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12-9-07 show

Crow

Skilled Investigator
Really enjoyed the "talk shop" show. Thanks for sharing that Jersey UFO sighting David. I've heard about the black helicopters near UFO sightings but never the order to "go into your homes".
You guys ought to have a show on death/near death. Very interesting.
 

Loose Leaf Tea

Skilled Investigator
Yeah, thanks for the great show Gene, David. It went by too fast. I really appreciate you sharing your experiences, David, and can't believe anyone would think any less of you because of them.
I raise a full English cup of tea in your honour, sir, and thank you.
 

Miah

Skilled Investigator
David B,

That's an interesting experience indeed, the kind you hate to see fade away.

Are your parents still alive? It would be amazing to have them verify your sighting in some way.

Also, I think you should be able to use your old neighbors address to look up his full name and look him up today. It would be great to get his testimony.

Finally, how many more paranormal stories do you have left? Just so others can see that are not making them up later it would be good to just number what's left that you recall if possible. Perhaps just the UFO related ones at least.

Thanks.
 

CapnG

Devil's Advocate
A thoroughly enjoyable episode. David's comments about how the brain has no comparative for when it sees something like an object accelerating away at unheard of speeds reminded me of what he had said in his previous recounting about how the brain and the eyes get into an argument about what exactly it is that they're looking at.

That was certainly the case the one and only time I've seen a UFO. The fascination and the fear walk hand-in-hand, you can't stop staring but at the same time as your brain continues to flip through it's mental rolodex desperately seeking a logical explanation the anxiety level continues to increase.

The weirdest part (and perhaps it was like this for you too, David) is the equally strange combination of relief and dissapointment when the thing goes away!

On the subject of noiselessness, I dimly recall reading many years ago in OMNI, or Popular Science or some such magazine about research being done into airframes that deflected the sonic booms they created away from the ground, making them appear silent to anyone below the aircraft but I find that such things tend not to apply. There always seems to be some aircraft that can hover silently, fly at great speeds or reach tremendous altitudes with little effort that debunkers will point to and say "It was this that you saw". The trouble is, those planes can only do that thing while UFOs tend to be all-of-the-above.
 

David Biedny

Paranormal Adept
Miah,

Both of my parents are deceased.

I have no idea of how to track down Mr. Ferris (I'm not even sure if this is how his name is spelled), but I doubt he'd still be alive. He was older than my father, who would be in his late eighties if he were still among the living.

While I understand your point about listing my paranormal episodes, it simply won't happen, as I am not seeking confirmation from the Paracast audience - or anyone else - as to the veracity of my experiences. I'm not trying to be arrogant, it's just that I know what happened to me, I was there, and the idea that folks do or don't believe in them is completely and absolutely separate from the reality of the experiences. I'm not seeking acceptance or reverence, I'm just sharing the details of what happened to me. I have no answers, and I don't claim to actually understand the how, what and why.

I know this comes off harsh, but the written word lacks the subtleties of body language and vocal inflection. If there's anything I hope comes through about me on the show, it's that I don't give much thought to what people think of me, I've always been highly independent and opinionated. I'll probably be this way to the end of my days, even if it's not necessarily the best way for me to live my life.

Did I mention that I was ridiculously stubborn? 8)

dB
 

Mothra

Oh, I see what you did there
David and Gene - Thanks to the both of you for opening yourselves up to your audience. have you ever thought about having forum members on the show? maybe something on the forums detailing some of our experiences and you guys pick someone every once in a while to discuss it on the show. I've myself have had 3 very life changing things happen to me, 2 of which were UFO related and quite frankly they pale in comparison to the 3rd thing that happened my junior year in high school.It was absolutely horrific. I've told the story to a few people and I didn't believe the words coming out of mouth as I was telling it. I had a witness (My cat) and trust me it validated what was happening. after the ordeal was over, I was sick for a week from the adrenalin that got pumped through my body. man let me tell you i have never experienced any type of Fear like that since and being 42 If I went through it again I would probably drop dead.

Thanks for keeping it real and honest.
 

