Consciousness and Magic

[AtheistAlien]

I agree.

 

[Tyger]

I agree.

About what?

 

[AtheistAlien]

first post.

 

[Soupie]

I hear what you are saying and I agree somewhat. All that is or can be experienced by an individual is the individual's mind itself. However, I think the thought vs. physical is a false dichotomy. "Thoughts" are physical events occurring in the brain. The "material" that the brain is composed of comprises the thoughts within it. A (the real world in which we exist and have our being) does not equal B (the illusionary or perhaps more correctly hallucinatory world experienced by the mind) not because it is of a different substance, but because it is an incomplete and largely inaccurate representational model, but its made of the same "stuff" whatever that actually is outside of our perceptional limitation of it.

Wish I would have seen this post 4 years ago!

 

[Tyger]

Wish I would have seen this post 4 years ago!

I've just spent the last hour reading the early pages of this thread - ah, the memories of trolls and old politics on this site!

Still some excellent conversation. I'll bring some of it forward.

 

[Tyger]

I am placing this here since it deals with a demonstration of the idea that time is relative and individual, mainly as an example of what we think of as unwavering not being quite so. In fact the physical universe is more 'uncertain' than 'certain' as we tend to believe.

Is Time Travel Possible?

TEXT: Is Time Travel really Possible? In this clip Professor Brian Cox - a confirmed Doctor Who fan - undertakes an experiment with a light showing that time moves faster for a stationary clock than a moving clock, which appears to move more slowly over the same length of time. His conclusion is that time travel is possible, but only into the future!

 

[Tyger]

Wish I would have seen this post 4 years ago!

@Soupie What would you have responded?

 

[Soupie]

@Soupie What would you have responded?

I'm not sure what I would have responded at the time, as I was just naively dipping my toes into the mind-body problem and the related hard problem of consciousness (thanks to @smcder at the CAP thread).

Currently, I would say, after exploring the topic for 5 years, that the proposed relationship between mind and body that TO describes is a viable resolution to the MBP and the HP.

It took me 5 years to find/arrive at the picture TO articulates above—which in 5 years I haven't seen articulated quite like that; and to see it articulated so plainly and concisely was a bit shocking.

Mind–body problem - Wikipedia

Hard problem of consciousness - Wikipedia

 

[smcder]

I'm not sure what I would have responded at the time, as I was just naively dipping my toes into the mind-body problem and the related hard problem of consciousness (thanks to @smcder at the CAP thread).

Currently, I would say, after exploring the topic for 5 years, that the proposed relationship between mind and body that TO describes is a viable resolution to the MBP and the HP.

It took me 5 years to find/arrive at the picture TO articulates above—which in 5 years I haven't seen articulated quite like that; and to see it articulated so plainly and concisely was a bit shocking.

Mind–body problem - Wikipedia

Hard problem of consciousness - Wikipedia

I reposted this to the consciousness and paranormal thread for discussion. If that's not ok I'll remove my posts there.

 

[Tyger]

I hear what you are saying and I agree somewhat. All that is or can be experienced by an individual is the individual's mind itself.

Disagree. Or maybe agree in the sense that all is filtered through the 'mind'. Depends on what one means by 'mind' methinks.

However, I think the thought vs. physical is a false dichotomy. "Thoughts" are physical events occurring in the brain.

This is a biggie. We perhaps can see electrical traces of thought activity but to say that a thought originates as a 'physical event in the brain' is a leap. IMO.

The "material" that the brain is composed of comprises the thoughts within it.

Never heard this proposition. It's a major assumption I could never 'take on'.

A (the real world in which we exist and have our being) does not equal B (the illusionary or perhaps more correctly hallucinatory world experienced by the mind) not because it is of a different substance, but because it is an incomplete and largely inaccurate representational model,

Totally disagree with these two propositions.

but its made of the same "stuff" whatever that actually is outside of our perceptional limitation of it.

What? How do we know that?

 

[Tyger]

"The most beautiful emotion we can experience is the mystical. It is the power of all true art and science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead. To know that what is impenetrable to us really exists, manifesting itself as the highest wisdom and the most radiant beauty, which our dull faculties can comprehend only in their most primitive forms—this knowledge, this feeling, is at the center of true religiousness. In this sense, and in this sense only, I belong to the rank of devoutly religious men." ~ Albert Einstein

 

[Tyger]

“A child can teach an adult three things: to be happy for no reason, to always be busy with something, and to know how to demand with all his might that which he desires.” ~ Paulo Coelho

 

[Constance]

Reincarnation Past Life Evidence PROOF Children Documentary Discovery BBC National Geographic

@Tyger, reading the above post earlier in this revived thread I watched the video about the Leininger child's evidence of reincarnation and then was connected to this video with Greg Braden, which is excellent in my opinion.

