Are Crop Circles all Bunk??

[truthseeker]

I remeber watching a show on crop circles and they showed a footage of orbs that were flying low to the ground and in the vicinity of where crop circles then appeared. Anybody else seeing that?

 

[Seth]

I remeber watching a show on crop circles and they showed a footage of orbs that were flying low to the ground and in the vicinity of where crop circles then appeared. Anybody else seeing that?

I believe this is the video you seek...it has long been debunked.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2BtLeWRfgo

 

[derekcbart]

The group Circlemakers is one of the prominent makers of Crop Circles. Many of their circles have been declared "real/ufo" circles.
Here is their main website: http://circlemakers.co.uk/
In 1993 they spread iron filings in one of their circles. This lead Dr. Levengood to believe that this was truth about the inhuman nature of crop circles: http://www.circlemakers.org/fe3.html
As for the description of crop circles being the result of plasma vortexes, well that is one their circles as well: http://www.circlemakers.org/vortex.html

These guys are truly amazing and the patterns they create can be considered works of art. However, most of them, until recently, were made illegally.

Check it out.

-Derek

 

[truthseeker]

The group Circlemakers is one of the prominent makers of Crop Circles. Many of their circles have been declared "real/ufo" circles.
Here is their main website: http://circlemakers.co.uk/
In 1993 they spread iron filings in one of their circles. This lead Dr. Levengood to believe that this was truth about the inhuman nature of crop circles: http://www.circlemakers.org/fe3.html
As for the description of crop circles being the result of plasma vortexes, well that is one their circles as well: http://www.circlemakers.org/vortex.html

These guys are truly amazing and the patterns they create can be considered works of art. However, most of them, until recently, were made illegally.

Check it out.

-Derek

Wow!
Can all this be done overnight?

 

[derekcbart]

Wow!
Can all this be done overnight?

Yes. Even the most elaborate designs are usually completed within four hours. This is what the paranormal proponents of crop circles don't seem to understand. If you know what you are doing then it is pretty easy to do and you only need a couple of people to help you make them.

Another thing to keep in mind when looking at crop circles is that all of the circles have farm machine tracks running through them. The circle makers just walk down these tracks to where they want to make a circle and then use ladders, rope, and boards to make the designs.

Once you know how the circles are really made I feel that it is even more amazing than thinking that extra-terrestrials made them.

 

[mike]

if only that also explained the historical accounts of cropcircles dating back to the 15th century.

 

[jjflash]

Any opinions on the subject??

I kind of go back and forth on some subject material. I tend to think the circles are just bunk, but don't know what you may think about this apparent data.

1. Elongated plant nodes
2. Plant nodes exploded or burst due to apparent energy
3. Metallic and magnetic anomalies

It would seem if there truly is data, somebody might acually be paying attention. But, as with any field, the people seem to be highly polarized. One side cites the complexity, the retirement of Doug and Dave, the personal stories, and the "data". The complexity argument may be dealt with by technology like GPS(and this new-fangled stuff called rope and sticks) and last I heard there were other people that could make crop circles. You do have more people over there in England don't you??

The other debunker side says that basically someone is doing this.
D U H !! But I've never heard anything about this apparent data that is often touted by BLT and other groups.

They are pretty cool to view and have undoubtedly affected the culture of the area, but, ....... is it all B U N K??

Parts one and two of a series of posts I am making on crop circles may be viewed at:

http://ufotrail.blogspot.com/

Comments and dialog, either supportive or critical, are welcomed and encouraged.

 

[tyder001]

if only that also explained the historical accounts of cropcircles dating back to the 15th century.

Good point. I googled it cause I didn't realise how ancient they are. These things are not the modern creation of merry pranksters after all. Not saying they are not being hoaxed because of course many are. But, it doesn't seem to explain the whole story.

