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April 12th Show

Forums New posts
okay, so it is new agey, but so what? Is it much different from what jacques vallee was saying? They have made leaps, and it's not all scientific, but perhaps that reflects the phenonema itself as much as it does them. And perhaps that is how it is with all these phenonema. We may be dealing with the greater consciousness of the planet itself, as John Keel pondered upon.

It was food for thought, even if Ed wouldn't let Kris talk::)
 
It was not so much the 'new agey' bent on the issue that was bothersome, but more the absolute certainity that the guests were correct in all details, had figured out the 'mystery' almost completely, were adept in translations of meaning, and that circles were actually answering their own personal questions, and that they were revealing the deepest mysteries of the universe. That's pretty heady stuff.

It's not that I don't like their explanation of the origin of these formations as more local. It seems to me to be more reasonable than aliens writing their names in the snow saying 'Kilroy was here.' But we're being asked to believe that because someone wonders about the life, the universe, and everything, that a crop circle appears with the answer, at the expense of the farmer whose crop is ruined, or at least diminished in value. If that's really true then I think the farmer has a case against these guys for damages!

The whole thing struck me as being an excess of hubris, terribly egotistical. Crop circles are all about him and he's so very sensitive that he can tell when UFOs are about to appear, and, oh, by the way, they are made of 'plasma' and further, this is how the world works. I can't bring myself to believe that the 'collective consciousness' (or whatever) is going to devote that much energy to symbolically answer one guy's questions.
 
dhatz said:
To those who seem to argue that crop-circles should be beneath our dignity, I'd say that there are several eye-witness testimonies (all from Britain AFAIK) who describe that the circle was formed within seconds (half a minute) from a "whirl-wind" like phenomenon.
Click to expand...

There's also a famous video that shows such a thing happening. There is a ball of light flying over a field in daylight and a crop circle clearly forms under it. But I've never heard if the video was found to be faked or not.
 
Brian Now said:
There's also a famous video that shows such a thing happening. There is a ball of light flying over a field in daylight and a crop circle clearly forms under it. But I've never heard if the video was found to be faked or not.
Click to expand...

There's more than one ball of light. That video was quickly, and heavily thought to be a fake by any and everyone I've heard comment on it. I think it was proven to be so as well, unfortunately the details aren't there in my mind. A search on the net should turn up info. though.

Now, there is a vid with one light, and some guy on a tractor (who also saw it) in a field. No Crop Circles formed, but one was reportedly nearby. If I'm not mistaken, military helicopter/s came and seemingly took interest in the light, and also seemed to be intimidating the person taking the video. Though maybe this was another event and I am fusing them two together.

I had, or still have for that matter, no plans on listening to this particular episode. Don't think it will interest me much. Might listen to it someday though.

/edit. this is the vid I assume Brain was referring to.
 
My problem with this week's guests: they are much too certain of themselves. They're so overly sure of themselves that they believe that they're not overly sure of themselves.

Rhetorical question: Is there something wrong with my gender that makes us females unable to speak up on podcasts? This keeps happening over and over with podcasts I listen to. The hosts will invite on a female guest and she'll be quiet as a mouse. I'd be inclined to blame the patriarchy, but half the time the men are begging the women to contribute, and they just have nothing to say. How depressing.
 
Schuyler said:
I can't bring myself to believe that the 'collective consciousness' (or whatever) is going to devote that much energy to symbolically answer one guy's questions.
Click to expand...

Or, as in the case of the Led Zeppelin album cover, just inform us about the weather.

Great post, Schuyler, by the way.
 
Please don't throw the baby out with the bath water with the subject of crop circles, yes, those guests had some strong cognitive bias and made some strong claims that were not backed up. I just feel these people have been in this research for too long without coming up for air, in their world a lot things exist that in mine are speculative, debatable and contentious. They not only take concepts such as a universal consciousness as a fact but can explain the mechanisms behind them, same goes for poltergeists and having the "ability to sense UFOs".

However, crop circles do leave solid evidence which is something lacking in the paranormal.

There was a new documentary released recently:

 
As I said earlier I have no issue with the idea that some crop formations are NOT man made. I believe that to be true.

But these guys are throwing a lot of stuff out there. Gene & Dave I apologise if you bring this up later - but I have 33mins to go and you havent called these guys out yet on why they are so absolutely sure of themselves that some formations are the result of extraterrestrials. I really thought you would take them to task for that.

And did I just hear the lady cite ice circles as an interesting phenomena? They have been explained as a normal natural occurance. (not some mysterious energy as she is suggesting).

As for the dude, I think he is actually a really intelligent guy. Just get that sense. But Im not sure about some of things he talks about regarding sources for this stuff.

couple of ice circle theories in these articles -

Met Office mystery over rare ice circle formed in Devon - Times Online
Massive 10ft Spinning Ice Circle Discovered in the UK
 
Particle Physicist said:
However, crop circles do leave solid evidence which is something lacking in the paranormal.
Click to expand...