Law of Attraction Money Meditation Love Success Story Affirmations Documentary Relationships Quotes


I have to add that I have trouble connecting the insights and significance of what Braden speaks to with the more trivial and self-centered concerns addressed in much of the 'manifestation' literature focused on goals summarized in the heading that accompanies this video: "Law of Attraction Money Meditation Love Success Story Affirmations Documentary Relationships Quotes."

 

[Constance]

In other words, personal wealth, power, material 'success', attempts to fulfill selfish individual desires pale in significance for me compared with the lessons to be learned from the Eastern traditions from which Braden receives his inspiration.

 

[Tyger]

Video with Greg Braden - is excellent in my opinion.
Law of Attraction Money Meditation Love Success Story Affirmations Documentary Relationships Quotes
I have to add that I have trouble connecting the insights and significance of what Braden speaks to with the more trivial and self-centered concerns addressed in much of the 'manifestation' literature focused on goals summarized in the heading that accompanies this video: "Law of Attraction Money Meditation Love Success Story Affirmations Documentary Relationships Quotes."

@Constance There is a (new) thread I've started titled Consciousness and Manifestation - would you like to take this conversation over there? LINK: Consciousness and Manifestation

I could answer here but then it would get cumbersome, splitting the topic between two threads.

In other words, personal wealth, power, material 'success', attempts to fulfill selfish individual desires pale in significance for me compared with the lessons to be learned from the Eastern traditions from which Braden receives his inspiration.

Same with this post - which is very much relevant to the Consciousness and Manifestation thread:
LINK: Consciousness and Manifestation

@Constance If you bring these observations over to that thread I would engage with you on the issues you bring.

 

[Constance]

I could but it sounds like a lot of work moving three posts. Why not let the two threads overlap, or combine them since their subjects appear to overlap?

 

[Tyger]

There seems to be some discussion over on the Consciousness and Paranormal thread regarding this post from Trained Observer on January 17, 2014 that @Soupie quoted and responded to.

@Constance , you are saying that this post below from Trained Observer - is it this post? - is a near identical posting made by Michael Allen? Where is that near identical post by Michael Allen? Can you supply?

I hear what you are saying and I agree somewhat. All that is or can be experienced by an individual is the individual's mind itself. However, I think the thought vs. physical is a false dichotomy. "Thoughts" are physical events occurring in the brain. The "material" that the brain is composed of comprises the thoughts within it. A (the real world in which we exist and have our being) does not equal B (the illusionary or perhaps more correctly hallucinatory world experienced by the mind) not because it is of a different substance, but because it is an incomplete and largely inaccurate representational model, but its made of the same "stuff" whatever that actually is outside of our perceptional limitation of it.

Wish I would have seen this post 4 years ago!

Both Trained Observer and Michael Allen are males from Dallas TX. You are suggesting Trained Observer returned to post as Michael Allen? But didn't these two posters overlap? I suppose they still could be the same person.

 

[Tyger]

I could but it sounds like a lot of work moving three posts. Why not let the two threads overlap, or combine them since their subjects appear to overlap?

The subject matter does not overlap. This magic thread is not a discussion of manifestation the way the other thread is. There is a great deal of context given on the Manifestation thread that I would have to pull over here, effectively derailing this thread.

I can copy-and-paste your two posts to over there on the Manifestation thread. Not a lot of work for me to do that. Shall I?

EDIT: I have done the transfer.

 

[Constance]

There seems to be some discussion over on the Consciousness and Paranormal thread regarding this post from Trained Observer on January 17, 2014 that @Soupie quoted and responded to.

@Constance , you are saying that this post below from Trained Observer - is it this post? - is a near identical posting made by Michael Allen? Where is that near identical post by Michael Allen? Can you supply?

Both Trained Observer and Michael Allen are males from Dallas TX. You are suggesting Trained Observer returned to post as Michael Allen? But didn't these two posters overlap? I suppose they still could be the same person.

Don't worry about it. Seems to be some confusion on my part.