 

[tyder001]

I can honestly say I don't have a dog in this hunt. I will (as I do in all things be they so called scientific or paranormal or common sense) take it on mostly a case by case basis. However, in the case of crop circles I honestly have just never gotten into them one way or the other. I did hear a person (or actually read the account) who said they watched one form. Interesting story and I don't know if it was b.s. or not.

 

[trainedobserver]

Good point. I googled it cause I didn't realise how ancient they are. These things are not the modern creation of merry pranksters after all. Not saying they are not being hoaxed because of course many are. But, it doesn't seem to explain the whole story.

Of course not, pranksters have been around since there have been people on the earth. Yes Virgina, there were prankers, artists, and nar-do-wells in ancient times too. It's true! People have possessed the incredibly advanced technology required to make crop circles since ancient times! (ah-hem)

jjflash: Your blog mentions the work of William C. Levengood. You refer to him as Dr. Levengood and although he is alleged to have presented himself as such in the past, it is my understanding that he is neither a Phd or a medical doctor. His bio at BLT Research site no longer lists him as having such a title.

The evidence is overwhelming that all complex crop circles are man made, however it is in the best interests of crop circle researchers to have people think otherwise. Its a catch-22. If they "discover" that they are man made then suddenly they aren't as interesting and they have to go research something else.

One of the few people telling the truth about crop circles is Matthew Williams. He has an online show where he interviews crop circle makers and a youTube channel that has instructive videos on the subject.

In truth, crop circle makers make very few outrageous claims about the origins of crop circles, therefore they are not hoaxing anyone. It is the crop circle researchers who have been told the truth and deny it and who use pseudo-science and poor methodology to make a cottage industry out of someone else's yard art who are the hoaxers.

 

[tyder001]

Of course not, pranksters have been around since there have been people on the earth. Yes Virgina, there were prankers, artists, and nar-do-wells in ancient times too. It's true! People have possessed the incredibly advanced technology required to make crop circles since ancient times! (ah-hem)

Nooooooooooooooo! Ya mean people played jokes and pranked one another back in the day? Well, I guess that explains the silly powdered wig George Washington alledgedly gave to Pocohontias when he told her the story about blondes having more fun.

 

[jjflash]

jjflash: Your blog mentions the work of William C. Levengood. You refer to him as Dr. Levengood and although he is alleged to have presented himself as such in the past, it is my understanding that he is neither a Phd or a medical doctor. His bio at BLT Research site no longer lists him as having such a title.

Thanks for the heads up, TO! In addition to the info you provided, I found that Levengood is not referred to as a doctor on the International Crop Circle Researchers' Association site or in his research papers. I therefore edited my blog to drop the title, 'Dr.' I do not know if Levengood ever perpetuated the misunderstanding, as he encouraged me to call him 'Lefty.'

The evidence is overwhelming that all complex crop circles are man made...

Agreed. I have some doubts about whether or not they are all matters of recreation and art, though, as I suspect some may be related to covert military activity, but nonetheless man made. That is my personal suspicion, anyway. I am also not entirely convinced that some formations, both geometric and non-geometric, might not be the result of some type of natural phenomenon. In my blog posts, I am attempting to reasonably objectively present evidence and encourage readers to draw their own conclusions, and I will eventually get to some of the more conspiracy-based circumstances.

Paranormal Buffs never seem to learn that people are more than willing to take advantage of their religious NEED to believe.

This has happened so many times in the paranormal that it really is a big part of the history.

My personal opinion, LM, is that there may be a core phenomenon at the heart of the UFO mystery, but the UFO community has been exploited and duped - by so many people with so many different motives - for so long, that the truth will continue to be virtually impossible to identify until the extent of the exploitation and hoaxes are accurately identified.

 

[trainedobserver]

though, as I suspect some may be related to covert military activity, but nonetheless man made

What do you see as evidence for that and what do you suppose the motivation for their involvement might be?

...there may be a core phenomenon at the heart of the UFO mystery, but the UFO community has been exploited and duped - by so many people with so many different motives - for so long, that the truth will continue to be virtually impossible to identify until the extent of the exploitation is accurately identified.

