Cosmonauts and the Space Whisper

[DaveM]

Agreed on salvaging civility.

I read some of the church's literature and other belief oriented perspectives that bring biblical quotes into the discussion as well. I'm not sure what to make of the way quotes from the cosmonauts are presented to us here in the west. Seems to me they get turned into a bunch of apostles or something:

and we ultimately translate what they saw/experienced into a confirmation of a Christian worldview. That part I find to be a little bizarre and confabulated like this:

But the idea of presence seems a natural consequence of particiating in these frontiers of human experience. They are pushing the boundaries of human leadership and team experiences. Given how many of the astronauts have died horribly during missions I feel that this new human spacefaring tribe is still in its infancy of cultural development. Many have come back 'touched.' They are an isolated, fragile branch of humanity doing awesome things. They've been biologically rearranged what with their changing heart shapes, peeling fingernails, bone density, muscle issues, increased likelihood if different defects - makes one wonder if we were really meant to escape gravity? Maybe that new human experience has put us in contact with something genuinely new, and on the fringes of our own perceptual capacities?

Or maybe we get so disoriented by the this new frontier that we start to hear voices - sounds like an evolved self-defense, survivalist trait. You have to coach yourself into disciplined mindfulness up in space. I'd be hearing all kinds of voices if I was up there, and probably talking to myself out loud each minute to stay calm.

I found it somewhat bizarre that a church organization would report that Soviet Cosmonauts saw angels in space. The Nexus article brought up the fact that the cosmonauts were basically atheists at that time, so if some entity chose that form it was strange choice.

 

[Burnt State]

I found it somewhat bizarre that a church organization would report that Soviet Cosmonauts saw angels in space. The Nexus article brought up the fact that the cosmonauts were basically atheists at that time, so if some entity chose that form it was strange choice.

Well if you are going to report on celestial beings you'll probably use whatever spin suits you best. From what I could find, the original article about the cosmonauts being bathed in a blinding orange light that gave way to 8o foot long smiling creatures with wings looking at them through the portholes, comes from World Weekly News. They, in turn, are basing their article on a French interview with a Russian scientist(?) and there are in fact no real direct quotes from any cosmonauts. As is often the case, the information passed on down the line is second and third hand and subsequently well manipulated for entertainment purposes or confirmation of someone's god.
http://www.ignaciodarnaude.com/avis...5,Salyut-7 Soviet Astronauts,FSR1998V43N4.pdf
Does the Nexus article have actual direct interviews with the cosmonauts or are these also related quotes?

 

[Constance]

The idea of hearing voices in your head is treated differently from culture to culture. In Ethiopia not hearing voices is considered abnormal whereas in North America if you tell people you hear voices you're likely to get incarcerated or forced onto meds.

Learning to Live With the Voices in Your Head - The Atlantic

The whole concept of auditory hallucinations and inner voices is much more common than we think, especially among children. Perhaps under stress or while climbing mounting that inner monologue may feel like it's coming from somewhere else, but perhaps that knowledge of personal info points to a simpler point of origin for such voices.

"The whole concept of auditory hallucinations and inner voices is much more common than we think, especially among children. Perhaps under stress or while climbing mounting that inner monologue may feel like it's coming from somewhere else, but perhaps that knowledge of personal info points to a simpler point of origin for such voices."

And perhaps not. I think most of us are interested in pursuing the second possibility, and if so it seems clear that we need to begin, not with what passes for explanation in currently dominant materialist/physicalist presuppositions in science and philosophy, but by surveying as much as we can of accounts of anomalous experiences in order to recognize the extent of the database of these experiences. The quantum physicist Henry Stapp has provided many scientific and philosophical papers laying out an interpretation of such experiences in terms of quantum mechanics and quantum field theory. While these papers are daunting for us non-physicists, they are worth reading to the extent we can because they challenge the reductive physicalist presuppositions (based in classical physics) that incline us to accept reductive 'explanations' for recurring phenomena that clearly challenge reductivism. Here are two links, the first to a scientifically clarifying paper by Stapp that is accessible to non-physicists and the second to a list of papers by Stapp gathered in an online bibliography of papers in philosophy of consciousness and mind.

