Bruce Maccabee — February 9

[callmesnake]

Apologies,

What with this being my first post . Long time lurker me.

This week's show with Bruce Macabee convinced me of one thing.

The in depth discussion of photographic evidence on a non visual medium like radio is tedious.

All in all

It was like a bad 2 and a half hour Jimmy Stewart impression.

 

[Bob Watson]

I was impressed by the discussion! It showed he has a clear intrest in the topic. also I was very impressed with his answers concering the discovery of a model of the UFO in waters attic...

 

[callmesnake]

Maybe I'm being a bit harsh. I've always liked bruce but found this one hard going. Enlivened only by Ted Anderson and the Berky Guy

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Just FYI: Ted Anderson, who voices many GCN ads, is the owner of the company.

 

[callmesnake]

I know this,

He has his fingers in many pies does ol' Ted

 

[manxman]

Maccabee told a lot of half truths about Gulf Breeze. For instance, his method of determining that the UFO model found in Ed's old house was made too late for Ed's photos is highly dubious and all depends on listening to Ed. There is good evidence that the plans the model was made from were from 1987, before the photos. [i just looked into the case again...the idea that the plans were from a later house is is a plain lie made up by Walters that Maccabee CHOOSES to believe. See Startling revelations: June-July 1990 ]

Yes, yes, Ed committed fraud, yes yes he took double exposure ghost photos, yes yes a UFO model was found hidden in his home....yes yes, a kid admitted that he helped Ed fake some UFO photos, yes yes I took a lot of money to endorse the case, all of this Maccabee brushes aside but he pedantically parses the statements of those who criticize the case, creating elaborate explanations for Walters fraud.

Notice that the way he decided that the Trent's photos were real was by determining the hearts of the Trents--very scientific. Notice also that he never mentioned that the Trent's were repeaters who saw UFOs on other occasions.

Maccabee is a paranormal true believer who pretends to be objective. He recently supported a picture (that virtually everyone agrees is an owl)as a photo of Bigfoot. There is almost no photo or video that Bruce can't see something paranormal in. Because he uses scientific terminology in his papers, many UFO believers accept whatever he says.

But some don't, the late Jerry Black, a local UFO believer, worked hard against the Walters nonsense...his papers are very revealing, And many other believers worked against Maccabee and Walters, knowing that this silly case brought their already dubious field down even further.

Maccabee is truly one of the worst enemies of UFOlogy.


Lance

did the the other witness's and the photos they took of the same objects all use 'models aswell, why was the model found hidden a house that had been empty for over a year, not match up to any photographed objects in the true dimensions it would have needed to, or to any other eye witness photographs.


and the money accusation is also a lie
DEFENSE OF ED WALTERS: COMMENTARY ON "AN INTERVIEW WITH JERRY BLACK"

...........

In the interview Mr. Black spent a considerable amount of time worrying about the ethical
implications of me receiving a payment from Ed Walters during the UFO investigation under the
assumption that I received a payment in July, 1988. He argues that receiving such a payment
would be unethical. I would agree. However, Mr. Black need not have worried: I did not
receive any payment in July, 1988. Nor did I receive one in the previous months nor for about
6 months afterward (when I was paid for writing the book chapter; see above). As I have
pointed out above, by the time I gave my MUFON presentation I had concluded that creation of
the SRS photos was beyond Ed's capability. This was the "physics argument" against the hoax
hypothesis. I then learned the result of Overlade's investigation and discussed the polygraph
tests with McLaughlin. These gentlemen provided me with evidence that Ed was not the type to
be making up weird UFO stories. This was the "psychologists argument" against the hoax
hypothesis. I was, of course, aware that his family members were involved as witnesses and
that there were numerous other witnesses in Gulf Breeze. So, by the time I actually agreed to
write a book chapter I was convinced it was "all real" and I have maintained that position,
despite the slings and arrows of cruel fate (and numerous skeptics) ever since then.

Note: for a multiple witness sighting with multiple photos involving Ed and others see
NOT JUST ANOTHER EVENING STROLL.
There are several other Gulf Breeze sightings also presented at the same web site,


.................

jerry black was a local skeptic, you have absolutely no shame, you just brazenly lie on a whim.



and after the reporter finds the model, ed immediately takes a lie detector test to prove it was planted in a dirty tricks campaign, including the reporter, who promptly refused to take the same lie detector test as him.

The circumstances suggest those of a reporter who received a tip, but a tip from whom? My answer is, a tip from the persons responsible for making and planting the model in the house attic ... When questioned about the tip, the reporter denied that he had received one. The reporter also refused to take a lie detector test. (Walters 214-5)

'''There is good evidence that the plans the model was made from were from 1987,'''

and who is it you link to for the debunk, tim printy, the pure self serving filth printy, the very epitomy of a walking talking living liar.

this is printy all over, just typical of his BS story-telling.

Ed had passed one self-sponsored test and seemed to be passing his voice stress tests.

he passed 3 independent test's in reality, only one did ed pay for himself, and he paid pre-test.

heres 2 tests he passed before he was setup by the reporter, and college/s


I interviewed Harvey
McLaughlin, the expert polygraphist, who had administered two polygraph tests to Ed in
February, 1988. (McLaughlin told me that he had tested a large number of people over the
years, perhaps as many as 15,000.) Ed expected the first test and had paid for it in advance.
The second was a "surprise test" (Ed didn't expect it) to verify the first. The results of
McLaughlin's tests were that Ed had told the truth as Ed knew it. Mr. Black has claimed that
the polygraph test results should be ignored because Ed hired the polygrapher.

