Health Care

[Angel of Ioren]

Since I live in another country, I have no real stake in any health care reform that is going on in the US. However, I'm amazed by some of the insane opposition there is against it, with some people going as far as calling Obama a Nazi.
As someone that lives in a "socialist" province (Quebec), I can say first hand that my quality of life is not compromised by the many government programs that are available to me. Do I pay a lot in taxes? Fuck yeah, but in the end, I come out on top and my worries and stress are reduced so much that I think that's worth it.
Something that's made me realize this is having a child. Our hospital stay (3 days) cost us a total of $0. Later on when my wife came down with a nasty infection due to breast feeding, her five day hospital stay and IV antibiotics cost us a total of $0. The peace of mind I had during that experience of not having to worry about any medical bills was well worth any taxes I need to pay.
Also, my wife being able to stay at home for 1 year and still get a large percentage of her pay is amazing, and the 6 weeks of paternity leave I got where the government paid 70% of my salary was extremely helpful.
Next year, when my wife goes back to work, we will be paying $7/day for daycare which from what I understand is really cheap. We also get a few tax breaks for having a child which is also nice.

From my perspective, it seems strange that there's so much opposition towards a socialist model of anything appearing in America.

So, thoughts? Reasons for/against?

 

[boulders and sticks]

Since I live in another country, I have no real stake in any health care reform that is going on in the US. However, I'm amazed by some of the insane opposition there is against it, with some people going as far as calling Obama a Nazi.
As someone that lives in a "socialist" province (Quebec), I can say first hand that my quality of life is not compromised by the many government programs that are available to me. Do I pay a lot in taxes? Fuck yeah, but in the end, I come out on top and my worries and stress are reduced so much that I think that's worth it.
Something that's made me realize this is having a child. Our hospital stay (3 days) cost us a total of $0. Later on when my wife came down with a nasty infection due to breast feeding, her five day hospital stay and IV antibiotics cost us a total of $0. The peace of mind I had during that experience of not having to worry about any medical bills was well worth any taxes I need to pay.
Also, my wife being able to stay at home for 1 year and still get a large percentage of her pay is amazing, and the 6 weeks of paternity leave I got where the government paid 70% of my salary was extremely helpful.
Next year, when my wife goes back to work, we will be paying $7/day for daycare which from what I understand is really cheap. We also get a few tax breaks for having a child which is also nice.

From my perspective, it seems strange that there's so much opposition towards a socialist model of anything appearing in America.

So, thoughts? Reasons for/against?

I could not agree more with what you are saying. I do live here in the States and i am amazed at the fear that has been generated on this subject.
In all the years i have lived here, i have never heard any real genuine complaint or objection to the billions and billions of dollars spent on weapons and the giant military this country has. But health care for all?
You must be a commie, or a Nazi, or a??????
Lets all be honest with ourselves, a goverment run health care for ALL the people, may not be perfect in all ways. But the system this country has right now is nuts! Great health care here if you can afford it, otherwise please get to the back of the line along with all the other cattle.
Take it from me, if this country has a new health care system in the next few years, the sun will still shine in the morning, we can all let fireworks off on the 4th of JUly, we can still eat pecan pie, hell, we can still invade other countrys.
John.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

And Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity will probably go nuts. Wait a minute -- they are nuts! Oh well.

 

[Angel of Ioren]

And Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity will probably go nuts. Wait a minute -- they are nuts! Oh well.

Those guys are serious when they talk, aren't they? That boggles the mind.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Those guys are serious when they talk, aren't they? That boggles the mind.

I can't help but feel that Limbaugh is goofing on everyone with his BS. Beck is a sicko. Hannity is dangerous.

 

[TClaeys]

Yeah and I bet they have healthcare they can afford. Six or seven hundred or even one thousand dollars a month?? I'm supposed to be able to afford this?? I don't know what the best "reform" is, but what we have now isn't feasible or even close to affordable. It's better to just risk it sometimes. Knocking on wood.

 

[Angel of Ioren]

Yeah and I bet they have healthcare they can afford. Six or seven hundred or even one thousand dollars a month?? I'm supposed to be able to afford this?? I don't know what the best "reform" is, but what we have now isn't feasible or even close to affordable. It's better to just risk it sometimes. Knocking on wood.

I didn't realize that Americans had to pay that much for insurance. Like I said, my taxes are high, but nowhere near that bad considering what I have access to. Although the government here does spend some of my tax money on stuff I don't care for, like our wonderful language police.

