Can't possibly believe Miley

[Tony2007]

I just listened to the Michael Miley segment of last night's show, and while I think he makes some good points concerning a connection between UFO phenomenon and certain paranormal/energetic events, I can't find one thing to believe about any of the stories he told. The story about two guys who watched some UFOs engulf fighter jets while on mescaline is laughable, and I just don't buy the fact that there was a third person present who wasn't on mescaline who qualified what the other two stoners saw. I'm supposed to believe a second-hand account of what two people on drugs witnessed? I don't think so. If this guy was a friend of the other two, chances are he had done some kind of psychadelia himself at some point, which often times produces hallucinations even after the initial high from the drug is over.

And then he talks about a "deeply transformative experience" the three of them had because of this. If that's the case, let's get one of them on to talk about it firsthand. Preferably when they're not high.

And then Miley drops this on air, "I feel that psychadelics first off open the person, secondly charge them up, thirdly allow them to... generate higher level faculties perception..."

You'd have to be brain-dead not to make a connection between the story he told earlier and this statement. I'm also highly skeptical of his methodology of collecting information when he doesn't even follow up the event at the "party" with a formal interview to try and get the facts straight and record it more officially.

I'm glad you address the level of skepticism on air... but you also have to admit that on pure believability, you'd have to ignore a lot of common sense (even when it comes to UFO events) to believe what Miley said.

 

[interestedINitall]

I just listened to the Michael Miley segment of last night's show, and while I think he makes some good points concerning a connection between UFO phenomenon and certain paranormal/energetic events, I can't find one thing to believe about any of the stories he told. The story about two guys who watched some UFOs engulf fighter jets while on mescaline is laughable, and I just don't buy the fact that there was a third person present who wasn't on mescaline who qualified what the other two stoners saw. I'm supposed to believe a second-hand account of what two people on drugs witnessed? I don't think so. If this guy was a friend of the other two, chances are he had done some kind of psychadelia himself at some point, which often times produces hallucinations even after the initial high from the drug is over.

And then he talks about a "deeply transformative experience" the three of them had because of this. If that's the case, let's get one of them on to talk about it firsthand. Preferably when they're not high.

And then Miley drops this on air, "I feel that psychadelics first off open the person, secondly charge them up, thirdly allow them to... generate higher level faculties perception..."

You'd have to be brain-dead not to make a connection between the story he told earlier and this statement. I'm also highly skeptical of his methodology of collecting information when he doesn't even follow up the event at the "party" with a formal interview to try and get the facts straight and record it more officially.

I'm glad you address the level of skepticism on air... but you also have to admit that on pure believability, you'd have to ignore a lot of common sense (even when it comes to UFO events) to believe what Miley said.

The post makes all the right points and doesn't overstate (like some others I've read on here).

Thanks!

 

[turblom79]

I agree. I think the only people who believe that psychedelics can offer you transcendence are those that take them, and sorry, I am not amongst them.

 

[DBTrek]

The post makes all the right points and doesn't overstate (like some others I've read on here).

Thanks!

We're all vastly interested in you opinons on threads, I'm sure. My question is . . . what's your opinion on the subject?

-DBTrek

 

[interestedINitall]

We're all vastly interested in you opinons on threads, I'm sure. My question is . . . what's your opinion on the subject?

-DBTrek

Gee, I guess I don't have an opinon[sic].

Or maybe, as I've already written, I think that Tony2007's statement is sound and well presented. That being the case, an attention grabbing, pleonastic seconding isn't necessary.

 

[Yakuzablitz]

I agree. I think the only people who believe that psychedelics can offer you transcendence are those that take them, and sorry, I am not amongst them.

As someone who's never taken a psychoactive substance, you're not really in any position to comment on the kind of people who take those drugs or the insight a psychedelic experience might give into the functioning of what we term "consciousness".

I agree that the fact that these two witnesses were tripping on mescaline basically invalidates their testimony but do we have to resort to stereotypes about "stoners" and "druggies"? Or rehash government propaganda about how evil and destructive drugs are?