Stapp, “Quantum Interactive Dualism: The Libet and Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen Causal Anomalies” at CORRECTED LINK: http://escholarship.org/uc/item/52c7q39m

STAPP, PHIL PAPERS http://philpapers.org/rec/STAHPS

I'm going to copy this post to the Consciousness and the Paranormal thread, where we might explore the significance of Stapp's work to that thread's original dual focus, long neglected while we surveyed a range of perspectives from philosophy of mind applied to the interdisciplinary contemporary field of consciousness studies.

 

[DaveM]

Well if you are going to report on celestial beings you'll probably use whatever spin suits you best. From what I could find, the original article about the cosmonauts being bathed in a blinding orange light that gave way to 8o foot long smiling creatures with wings looking at them through the portholes, comes from World Weekly News. They, in turn, are basing their article on a French interview with a Russian scientist(?) and there are in fact no real direct quotes from any cosmonauts. As is often the case, the information passed on down the line is second and third hand and subsequently well manipulated for entertainment purposes or confirmation of someone's god.
http://www.ignaciodarnaude.com/avistamientos_ovnis/Creighton,Winged Beings 1985,Salyut-7 Soviet Astronauts,FSR1998V43N4.pdf
Does the Nexus article have actual direct interviews with the cosmonauts or are these also related quotes?

I went back to the Nexus article by Paul Stonehill. He reports that the 1984 Salyut incident was reported in the Russian magazine NLO (issue 9, 1998). It said the space station was engulfed by a large orange gas cloud. The cosmonauts also had the impression that the gas had entered the craft. When the cosmonauts went to the portholes they saw what looked to be seven heavenly angels. They had huge wings and bright haloes. The angels had smiles on their faces. This all took place for ten minutes.

When the cosmonauts returned to earth they were tested for physical and mental health. All were found to be well and of sound mind. At that time the Politburo made the report of seeing angels secret. This took place before the perestroika period.

Other than crediting the NLO magazine there were no other sources mentioned.

 

[Burnt State]

I went back to the Nexus article by Paul Stonehill. He reports that the 1984 Salyut incident was reported in the Russian magazine NLO (issue 9, 1998).

The weekly world news article is October 22, 1985. So you can see how the idea of 'facts' surrounding this specific story is questionable from French tabloids to American tabloids to a Russian mag and then all the web versions that followed. For me this is the root of many of the problems of paranormal discourse: so much of it is so far removed from a legitimate primary source that it becomes really easy to often blame everything on the nazis, including the fictitious antarctic bases currently in operation.

I still think the idea of exploring our relationship to our inner voices is a healthy pursuit, but I don't think starting with anomalous and unverified evidence is the place to start. Perhaps using what actually has been documented medically, along with sme good cross cultural comparisons would then set the stage to properly measure those anomalous stories once you get a primary source on it.

 

[Constance]

The weekly world news article is October 22, 1985. So you can see how the idea of 'facts' surrounding this specific story is questionable from French tabloids to American tabloids to a Russian mag and then all the web versions that followed. For me this is the root of many of the problems of paranormal discourse: so much of it is so far removed from a legitimate primary source that it becomes really easy to often blame everything on the nazis, including the fictitious antarctic bases currently in operation.

But surely you recognize the general suppression of research into anomalous human experiences (in addition to the lack of institutional support for it) in the last several hundred years? It seems to me that that is the root of the current situation in which we come across only traces of such experiences (and, at best, traces of whatever timely research and reporting of them was done where and when they occurred). "Paranormal discourse," by which you seem to mean the popular discussion of anomalous experiences conducted on the internet, does not have to be satisfied with what reaches the public in popular publications. Anyone genuinely interested can pursue published research by parapsychologists, psychical researchers, and paranormalists available online and through libraries and their interlibrary loan systems. It will be more difficult for those of us who speak and read only English to locate written research in these subject matters in Russia and elsewhere, but even that is not impossible. There has, in fact, been significant experimentation in these fields in the former USSR for many decades. It was Russian research into psi capabilities beginning in the 1930s that finally reached North America in the 1960s and inspired military and national security agencies' interest in pursuing such research at the SRI. It isn't the case that there is no body of research to explore; it's unfortunately the case that doing that research demands great investments of time. Steve -- @smcder -- has posted innumerable links to academic parapsychological research accomplished in this country in both Part I and Part II of the Consciousness and the Paranormal thread. We'll be doing much more of that in the CP thread in the future. {'Nuff said, and sorry to sound so preachy.}

I still think the idea of exploring our relationship to our inner voices is a healthy pursuit, but I don't think starting with anomalous and unverified evidence is the place to start. Perhaps using what actually has been documented medically, along with some good cross cultural comparisons would then set the stage to properly measure those anomalous stories once you get a primary source on it.

