Aliens on the Moon? (oh my!)

[Constance]

A straightforward question, whose context should be clear.

 

[Tyger]

A straightforward question, whose context should be clear.

Well, it's not clear. Are you policing this thread? Just wondering.

 

[Constance]

What's up, Constance? I think I've posted once to this (other times on Buzz Aldrin) - and this is a point I did not make before. Besides which - what is the problem?

I've sensed a repeated overkill in your comments over several days concerning the moon anomalies documentary. You're entitled to your opinion of course, but your repeating it yet again at this point seems gratuitous.

 

[Tyger]

I've sensed a repeated overkill in your comments over several days concerning the moon anomalies documentary. You're entitled to your opinion of course, but your repeating it yet again at this point seems gratuitous.

I see. I assume you feel better having said so. So saying I still will state my views freely. Thank you.

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

Now let's all get along folks and remember 1980s film what was the name of the gatekeeper? The moon anomalies are strange and more likely to listen to Dr Brandenburg and he has been in the known on Moon missions! Hope the great minds behind the scene would be looking at these odd things ? Unless it's like another story how close we came to being fried?
Solar storm nearly destroyed Earth two years ago | News.com.au

 

[Ron Collins]

Sorry that I am just now entering the discussion on this topic. Huge looming deadlines at work have dominated my time lately.

Though I am frustrated with parts of how it turned out, I am glad to see that a show about lunar anomalies was made. Don has been working for a LONG time to get something like this made and I am very happy for him. Until the last part and the badgering of Buzz Aldrin, I thought it was pretty good. It definitely would start some conversations.

Anyway, for my part, (small as it was) I only wish they had continued with the rest of my point. Put succinctly, I did introduce many features that were shown to me. I almost always started that with "Some people think this looks like..." and ended it with something like "But as we acquire higher resolution images over time most of these features go away. Not all, but the vast majority of them are unfortunate tricks of light and shadow." For the record, its my opinion that is the case with 99.9% of all lunar anomoly images I have ever seen and went looking for higher resolution images of.

There are exceptions. Don and I agree that the boulders are very interesting. I do not think they are lunar mining machines but they are certainly anomalous. The sheer scale of them is astounding. they look like small rocks. These things are over 100 ft wide and those tracks are almost 3 miles long. No obvious reason why it would move has been satisfactorily explained. (At least none that satisfy me)

Though I think the image of the "4 wheels" deserves more attention, I have never been able to lock down its coordinates. I would love to look at that one more closely. Other than these I do not find much else all that compelling.

Like Trainedobserver I was a little shocked that Manilius crater was not identified properly and that, in my opinion, they tried to make it sound like it was taken from a space mission. When you look at that crater with higher resolution images those tricks of light and shadow completely go away and there is nothing anomalous about it. I know that Don disagrees with us on that and that is fine. Friends can disagree. It doesn't mean we think any less of one another.

The thing that bothered me the most was the short changing of Buzz Aldrin's story. I would have been happier if he would have been given the opportunity to complete his story. Most of us here have heard it at least 5 times before. But, some folks have not heard it before. My mother was convinced, until I set her straight the next day, that Aldrin was saying that he saw an alien spaceship following them to the moon. To me, that was very disingenuous. I get Don's point about having paid Aldrin to look at photos only to have him refuse to look at them. If they told him that part of his pay was for looking at photos and he refused, then the Producers have a right to be upset about that. That said, it was not exactly a fair set of circumstances. He was damned if he did and damned if he didn't. He sure as hell was not going to say that they were photos of alien bases. The Producers knew that going in. Knowing that, I think that if Aldrin looked at the photos he could only provide more fuel to the conspiracy fires. They would analyze and emphasize every pregnant pause and furrowing of the brow.

I was completely shocked at how little footage they used from Edgar Mitchell and how much they used from Mike Bara and Nick Redfern. My opinion of Bara is very low. I can't believe that Bara's ziggurat crap is still being tossed around out there. Jeez! He's like Hoaglands "Mini Me".