Excellent point. That is why we must point out the nonsense when we see it. Crop Circles fall squarely in that category. Therefore, I think it is a mistake to group complex crop circles in with any discussion of true UFO phenomena at all. You can see the true-believer/hoaxing researcher/facilitating bullshit artist pattern (which is not to say everyone involved fits the pattern of course) in what passes for UFO research, Alien Abduction research, Cryptological research, and just paranormal research in general but nowhere is it more obvious than in the Crop Circle research field so to speak.

Crop Circles, like CGI UFO videos on youTube, are pure noise.

 

[TClaeys]

The data you describe all lives within the same kind of ephemeral subjective space where most paranormal claims reside. In other words, these are not proven and repeatable collections and analyses of data.

And I am begin rather kind. In most cases the "data" is really just wishful thinking. It's "science" created by non-scientists: crackpot nonsense. As we see with the ridiculous "ghost hunters" that plague television, things like "magnetic anomalies" are easily shown by clods using equipment they don't understand.

Nowhere is the above more starkly demonstrated than when circle buffs soberly pronounce a circle to be of the paranormal variety (due to observation of the kind of stuff you describe above) only to be shown definitively that the circle was made by humans. This has happened to many circle proponents but nowhere more hilariously than to circle guru, Colin Andrews.

The book Circular Evidence tells much of the story.

Like any good paranormal adherent, the red-faced believers always seem to move on, their beliefs unshaken. Cognitive Dissonance in full bloom.

Lance

Yep, I hear you. It seems to me that this data (elongated nodes, burst nodes, etc) is probably the result of things like natural tropism when a plant is bent over. It's still alive and growing albeit in an unnatural fashion so it bends, reaches towards the sun elongating the nodes. At least that's what I'm guessing. Perhaps things like the heat of the day while bent crops are dying leads to this cavity thing looking exploded. I understand the willingness of crop circle believers to twist anything odd into their "this is paranormal energy" cornerstone.

What I'd like to see is some real science explaining these "anomalies" Perhaps they aren't even odd. Perhaps this is a natural consequence of bending crops over with wooden boards during particular times in the crops life cycle. Of course if any real science did demonstrate this it would only be ingored by the believers. Still these things are found and have to have an explanation. I just haven't found anything logically concrete explaining it, .. well except that it is immense crop circle energy. ....

 

[TClaeys]

That's just it though. What about the collected samples?? What about the photo's we see?? Are you presuming they are fake?? It's just not satisfying enough for me to not have a simple explanation and so far I haven't seen one. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a crop circle guy and I don't think anything is going on here other than wishful delusions and humans making cool designs in farmlands.

But as a skeptic wouldn't you like to see the purported evidence accurately explained instead of saying they aren't unusual with nothing to back it up?? That just seems a little dismissive.

 

[mike]

my question is where are the stuff ups ?

If you look at this man made one


http://circlemakers.org/big_words.html

You can see the stuff up in the oval part, its not on the orginal paper plan.

Yet designs of a far greater complexity appear without these errors.

i find that odd

The speed that some of these are supposed to have been created is also highly strange

This fairly simple design took a "back breaking 14 hours work"

http://circlemakers.org/shredded_wheat.html

And there is this

http://circlemakers.org/weird_shit.html

Even the man made people report weird stuff

[FONT=GENEVA, VERDANA, HELVETICA, ARIAL]Whilst making what was at the time the most ambitious crop circle ever attempted Julian Richardson and his team were witness to a strange orange ball of light. [/FONT]

[FONT=GENEVA, VERDANA, HELVETICA, ARIAL]John Lundberg recalls several anomalies he and others witnessed whilst out making circles in Wiltshire.[/FONT]

[FONT=GENEVA, VERDANA, HELVETICA, ARIAL]Rod Dickinson describes how he inadvertently photographed a small white disk in 1991. The negatives were subsequently analysed by Ufologist Andy Collins. [/FONT]

 

[exo_doc]

I remember the first time I read about Crop Circles in Omni magazine way back in the early 80's. I'll have to look through my collection to find the issue.
The photos Omni had were simple whirled designs, none of this ultra complex crap that is obviously man-made.
Now I'm not saying all circles are man made, but I think it's probably around 99%, maybe even a bit more, that is.
I think there is an honest circle phenomena, but it has been lost in the "Crop Culture" hype. ANd I think there's probably an interesting reason for their formation, but with all this other crap going on, we'll never find out what it is.