Miah

Skilled Investigator
David Biedny said:
Miah,

I have no idea of how to track down Mr. Ferris (I'm not even sure if this is how his name is spelled), but I doubt he'd still be alive. He was older than my father, who would be in his late eighties if he were still among the living.

If you can just give me the address you lived at at the time, which side of you his house was on and the year, I think I can at least get his full name. From there who knows what we might find, perhaps a relative he shared the experience with.

David Biedny said:
While I understand your point about listing my paranormal episodes, it simply won't happen, as I am not seeking confirmation from the Paracast audience - or anyone else - as to the veracity of my experiences.

I was hoping for a simple number rather than a list of the experiences. The point is if you came up with a new experience every few months people are going to start talking shit. But if you've given a number up front, people can at least gauge just how crazy things have been around you through your life, and what might possibly be revealed to us at some point.

Though I understand that you don't care about what people think, without a number one could speculate that you have had tons of experiences, which would make one wonder if they were somehow psychological in nature. You've also gone this far in revealing some very off-the-wall stuff, a skeptic might ask why trickle out the rest?

I feel comfortable in saying that you seem very genuine about your experiences, and I really appreciate you sharing them with us. I have never seen anything that I could consider paranormal, and am here seeking answers from those who have, and those who study it. I would be a fool not to still be skeptical about the whole subject from my limited perspective.
 

Chuckleberryfinn

Paranormal Maven
Very fun show, yes. Jacques Vallee has had a sighting like yours, Mr. Biedny. I've heard him discuss a disc flying over his house when he was a child. His mom saw it and called him thither to see it.

If I saw something up close like that, I would probably blow an astonishment fuse. That is, I'd be so astonished that nothing would astonish me anymore.

Imagine what Lonnie Zamora felt like. That must really unhinge a person for a while, seeing something like that in broad daylight while you're awake. He was a witness to one of the humanoid sightings with a landed craft. There was physical trace evidence involved. The case was investigated by Hynek, who thinks very highly of Zamora and the quality of this case. (The UFO Experience, pg. 165-167).
 

Crow

Skilled Investigator
Chuckleberryfinn - I've met Mr. Zamora (I was born and raised in Socorro NM) when I was a kid and he told me about his sighting. Completely credible. Nice guy too. Although now he refuses to talk about it because of all the negative attention.
 

BrandonD

Skilled Investigator
Just finished listening to the episode, and thought I'd comment on some of the topics thrown around.

First of all, I can definitely relate to the bad teeth situation. My family have hereditarily awful teeth also, and I just recently got 2 of them extracted. So I'm in hillbillly mode for a week or so until I get them replaced with new fake teeth.

Also, I'd certainly be willing to bet that the different social climate in other cultures contibutes to a greater open-ness on the ufo subject. Judging from my trip to Peru, other cultures certainly seem to be much more social than we are here in the states. They were doing things I've never even conceived of people doing.

For example, since it was so inexpensive there I was staying in the best hotel in the city, which overlooked the main town square. This town square basically consisted of a few fountains and benches and walkways. And I noticed from my window that every evening as the sun went down, crowds of people literally just walked out into the square and stood around talking.

The night I arrived in Peru I first saw this out the window as I was getting undressed for bed. I was so confounded that I put my clothes back on and went outside to see what was going on. Here in the states, people only go out if they're going to "do something". We go watch a movie, we go out to eat, we go to a club, etc. Over there, people would go to the town square for no other reason than to apparently just enjoy each other's company.

Can anyone here imagine Americans acting that way? Getting up from in front of the TV to go to an area where nothing in particular is going on? You're not running any errands, you're not walking your dog or multi-tasking in any way, you're just going to a communal place to be in the company of other people. It was really a weird and astounding thing to see.

Having said all that, I wouldn't conclude "that's what's wrong with America today", because this particular behavior of Americans seems more like a symptom than a cause.

And if I were asked what it was a symptom of, I'd answer "a symptom of the irrationally high cowardice of white people". And I'd be half-joking.

As for David's story, all I can say is wow. Thanks for sharing David.

As for the idea you guys discussed about other people desiring this "contact", I feel there is quite alot more that could be said on that subject. But I'm noticing this post is getting very long so I'll probably just butt in later during someone else's conversation on that subject.