The last bit about the alien and secret mission was complete bullshit. It destroyed the entire thing I am sorry to say. I had family and neighbors watching the show. Most have never given the subject the smallest thought. ALL of them said that it was compelling in parts right up to that part. Now, the entire subject is a joke to them. Believe me, I have heard more than a few of the jokes since Sunday night.

Its too bad. They spent too much time on the nonsense and not enough time on the good stuff. Hell they barely even mentioned LTP. You could do an entire show on that alone.

 

[owlman]

Very well said Ron! It IS too bad about the alien mummy bullshit, but I'm going to lay the blame on the head honcho who thought that it would cause a stir, and it has...for all the WRONG reasons. Alien Autopsy anyone?

 

[Vance]

Ron Collins, nice over all critique. Not everyone is aware that with enough tape to edit you could have Yasser Arafat saying Golda Meir and he were secret lovers. Robert Kiviat is not Tracy Torme, James Fox, or Ron Collins. I guess credit where due he knew what would sell and got it warts and all on the air.

 

[Burnt State]

...And unless he entirely lacks curiosity, he would have asked to see the photos long ago. Is it possible that he and the other astronauts were in fact not involved in their analysis?

So what is up with Aldrin's volunteering partial information about moon anomalies {Phobos} and backing away from discussing his point of view on others on Luna in public media interviews?

I felt that Aldrin was all about curiosity, despite the mutational editing that hapoens with shows of this sort. His desire to pursue the anomaly on Phobos, which is obviously an anomaly that he feels confident in talking about, was expressed purely as a desire to know. It seemed that he was very interested to go to Phobos for the sake of finding out what was there, be it alien technology or strange geology that inspires the seeker.

I don't know what to make of the Mona Lisa footage. That part might be fiction, bizarre enough to cause the entire Apollo 20 mission to be dismissed as fiction for those who resist disclosure for one reason or another. At the same time, there are elements of the Mona Lisa footage that seem intended to reduce fear of extraterrestrials in anyone who might see it {the beauty of the figure's face, the fact that this is a woman, the serenity and even spirituality that her face expresses}. If this footage was hoaxed, it was the work of minds and sensitivities more complex (and perhaps more informed) than the minds of typical hoaxers.

In any event, there is considerable historical evidence to suggest that the secret Apollo 20 mission could indeed have been undertaken by three courageous individuals, two Americans and one Russian, to answer a question that exceeded the mundane interests of both countries' insiders.

What I find fascinating about this footage posted originally on April Fool's Day, and including some bad compositing (see floating torso above) people investigating alien bodies with bare hands instead of hazmat suits, and calculated edits for the insertion of the Mona image up against other still images, is how it has wormed its way into the consciousness of the internet. If anything, what it has achieved, like the power of any repeated hoax, is that no matter how many lies, errors, or invented personalities are involved, it will continue to have legs, and probably persist as yet another example of how the hoaxer and the perpetuator of stories can together create the illusion of alien astronauts in our solar system. We can say absolutely the same thing about the Turkey Aliens on Deck video images. They have been debunked thoroughly and yet continue to persist as examples, for some, of aliens among us.

The 'alien' sculptures, probably by Thierry Speth, are obvious constructions and appear to be influenced by H.R. Giger's Brain Salad Surgery album cover. And it would take a brain surgeon to wade through all the fatty tissue that is so much of ufology to get to those very rare cases that are truly anomalous, and not just camera tricks or shifts in light & perception.

This Giger image went missing after being put on display. It, along with the astronaut with his legs cut off in the lazy compositing from the video seen above, are the real clues to the nature of the hoaxer. The consequences of hoaxing and repeating untruths do have deeper consequences for ufology as a whole, none of which are positive and we're living it right here & now.