We won't find much in the medical literature concerning anomalous experiences before Pim von Lommel's and others' enormous contributions to the data and evidence concerning NDEs. That subject and the medical response to it have made a major difference in our time, and we can expect it to lead to wider explorations of what are called 'para-normal' experiences. There is also the significant academic history of investigations of reincarnation reports by young children undertaken by Ian Stephenson and his international colleagues, all archived at the University of Virginia, reported in books and articles, and available in part on the net. A century and a half of the archives of the SPR's psychical research are also available online. We're in a stage of 'creeping open-mindedness' these days, and we don't have far to look for more evidential reports than we can possibly read. In the meantime, recent popular reporting such as the Nexus article that @Dave M. provided serves a significant purpose, increasing our awareness of paranormal events we hadn't heard about and providing us with additional directions in which to pursue investigative reports about the paranormal.

 

[Constance]

This review of Mysterious Sky: Soviet UFO Phenomenon by Philip Mantle and Paul Stonehill includes a description of the event reported in the Nexus article posted by @Dave M.

UFO RESEARCH QUEENSLAND | REVIEWS

 

[Wade]

the thing that knda bothers me about the seeing angels w/wings is that to me this comes across as a construct the mind. Let's say for the benefit of a doubt the sightings were of spiritual beings. Why would spirits need wings? I'm not really up on my biblical knowledge but aren't the inclusions of wings on angels a later addition of renisaance artists or something and over the centuries the inclusion of wings on angels (or spirit beings) have become sort of a meme, not unlike the grey alien meme, maybe their appearance jives with what would be expected?

 

[DaveM]

But surely you recognize the general suppression of research into anomalous human experiences (in addition to the lack of institutional support for it) in the last several hundred years? It seems to me that that is the root of the current situation in which we come across only traces of such experiences (and, at best, traces of whatever timely research and reporting of them was done where and when they occurred). "Paranormal discourse," by which you seem to mean the popular discussion of anomalous experiences conducted on the internet, does not have to be satisfied with what reaches the public in popular publications. Anyone genuinely interested can pursue published research by parapsychologists, psychical researchers, and paranormalists available online and through libraries and their interlibrary loan systems. It will be more difficult for those of us who speak and read only English to locate written research in these subject matters in Russia and elsewhere, but even that is not impossible. There has, in fact, been significant experimentation in these fields in the former USSR for many decades. It was Russian research into psi capabilities beginning in the 1930s that finally reached North America in the 1960s and inspired military and national security agencies' interest in pursuing such research at the SRI. It isn't the case that there is no body of research to explore; it's unfortunately the case that doing that research demands great investments of time. Steve -- @smcder -- has posted innumerable links to academic parapsychological research accomplished in this country in both Part I and Part II of the Consciousness and the Paranormal thread. We'll be doing much more of that in the CP thread in the future. {'Nuff said, and sorry to sound so preachy.}



We won't find much in the medical literature concerning anomalous experiences before Pim von Lommel's and others' enormous contributions to the data and evidence concerning NDEs. That subject and the medical response to it have made a major difference in our time, and we can expect it to lead to wider explorations of what are called 'para-normal' experiences. There is also the significant academic history of investigations of reincarnation reports by young children undertaken by Ian Stephenson and his international colleagues, all archived at the University of Virginia, reported in books and articles, and available in part on the net. A century and a half of the archives of the SPR's psychical research are also available online. We're in a stage of 'creeping open-mindedness' these days, and we don't have far to look for more evidential reports than we can possibly read. In the meantime, recent popular reporting such as the Nexus article that @Dave M. provided serves a significant purpose, increasing our awareness of paranormal events we hadn't heard about and providing us with additional directions in which to pursue investigative reports about the paranormal.

It's so true. Those of us who live in the West (US) are so poorly informed about paranormal events in the rest of the world. I stumbled across Nexus, published Australia, in the local Barnes and Noble. It does have interesting articles about ufos and the paranormal from time to time.

