Book recommendation: Sekret Machines: Gods

[marduk]

I'm only about 1/3 the way through this one, but it's blowing my mind. Check it out.

The first volume in Gods, Man & War, GODS introduces the reader to some of the critical issues that are foundational to an intelligent and enlightened grasp of the revelations that will follow in the next two volumes. There is another Force in the universe of our Reality, another context for comprehending what has been going on for millennia and especially in the last seventy years. Sekret Machines is the result of input from scientists, engineers, intelligence officers, and military officials -- a group we call the Advisors -- and transcends the speculation of journalists, historians and others whose conclusions are often either misinformed or only tease around the edges of the Sekret Machines. The reader will not discover wild theories or unfounded claims, but instead will confront a solid -- if often unsettling -- reality, one that demands the collaboration of all of us in every field of human endeavor if we are to understand it and manage its effects.

The TL;DR version of this book for me - so far - is the best way to look at the UFO field is to look at what it isn't... from a semiotic/historical viewpoint.

 

[William Strathmann]

The TL;DR version of this book for me - so far - is the best way to look at the UFO field is to look at what it isn't... from a semiotic/historical viewpoint.

Jason Colavito, can we say, tells you what he thinks. Just wondering what you think of his review, here. On the first page he said:

The choice to mix facts and novelistic impressions is an intentional one because Levenda, having decided that UFOs are prima facie real, abandons the pretense of fact-base reporting early on and instead states that his and DeLonge’s methodology is to purposely merge facts with lies in the hopes that they will alchemically create truth: “Sekret Machines intends to demonstrate that by merging fictional and nonfictional approaches, including mass media and social media in a variety of strategies, something analogous to ‘truth’ may be discovered…”. Pause for a moment to consider that: Levenda is telling readers that they can’t trust that any one Sekret Machines product, be it this book, the novel series, social media postings, etc. is “true” in any objective sense, but rather that he and DeLonge consider “truth” to be a social construct made up of the authors’ and audiences’ beliefs.​

Is this fair in your opinion? Exaggerated? Out of context?

 

[marduk]

Jason Colavito, can we say, tells you what he thinks. Just wondering what you think of his review, here. On the first page he said:

The choice to mix facts and novelistic impressions is an intentional one because Levenda, having decided that UFOs are prima facie real, abandons the pretense of fact-base reporting early on and instead states that his and DeLonge’s methodology is to purposely merge facts with lies in the hopes that they will alchemically create truth: “Sekret Machines intends to demonstrate that by merging fictional and nonfictional approaches, including mass media and social media in a variety of strategies, something analogous to ‘truth’ may be discovered…”. Pause for a moment to consider that: Levenda is telling readers that they can’t trust that any one Sekret Machines product, be it this book, the novel series, social media postings, etc. is “true” in any objective sense, but rather that he and DeLonge consider “truth” to be a social construct made up of the authors’ and audiences’ beliefs.​

Is this fair in your opinion? Exaggerated? Out of context?

I think that's a fair assessment from his perspective. I mean, I think it was the very beginning of the book where the authors say right out that if you're looking for a discussion about the reality of the phenomenon, look elsewhere.

This is not a Leslie Keane book trying to convince the mainstream that something is there.

This is also not a Stichin work of speculative fiction. For example, they talk quite a bit about Babylonian and Sumerian history and culture - something I had a passing interest in - and I can tell you it's pretty legit.

The angle they are basically taking is that we are fundamentally the remnants of a cargo cult. Which means that we have it all wrong, and neither science nor religion is going to help us because both are looking in the wrong direction.

Which I don't necessarily agree with but I'm finding the line of inquiry fascinating, and a very honest approach.

For example, they say Stichin is full of shit, which I agree with. But they say he picked up on a cultural meme - that we were a servant class for God - and then back it up with the Enuma Elish and Torah.

For example, God destroyed the Tower of Babel because we had the capability of doing something that rivalled God. So he knocked it down and took that capability away. He kicked us out of Eden for the same reason - because we took on knowledge that only God was supposed to have. So we got the boot.

Which is fascinating because that's actually what the Torah says.

 

[William Strathmann]

I think that's a fair assessment from his perspective. I mean, I think it was the very beginning of the book where the authors say right out that if you're looking for a discussion about the reality of the phenomenon, look elsewhere.

This is not a Leslie Keane book trying to convince the mainstream that something is there.

This is also not a Stichin work of speculative fiction. For example, they talk quite a bit about Babylonian and Sumerian history and culture - something I had a passing interest in - and I can tell you it's pretty legit.

The angle they are basically taking is that we are fundamentally the remnants of a cargo cult. Which means that we have it all wrong, and neither science nor religion is going to help us because both are looking in the wrong direction.

Which I don't necessarily agree with but I'm finding the line of inquiry fascinating, and a very honest approach.

Got it. Thanks.

 

[Goggs Mackay]

I haven't read the book and I've stated elsewhere that I don't have a problem with deLonge per se, I once saw him interviewed on Open Minds by Maureen and Jason and I was impressed with Tom's rapid-fire responses that demonstrated his detailed knowledge of the last 70 years of UFOs. So forgetting his fame for music, and looking at his interest and knowledge of UFOs only, he comes across as very well read and genuinely interested.