 

[Tyger]

What I find fascinating about this footage posted originally on April Fool's Day, and including some bad compositing (see floating torso above) people investigating alien bodies with bare hands instead of hazmat suits, and calculated edits for the insertion of the Mona image up against other still images, is how it has wormed its way into the consciousness of the internet.

Yes!

If anything, what it has achieved, like the power of any repeated hoax, is that no matter how many lies, errors, or invented personalities are involved, it will continue to have legs, and probably persist as yet another example of how the hoaxer and the perpetuator of stories can together create the illusion of alien astronauts in our solar system. We can say absolutely the same thing about the Turkey Aliens on Deck video images. They have been debunked thoroughly and yet continue to persist as examples, for some, of aliens among us. [...] it would take a brain surgeon to wade through all the fatty tissue that is so much of ufology to get to those very rare cases that are truly anomalous, and not just camera tricks or shifts in light & perception.

And that's the sad tragedy of this wasted opportunity. Tagging on all the nonsense immediately calls into question the integrity - or at least 'critical thinking' - of the creators of the piece. Making it about 'entertainment' is bogus because the 2-hour show I referenced above about the 5% anomalous ufo sightings has been around for a awhile and is solid entertainment while at the same time disseminating what appears to be solid information. What 'solid information' was relayed in this show? Hard to tell for anyone new to the topic.

The consequences of hoaxing and repeating untruths do have deeper consequences for ufology as a whole, none of which are positive and we're living it right here & now.

Absolutely. It's why the topic can't be taken seriously by sensible people. Too many wanting to believe and willing to do anything to tweak the presentation in order to convey the impression desired.

Now what I am ready for is a serious look at the 5% moon anomalies that stay anomalies regardless. But it will take a considerably sober approach to make me give this topic a serious nod.

 

[Tyger]

Ron Collins, nice over all critique. Not everyone is aware that with enough tape to edit you could have Yasser Arafat saying Golda Meir and he were secret lovers. Robert Kiviat is not Tracy Torme, James Fox, or Ron Collins. I guess credit where due he knew what would sell and got it warts and all on the air.

This is an important point for anyone to be aware of - that once you allow someone to videotape your actions and words, you have given them a 'palette of colors' that they can work with in any way they desire. Video is not truth. The editor is god.

Buzz Aldrin sussed out the situation methinks - and stopped dead in his tracks. I respect the man for not being willing to be used more than he clearly already was. Hope he was paid well for his trouble.

 

[Constance]

I felt that Aldrin was all about curiosity, despite the mutational editing that hapoens with shows of this sort. His desire to pursue the anomaly on Phobos, which is obviously an anomaly that he feels confident in talking about, was expressed purely as a desire to know. It seemed that he was very interested to go to Phobos for the sake of finding out what was there, be it alien technology or strange geology that inspires the seeker.

I think it's clear that Aldrin is curious about moon and space anomalies and what their origin might be. I also think it's clear that there are frustrating limits to what he can or will say about what he might know or suspect concerning this subject. By now I think it's pointless to hope that he will be as forthcoming about his own reasoned speculations on the subject as Edgar Mitchell, Gordon Cooper, and other US astronauts, as well as some Russian cosmonauts, have been.

What I find fascinating about this footage posted originally on April Fool's Day, and including some bad compositing (see floating torso above) people investigating alien bodies with bare hands instead of hazmat suits, and calculated edits for the insertion of the Mona image up against other still images, is how it has wormed its way into the consciousness of the internet. If anything, what it has achieved, like the power of any repeated hoax, is that no matter how many lies, errors, or invented personalities are involved, it will continue to have legs, and probably persist as yet another example of how the hoaxer and the perpetuator of stories can together create the illusion of alien astronauts in our solar system. We can say absolutely the same thing about the Turkey Aliens on Deck video images. They have been debunked thoroughly and yet continue to persist as examples, for some, of aliens among us.