 

[prometheus73]

I was interested in the comment by Mr. Maccabee or maybe Chris that most photos show only lights and that he is interested in geometric shapes in UFO photos. 3 months ago I took 2 cellphone pics in rapid succession near my home in Tucson. One is clearer than the other and although they are typical blurry UFO photos, at least they are MY blurry UFO photos . This craft has a definite shape. Does anyone here have a suggestion whom I could email these to?

 

[manxman]

I was interested in the comment by Mr. Maccabee or maybe Chris that most photos show only lights and that he is interested in geometric shapes in UFO photos. 3 months ago I took 2 cellphone pics in rapid succession near my home in Tucson. One is clearer than the other and although they are typical blurry UFO photos, at least they are MY blurry UFO photos . This craft has a definite shape. Does anyone here have a suggestion whom I could email these to?

tim printy.

signed
lance moody

 

[Sentry]

First, thanks to Gene and Chris for putting this "popular demand" show together. Hmm, interesting topic, knowledgeable guest, good questions, but…

The part of the show that interested me the most was a few words near the close, the part about: if we subtract Ed Walters from the Gulf Breeze case, then there's still a major UFO flap to be discussed. That's just what I'd like to know more about, but Ed keeps getting in the way.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Lance, you are over the edge here, which is why I removed the last two sentences and edited the first.

 

[Bob Watson]

Lance do you have or can direct me to any site that shows clearly the model was used in the pics I would greatly be thankfull!

 

[Gene Steinberg]

It works both ways but you went the next step.

 

[manxman]

it matters nothing what name you assign to one of your own lance..

from your link

I'm in the business of researching, scientifically and objectively, UFOs," says Black matter-of-factly. "I just wish I had an answer for you people. I wish I could tell you that UFOs are, you know, nothing to worry about. But they've frightened a lot of people. They've scared a lot of people."
Even so, says Black, there isn't a shred of evidence that UFOs are extraterrestrial, that they've ever landed on Earth or that aliens have abducted people. In 92 percent of cases, UFOs reported by rattled eyewitnesses turn out to be aircraft, mistaken celestial bodies and other natural phenomena or elaborate hoaxes, he says.

But that still leaves 8 percent; and it's these remaining cases, the ones that cannot easily be explained, that most interest Jerry Black. For four decades, he's tried to expose the hoaxes, the false claims and the lackluster investigating and focus on the cases that, even after thorough investigation, cannot be explained.

debunker wearing the same mask as printy and oberg.


we would love it to be true, but yada yada.............honest we would

 

[Bob Watson]

@vesy It's linked in my above message.

Lance

thanks lance!

 

[Vance]

Thanks Gene and Chris for consistently having guest that are enteraining and informative.

As an aside while Gulf Breeze is next to Pensoacola Naval Air Station it is also only 50 miles from Eglin Air Force Base. Eglin is responsible for development and testing of all air delivered non nucular weapons and home of the Valperasaiso bombing and gunery range.

Tyndall Air Force Base is 100 miles from Gulf breeze and was the USAF Defense Weapons Center 1967 to 1992. It also has weapons ranges adjacent in the gulf.

The Gulf airspace was very heavily monitored during this period with Cuba so close.

Dr Maccabee is an optical physicist formerly employed by the US Navy and has given briefings at the CIA on the UFO topic.

At the very least all this together taints the case in my mind.

 

[wwkirk]

Dr. Maccabee's discussion was intensely detailed.

 

[Tony B.]

Lance,

Don't mince words - what do you REALLY think of Dr. Maccabee?

Everybody makes mistakes; heaven knows I've made more than my share.

To the best of my knowledge, the Trents didn't make a single cent off of those photos. Nor did they ever try to exploit their experience for gain.

I'd also like to see the source for your assertion about their being "repeaters", if you don't mind. Thanks.

 

[trainedobserver]

I was hoping to hear about Maccabee's own sighting in Gulf Breeze. He mentioned it in passing, but no one followed up on it. Of did I miss that part skipping commercials?

I agree with Sentry. The Walters story is only part of the Gulf Breeze flap and its a shame other aspects of the flap weren't explored.

I still view the two Walters books as classic UFO literature. I couldn't hardly put the things down until I finished them. Whether you take them as true or just UFO hoax fiction they are classics every UFO buff or pseudo arm-chair researcher should read.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

He's a hard person to question, because his spiel goes on so long, and interruptions are difficult. I had to force a few.

 

[Burnt State]

Apologies,

What with this being my first post . Long time lurker me.

This week's show with Bruce Macabee convinced me of one thing.

The in depth discussion of photographic evidence on a non visual medium like radio is tedious.

All in all

It was like a bad 2 and a half hour Jimmy Stewart impression.

Glad to have you engaged in the discussion. Ironically, as I was listening I was seeing these images in my head, thinking to myself about his visual explanations, completely enthralled. It was great to hear some of his explanations and backgrounds of what are considered classic cases. At some points he almost had me convinced that it's actually possible to take a picture of a UFO, instead of them just residing in the minds and the stories told by witnesses. I thought this was a great episode with what is another unique, historical figure in ufology.

Only time will be the best measure of his contributions to the field. His emphasis on 'knowing the person' seems to be weighed a little more heavy than the analysis at times. As far as him being a believer, he obviously believes the data he is presenting. I could not find the Bigfoot photo Lance was talking about but if Bruce doesn't tighten up the website and get the links together he runs the risk of going down the Ted Phillips route.