Anyway great show guys, the paracast is always the first on the monday podcast list when I start my work for the day.
 

Frootloop

Nutball
Yes, thanks for another great show. Its great to hear you guys discussing matters with each other although Gene did go especially quiet somewhere in the middle though "gene, are you there gene? gene? gene?" hahaha

Poor Mr Ferris, putting a dent in his car with a lawnmower. Im guessing that his insurance didnt cover the repair given the circumstances ;)

What strikes me here are the simularities between this and other cases where UFOs have been spotted by a community. The sudden appearance of a helicopter, a lack of interest from the media or police authorities. There does appear to be an air of denial about the whole subject even when there ae multiple witnesses involved. The appearance of the dark, unmarked helicopter does indicate that "someone" knows a great deal about the existance and possibly motive of these phenomena/craft and even today there are reports of these aircraft appearing during or after sightings.

With regards to televison, we do appear to be a society of obsessed tv watching individuals, at least in the UK and from what I hear of it, the US also. People are scrambling to go and buy the latest in HUGE screen technology to display the endless drivel that is "entertainment" - its the same crap, only bigger. I watch very little tv now, only the odd show really as I consider it to be biased, drip fed nonsense. A large section of the population could possibly evolve to lose the power of independent thought and reasoning as they simply wont need to use those skills thanks to TV. The same people will never wander outside to enjoy the company and conversation of others as all the products and services they could ever crave or need will be delivered to their door and paid for electronically. It will all become very sterile..... ;)
 
V

Verum

Guest
Interesting show. I especially enjoyed the ongoing theme of David's patented "behind the back" and well-spun attacks on me (you do amaze me with your thin skinned nature), George Noory, Art Bell, Americans, and on and on. Since you continue to feel licensed to pursue attacks on me, I will continue to feel free to respond.

As to your sighting, David. I live in Somerset County (not in Somerset, but probably a 15 minute drive from that town), NJ, and have for many years. Of course, I never heard or read anything about this event, and I was old enough in 1973 to have noticed. In any case, New Jersey is the most densely populated State in the country. A low flying helicopter, let alone a flying saucer, during daylight, or nighttime for that matter, would attract a lot of attention, and that would almost certainly draw attention to the UFO. Assuming even a modest number of people shared this sighting, why not document the event by doing some basic research? Check newspapers (there are tons of newspaper reports of flying objects in Jersey; hardly being squashed or censored), police reports (surely many people, not just your father, would have called the police, as they'd done with every other sighting), use FOIA (must be some report from the helicopter crew), etc. This sighting, as with your South American sighting, should be easily verified by published reports and public documents. There should be a modest level of reliable, objective evidence for these two events, something beyond anecdotes, at least at the same level you would demand of your guests. I suspect there is an answer here that has very little to do with a sighting of a "craft" and more to do with your recollection. (Note, for example, that your brother, who was emotionally impacted by this sighting, doesn't really remember it.)

I mention this because your facts regarding Koehler and Buchanan are less-than-accurate. For example, neither ever served as Press Secretary (they were in a completely separate role as Communications Director), Koehler was in the Reagan Administration for just 12 days not a year. You state facts with great assurance; unfortunately they are not always accurate. And when we get facts which actually can be vetted, they fall short. I don't think these are deliberate lies, but I think they do speak to the fallibility of recollection. And the Koehler "facts" related to an event which carried none of the emotional weight of a "flying object" sighting. The devil is always--and more-so as respects extraordinary claims--in the details.

By the way, your contention that your anecdotes are somehow "documented", or at least not hallucinations, because "how could thousands have shared the event?"... that's bothersome on several levels. First, we have only your word that there were other, objective (unrelated, and so, not influenced by you recollections) witnesses. Second, if you believe that then I assume you believe in the miracle of the spinning sun at Lourdes, predicted in advance and witnessed by an estimated 50,000 people.
 

Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
So you are going to dismiss David's experiences out of hand because he may, just may, have had a faulty memory about the positions occupied by Koehler and Buchanan? Really now!
 