The 'alien' sculptures, probably by Thierry Speth, are obvious constructions and appear to be influenced by H.R. Giger's Brain Salad Surgery album cover. And it would take a brain surgeon to wade through all the fatty tissue that is so much of ufology to get to those very rare cases that are truly anomalous, and not just camera tricks or shifts in light & perception.

This Giger image went missing after being put on display. It, along with the astronaut with his legs cut off in the lazy compositing from the video seen above, are the real clues to the nature of the hoaxer. The consequences of hoaxing and repeating untruths do have deeper consequences for ufology as a whole, none of which are positive and we're living it right here & now.

My impression of the various youtube videos posted on the Apollo 20 and Mona Lisa episodes is that we likely do not know the actual identities of those who posted all of them. It remains possible that some of the information provided by William Rutledge was true. As I recall discussions at the time, Rutledge would have been quite elderly, purportedly living somewhere in Africa, and perhaps reliant on others including the French cinematographer to propagate the core information he wanted to share. I followed the subject as propagated in youtube videos for some time but not all the way to the end. My recollection is that not much was learned about the French cinematographer or any others that might have been involved in the circus surrounding this subject. I don't put all of this up to William Rutledge, who last I heard could not be located, essentially seemed to disappear. I think there might be a grain of truth in Rutledge's core disclosure about a secret mission to investigate the possible craft on the far side of the moon, hopelessly lost in a crossfire of disinformation. It makes sense that both the Americans and Russians would want to find out the nature of the object photographed by Apollo 15. A secret mission might have been the only way to accomplish that investigation without calling attention to a possible alien presence at some time on the moon.

 

[Burnt State]

An even better question is, "Does William Rutledge even exist?" or did he ever?

We know Thierry Speth does, and that his sculptural techniques bear some resemblance to Mona EBE. Unfortunately almost all trace of his original video, his eBay purchases of NASA paraphernalia, his interview and confession to the hoax have been scrubbed clean from the net. So all that's left is an obviously hoaxed video and an accompanying wild story about a space mission that never happened. It has grown speculative wings of its own despite the lack of evidence. I don't thnk that there's anywhere to go with that. Repeating it is to engage in the building of Ufological mythology.

Is there really anything there that has been photographed on the moon that would cause a covert mission to be unleashed or does that just sound more like a sci-fi/x-files plot?

 

[Constance]

Yes! . . . . What 'solid information' was relayed in this show? Hard to tell for anyone new to the topic.

'Solid information' about anomalies on the moons Luna and Phobos is not easily obtained. Only a handful of humans have walked on Luna, none on Phobos. The rest of us are left with photographic imagery, and a portion of that imagery suggests the presence of some fairly large-scale anomalies. A two-hour video could only present an introduction to those possible anomalies, and the video you're trashing did note the limitations of what various cameras have captured, the ambiguity of what can be seen in the photographs, and the various responses of people who have studied them. For many people, including you, the video seems to have constituted an introduction to the subject of lunar anomalies. I think it serves well as an introduction to the subject for those who have not pursued it before and also provided an updating of research and opinions on the most interesting apparent anomalies. Many people coming to the subject of lunar anomalies for the first time in this video have no doubt been moved to investigate the subject further, perhaps to participate in future research concerning it.

And that's the sad tragedy of this wasted opportunity. Tagging on all the nonsense immediately calls into question the integrity - or at least 'critical thinking' - of the creators of the piece. . . .

I think that judgment is overly harsh.

Absolutely. It's why the topic can't be taken seriously by sensible people.
.

Again, far too harsh. The topic of lunar anomalies is indeed taken seriously (and long has been) by many sensible people, inside and outside NASA, as was demonstrated in the video itself. This last comment, btw, also insults and demeans a number of people posting here on this forum (in particular, again, Don Ecker). I don't see these immoderate reactions as appropriate, let alone necessary.

 

[Tyger]

An even better question is, "Does William Rutledge even exist?" or did he ever?

