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Ancient Humans Had Sex with Mystery Relatives

Tyger

Paranormal Adept
Ancient Humans Had Sex with Mystery Relatives, Study Suggests
LINK: Ancient Humans Had Sex with Mystery Relatives, Study Suggests | LiveScience

"A new, improved sequencing of ancient human relative genomes reveals that Homo sapiens didn't only have sex with Neanderthals and a little-understood line of humans called Denisovans. A fourth, mystery lineage of humans was in the mix, too.

"As reported by the news arm of the journal Nature, new genetic evidence suggests that several hominids — human relatives closer than humans' current living cousin, the chimpanzee — interbred more than 30,000 years ago. This group of kissing cousins included an unknown human ancestor not yet revealed by the ancient DNA record.

" "It's implied it could be something like Homo erectus or similar," said Carles Lalueza-Fox, a paleogenomics researcher at Pompeu Fabra University in Spain, who was not involved in the research, but who was present at a talk on the findings given by lead author David Reich of Harvard Medical School at a meeting on ancient DNA sponsored by the Royal Society in London on Nov. 18. Homo erectus is an extinct species of human that originated in Africa and spread into Asia. [See Images of Our Closest Human Ancestor]

"Ancient human lineages

"Neanderthals are an extinct group of humans who lived between about 30,000 and 130,000 years ago. Despite their reputation as bone-headed dummies, Neanderthals were likely as advanced as modern humans in areas such as tool-making, though they were probably less socially adept.

"Denisovans are a far more mysterious group. These early humans lived in Siberia and probably split off from the branch of the human family tree that would eventually give rise to Neanderthals about 300,000 years ago. Little is known about how Denisovans lived and what they looked like.

"But genetic analyses of Neanderthals, Denisovans and modern humans suggest the three groups occasionally had sex and produced offspring.Denisovan genes show up in modern Pacific Islanders and in people from Southeast Asia and southern China. Neanderthal genes appear in 1 to 4 percent of modern Eurasian people, suggesting that Homo sapiens and Neanderthals interbred after modern humans trekked out of Africa.

"For unknown reasons, Homo sapiens are the only human survivors, as all others in the Homo genus eventually went extinct.

"New genomes, new discoveries

"The new research has been submitted to a scientific journal for publication. Under the journal's rules, lead author Reich cannot speak to the news media about the study until the paper comes out.

"A Nature News reporter who attended the Nov. 18 talk, however, reports that Reich and his colleagues have created much more complete sequences of the Denisovan and Neanderthal genomes than those used in previous research.

"The sequences confirmed previous findings that Denisovans mated with the ancestors of Pacific Islanders and East Asians, but also revealed a surprise: Genetic traces of an unknown population ofhuman ancestors were found in the Denisovan gene, suggesting even more interbreeding than previously expected. Mark Thomas, an evolutionary geneticist at University College London, described the ancient environment to Nature as a "'Lord of the Rings'-type world" with many human populations living side-by-side.

"Lalueza-Fox said the question of the mystery fourth ancestor is a "paleontological debate," but that the genetic work done by Reich and his colleagues opens the door to a deeper understanding of the individual diversity of ancient human ancestors. New techniques will enable researchers to tease out original DNA from later contaminants, he said.

"Some samples that were considered not suitable for genomic approaches are now going to be good samples," Lalueza-Fox said.

"In the past, Lalueza-Fox said, geneticists were stuck trying to extrapolate details about human evolution from modern human DNA. Now, he said, they can go directly to the ancient DNA.

" "We have been trying to understand human evolution from the study of modern human genomes, but clearly we missed part of the picture, which is now emerging from ancient hominin genomes," Lalueza-Fox said."
 
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"For unknown reasons, Homo sapiens are the only human survivors, as all others in the Homo genus eventually went extinct."

Or so they thought they went extinct............

Oh fourth race must been either the ancient draconians (think that's how they named/spelled) or reptilians.
 
Ah, yes, Flipper - finally this evening I have begun watching this and it has been a delight. What an entertaining Saturday night I am having exploring these intellectual pathways. Thank you. :)

The Immanuel Velikovsky from my youth is here - pivotal to Talbot's thesis. Inspirer to him as he was to me. It's a stupendous vision and I recall inhaling Velikovsky's three books: 'Worlds in Collision', 'Earth in Upheaval' and 'Ages in Chaos' with the avidness of a romance novel. I recall the travesty that was the ruination of Velikovsky in the 70's by the likes of the young and jockeying-for-position-on-the-world-stage Carl Sagan. Never has it been more obvious that mechanistic science brooks no opposition - like a religion - when the publisher MacMillan bowed to pressure and removed Velikovsky's bestseller from their publishing list.

