DavidRavenMoon
anonymous anomalous
Fine, so don't start off by telling someone to chill. That was condescending. I was answering your post in a intelligent civil manner, so don't come back with the "yo yo yo chill" crap. You can't always get a response the way you want. If I was annoyed by you using some goofy stage magicians as credible debunkers of abduction experiencers, when then so be it. That's part of debating these subjects.
You wanted me to chillax, and I wanted you to use your brain. I wasn't calling you a moron, just trying to make you avoid sounding like one.
"Dude speak" is a terrible thing. That and the misused word "awesome".What is your criterion for "decent proof"? Personal experience and eyewitness testimony isn't good enough?
So if you saw something, but didn't get a photo, video, or a chunk of the thing, you would dismiss your own experience due to lack of "proof"?
I'm open to anything, but I'm past the point of trying to debunk these things, because there is ample evidence that something is going on, plus I have had my own experiences starting from when I was about 4 years old.
None of these people have proven that real abductees have not experienced what they said they had. Eyewitness testimony can land you in prison or the gas chamber. So it often holds up in a court of law, but not when it comes to the paranormal?
That's being guilty until proven innocent!
No, I never said in the known Universe. I said known to human science. Big difference. When scientist see something they don't understand, they try and figure it out. They don't set out to debunk it.
Did you know that astronomers have seen odd purple lights and other weird things in craters on the moon (TLP or Transient Lunar Phenomenon)? They don't know what caused these things. But they also don't go and try to debunk the other astronomer who saw it.
These debunkers are not scientist. Real scientist keep an open mind about things we don't understand.
I've said this before, but it bears repeating. My dad was born in July 1900. When he was 69 years old, he saw man land on the moon. In just 69 years his life went from horse and buggy, ice boxes, gas lamps, no airplanes, no TV, etc. to seeing people walking around on the moon.
My two kids, 17 and 4 years old, have never known a time without computers, DVDs and CDs. Everything has to be taken in the context of our experience.
So we are pretty young in the world of science. Scientist thought that they had all the answers with Newtonian physics, until quantum mechanics came along to answer problems they were observing with their own eyes, but couldn't figure out. And they still can't figure it out. And some stuff you can't even observe. That's the real world, not the Penn and Teller trick world. The bottom line is we are still trying to figure everything out, and don't let someone try and tell you otherwise.
Albert Einstein said:
"Whether you can observe a thing or not depends on the theory which you use. It is the theory which decides what can be observed."
Plus, we can only see a tiny part of the Universe, and we will never see any more. The light hasn't gotten here from any farther back than about 5 billion years ago, and it never will, due to inflation. We don't know what's out there. And it could be endless.
So then what is it? The simplest, most obvious explanation is what is seen at face value. Now how we interpret that is based on how much we know about reality. If we are going to be open minded, we can't dismiss the idea that they are beings from some other world. Why would we dismiss that? We have just started being able to leave the Earth and walk around somewhere else, and that only took us abut 70 years after the industrial revolution. What will be be able to do 1,000 years from now? I say, things we can't even imagine!
It can scarcely be denied that the supreme goal of all theory is to make the irreducible basic elements as simple and as few as possible without having to surrender the adequate representation of a single datum of experience. --Albert Einstein
So if we are seeing objects that can do things that seem to defy the laws of physics, what does that say? It says that either these objects are so advanced that they seem like magic (as in Arthur C. Clarke's "third law"), or we don't understand enough about physics. Either way they know stuff we don't know.
We still get around using combustion engines. We blow things up. It's all brute force. We don't understand gravity much at all, and can't get it to fit into standard physics. So who's to say what we will learn over time that will change everything. (A teenager to her parents in the future: "Remember when people used to have to fly from here to there? How archaic!"
)Take the "cargo cult" phenomenon. From Wikipedia:
So when we were more primitive, we had stories of the Gods and other deities that were regular parts of our lives. These were not mythologies, these were real beings.
Now we see little gray beings, but still the same disc shaped objects, or comets as they used to call them.
So we can only try to rationalize them using what we know. Back then they were gods, now they are from another planet. It used to me the moon, and then Mars. I think they are from somewhere else, but probably they are not coming from some other planet by traveling through space, vast distances. We think that, because that's all we know.
Sagan was a pot smoking debunker. He was very closed minded. Many of his peers felt that way about him. I don't hold the pot smoking against him though, but I find it amusing. I'd much rather read anything by Jacques Vallée.
By the way, Sagan felt the moon was hollow, and possibly artificial.
Thank you!
No one is jumping the gun. Just as there have been credible eye witnesses to UFOs, there have been credible eye witnesses to non human entities and some have been taken from their homes and have had interactions with these entities. If people think that the entities are from another planet, it's often because the entities tell them that! Can we believe the entities? Who knows. I think they tell us a lot of stuff we want to hear.
You have never read reports were people see beings? These are often with the same siting of a UFO. If UFOs exist, and are machines of some kind, and they do seem intelligently controlled, what is controlling them?
That question is easy to answer, because people have seen some type of beings.
None of that explains what UFOs are, or where they are from, or what these beings are, but this is what has been reported many times by credible witnesses.
But I see no reason to dismiss people's abduction experiences. These ideas make us uncomfortable, but that's to be expected.
I also don't think we are being experimented on... I think it's something much stranger, and thats either what we are made to think, or all we can interpret from the experience.