 

[DaveM]

the thing that knda bothers me about the seeing angels w/wings is that to me this comes across as a construct the mind. Let's say for the benefit of a doubt the sightings were of spiritual beings. Why would spirits need wings? I'm not really up on my biblical knowledge but aren't the inclusions of wings on angels a later addition of renisaance artists or something and over the centuries the inclusion of wings on angels (or spirit beings) have become sort of a meme, not unlike the grey alien meme, maybe their appearance jives with what would be expected?

When I read that these cosmonauts (all of them) saw 'angels', I wondered if some entity had probed human minds and came up with a construct pleasing to most humans. Most individuals would think that an angel had wings. No matter what, someone went to a lot of trouble trying to convince those cosmonauts.

 

[smcder]

"The whole concept of auditory hallucinations and inner voices is much more common than we think, especially among children. Perhaps under stress or while climbing mounting that inner monologue may feel like it's coming from somewhere else, but perhaps that knowledge of personal info points to a simpler point of origin for such voices."

And perhaps not. I think most of us are interested in pursuing the second possibility, and if so it seems clear that we need to begin, not with what passes for explanation in currently dominant materialist/physicalist presuppositions in science and philosophy, but by surveying as much as we can of accounts of anomalous experiences in order to recognize the extent of the database of these experiences. The quantum physicist Henry Stapp has provided many scientific and philosophical papers laying out an interpretation of such experiences in terms of quantum mechanics and quantum field theory. While these papers are daunting for us non-physicists, they are worth reading to the extent we can because they challenge the reductive physicalist presuppositions (based in classical physics) that incline us to accept reductive 'explanations' for recurring phenomena that clearly challenge reductivism. Here are two links, the first to a scientifically clarifying paper by Stapp that is accessible to non-physicists and the second to a list of papers by Stapp gathered in an online bibliography of papers in philosophy of consciousness and mind.

Stapp, “Quantum Interactive Dualism: The Libet and Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen Causal Anomalies” at CORRECTED LINK: http://escholarship.org/uc/item/52c7q39m

STAPP, PHIL PAPERS http://philpapers.org/rec/STAHPS

I'm going to copy this post to the Consciousness and the Paranormal thread, where we might explore the significance of Stapp's work to that thread's original dual focus, long neglected while we surveyed a range of perspectives from philosophy of mind applied to the interdisciplinary contemporary field of consciousness studies.

Hear, here.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Burnt State]

In the meantime, recent popular reporting such as the Nexus article that @Dave M. provided serves a significant purpose, increasing our awareness of paranormal events we hadn't heard about and providing us with additional directions in which to pursue investigative reports about the paranormal.

And I would concur if it wasn't for the fact that the article in question that originates from a Russian UFO mag has no direct quotes from anyone, no sources and can be traced back to the Weekly World News a decade earlier as one of the earliest publications of information related to this story. Valuable paranormal discourse needs that primary source material before any investigation to its anomalous merits can begin, no? Because now this story, and most of the discussion, is concerned with myth making more than the documenting of ignored, but prestigious, rare events. We coud continue to explore its many possibilities and how it weaves in and out of faith-based belief systems, but to what end beyond inflating those angelic wings mentioned in all the writing around this event?

BTW the original N.L.O. article translated, along with the WWN earlier version are both in that link I posted above.

From the original source of the story comes this piece of conviction: The 1985 piece identified these as “gigantic angels”, and the 1986 revisited the supposed sighting saying that “Reports that Soviet cosmonauts sighted a band of angels on a space mission last summer have been disputed by a Russian researcher . . Dr Yury Manakov said the cosmonauts initially referred to the beings as angels simply because they had wings. But now that all the facts are in, he said there can be no doubt: the creatures descended from a race of humanoids who shed their bodies after reaching the top of the evolutionary ladder”.

I'd be fascinated to know what facts and where they came from that convinced Yury this was all about local evolutionary trends.

 

[smcder]

And I would concur if it wasn't for the fact that the article in question that originates from a Russian UFO mag has no direct quotes from anyone, no sources and can be traced back to the Weekly World News a decade earlier as one of the earliest publications of information related to this story. Valuable paranormal discourse needs that primary source material before any investigation to its anomalous merits can begin, no? Because now this story, and most of the discussion, is concerned with myth making more than the documenting of ignored, but prestigious, rare events. We coud continue to explore its many possibilities and how it weaves in and out of faith-based belief systems, but to what end beyond inflating those angelic wings mentioned in all the writing around this event?