We know Thierry Speth does, and that his sculptural techniques bear some resemblance to Mona EBE. Unfortunately almost all trace of his original video, his eBay purchases of NASA paraphernalia, his interview and confession to the hoax have been scrubbed clean from the net. So all that's left is an obviously hoaxed video and an accompanying wild story about a space mission that never happened. It has grown speculative wings of its own despite the lack of evidence. I don't thnk that there's anywhere to go with that. Repeating it is to engage in the building of Ufological mythology.

Agree absolutely - and imo the unfounded speculation needs to be named and identified whenever it occurs. Maybe if the outcry is sufficiently negative, we will start to get more substantial and serious explorations.

Is there really anything there that has been photographed on the moon that would cause a covert mission to be unleashed or does that just sound more like a sci-fi/x-files plot?

Not from what I have seen, either in this presentation or elsewhere. Not yet, anyway. It's always possible something will turn up in the future but it looks highly unlikely at this point.

 

[Constance]

An even better question is, "Does William Rutledge even exist?" or did he ever?

As I recall both Rutledge and the other American, a woman, were known by various people in the US space program. Both were employed in organizations attached to or consulting with NASA. If I recall correctly, both worked at one point at Bell labs.

We know Thierry Speth does, and that his sculptural techniques bear some resemblance to Mona EBE. Unfortunately almost all trace of his original video, his eBay purchases of NASA paraphernalia, his interview and confession to the hoax have been scrubbed clean from the net.

As we know, anyone can set up accounts on the internet, with eBay, etc., and post 'confessions' under a variety of names. I was not following the case at the point when eBay purchases were claimed and did not see Speth's confession to the hoax. I'd like to see it now if you have a link in your archives.

So all that's left is an obviously hoaxed video and an accompanying wild story about a space mission that never happened. It has grown speculative wings of its own despite the lack of evidence. I don't thnk that there's anywhere to go with that. Repeating it is to engage in the building of Ufological mythology.

I agree that we can't rely on the videos that were introduced on youtube. We don't actually know whether a mission referred to as Apollo 20 by William Rutledge took place. I don't think we know what his relationship with Thierry Speth was either. Any number of unidentified people with differing agendas might have been involved in the internet representations concerning Apollo 20.

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

Apollo 20 stuff looks totally fake and quality of the film smells ?

 

[Soupie]

The topic of lunar anomalies is indeed taken seriously (and long has been) by many sensible people, inside and outside NASA, as was demonstrated in the video itself.

Alien Artifacts On The Moon? - Forbes

There are good reasons to seriously consider the possibility that at some point in the Earth-Moon system’s storied 4.5 billion year-old history, an alien intelligence may have passed through our solar system; leaving physical artifacts of their visits.

Note the source.

 

[Constance]

Yes. 'Sensible and serious people' indeed, and far more informed than the average bear.:

". . .
There are good reasons to seriously consider the possibility that at some point in the Earth-Moon system’s storied 4.5 billion year-old history, an alien intelligence may have passed through our solar system; leaving physical artifacts of their visits.
These artifacts would likely entail more than just alien space trash, and would arguably include evidence of alien scientific or industrial activity, such as extremely advanced lunar mining, energy generation; even technology related to lunar nearside Earth reconnaissance.

Or so says Paul Davies, a longtime SETI (Search for Extraterrestial Intelligence) researcher, physicist, and now Director of the Beyond Center at Arizona State University in Tempe.

The NASA Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

At least one related paper on the subject is due to be presented at the September meeting of the UK SETI Research Network, a group of mainstream British academicians. But even a decade ago, talk of alien lunar artifacts was mostly beyond the ken of anything remotely resembling the mainstream astronomical community.

With the success of crowdsourcing, citizen science initiatives such as SETI@home; Einstein@home; and Cosmology@home however, Davies and a handful of other serious scientific researchers are now advocating marrying crowdsourcing analysis with the images now being catalogued by NASA’s Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter (LRO).