 

[TClaeys]

Don't get me started on child care. If you pay $7/day, that is simply mind boggling. Right now I work a shitty job so I can get home in time for my wife to go to work. Otherwise it is basically another mortgage payment just to go to work. And all the money you make, you just hand over for childcare. So you had better make a lot of money to cover childcare AND whatever expenses you think you'll need to cover. Or essentially what is happening is you go to work to pay someone else to raise your child. I know, I know, it was my choice to have kids, but sheeesh.

See, I got myself started. And I've used my daily quota of bitching already. Damn.

 

[boulders and sticks]

I didn't realize that Americans had to pay that much for insurance. Like I said, my taxes are high, but nowhere near that bad considering what I have access to. Although the government here does spend some of my tax money on stuff I don't care for, like our wonderful language police.

My Gilrfriends parents, up till last year, paid $1600 a month for health care. They have to travel 1 hour to the nearest keiser hospital. WHAT A DEAL! The nearest hospital is only 10 minutes away. But damn it's not Keiser. Now only one pays $800, the other gets medical.
John.

 

[Gojira2006]

I can't help but feel that Limbaugh is goofing on everyone with his BS. Beck is a sicko. Hannity is dangerous.

They, like Bill O'Reilly, are entertainers, & are not adding anything intellectually serious to the health-care debate, other than serious hysteria . . . What worries me more is when moderates like Olympia Snowe & Susan Collins, the two Republican Senators from my state, & fiscal conservative Second District Democrat Congressman Mike Michaud, are getting cold feet about reform . . . :frown:

 

[Angel of Ioren]

Don't get me started on child care. If you pay $7/day, that is simply mind boggling. Right now I work a shitty job so I can get home in time for my wife to go to work. Otherwise it is basically another mortgage payment just to go to work. And all the money you make, you just hand over for childcare. So you had better make a lot of money to cover childcare AND whatever expenses you think you'll need to cover. Or essentially what is happening is you go to work to pay someone else to raise your child. I know, I know, it was my choice to have kids, but sheeesh.

See, I got myself started. And I've used my daily quota of bitching already. Damn.

I sincerely believe that we are really lucky here in Quebec, despite all the separation garbage we put up with.
Montreal is a strange place. I speak three languages fluently, but that really amounts to nothing since everyone here for the most part speaks at least two. I'm pretty sure that it would be a huge asset if I were to go work anywhere else in North America. I'm not moving though, when one is lucky enough to have cheap child care and cheap education, it's worth living here.

 

[truthseeker]

I think that the real issue here is that the people just don't trust the government to run anything. Let's face it - the government is just a bunch of incompetent, corrupt, inefficient fucks who will overextend their power and tax you to death the first chance they get. And when you can't take it anymore they'll create some other reasons to tax you even more. Forget about democrats vs republicans, it's all bullshit and people know it. Rush, Hannity and other jokers - it's all entertainment and people are beginning to realize that.

There definately needs to be a health care reform. But what kind of reform is going to take place? I think that the first place where they should start is putting caps on malpractice lawsuits. It's one of the main reasons why the health care insurance is sky-rocketing in US. Is Obama going to do anything about it? I think not. He said so himself and he is greatly supported by the lawyers guild. All those fucks should be shot for what they're doing to this country.

I completely agree with people who said that the child-care services are outrageously expensive and I do think that we need some form of government assistance, even in terms of tax credits or vouchers. I know that some companies allow you to put pre-tax money away for child-care services, but a lot of them don't. So it would be great if the governemt could pick up the tab, even for just a portion. That would be a good start.

I also think that there should be laws where if a family has a baby, the mother stays home for up to a year. The employer should pay a portion of her salary and the government the rest. The employer should also get a tax break for this. I think that this would be an incredible help to many families.

I also want to stress that all these services should be provided for people who are here legally. I'm sorry, but if you're in this country illegaly, the federal govenment should not be obligated to pay for anything. If the states or private organizations decide to pick up the bill, let it be so. This country cannot afford to support people who are here illegally. If you don't think there is an abuse of the system going on, you should talk to some ER doctors I know. They'll tell you that these people know the system and they play the system and guess who pays the bill?

Ultimately it's not about socialism vs. capitalism. It's about what works and what doesn't work and how to make things more efficient and accessible so that the people in the middle don't get screwed.

 

[Gojira2006]

Ultimately it's not about socialism vs. capitalism. It's about what works and what doesn't work and how to make things more efficient and accessible so that the people in the middle don't get screwed.