BTW the original N.L.O. article translated, along with the WWN earlier version are both in that link I posted above.

From the original source of the story comes this piece of conviction: The 1985 piece identified these as “gigantic angels”, and the 1986 revisited the supposed sighting saying that “Reports that Soviet cosmonauts sighted a band of angels on a space mission last summer have been disputed by a Russian researcher . . Dr Yury Manakov said the cosmonauts initially referred to the beings as angels simply because they had wings. But now that all the facts are in, he said there can be no doubt: the creatures descended from a race of humanoids who shed their bodies after reaching the top of the evolutionary ladder”.

I'd be fascinated to know what facts and where they came from that convinced Yury this was all about local evolutionary trends.

"In the meantime, recent popular reporting such as the Nexus article that @Dave M. provided serves a significant purpose, increasing our awareness of paranormal events we hadn't heard about and providing us with additional directions in which to pursue investigative reports about the paranormal."

It looks like the Nexus article has done exactly that.

"We coud continue to explore its many possibilities and how it weaves in and out of faith-based belief systems, but to what end beyond inflating those angelic wings mentioned in all the writing around this event?"

No, I think there's more to it than that as a subject in it's own right, but what I took from Constance's post was to move the discussion to peer reviewed research.

I spent quite a bit of time reviewing the research collected here:

http://deanradin.com/evidence/evidence.htm

In terms of experimental design, statistical interpretation and response from critics - including several lengthy exchanges with skeptics. As a result, experimental design is often tighter in parapsychology than in psychology.


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[Constance]

Burnt dear, if your middle name isn't 'Suspicious', it should be.

 

[Jeff Davis]

Well Jeff, I think your reply tells me everything I need to know about you.

Listen Dave, this whole article is old hat. If you had any real familiarity with the paranormal relevant information that I originally pointed you to via my initial response that you started whining about, which did in FACT directly relate to the subject matter that YOU attempted to spam here, you would have known that. Instead,you self importantly made the choice to attack my character calling me a cheapskate and pretending that you had some reasonable, arrogant, pernicious, and vain right to contend that I felt that everything in life *should* be free. All because I pointed out that you were directing members here to a "pay to read" article in an effort to elicit conversation on a forum whose content is FREE. That's called SPAM Dave, but in your own lofty mind you were too bent on teaching me one of life's great lessons. You sir deserve your own ill mentality, and indeed your ignorance.

What you NEED to know about me Dave is that I don't take shit (insults hurled like puke) from novices like YOU. Now go back to your old as the hills hallucinations in space that have been discussed everywhere from here to mysterious universe and back about a half a million times, and even choose to pay to do it. I don't care. Just please don't call me a cheapskate, or pretend that you somehow are more so familiar with life's little deficits of responsibility again you arrogant twit. I've spent as much money as you any day of the friggin' week supporting this very forum and show.

Up until this very thread, the ONLY thing I have ever heard you express here on this forum is complaints about the show either having too many commercials, or some other sore nitpicking nonsense. Would you like a little cheese with that whine Sir?

 

[Constance]

ps, are we sure that Dr Yury Manakov wasn't being facetious?

 

[Constance]

Listen Dave, this whole article is old hat. If you had any real familiarity with the paranormal relevant information that I originally pointed you to via my initial response that you started whining about, which did in FACT directly relate to the subject matter that YOU attempted to spam here, you would have known that. Instead,you self importantly made the choice to attack my character calling me a cheapskate and pretending that you had some reasonable, arrogant, pernicious, and vain right to contend that I felt that everything in life *should* be free. All because I pointed out that you were directing members here to a "pay to read" article in an effort to elicit conversation on a forum whose content is FREE. That's called SPAM Dave, but in your own lofty mind you were too bent on teaching me one of life's great lessons. You sir deserve your own ill mentality, and indeed your ignorance.

What you NEED to know about me Dave is that I don't take shit (insults hurled like puke) from novices like YOU. Now go back to your old as the hills hallucinations in space that have been discussed everywhere from here to mysterious universe and back about a half a million times, and even choose to pay to do it. I don't care. Just please don't call me a cheapskate, or pretend that you somehow are more so familiar with life's little deficits of responsibility again you arrogant twit. I've spent as much money as you any day of the friggin' week supporting this very forum and show.