Since 2009, LRO has been measuring lunar landforms down to half meter resolution; in the process targeting more than 10,000 lunar sites and covering up to 90 percent of the lunar surface. The mission’s current success has resulted in a treasure trove of thousands of very high resolution images, almost all of which could be searched via an citizen science initiative.

Davies thinks the ideal lunar survey would not only include a search for optical anomalies but would go beyond the breadth of LRO’s own mission to include searches for evidence of alien lunar industrial activity.

“[Evidence of past] mining or quarrying could show up in gravimetry or magnetic surveys, even if an ancient mine was buried under the lunar regolith,” said Davies. “We could detect [alien] nuclear waste perhaps from a lunar satellite by looking for localized gamma ray sources from the lunar surface.”

A crowdsource lunar image analysis initiative might use Tomnod-type search software in the same way that volunteers were recruited to search satellite imaging for the missing Malaysian 777.

Davies says at some stage any search needs to be automated and use state-of-the-art software.

“In searching for artifacts, one is looking for ‘something fishy’,” said Davies. “But ‘fishiness’ requires a human decision in advance about a signature of artificiality. There are some simple examples, like right angle edges. But we have little idea what million year-old technology might look like.”

Yet Andrew Siemion, a research astronomer at the University of California at Berkeley, says citizen science projects involving image analysis are relatively straightforward to set up.

“Professional astronomers sometimes suffer from the tendency to discount anything other than our expected signal as instrumental noise or some kind of interference,” said Siemion. “When identifying the unexpected, the eye of an amateur citizen scientist can be just as effective, if not more so, than that of a conditioned professional.”

Volunteers sifting through images as part of a crowdsourcing effort, could make their efforts dual purpose. That is, they might look for orange pyroclastic rocks or even residual vulcanism at the same time they would look for artificial anomalies.

Davies says a search for lunar artifacts should be combined with a search for unusual geological features. However improbable, Davies says planetary scientists need to keep their eyes open for non-random anomalies; even ones on the moon and scrutinize their respective databases to “keep an eye out” for putative signatures of alien technology.

A 1995 academic paper by Ukrainian radio astronomer Alexey Arkhipov argues that only artifacts larger than one meter in size would be found on the lunar surface; with objects smaller than that buried by meters of regolith due to the lunar surface’s continual bombardment by micrometeorites.

Even so, Davies says, the moon is an attractive environment to search for artifacts because they would be preserved for much longer than on Earth (or Mars Mars). “On Earth, human artifacts get buried in centuries,” said Davies. “On the Moon it takes millions or tens of millions of years.”

However, Davies thinks the case for jettisoned material or junk is stronger than a gadget deliberately left for what might be an unknown and truly immense duration.
Arkhipov argued that the peak of the southern wall of the moon’s nearside crater “Malapert” would make a logical site for alien reconnaissance of Earth, since our planet can always be seen from there.

“Given that the moon is a big place, it pays to narrow the search by such educated guesses,” said Davies. “Lunar lava tubes would preserve artifacts and also provide an attractive location for equipment to be shielded from ultraviolet radiation and meteorites.”

When would alien probes have first arrived in our solar system?

Because Earth is only about a third of the age of the universe, habitable planets in the galaxy could thus have emerged at least 8 billion years ago, says Davies. So, he notes it’s likely that if alien technology ever entered our solar system, it happened a long time ago. Assuming that the number of technological extraterrestrial civilizations remain uniform over time, then Davies says it’s still arguable that our solar system has been visited at least once during that 8 billion year timeframe.

Thus, Davies reasons that the average expectation for a visit is of the order 4 billion years ago and later. But he says even a 100 million years ago is optimistically the most recent timeframe for their arrival. And to think they’ve been here since the dawn of recorded human civilization, he says, would be pretty much a statistical impossibility.