 

[jjflash]

What do you see as evidence for that and what do you suppose the motivation for their involvement might be?

I will eventually get to what I find to be some of the more interesting details in my previously referenced blog, trainedobserver, but a (not surprisingly) excellent summary of the situation is provided by Vallee. His articles, "In Search of Alien Glyphs (or are they microwave blasters?)," "Crop Circles Part Deux: Alien Glyphs, Human Myths, Blogging Bliss," "Of Flattened Flora and Expulsion Cavities: The crop circle controversy continues" and "Jacques Vallee: Of Crop Cricles, meme wars and web-based flypaper" are highly recommended and may be accessed on his blog at:

http://www.boingboing.net/author/jacques-vallee/

But as a skeptic wouldn't you like to see the purported evidence accurately explained instead of saying they aren't unusual with nothing to back it up?? That just seems a little dismissive.

It seems prematurely dismissive to me too, and that statement is not the least bit meant to imply the only alternative is the ETH. I think when a reasonably qualified expert, such as Levengood, and an intelligent researcher, such as Vallee, among others, report plant anomalies, we have a responsibility to review their work, seriously considering its validity or offering specific counterpoints if we label it invalid.

Some of Vallee's perspectives are presented above, and Levengood's papers may be viewed at:

http://iccra.org/levengood/levengood.htm

I would very much like to read specific counterpoints from individuals who have read and reasonably considered the articles and papers. If we dismiss evidence out of hand and without reasonable debate, we are no more rational than the 'true believer' crowd, we have just become a frustrated byproduct of the true believers. We are then lacking critical thinking as much as the gullible, just to the opposite extreme. Worst of all, we are subject to overlooking what might be some very interesting and relevant circumstances, even if said circumstances may have absolutely nothing to do with alleged aliens.

 

[jjflash]

Hi, everybody -

In my continuing series of posts on crop circles, I explored the strange experiences reported by independent ufologist Lindy Tucker. I then made some possible correlations with the very interesting work conducted by biophysicist William Levengood, including highlights from my interviews with him. Comments and discussion would be appreciated.

View it at:

http://ufotrail.blogspot.com/

Thanks!

 

[mike]

I remember the first time I read about Crop Circles in Omni magazine way back in the early 80's. I'll have to look through my collection to find the issue.
The photos Omni had were simple whirled designs, none of this ultra complex crap that is obviously man-made.
Now I'm not saying all circles are man made, but I think it's probably around 99%, maybe even a bit more, that is.
I think there is an honest circle phenomena, but it has been lost in the "Crop Culture" hype. ANd I think there's probably an interesting reason for their formation, but with all this other crap going on, we'll never find out what it is.

The explanation ive heard given at the various lectures ive attended (and i dont vouch for the validity of these idea's)
Is that they are some sort of language primer or similar that they started off simple and get more complex over time.

We do the same with our ABC's
Simple stuff like C is for Cat D is for Dog, rather than C is for Cataclysim etc etc.

Ive often wondered if the CC and CM expressions are part of a single message, if ET is a vegetarian then it may be as simple as cereal crops get decorated, meat crops get mutilated, seeds from within allegedly genuine cereal circles are reported to need less light and water while producing increased yeilds, while mutilated meat crops are left untouched by scavengers.
If CC's and CM's are done by the same entitys..... it might be a single message not two sperate mysterys