So far, so good. Then I hear he has won an award of 'Researcher of the Year' and I'm puzzled because he hasn't really published any research as such, nor has he made any documentary films like James Fox. His only research seems to be all these meetings he is supposedly having with people whose names we mostly are not even told. We are not being granted interview transcripts or video of him talking to these people, we are only getting told and hinted at that he is being exposed to 'interesting stuff' etc. He is coming across like Steven Greer in that he gives the impression of having found out information that the ufological field would surely love to share - though he doesn't really state that outright to be fair. It's all very 'I know all the secrets and I'll tell you one day but I cannot right now....'

So many B.S artists out there have peddled that line and in truth, I would love it if he really did have the 'good stuff' and was promising to share sometime soon but we have heard it all before and I will not really give him any credit until he 'puts up'. If he really has this information but cannot share it at the moment, it would be fairer on the rest of us great unwashed if he just kept quiet until such time that he can indeed enlighten us all. He most certainly does not even remotely deserve any award for research when there are people out there who are actually doing actual research and collecting data and interviewing witnesses etc and it is one of those people who deserve such awards.

I will be ecstatic to be wrong and find out he really has something interesting and I'll eat humble pie with whipped cream on top if he does. As I said, I don't dislike him personally, I think I'd really enjoy talking to him one-on-one or on an episode of the Paracast but until we actually get something from him, I'm not going to give him much thought.

Reading a book that states at the outset that it is not fully fact-based is fine by me. It's good that that is cleared up straight away and I've no reason to think the book is anything but great to read - I'm just not lumping it with any UFO classic book.

I'd really like to hear what you guys think once you've read the lot.

 

[marduk]

You know what? I didn't even realize that was who delonge was. My bad.

I wouldn't push it to say it's not fact based. What they are saying is:

“If you need convincing—after all the data that has been presented by sober, sane members of world governments, including that of the United States, as well as by military observers around the world who have gone on record concerning alien contact—then there is nothing here for you.”

So I think what they are doing is proposing it's real axiomatically. Which I have a giant problem with, but the tone it was stated with intrigued me.

What the book actually said is that government disclosure isn't coming, because it's fundamentally missed the boat. Like a category mistake.

I've also read Colavito's review of the book, where he both rightly and wrongly slams it.

Where he does go offside is criticizing Lavenda's reference as of the Enuma Elish as Sumerian instead of Babylonian. While kinda correct, technically it was written in Sumero-Akkadian script, and was likely handed down in some forms from a Sumerian poem. If someone were to ask me, it's Mesopotamian. Regional. Old. With overlaps from both.

The Enuma Elish (also known as The Seven Tablets of Creation) is the Mesopotamian creation myth whose title is derived from the opening lines of the piece, `When on High'. All of the tablets containing the myth, found at Ashur, Kish, Ashurbanipal's library at Nineveh, Sultantepe, and other excavated sites, date to c. 1100 BCE but their colophons indicate that these are all copies of a much older version of the myth. As Marduk, the champion of the young gods in their war against Tiamat, is of Babylonian origin, the Sumerian Ea/Enki or Enlil is thought to have played the major role in the original version of the story. The copy found at Ashur has the god Ashur in the main role as was the custom of the cities of Mesopotamia. The god of each city was always considered the best and most powerful. Marduk, the god of Babylon, only figures as prominently as he does in the story because most of the copies found are from Babylonian scribes. Even so, Ea does still play an important part in the Babylonian version of the Enuma Elish by creating human beings.

Enuma Elish - The Babylonian Epic of Creation

Where he does rightly slam it:

Levenda tries to use the myth as an entry point into a discussion of “sovereignty,” here eliding the legal title to rule a country with the idea of human primacy on Earth. In so doing, he brings in postmodern philosophy in a pretentious way to argue that human institutions have no way to deal with superhuman phenomena and therefore refuse to acknowledge the existence of UFOs because to do so would vaunt space aliens (or gods, or whatever) above humanity, an ideological impossibility. This leads to a rant about skeptics and materialists treasuring science as a “dogma,” as though space aliens would not be a subject of scientific interest. You can see from this were Levenda’s sympathies lie; he imagines the “aliens” as gods and the UFO “phenomenon” as an incursion of pre-Abrahamic myth into our reality. This is not, to put it kindly, much of an argument about UFOs, but it is a political one. Levenda emphasizes that his analysis would lead to the overthrow of all current governments because they undermine the absolute obedience each level of the social hierarchy owes its superiors. He then rants some more about science and how scientists refuse to study UFOs because they can’t be “tested.” This is demonstrably false, but at this point, there is no stopping the angry rants against various elites.

However, I somehow find that line of thinking fascinating.

It would explain a lot if somehow both science and religion profoundly misunderstood what is happening -- like trying to describe quantum mechanics without math.

You'd scrabble around in the dark and never be able to grasp it, because without math, you just couldn't get there.

And I found the discussion of the modern day cargo cults... disquietingly familiar somehow.

Again, I'm not saying what is claimed in the book is true. The book is deeply flawed. What I am saying is that I'm finding the direction refreshing. And a welcome change from recounting eyewitness testimony and a plea for media and science to take the topic seriously.

Because that's just old.

 

[marduk]

OK I take it all back. I've totally abandoned this book.

The best part was also the worst part... when they ask the reader to consider that someone using magic rituals using a circle that travelled to another plane of existence would end up looking like a disc-shaped UFO to them...

+1 for making me remember the bizarro Dr Strange comics from the 70s but -100 for logic.