I am not yet done watching the film but I have looked up David Talbot and discover this issue of the 'electric universe'. Great stuff - the problems with the very real fictions that have been developed within current science with such 'band-aide-like' ideas as 'dark matter' and such are being addressed in alternate areas of research. Excellent. [Scientists know they are dealing with provisional ideas in this area but I'm not so sure the general layman is aware just how provisional/tentative these ideas are.]

From Amazon, a review of David Talbot's 'The Electric Universe': "I've recently read several other books of interest, including Arp's Seeing Red, Lerner's The Big Bang Never Happened, Thornhill & Talbott's other work Thunderbolts of the Gods and Scott's The Electric Sky.

"These are all rather excellent works of science by folks who know what they're talking about, and don't need to resort to "dark matter," "dark energy," "black holes," "neutron stars" or other fictitious entities to explain the workings of the universe.

"Rather they go about it from an electrical / plasma (ionized matter with electrical properties) point of view. In this way, "surprising" features from the "standard model" point of view are demystified as simple electrical / plasma phenomena known from lab experiments and electrical theory dating as far back as Birkeland, Alfven, CER Bruce, Juergens and a host of others.

"It's time that good science make its way back into physics and astronomy. It's also time that abstract maths be put in their place as a tool and NOT as a prime mover and shaker. Science should be based first on observation {!}. That's exactly what Thornhill and Talbott do in The Electric Universe. They *observe* the universe *as it is* and then apply known electrical and plasma processes to explain it.

"The material is accessible to the layman. However, it may behoove readers to do additional reading to fill in any conceptual gaps. Keep an open mind, and your world view may be changed forever. Mine has been changed permanently since introduction to the material a year ago. The universe is finally beginning to make some physical sense that has been lacking in the sad world of "Big Bang" untested (often *untestable* {!}), unproven hypotheticals (dark matter, dark energy, neutron stars, black holes, WIMPs, MACHOs). It's time to end dogmatic adherence to a paradigm that has consistently failed in its predictions and embrace an electrical / plasma interpretation that can make specific testable /verifiable predictions.

"If you enjoy this book, you'll probably enjoy the books listed above, as well."

This is gripping stuff - the significance for all manner of propulsion alone is worth the look-see. Here is a review of the review: "Excellent summary of what should be obvious, even to the cloistered elites whose rice bowls would be broken. Most pressing: the need to re-invent the power source at the other end of the wall plug, a la the Lawrenceville Focus Fusion group (Lerner's prototype), Bussard's polywell (funded by U.S. Navy Research funds that were terminated just as they produced positive results, further funding was never considered; bureaucratic inertia favors super-big efforts like ITER, NIF, tokamaks; devices that will never work because they ignored basics of plasma physics). Over 99% of the Universe is plasma. Seems reasonable to assume we need do understand how to utilize electrodynamics/hydrodynamics in a practical way. Why not? Cui bono?"
 
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@flipper - can you direct me to parts 2 and 3 of 'Symbols of an Alien Sky'?

Came across this - great stuff regarding the interpretation of the Martian landscape.

Part 1 of Part 2 -

Part 2 of Part 2 -

Part 3 of Part 2 -
 
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I am enjoying this - cutting edge stuff - but the numbering of the parts is very confusing. :confused:

Part 1 of Part 3 -

TEXT: "Electric universe proponent David Talbott takes up the Comet Elenin question from a vantage point generally ignored by both the scientific mainstream and the Internet popularizers of Doomsday speculations. What is the relationship of Elenin's catastrophic demise to the larger, unsolved mystery of explosive comet disintegration? For a first look at the larger context, see "Seeking the Third Story" "

Part ? of Part 3 -

TEXT: "Electric Universe proponent David Talbott presents the first of two video segments on the electric comet. Here he discusses NASA's surprising findings on the composition of comets, none supporting the traditional "dirty snowball" hypothesis."
 
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Here's the full 3rd part - this is cutting edge and very exciting imo. If I could I would attend the seminar scheduled: "Wal Thornhill and Dave Talbott will each give two thought-provoking presentations at EU2014 Conference: All About Evidence, Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA, March 20 - 24, 2014"


TEXT: "URGENT: PLEASE READ THIS. The video presented here is still in development. For the present listing of credits (being developed simultaneously with extensive scientific review), see our credits page [...]