 

[turblom79]

I was not trying to pas judgement or stereotype anyone who uses drugs. I was simply pointing out exaclty what you said, that a majority of people have not tried psychadelic drugs, and therefore have no frame of reference on how they work.

 

[pixelsmith]

I agree. I think the only people who believe that psychedelics can offer you transcendence are those that take them, and sorry, I am not amongst them.

but you have no problem proudly displaying the king of crappy beer. i hope you dont actually swallow.

 

[turblom79]

lol, i work for budweiser, and that crappy beer you are referring to is the number one selling product in the world.

 

[hopeful skeptic]

As someone who's never taken a psychoactive substance, you're not really in any position to comment on the kind of people who take those drugs or the insight a psychedelic experience might give into the functioning of what we term "consciousness".

That's ridiculous. He's perfectly able to comment on the subject. There are any number of studies that clearly show the effects of these drugs on the user. Do you have to set yourself on fire to understand what heat does, or does simple observation of its effect suffice?

I agree that the fact that these two witnesses were tripping on mescaline basically invalidates their testimony but do we have to resort to stereotypes about "stoners" and "druggies"? Or rehash government propaganda about how evil and destructive drugs are?

I happily support anyone who ridicules stoners, drunks or profligates. I see the damage this garbage inflicts on our society.

There really are moral absolutes in the world.

 

[DBTrek]

I happily support anyone who ridicules stoners, drunks or profligates. I see the damage this garbage inflicts on our society.

There really are moral absolutes in the world.

That statement is absolute idiocy. The United States has the largest prison population on earth, thanks in a large part to people spewing and believing ignorance like the above quote. Cannabis has been scientifically tested numerous times and found to be less toxic to the health of a human than legal intoxicants. The consumption of cannabis has resulted in a grand total of zero recorded overdose deaths. The consumption of fast food has been responsible for far more. Where are the outraged people screaming that consuming McDonalds must be outlawed because heart disease is the #1 killer in America?

. . . that's right, they're sittin on their fat a**es eating Big Macs and condemning "stoners". Anyone who has reviewed the science on the subject knows better than to drink the government kool aid when it comes to cannabis.

-DBTrek

 

[Aaron LeClair]

I happily support anyone who ridicules stoners, drunks or profligates. I see the damage this garbage inflicts on our society.

There really are moral absolutes in the world.

Maybe some day you'll include righteousness, stereo typing and being insulting as damaging too. One could say being around such characteristics is partially what drives many to use drugs.

 

[mikepc]

Morality is one of the most relative concepts imaginable. It ranks up there with taste in music.

 

[CapnG]

Morality is one of the most relative concepts imaginable. It ranks up there with taste in music.

Entirely correct. The "moral absolutes" of 100 years ago would be considered grossly amoral by modern standards. Good, bad, right, wrong these are temporal and social notions only.

 

[Aaron LeClair]

Glad you 3 touched on that absolute statement. I didn't know where to begin so I let it be at the time. I'm still rather baffled by the statement. I guess it's like time to many people. It appears like a constant, but it really isn't. Even if it is, who gets to say? Who's right? Who knows and who doesn't? Hopeful seems to hate dogma, yet that statement reeks of it to me.

I prefer ethics over morality What I mean is, ethics is one's personal code of conduct that doesn't need to be preached to others, or conformed to. It is realizing that right and wrong (in a moral sense) is relative and arbitrary. Just because you think something is right for you, doesn't mean it is for others.

One of the things that leads to some of the most thought of immoral acts (by many people's definitions, not necessarily mine) is the ideas of an absolute right and wrong. It's the spine of many wars, if not all.

 

[dear earthling]

I personally feel sorry for anyone who has never had the courage to step out of society's preachy moral bubble and try to expand their mind/consciousness. Just like as in Miley's case, after experimenting with certain substances I was freed from the dogma and ridiculous belief system that I was raised with, and my heart opened up immensely to a much more positive and compassionate understanding of this world we live in. I feel that anyone who discredit's another person's experiences simply for the fact that they've dabbled in a substance deemed illegal (we could start a HUGE conversation on this alone) is ludicrous and reveals an extremely limited and narrow minded perception on how reality truly works on the discreditor's part.

