, satisfying the classical action-reaction principle.[78] This explanation relies on the wave-particle duality of electromagnetic radiation, postulating that the stochastic phases of the microwaves will (with some probability) result in destructive interference between microwaves which cancels their electromagnetic fields but allows continued propagation of the microwave photon pairs, generating net thrust consistent with the impulse-momentum theorem depending on the asymmetric shape of the cavity.[78][79][80][81]

The observed thrust of experimental results has been argued to exceed the maximum efficiency of a perfectly collimated photon rocket, comprised between 3.33 and 6.67 µN/kW.[82] However, the paper follows on White's idea of a degradable quantum vacuum for effective pair production,[citation needed] and Lewis's original concept of the photon which would be the conserved entity of nature, not its carried energy:[83] The authors argue that the environment modifies photon energy and that pairing of photons within the electromagnetic energy density gradient of a resonant cavity would cause a shift down in energy, and the loss of electromagnetic potential becomes available for thrust, so according to the authors the level of energy of the paired photon when it escapes the cavity and the associated thrust efficiency remain an open question. The authors also argue that the cavity walls become transparent for the photon pair when it forms; as it has no associated electromagnetic field, it escapes the cavity to sparser surroundings.[78]
RF resonant cavity thruster - Wikipedia
 

DROBNJAK

Paranormal Adept
NASA confirmed positive results, China wants to launch it into space, Germans got small but positive thrust. What more is needed?
 

marduk

quelling chaos since 2352BC
NASA confirmed positive results, China wants to launch it into space, Germans got small but positive thrust. What more is needed?
Their results said ‘maybe.’

The thrust was far smaller than hypothesized, may have been the result of waste heat, and was very close to the error bars on the test rig.

Again, I hope it works, because propellantless thrust would be awesome.

But results that contravene the understood basic laws of conservation tend to turn out to be anything but.

Fingers crossed In this one.
 

DROBNJAK

Paranormal Adept
You just need to check the latest EMDrive news. NASA confirmed thrust, China confirmed thrust and wants to put it on satellite, Germany confirmed thrust, British Ministry of Defense wants to launch research program.
 

marduk

quelling chaos since 2352BC
You just need to check the latest EMDrive news. NASA confirmed thrust, China confirmed thrust and wants to put it on satellite, Germany confirmed thrust, British Ministry of Defense wants to launch research program.
I just read NASA's paper again before I posted.

It said what I just said and called for more research.

China hasn't confirmed anything except their original findings in 2012 (unless you're talking about their propaganda stuff with no data behind it), and nobody has proved the thrust isn't anything more than simple waste heat. It's a very, very small effect obtained by throwing very, very large amounts of energy around. We're talking one millinewton of thrust for a kilowatt of energy. It's hard to account for all the possibilities, including just heat.

Again, I hope it works. I know people are excited about it.

But most of the folks I've talked to or seen published in academia are still thinking that this is not reaction less propulsion at all, but more likely something else. The quantum tunnelling effect for example is a neat one, but would still allow for conservation of momentum.

All I am advising is caution on this one. Cautious optimism is fine. Thinking we're about to use it to cruise around the solar system and it's a done deal is another.
 

blowfish

Whittingham
On the subject of Chinese Academic research papers a element which must be taken into account with a number of claims in advances discoveries and in technology. 80% of China’s clinical trial data are fraudulent, investigation finds | The BMJ and is not the only state which grants and fraud seem to muddy the institutions. BBC News - Chinese academia ghost-writing 'widespread' It seems Dr Fry could of been muddy the interviews later on as he had some visitors of the human kind and no doubt was on the watched list and remember it was the Cold War.
 


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