Aaron LeClair

Paranormal Maven
Not sure how attacks on air is behind the back. I only listened to half the show so far, so not real sure what attacks Verum is referring to.

Often hosts don't wish to call people out who aren't in the public eye. Whether it's pro or con without checking with the person first. I don't know if this is David and Gene's stance, but just my guess.

From what I did hear, I enjoyed. I'll listen to the rest later.
 

Frootloop

Nutball
Verum said:
As to your sighting, David. I live in Somerset County (not in Somerset, but probably a 15 minute drive from that town), NJ, and have for many years. Of course, I never heard or read anything about this event, and I was old enough in 1973 to have noticed. In any case, New Jersey is the most densely populated State in the country. A low flying helicopter, let alone a flying saucer, during daylight, or nighttime for that matter, would attract a lot of attention, and that would almost certainly draw attention to the UFO. Assuming even a modest number of people shared this sighting, why not document the event by doing some basic research? Check newspapers (there are tons of newspaper reports of flying objects in Jersey; hardly being squashed or censored), police reports (surely many people, not just your father, would have called the police, as they'd done with every other sighting), use FOIA (must be some report from the helicopter crew), etc. This sighting, as with your South American sighting, should be easily verified by published reports and public documents. There should be a modest level of reliable, objective evidence for these two events, something beyond anecdotes, at least at the same level you would demand of your guests.

When was it? 1970s? Somerset County? - Perhaps some people did see it?

Quote from http://morningsentinel.mainetoday.com/news/local/3644978.html

[size=x-small]"Somerset County Sheriff Barry A. DeLong said he doesn't dismiss stories of UFOs, because he has seen one.

It happened back in the 1970s, when he was on patrol one night in Bingham.

"I didn't want to talk about it," DeLong said. "I didn't want people to think I was crazy."

DeLong said the lights he saw were not far from the ground.

"They were hovering about 15 feet from my cruiser, late at night," the sheriff said.

"It had fixed lights that were spinning. It was huge, and oval-shaped. I knew it wasn't a jet fighter. It slowly started backing off toward Sugarloaf, and then at a terrific speed."[/size]

Perhaps this isnt the same sighting, perhaps it is. It does however go to show that these reports were not taken seriously for a long time, and im still not sure if they are even now. As more and more people have the courage to report such things, the whole UFO phenomena will be less easiliy ridiculed, more reports will be taken seriously and eventually perhaps we will discover what some of these events actually represent.

I welcome such accounts of sightings and individual's experiences, and realise that its not ever easy to admit to such things in fear of ridicule, disbelief and even possible career damage. As more accounts of sightings and experiences come into the field, there are more and more simularities that appear, so many similar accounts cannot be ignored and eventually, perhaps the questions that are asked will be able to be answered.

Verum said:
I suspect there is an answer here that has very little to do with a sighting of a "craft" and more to do with your recollection. (Note, for example, that your brother, who was emotionally impacted by this sighting, doesn't really remember it.)

Can you remember stuff that happened when you were so young? Dont your memories fade? I for one cant remember everything that made me cry when I was small. David's brother was locked into a car all alone, he probably had very little experience of what was going on in the skies above.
 

Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
Verum said:
Gene wrote...
So you are going to dismiss David's experiences out of hand because he may, just may, have had a faulty memory about the positions occupied by Koehler and Buchanan? Really now!
That is not what I said. Perhaps I wasn't entirely clear. I'm suggesting that his recollections are not quite as "crisp" as his manner of conveying them would indiate. When I consider the lack of any objective verification, my personal knowledge of the area and its density and the the obvious "bending" of remembrances I think it is quite possible that he has misconstrued what he saw and has a flawed recollection of what actually happened. If one is not prepared to consider the possibility of an hallucination, or a series of hallucinations (which can be induced by many physical and psychological factors), I think that a misinterpretation of events, or a subsequent melding of facts and fiction, are posssibilities that need to be seriously considered.

FROOTLOOP--it appears you're referencing a sighting by a sheriff in Maine, not New Jersey. But surely one could find some degree of similar "corroboration" from a State which has 25 TIMES more potential witnesses per square mile than does Maine. You should also know that New Jersey's press has been extraordinarily free with publishing reports of UFOs, going back to the '60s.

