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BBC: The Great Global Warming Swindle

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DVS said:
I just watched The Great Global Warming Swindle and it was extremely ratrional and informative, not even close to being as propagandistic as Gore's movie. It even has members of the IPCC responisble for that UN report speaking in opposition to the idea the human CO2 is causing global warming. I'm listening to these scientists, it is the sun that actually causes global warming acting in cycles. Its not our fault, im not falling for this guilt complex.

Pollution should be curbed, and all efforts should be made to be less dependent upon oil and all that, but that doesnt have to do with global warming.
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I'm in total agreement.
 
David Biedny said:
RD,

Some thoughts regarding your post...

- Humans are self-centered viruses with shoes. The idea that we have a "positive effect" on the environment makes me chuckle - we use this planet as a pantry, playground and toilet. Take a drive through Elizabeth, New Jersey, and show me where we've done good to the Earth.

- The cycle of fires in the forests existed before we got here, and will be here after we're gone.

- Our irrigation of the land is to our own ends - I'll go out on a limb, and say that the lushness and diversity of the flora of this planet have decreased since humans began their stay here. Mono-culture crops are placing much of the plant life on this planet in jeopardy, and that's directly related to our activities in trying to influence nature in a way that fulfills economic agendas exclusively.

- We are indeed a product of nature, and when humans become too troublesome for this planet, the self-regulating systems of nature will get rid of us in a jiffy.

Human vanity will be our downfall.

dB
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Wow, you really have a very low opinion of your fellow humans - I would argue that we could be 'responsible' care takers of this planet if we didn't allow the power-mongerers to take over and rule our lives.

Most of us on this planet are 'playing the game' of someone else's making - we don't have much choice. We've become a race of consumers and our demands drive production.

But you already know this.
 
Rick Deckard said:
Wow, you really have a very low opinion of your fellow humans - I would argue that we could be 'responsible' care takers of this planet if we didn't allow the power-mongerers to take over and rule our lives.

Most of us on this planet are 'playing the game' of someone else's making - we don't have much choice. We've become a race of consumers and our demands drive production.

But you already know this.
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When I see what passes as morality these days, yes, I admit that my opinion of the human race is indeed at a low point. The fact that people take pleasure in other people's pain, the injustices of the world, the way in which the US government craps all over everything and takes us closer to the brink of a global thermonuclear war, all in the name of the almighty dollar, the documentary Jesus Camp (which clearly demonstrates that the Pentacostal fundamentalists are not much different from the Taliban), all this makes me lose much of my hope for the future. Thank goodness I don't have children, I can't imagine how absolutely screwed the world will be when my girlfriend's kids are my age. The fish will probably be gone by then, and if life fails in the ocean, we're all toast.

You're absolutely right about how we've become a race of consumers - should this fact make me think highly of humanity?

dB
 
David Biedny said:
You're absolutely right about how we've become a race of consumers - should this fact make me think highly of humanity?

dB
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No, it should make you realise that most of us are 'okay' people and that we're being led down this path by a very small group of 'elite'.

I really do believe in the 'herd' mentality of the human race and I really do believe that aspect of our 'character' is being ruthlessly exploited at the expense of the many and for the benefit of a few.
 
Damn David, try not to sound too pessimistic! :p

What with all the self-loathing of humanity, specifically christians and the United States? I can reference some other religions and countries that take part in some terrible behavior, but I have a feeling that wouldnt be of interest when the U.S. and christians are the source of all that is wrong with humanity. Just a thought.
 
Rick Deckard said:
No, it should make you realise that most of us are 'okay' people and that we're being led down this path by a very small group of 'elite'.