Well, if we're to believe the polls, a majority of people want(ed) healthcare reform, but when the particulars started to be discussed, a lot of support pealed off, & many of the issues that you raised became reasons for some (rightly or wrongly) for doing nothing this year . . . I think Obama wants to be the next Roosevelt or Johnson, with a 21st Century version of the New Deal or the Great Society, but this time for universal healthcare . . . I don't think that's going to happen . . . I do think that if anything is going to happen, it needs to be incremental, & probably the first thing should be is tackling costs, or at least "immunizing" folks against losing their coverage at the whim of the insurance companies . . .

 

[Angel of Ioren]

I completely agree with people who said that the child-care services are outrageously expensive and I do think that we need some form of government assistance, even in terms of tax credits or vouchers. I know that some companies allow you to put pre-tax money away for child-care services, but a lot of them don't. So it would be great if the governemt could pick up the tab, even for just a portion. That would be a good start.

I also think that there should be laws where if a family has a baby, the mother stays home for up to a year. The employer should pay a portion of her salary and the government the rest. The employer should also get a tax break for this. I think that this would be an incredible help to many families.

This is pretty much how it works here. We have parental leave, so I or my wife can share up to one year where the government pays 55% of the parent's salary. In my case I would get 93% because my employer would top it up to that. As a father I also get 5 weeks at 70% or 3 weeks at 75% - I chose the 5 weeks and I actually made more money because I was taxed less. My employer also gave me 5 working days as added vacation to the 20 I get for the year, so that was great too.
Isn't there state run maternity and paternity leave in the US? Here, each province is different, and from what I can tell, Quebec has one of the best programs.
I find it hard to believe that a country that is so far ahead in some ways is so far behind in others. It's too bad.

 

[boulders and sticks]

I was thinking how iroinic it is that the people who complain and bitch about goverment being in charge of health care. Have nothing to say about the goverments ability to kill other people in far off lands very, very, effeciantly.
When it comes to us all putting money into that little programme, dead silence.....
We all have to contribute to the society in our own ways for the common good. Be it the schools,police,firemen, roads, public transport, military, the list goes on. Why not health care?
My arguement would be, this goverment and previous administrations seem to be able to find the time and money to fight wars all over this planet for many reasons and for many years.
I bet if they really had too, they could do a good job of reforming health care.
But then again, when those soldiers come back from those vital battles around the globe, they get shit health care and treated like lepers.
If they lose that is...
John.

 

[truthseeker]

Nope, as far as I'm aware. There might be states that have implemented some kind of a maternity/paternity leave of absence, I don't know. But as far as I know, a lot of employers usually give mothers 2-3 months of maternity leave. If you want to take more you're pretty much on your own. It's all pretty much employer-based. I'm not sure what the case is if the employer is the US government. Those folks usually get better benefits/longer vacations. But it could be not the case any more.

This is pretty much how it works here. We have parental leave, so I or my wife can share up to one year where the government pays 55% of the parent's salary. In my case I would get 93% because my employer would top it up to that. As a father I also get 5 weeks at 70% or 3 weeks at 75% - I chose the 5 weeks and I actually made more money because I was taxed less. My employer also gave me 5 working days as added vacation to the 20 I get for the year, so that was great too.
Isn't there state run maternity and paternity leave in the US? Here, each province is different, and from what I can tell, Quebec has one of the best programs.
I find it hard to believe that a country that is so far ahead in some ways is so far behind in others. It's too bad.

 

[Gojira2006]

My arguement would be, this goverment and previous administrations seem to be able to find the time and money to fight wars all over this planet for many reasons and for many years.

John.

Well, whatever one thinks of the wars in Iraq & Afghanistan, it should be noted that so much of the true cost associated with those wars was "kept off the books," so to speak . . . In light of the argument on how much healthcare is going to cost, which is inarguably going to be really steep, this should give us all pause when considering the "general welfare" . . .

 

[Angel of Ioren]

Nope, as far as I'm aware. There might be states that have implemented some kind of a maternity/paternity leave of absence, I don't know. But as far as I know, a lot of employers usually give mothers 2-3 months of maternity leave. If you want to take more you're pretty much on your own. It's all pretty much employer-based. I'm not sure what the case is if the employer is the US government. Those folks usually get better benefits/longer vacations. But it could be not the case any more.

Wow, that must make things hard on middle class people such as myself. It makes me happy to live where I live - if only the winter didn't seem to last 8 months.....

 

[Gojira2006]

Wow, that must make things hard on middle class people such as myself. It makes me happy to live where I live - if only the winter didn't seem to last 8 months.....

Just like Maine - 9 months of winter & 3 months of darned hard sledding . . . !

 

[Angel of Ioren]

Just like Maine - 9 months of winter & 3 months of darned hard sledding . . . !

Yeah, you guys aren't too far away.