PARANORMAL PACKRAT--when one controls the forum and does not extend a rebuttal opportunity to the subject of the attack in the same forum and at the same time, I think most people would say that's a "behind the back" assault. I think there are quite a few former guests who would share that assessment. But don't get me wrong. I fully expected it, and found the comments quite funny and entirely consistent. I only mentioned it to explain my unhealthy compulsion to respond.

First and foremost, speaking as someone who has heard about and not participated in these events, you have to remember that many of the encounters David reported involved multiple witnesses. The sighting in Venezuela, for example, where there were thousands of witnesses.

In saying that, I don't doubt that some might have been published. But David was a child at the time of some of these events, and thus wasn't apt to research it then. But he's curious now to learn more.
 

Frootloop

Nutball
Verum said:
FROOTLOOP--it appears you're referencing a sighting by a sheriff in Maine, not New Jersey. But surely one could find some degree of similar "corroboration" from a State which has 25 TIMES more potential witnesses per square mile than does Maine. You should also know that New Jersey's press has been extraordinarily free with publishing reports of UFOs, going back to the '60s.

oops, my bad.... im not great with US goegraphy as I live in the UK. The point regarding the sherrifs fear of being ridiculed as a reason for not talking about his earlier encounter is still very much valid however.
 

Miah

Skilled Investigator
To add to my last questions to David B, have you tried calling the newspaper about the Venezuela event? Here is their info: http://whois.domaintools.com/2001.com.ve
It would be amazing to have that!

Also have you ever been abducted?
 

Aaron LeClair

Paranormal Maven
I need to apologize to the forum and especially Verum, for forgetting I'm a mod. I went to quote one of Verums post, but hit edit instead and things got all screwy. Here is what I was able to salvage that Verum wrote. I hope it's all of it. Again, sorry Verum:

"That is not what I said. Perhaps I wasn't entirely clear. I'm suggesting that his recollections are not quite as "crisp" as his manner of conveying them would indiate. When I consider the lack of any objective verification, my personal knowledge of the area and its density and the the obvious "bending" of remembrances I think it is quite possible that he has misconstrued what he saw and has a flawed recollection of what actually happened. If one is not prepared to consider the possibility of an hallucination, or a series of hallucinations (which can be induced by many physical and psychological factors), I think that a misinterpretation of events, or a subsequent melding of facts and fiction, are posssibilities that need to be seriously considered.

FROOTLOOP--it appears you're referencing a sighting by a sheriff in Maine, not New Jersey. But surely one could find some degree of similar "corroboration" from a State which has 25 TIMES more potential witnesses per square mile than does Maine. You should also know that New Jersey's press has been extraordinarily free with publishing reports of UFOs, going back to the '60s.

PARANORMAL PACKRAT--when one controls the forum and does not extend a rebuttal opportunity to the subject of the attack in the same forum and at the same time, I think most people would say that's a "behind the back" assault. I think there are quite a few former guests who would share that assessment. But don't get me wrong. I fully expected it, and found the comments quite funny and entirely consistent. I only mentioned it to explain my unhealthy compulsion to respond."


I wasn't a mod at the time DBtrek thinks he got his post deleted, so don't blame that one on me! :)
 
V

Verum

Guest
Gene wrote...
The sighting in Venezuela, for example, where there were thousands of witnesses.

In saying that, I don't doubt that some might have been published. But David was a child at the time of some of these events, and thus wasn't apt to research it then. But he's curious now to learn more.
Agreed. I have never seen or read anything about this Venezuelan sighting. As described by David, this would have been an earth shattering event--huge, vanishing instantaneously, seen by thousands, etc. Where's the evidence? Simple, no? If any sighting should be easy to corroborate, this is it. Yet the only evidence is David's anecdote. That wouldn't suffice for any of your guests yet it's acceptable for David.

As to Paranormal Packrat deleting my prior post, you recovered it just fine. No harm, no foul, no apology necessary. (Fortunately, I'm not one of those conspiracists...but I'd best leave that alone for now!)
 

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