The physical world is nothing if not a compilation of various bits of "solid evidence". Crop circles, however, are simply more bits of physical evidence which are very far away from being even remotely "paranormal". There is, at the least, very compelling evidence that these are man-made works of art.

My personal definition of paranormal has a qualifier in it that says it needs to be a phenomena about which I have some degree of concern or interest. Crop circles fail, in my mind, on both counts--there is more evidence than not that these are explicable as very mundane, if creative, incidents and I could care less (absent some bombshell evidence to the contrary). There's so many things about which I'm stymied--including my wife's "secret" ingredient in her pasta fagioli--that I must pick-and-choose in which I'll invest my interest. Crop circles don't even make my list of "things I wonder about".
 
Has anyone ever discovered a (manmade) crop circle that was messed-up, half-finished, et c? It seems like an easy kind of thing to screw up.
 
Thanks for another interesting show, this is a subject that has interested me for several years.

My main beef is that this guy has inserted too much of his own personal interpretation into his collecting of evidence.

If he could be shown that his presentation of the evidence *alone* (without any subsequent interpretation) is significant enough to persuade most thinking people that there is something interesting about crop circles, he would perhaps be able to make a more effective presentation.

I think when publicly presenting info about controversial subjects, people should make an effort to avoid interpretations and speculations unless specifically asked to do so.
 
Gen said:
Has anyone ever discovered a (manmade) crop circle that was messed-up, half-finished, et c? It seems like an easy kind of thing to screw up.
Click to expand...

I do recall something like this happening. I remember reading about a crop circle being found, and then the next day, the finders noticed that more detail had been added to the circle formation.
 
That's alot to swallow in two hours !!

We have to accept that:
  • He's able to predict the number and location of ufo's that will create the next legit crop circle.
  • He's able to discern between man made, planetary poltergeist (plasma) and extra-terrestrial source of crop circles
  • He's had psychic abilities since age 5
  • He's able to decode the meaning of crop circles
  • He interacts with the phenomena and triggers crop circles
My question... why is he the chosen one ?!
 
David B. showed incredible restraint in this episode! I was just cringing waiting for David to shred this guy. It's good you didn't. He did it to himself!

Good on ya David!
 
Heard the show today but haven't read this thread yet, so I may be repeating some others points.

Far too convinced of their own assumptions a lot of the time, and I really had to laugh when the bit about sensing the arrival of craft came up.
They sound like really nice people and all, and I got the impression they were basically honest, but I cant help but think they are only fooling themselves about a
so many points that they have lost the plot.

Having said all that, I was very intrigued by what Ed had to say about Ultrasound.
My radar went off when this came up.
My interest though, is with the low end of the sound spectrum, Infrasound, frequencies lower than 20 cycles per second.
I have brought this up a couple of times before, here's a reminder;

http://www.borderlands.com/newstuff/research/infra.htm

So after listening to these folks and then going into my own little world, it occured to me that perhaps patterns appearing in fields (The unexplained ones that is), would maybe be more likely created by some sort of infrasonic wave emminating from the earth itself. Check this out;

maybe helpful with the symbols stuff. Though not quite infrasonic, scaled up in the real world I hope you see what I mean.

Got lots more to say but I need to hear the show again.

Mark
 
I haven't finished the show but very well done Gene & David. Great restraint and ability to refocus the guests on the topic at hand shown by all.

I do have a very simple question however...

We are at our nature human partially because we developed a way of creating symbol shorthands for real world concepts and the ability to mentally manipulate these symbols to do something useful. E.g. the Jungian "Man and His Symbols", glyphs, speech, written words, et al.

However one must ask oneself a the question: if these are messages in wheat fields, why not just spell them out? Something like: "Listen here, monkeyboy! It will be partially cloudy and +16C next Tuesday." (Sorry watched the Red Dwarf return this weekend). Why use a dense, mysterious, "intuitive" symbology that only the crop circle "high priesthood" can interpret for the unwashed masses?

And why do it in such a way that is very easy to fake (injecting even more noise into the system)?

An element of the trickster, methinks. Smacks more of our collective unconsciousness than the divine. Perhaps something is trying to tempt us into teasing out some answers here, just making fools of us, or perhaps it's our species' unconscious freak out at the lack of the mysterious in the modern technological world and is simply fulfilling this need in us on it's own?

My god, I'm starting to sound like the guests on this show. I'll stop now.
 
After listening more then a half I felt a deep frustration. I mean I'd watched 'Crop circles. Quest for the truth' and I had a feeling that at last I found a good piece of documentary about Crop Circles and when I saw this episode announcement I hoped it will be another piece but.....guys, take a look at this picture - Ed and Crish
Do you see what I see? I mean I love Radio IO New Age music but certainly my balance of intuition and logic doesn't let me to accept what people like Cris tells. I completely agree with David's opinion that they are sincere people, but something is deadly wrong with their logical thinking...

I wish Gene and David invited to that episode Colin Andrews (http://www.colinandrews.net/) Perhaps in a future...

PS. You know this conversation reminds me the old joke when one guy complains to other about Beatles sounds so ugly and other asked why?! And the first guy replied that he'd heard his fellow was singing their song...
 
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