"We believe that this critical analysis of textbook comet theory can have a major impact on human understanding of these remarkable bodies. It can also reach well beyond the specialized science of comets to provoke a reconsideration of the Sun, planetary history, and a good deal more. We live in an Electric Universe, and the enigmatic behavior of comets provides unique insights into the role of charged particles and electrified plasma throughout the Cosmos.

"We ask for your help in inviting scientists and other centers of influence to consider the factual content in this film. For the next 60-90 days we will consider all critical suggestions prior to final editing, and we'll be especially diligent in addressing any statements of fact that a knowledgeable viewer may call into question. Our conviction is that essential facts, now confirmed by leading investigators, will not allow the institutions of science to hold onto theories that, for too long, have been proclaimed as established science."
 
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"Remembering the End of the World" - a visualization of David Talbot's work (inspired by the work of Immanuel Velikovsky). I would say Talbot's documentary is more thorough - but this one has good aspects, especially the 4th video when talking about Saturn as the ancient sun.


TEXT: "Film clips from the documentary "Remembering the End of the World," reviewing the lifelong work of David Talbott in his explorations of world mythology."


TEXT: "Film clips from the documentary "Remembering the End of the World," reviewing the lifelong work of David Talbott in his explorations of world mythology."


TEXT: "Film clips from the documentary "Remembering the End of the World," reviewing the lifelong work of David Talbott in his explorations of world mythology."


TEXT: "Film clips from the documentary "Remembering the End of the World," reviewing the lifelong work of David Talbott in his explorations of world mythology."
 
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Hi @flipper - Because of my background with Immanuel Velikovsky's work, David Talbot is very accessible. He's also taken it further. Very interesting. This is the first I have heard of the 'Electric Universe' as such (been out-of-the-loop with this stuff for a very long time). That there would be a controversy about it doesn't surprise me.

This is gripping stuff - this is science as she is 'fought' and tussled with. Talbot's analysis of the Martian landscape is dead-on. I am persuaded. When a hypothesis comes to the fore, taking all the disparate pieces with all the attendant questions, and the parts all fit together, it's a wonderful thing to see. But the scientists arguing the 'old way' will argue the 'old way' (status quo) to their dying gasp. As the saying goes, too many rice bowls at risk - nothing to do with 'Truth'. This is science in the trenches.
 
Ancient Humans Had Sex with Mystery Relatives, Study Suggests
LINK: Ancient Humans Had Sex with Mystery Relatives, Study Suggests | LiveScience

A new, improved sequencing of ancient human relative genomes reveals that Homo sapiens didn't only have sex with Neanderthals and a little-understood line of humans called Denisovans. A fourth, mystery lineage of humans was in the mix, too.

As reported by the news arm of the journal Nature, new genetic evidence suggests that several hominids — human relatives closer than humans' current living cousin, the chimpanzee — interbred more than 30,000 years ago. This group of kissing cousins included an unknown human ancestor not yet revealed by the ancient DNA record.

"It's implied it could be something like Homo erectus or similar," said Carles Lalueza-Fox, a paleogenomics researcher at Pompeu Fabra University in Spain, who was not involved in the research, but who was present at a talk on the findings given by lead author David Reich of Harvard Medical School at a meeting on ancient DNA sponsored by the Royal Society in London on Nov. 18. Homo erectus is an extinct species of human that originated in Africa and spread into Asia. [See Images of Our Closest Human Ancestor]

Ancient human lineages

Neanderthals are an extinct group of humans who lived between about 30,000 and 130,000 years ago. Despite their reputation as bone-headed dummies, Neanderthals were likely as advanced as modern humans in areas such as tool-making, though they were probably less socially adept.

Denisovans are a far more mysterious group. These early humans lived in Siberia and probably split off from the branch of the human family tree that would eventually give rise to Neanderthals about 300,000 years ago. Little is known about how Denisovans lived and what they looked like.

But genetic analyses of Neanderthals, Denisovans and modern humans suggest the three groups occasionally had sex and produced offspring.Denisovan genes show up in modern Pacific Islanders and in people from Southeast Asia and southern China. Neanderthal genes appear in 1 to 4 percent of modern Eurasian people, suggesting that Homo sapiens and Neanderthals interbred after modern humans trekked out of Africa.

For unknown reasons, Homo sapiens are the only human survivors, as all others in the Homo genus eventually went extinct.