Up until this very thread, the ONLY thing I have ever heard you express here on this forum is complaints about the show either having too many commercials, or some other sore nitpicking nonsense. Would you like a little cheese with that whine Sir?

Where's the dislike button? You're being abusive, Jeff. Find someplace to cool down please.

 

[DaveM]

Listen Dave, this whole article is old hat. If you had any real familiarity with the paranormal relevant information that I originally pointed you to via my initial response that you started whining about, which did in FACT directly relate to the subject matter that YOU attempted to spam here, you would have known that. Instead,you self importantly made the choice to attack my character calling me a cheapskate and pretending that you had some reasonable, arrogant, pernicious, and vain right to contend that I felt that everything in life *should* be free. All because I pointed out that you were directing members here to a "pay to read" article in an effort to elicit conversation on a forum whose content is FREE. That's called SPAM Dave, but in your own lofty mind you were too bent on teaching me one of life's great lessons. You sir deserve your own ill mentality, and indeed your ignorance.

What you NEED to know about me Dave is that I don't take shit (insults hurled like puke) from novices like YOU. Now go back to your old as the hills hallucinations in space that have been discussed everywhere from here to mysterious universe and back about a half a million times, and even choose to pay to do it. I don't care. Just please don't call me a cheapskate, or pretend that you somehow are more so familiar with life's little deficits of responsibility again you arrogant twit. I've spent as much money as you any day of the friggin' week supporting this very forum and show.

Up until this very thread, the ONLY thing I have ever heard you express here on this forum is complaints about the show either having too many commercials, or some other sore nitpicking nonsense. Would you like a little cheese with that whine Sir?

Wow Jeff, where to start? I am not sure where you got the idea I have complained about too many commercials. I can tell you I have NEVER brought up that subject. When listening to the podcasts I just generally skip through the commercials. They have no effects on me one way or the other. The producers of the Paracast have to make money and I can appreciate that.

I won't get into a tit for tat argument with you. I reported the Nexus article as spam. There you go, you win the argument. Happy? However, it seems like there has been plenty of discussion on said 'spam' article and I find you are the only one complaining. Dave

By the way Jeff... telling me to 'go fuck myself', calling me an arrogant twit, and whiner. Really??

 

[Jeff Davis]

Where's the dislike button? You're being abusive, Jeff. Find someplace to cool down please.

Where's the Constance button exactly? If they're were one, the self righteous bell would ring LOUD and CLEAR when it was pushed.

 

[Jeff Davis]

Wow Jeff, where to start? I am not sure where you got the idea I have complained about too many commercials. I can tell you I have NEVER brought up that subject. When listening to the podcasts I just generally skip through the commercials. They have no effects on me one way or the other. The producers of the Paracast have to make money and I can appreciate that.

I won't get into a tit for tat argument with you. I reported the Nexus article as spam. There you go, you win the argument. Happy? However, it seems like there has been plenty of discussion on said 'spam' article and I find you are the only one complaining. Dave

By the way Jeff... telling me to 'go fuck myself', calling me an arrogant wit, and whiner, really??

Where to start? Well, you could start by apologizing for calling me a cheapskate just because I asked you to provide information directly concerning what you wanted to discuss here. You could also apologize for suggesting that both Michael Persinger and the theoretically supported delusional effects on those that suffered their fate at the Dyatlov Pass had no relevance for what phenomena you had eluded to via the pay to play article on Nexus. Now you know how it feels to have false accusations heaped upon you in undeserved fashion, even ridiculously. I can apologize to you for making such accusations as you had complained about the show's long running commercials. Can you do the same and apologize to me for the insulting and insinuating mistaken remarks that you have made concerning my informational input and characterized opinions?

BTW, Michael Persinger is famous for inducing similar effects as the cosmonauts experienced in his lab bound test subjects. No one knows what those at the Dyatlov Pass imagined precisely, but one thing is for certain, it was enough to make them rip their way out of a strong tent in the middle of the night and run stark naked through the snow into oblivious hypothermic ruination amid other even worse horrible fates. Electromagnetic influence as well as Infra sound have been accredited with the production of both vivid audio and visual mass hallucinations. The intelligence communities have been utilizing transmitted remote induced hypnosis since 30s 0r 40s. There are times when natural circumstances can induce similar mass effect.