Some things are simply experienced and understood on a very deep level. It doesn't mean they can or even have to be explained, measured, or proven through scientific means. I feel that the most profound attributes of our universe will forever elude science - those that wish to sit in judgement, while others who aren't afraid to seek out all of the sublime experiences life has to offer, are missing out.

I've had many paranormal experiences, including out of body, ufo sightings, spirit encounters, and an unexplained animal/creature event. I've had them since before I was able to speak. The frequency of these events has neither increased or decreased since my first partaking of hallucinogens in 1997. I've since stopped many years ago, around 2000 or so, and was never a hardcore-every-weekend type. To me, anyone who dismisses someone like Miley is simply doing themselves a disservice.

 

[Gareth]

Wow. OP is harsh. How the fuck do you know what happened? Miley sounded sincere.

If its the drug angle then Im not surprised. Most people that have never used anything have the wrong idea.

Yeah Im aware this thread is a year + old

 

[Tommy Allison]

I think that most people who do drugs lack something in their lives that would normally keep them occupied or happy.

With that said, everyone has something in their lives that they do which makes them happy, or helps them transcend reality. Whether it's religion, video games, chocolate, coffee, booze or drugs, there's something that everyone uses as an escape valve.

Some of these escapes affect your judgement, and of course your grounding in reality.

Some don't. Drugs unfortunately DO affect your reality.

 

[dear earthling]

I think that most people who do drugs lack something in their lives that would normally keep them occupied or happy.

I think this is so far off the mark I find it insulting.

I have an incredibly abundant life, as do most of my friends. We are all travelers, artists, musicians, actors, singers, social workers, parents - very outgoing, creative, and loving people. Most are of the Buddhist persuasion. Most work for themselves, setting their own schedules, doing what they love or creating things of beauty for a living. One is a NY Times best selling author of a book he wrote entitled "More Than Human". He's a nanotech scientist and probably the biggest proponent of lsd I've ever met. He takes me to Burning Man nearly every year. We almost all have seen ufos (primarily over the Nevada desert) and several of us have seen spirits.

In fact, I find that most people who have never tried any drugs are usually the ones who are lacking something in there lives (ie - unshackled minds). Most people who haven't are hung up on some belief system that says its wrong (usually religion) and I find them to be the quickest to judge and the quickest to adapt to a routine that they think is actual "living". Watch the game, have some drinks, go to bed, get up for work, repeat. Maybe go to Vegas for vacation. (I just don't see the appeal.) Sounds pretty empty to me.

Your stereotype doesn't fit the bill here whatsoever.

With that said, everyone has something in their lives that they do which makes them happy, or helps them transcend reality. Whether it's religion, video games, chocolate, coffee, booze or drugs, there's something that everyone uses as an escape valve.

Some of these escapes affect your judgement, and of course your grounding in reality.

Some don't. Drugs unfortunately DO affect your reality.

When I was "using drugs" it was never as an escape valve. This is the problem with so many peoples view. Sure, many people do use them that way, but just like those hoaxers in the ufo community who bring ridicule to the real seekers of truth, there are those who damage people's perceptions on these kinds of drugs. Use does not equal abuse. And I for one, as do many others I know, do not partake very often and when we do, its treated as a tool. Ayahuasca meditations with a shaman in the woods in Canada two months ago, for example. The things you experience and the way the entire universe opens up to you is something you wouldn't be so quick to judge if there wasn't so much disinformation out there.

Drugs indeed HAVE affected my reality. I was so naive before. Honestly, such an ignorant, dogma rattled, ASShole. If everyone's reality were like mine and Miley's and so many people I know, things would be much better in this world. It really would. But unfortunately, people would rather drink coffee, get fat on the couch, and play video games. Ineffective human beings, only taking and rarely giving, entertained by anything that comes down the pipe instead of finding that inside themSELVES which is TRULY entertaining, and buying into the machine. I find it really sad.

Man, I miss Bill Hicks...

 

[Gareth]

Tommy made some important points about the way many people use drugs. But I must admit, earthling I was thinking the same as you after reading Tommys post and scrolling through my Psychedelic Salon podcast feed in iTunes.