I really do believe in the 'herd' mentality of the human race and I really do believe that aspect of our 'character' is being ruthlessly exploited at the expense of the many and for the benefit of a few.
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Humanity is like a big, spoiled child, self-centered and oblivious to the larger world, concerned only with passing pleasures and entertainment, looking for a grownup to teach it discipline, deferring to an unseen God, anything but take responsibility for their own actions. I totally understand what you're saying, but I no longer accept the concept of the herd mentality as the cause for our ills. If you're right, then we're sheep, not humans.

dB
 
DVS said:
Damn David, try not to sound too pessimistic! :p

What with all the self-loathing of humanity, specifically christians and the United States? I can reference some other religions and countries that take part in some terrible behavior, but I have a feeling that wouldnt be of interest when the U.S. and christians are the source of all that is wrong with humanity. Just a thought.
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I've been sick this week, so I'm a little down, but I watched Jesus Camp last night, and it made me furious. I'm on the record saying that religious fundamentalism of any color is evil - islamic, christian and jewish fundamentalists all make me angry. I'm tired of the BS, I'm fed up with the politics of my country and the world at large, and I'm really, absolutely, positively full of the crap, lies and nonsense peddled by UFO fundamentalists. I'm Howard Beale, and the world is my Network.

OK, I'm outta here. Sorry to be such a downer.

dB
 
David Biedny said:
If you're right, then we're sheep, not humans.

dB
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That's exactly what I am saying - we *are* sheep. We lack the imagination to change our world for the better. We want someone else to do the thinking for us - that's where the Government steps in. Except those that are in the Government are serving themselves rather than the people that voted them in.
 
David Biedny said:
I've been sick this week, so I'm a little down, but I watched Jesus Camp last night, and it made me furious. I'm on the record saying that religious fundamentalism of any color is evil - islamic, christian and jewish fundamentalists all make me angry. I'm tired of the BS, I'm fed up with the politics of my country and the world at large, and I'm really, absolutely, positively full of the crap, lies and nonsense peddled by UFO fundamentalists. I'm Howard Beale, and the world is my Network.

OK, I'm outta here. Sorry to be such a downer.

dB
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:p Hey I hear you man, I was you last week. I had with bronchitis and a stomach virus, I was hating life so much! Its not like you are completely wrong here and I agree with you for the most part as far as religious fundamentalism and not even just our country, but world politics as a whole. Anyway, get well! ;)
 
mis·an·thrope
Pronunciation[mis-uhn-throhp, miz-] -noun
a hater of humankind.

Oddly enough, most misanthropes seem to forget that they are also human.

-DBTrek
 
Rick Deckard said:
Do you agree that some forest fires occur naturally and that a lot more forests would be wiped out if *we* hadn't stepped in with fire-breaks and fire-fighters?
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David Biedny said:
RD,
- The cycle of fires in the forests existed before we got here, and will be here after we're gone. dB
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Yes..
Plus the fact that we do just about everything we can to keep forests from having fires which prevents naturally occurring brush fires. These naturally occurring cycles do not kill old growth trees they just cleanse out the weaker plants. Preventing all fires allows overgrowth which results in forests that cause problems for certain animals and fires that completely devastate the forests. When humans try and stop all fires; they think they are helping the forests when in reality the natural fire cycle is better for the environment.
 
I think global warming on Mars is caused by that SUV Mars Rover thingy...

There have been local protests about that already.
 

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I came across this site, which provides a huge amount of information on climate change:

nzclimatescience.net - Home

"The Coalition encourages the reading of a wide variety of opinion and information on climate change, from many differing viewpoints. We provide links to a range of such material, including some older writings that have historic significance in the public or scientific debate. For some items, we also provide an editorial comment or correction. Responsibility for the accuracy of the pieces that we link to rests with their authors and the publication in which they appear. Refereed scientific papers are widely regarded as the most reliable source of information on climate change. Note, however, that refereeing, even by the most prestigious of journals, is no guarantee of ultimate correctness. Rather, it represents an editorial quality control process that affirms an article to be free of obvious errors and a worthy scientific contribution. Many, and probably most, refereed scientific papers contain at least small errors, ambiguities or faulty logic. Therefore, they should - almost as much as opinion editorials - be perused as if they bore the label: "reader beware".

Read also an article by S. Fred Singer, atmospheric physicist, Research Fellow at the Independent Institute, Professor Emeritus of Environmental Sciences at the University of Virginia, and former founding Director of the U.S. Weather Satellite Service:

The Great Global Warming Swindle by S. Fred Singer
 
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