However you cut the numbers, says Davies, you would not expect “recent” visits.
In any event, Davies doesn’t expect that there have been any visits by flesh and blood entities and if there were, he reckons they would have moved on. In the event biological entities did travel to actually colonize a new planet, Davies says they would likely pick one without burgeoning life forms, due to difficulties co-habitating with any existing biology.

“My position is that biological intelligence is but a transitory phase in the evolution of intelligence in the universe,” said Davies. “Why dispatch fragile biological entities on a hazardous journey across the vastness of space when almost all the intellectual heavy lifting, let alone the physical grunt work, will be done by designed systems?”

And Davies says if such a system happened to enter our solar system, for reasons we cannot even imagine, it may either “stay, go, or multiply.”

Of course, in science fiction, the most famous alien artifact was the enigmatic monolith envisioned in Arthur C. Clarke’s “2001: A Space Odyssey.” In the novel and subsequent film, the monolith appears to reactivate after being found just a few meters under the lunar regolith.

SETI searchers have long considered the possibility that dormant alien probes may have been sent to our solar system to wait as silent sentinels before our own technology wakes up to their possible presence. SETI researchers have even considered the possibility of beaming radio beacons to the Earth-Sun gravitational Lagrange points in hopes of “awakening” such unseen probes. That is, if they are out there.

In the last 40 years, before the advent of digital photon counters on telescopes, there were two relatively cursory searches within both the Earth-Sun and Earth-Moon Lagrange points, using comparatively small aperture optical telescopes at Kitt Peak, Arizona and Leuschner Observatory in California. Both failed to detect any such non-human artificial objects.

John Gertz, president of the California-based FIRSST (Foundation for Investing in Research on SETI Science and Technology) initiative, suggests conducting a radio search for a beacon within our own inner solar system that would have been activated at the probe’s first detection of Earth’s own electromagnetic leakage. He thinks it would now be broadcasting now at very low wattage and would have no message, other than the implied one, “I am here; and I am artificial.”

Likely smaller than a car, but larger than a grapefruit, Gertz says the payload, a virtual Encylopedia Galactica — or their civilization’s complete history and knowledge — could be stored on a thumb drive which we would literally have to physically retrieve.
This, of course, assumes that the designers of such probes would have an innate desire to bare their alien souls to an emerging technology like ours.

“Physical encoding is a very efficient way of transmitting very large amounts of information from point-to-point,” said Siemion. “So, it is entirely possible that an advanced civilization might choose to disseminate large amounts of information via encoded physical artifacts.”

There may even be more than one such probe waiting for us.

“There is no reason to believe that only one civilization has sent a probe; there may be a variety of probes out there,” said Gertz."

 

[Burnt State]

As I recall both Rutledge and the other American, a woman, were known by various people in the US space program. Both were employed in organizations attached to or consulting with NASA. If I recall correctly, both worked at one point at Bell labs.

All information regarding the supposed American astronauts comes from a YouTube comments interview conducted by the Italian reporter who is the sole contact for Rutledge following his videos. And while the two supposed American astronauts may be real names of real people, there is nothing connecting them to a real rocket to the moon. All of the info to be found stems from the YouTube interview - so basically one story has been repeated exponentially online, and they never should have been, but those fake videos have given birth to something that has now been validated by this television broadcast. That's kind of sad actually, as it invalidates the core premise of the show if they're going to close with someone's hoaxed video.

So with one false story, and some hoaxing, a legend is born. And what's interesting is that inevitably some other anonymous digital identity then came out online to validate Leona and William as astronauts that were still all in contact, like any of it was real to begin with. Is this how Roswell began - a staged event, that others jumped on top of? At least there you have real live human beings to talk with, unlike this complete fabrication. Regarding connecting links to the artist in question - as I said, there's scant evidence of his participation but it's around and at least that has more legimacy and plausibility than the entire Apollo 20 concoction. Reading the original YouTube 'babble' interview is also rather telling.