New genomes, new discoveries

The new research has been submitted to a scientific journal for publication. Under the journal's rules, lead author Reich cannot speak to the news media about the study until the paper comes out.

A Nature News reporter who attended the Nov. 18 talk, however, reports that Reich and his colleagues have created much more complete sequences of the Denisovan and Neanderthal genomes than those used in previous research.

The sequences confirmed previous findings that Denisovans mated with the ancestors of Pacific Islanders and East Asians, but also revealed a surprise: Genetic traces of an unknown population ofhuman ancestors were found in the Denisovan gene, suggesting even more interbreeding than previously expected. Mark Thomas, an evolutionary geneticist at University College London, described the ancient environment to Nature as a "'Lord of the Rings'-type world" with many human populations living side-by-side.

Lalueza-Fox said the question of the mystery fourth ancestor is a "paleontological debate," but that the genetic work done by Reich and his colleagues opens the door to a deeper understanding of the individual diversity of ancient human ancestors. New techniques will enable researchers to tease out original DNA from later contaminants, he said.

"Some samples that were considered not suitable for genomic approaches are now going to be good samples," Lalueza-Fox said.

In the past, Lalueza-Fox said, geneticists were stuck trying to extrapolate details about human evolution from modern human DNA. Now, he said, they can go directly to the ancient DNA.

"We have been trying to understand human evolution from the study of modern human genomes, but clearly we missed part of the picture, which is now emerging from ancient hominin genomes," Lalueza-Fox said.

But paleontologists write in a new study that the bones of what they thought were European Neanderthals appear genetically closer to the Siberian Denisovans, as shown by maternally inherited "mitochondrial" DNA found in a fossil thighbone uncovered at Spain's Sima de los Huesos cave.

Sima de Los is located in the Burgos region just west of the Basque region.

Y are Irish, Welsh and Basques so similar?

Geneticist Prof Steve Jones says the Welsh and the Irish are among the most homogenous people in the world.

He and colleagues at University College, London, have spent years creating a genetic map of the Y chromosome, which is passed by males from generation to generation.

The results show that the Welsh and Irish are related to the Basques of northern Spain and southern France and to native Americans. All are descended from the Kets people of western Siberia.

Prof Jones, who was born in Aberystwyth, said the Y chromosomes showed a marked difference between males on the Welsh and English side of the border.

"This shows that in the Dark Ages, when the Anglo-Saxons turned up, there was the most horrible massacre on the English side. They killed everybody and replaced them.

"The Welsh Y chromosome is similar to that of the Basques. In the male line, at least, the Welsh and the Basques are survivors or relics of a period before huge numbers of farmers filled Europe from the Middle East.



 

Great interview! Gives a good summation and update to the science in this area. Thank you for the link. (How I wish I could attend the EU Conference in Albuquerque in 3 weeks!)

As he says: currently only gravity is seen as having any meaningful effect in the cosmos even though there are serious problems with this view. In interstellar, intergalactic space - the electrical 'sea' has enormous significance and is based on observation. In the larger electrical context earth/planets are not islands in space. [His ending comments on Global Warming are understandable - even I (who share the anthro view) wince at the debate being taken up in a popular and dogmatic fashion. There was and is far too many variables afoot - and we know far too little about what determines the actions of the planetary system gestalt. (So saying, I still am in the camp that sees humans as a contributing factor).]

What was the most sensitive - 'sensitive' as in intuitive - aspect of Velikovsky's work imo was his recognizing that humankind had been through a global trauma. The evidence was there in all the stories humankind was telling itself across the planet. Velikovsky being a psychiatrist aided his ability to 'see' the evidence of the trauma. One could argue that the current fascination with global catastrophe is part of that deep-seated 'racial memory'. [I think it's also rooted in the cultural 'memory' of the plague that ravaged Europe. All our fantasies seem to center around devastating explosions and plague pandemics - we are re-living past experiences of our species that were on the order of living nightmares.]

What is new (for me) is Talbot's ideas regarding Saturn/Venus/Mars. The seminal idea was in an unpublished work of Velikovsky', as it turns outs. Talbot did the leg-work over decades. I have an archaeology (minor) background and I absolutely resonate to the art evidence from out the ancient past. What I find interesting is his observation that we have evidence of extremely precise, naturalistic cave drawings of animals by ancient man that then get replaced by odd symbols and abstract renderings of the human form.

Where does all this leave ancient aliens? IMO there were none in the way that is being touted. What there is in fact is a past of a kind that we are not prepared to accept because the science has been so adamant - but mistaken none-the-less (imo).
 
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