The Science and Politics of Global Warming

[Angel of Ioren]

Who makes all the intrest on the carbon credits ?
Who thought up the theory of Global Warming?
Who gains from all the products surrounding Global Warming Religion?

Look at it from the other side though. Who stands to lose? The oil companies. It's in their best interest to discredit any science that does point to human caused global warming. This is why I an weary of both extreme sides of this issue.

 

[mike]

While i dont doubt that could be the motivation and mechanism at play behind attempts to discredit it.
I'm not so sure they lose anything.

Case in point with the australian carbon tax, the govt hits the polluters with a 26 dollar a ton tax, the industrys in question simply pass that on to the consumer.

Classic example the govt sent out consultants to eligable homes, they replaced free of charge old lightbulbs with new compact fluro bulbs, and other power saving stuff.
Household power usage dropped, so the power companys increased the price.
Now people pay more to use less.........
Same with solar panels, Govt gave massive rebates every second house on my street has solar roof panels a dynamic thats country wide.
The utility companys are forced to buy the excess generated power, they dont like this one bit, so to offset this..... they increased usage tarrifs to cover their costs yet again.

Any carbon tax on big oil will simply be treated as aproduction cost and passed on at the pump.

And coupled with population growth, there is no net reduction in carbon emmissions......

Thats the thing people need to look at,

He says recent efforts globally to reduce emissions have had little impact on emissions growth. “Recent emissions seem to be near the high end of the fossil fuel use scenarios used by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC).

The National Greenhouse Gas Inventory data released yesterday for the December 2010 quarter showed that emissions increased last year by 0.5% to 543 million tonnes, still below pre-GFC levels. The emissions produced by the significant pick-up in economic activity from the GFC-induced fall in 2009 was partly offset by a drop in electricity demand due to lower temperatures, the flooding of Queensland coal mines that reduced fugitive emissions and greater use of hydro-electric power due to greater rainfall.
Those factors are temporary, meaning emissions are set to increase significantly more this year.
But even in the unlikely event that emissions growth is constrained to the muted 2010 level, it would still mean national emissions of over 570 million tonnes per annum in 2020, well above the target of about 530 million tonnes.

Despite the world's focus on China's coal-fired power plants, a bigger threat may be the construction industry, warn the authors of Carbonising the Dragon, which was published on Wednesday in the journal Environmental Science and Technology.
The paper notes that China has been building the equivalent of 2bn square metres of floor space every year, which increases the country's carbon footprint enormously. Calculated at the point of consumption, cement is said to account for 46% of China emissions, and iron and steel 20% in total.
In contrast, it says electricity generation – which is usually cited as the primary problem – is about 30%. Despite the surge in demand for extra power, the authors say the Chinese government's investments in renewables and nuclear power have not greatly changed the energy mix.

2bn square metres of floor space every year, which increases the country's carbon footprint enormously

As the adage goes the road to hell is paved with good intentions, but global population growth coupled with demand for better lifestyles for all those people mean there can be no reductions in emissions.

Anyone taking your cash and telling you its helping, is pissing on your leg and insisting its just raining.

If we want to reduce emissions, we have to reduce population, any thing else is a blatant con job.

 

[mike]

The study says that if the world's population grows from 6.8 billion to 9 billion people by 2050 — the UN's "medium-growth" scenario — an extra 1-2 billion tonnes of carbon dioxide is likely to be emitted each year, compared with a "low-growth" scenario that leads to 8 billion people by 2050. In comparison, the burning of fossil fuels produced about 8.7 billion tonnes of carbon dioxide globally last year2.
But despite the influence of population on climate, the link has barely featured in scientific and diplomatic discussions, the report says.

Curbing population growth crucial to reducing carbon emissions : Nature News

"Until we get population dynamics integrated into our understanding of climate change and our responses to it, both will be ineffective

 

[Randall]

Global Warming ?

 

[pixelsmith]

 

[Burnt State]

I'm sorry you feel that way - I think it's a fair article.

I thought it was a fair article too. I wonder where you've been as you were once a stalwart of this place along with @pixelsmith. I'm attempting a resuscitation of the forum. Where's @Goggs Mackay when you need him? Or how about @marduk?

 

[Tyger]

I thought it was a fair article too. I wonder where you've been as you were once a stalwart of this place along with @pixelsmith. I'm attempting a resuscitation of the forum. Where's @Goggs Mackay when you need him? Or how about @marduk?

Back when I was active here Angel of Loren was already a very rare presence, if at all. That was 10+ years ago.

Goggs Mackay was an active and very fair moderator. Those were strange tumultuous times.

Just wondering - why do you want to resuscitate the boards? It could be a wonderful place to chat, but could also be unhealthy, as most chat boards were back then anyway. Not as bad as the 'flame wars' of the 90s, but still, 'bracing'.

 

[Randall]

Just wondering - why do you want to resuscitate the boards? It could be a wonderful place to chat, but could also be unhealthy, as most chat boards were back then anyway. Not as bad as the 'flame wars' of the 90s, but still, 'bracing'.

An interesting usage of the word "bracing" — the act of preparing oneself, often unconsciously, for an anticipated negative experience, such as disappointment, criticism, rejection, or emotional pain. It is a psychological self-protective stance adopted to soften the potential "impact" of a feared future event.

I've certainly experienced my fair share of that — and been unfairly accused ( IMO ) of contributing to it as well. That's just the nature of contentious issues, and the price we pay for the process of standing-up for what we believe. Whatever the case; in my experience, this is the forum that best facilitated getting through the rough patches — until the biggest rogue wave in the last century ( COVID ) hit, and it all went to Hell.

 

[Richard Hawkins]

An interesting usage of the word "bracing" — the act of preparing oneself, often unconsciously, for an anticipated negative experience, such as disappointment, criticism, rejection, or emotional pain. It is a psychological self-protective stance adopted to soften the potential "impact" of a feared future event.

I've certainly experienced my fair share of that — and been unfairly accused ( IMO ) of contributing to it as well. That's just the nature of contentious issues, and the price we pay for the process of standing-up for what we believe. Whatever the case; in my experience, this is the forum that best facilitated getting through the rough patches. until the biggest rogue wave in the last century ( COVID ) hit, it all went to Hell.

The planet has always heated up and cooled down as it will after we are all gone. America and the UK contribution to Global emissions is less than four per cent. Give me a shout everyone when we've convinced India and China to stop industrialization.

 

[Randall]

The planet has always heated up and cooled down as it will after we are all gone. America and the UK contribution to Global emissions is less than four per cent. Give me a shout everyone when we've convinced India and China to stop industrialization.

True as that is — humans are still a contributory factor. The things is that we're not as big a contributory factor as climate politics would have us believe. Just like with COVID, they claim there's a scientific consensus — when there's not, and the real driver is the political power and money transfer schemes associated with it. The woke Mayor here ( Gondek ) even tried declaring a "Climate Emergency" in order to put in bylaws and funnel money into various Climategate type initiatives — all while jets crisscross the sky with trails of CO2 and water vapor that are both far larger drivers of the greenhouse effect than whatever kind of automobiles people drive down on the ground.

 

[Richard Hawkins]

True as that is — humans are still a contributory factor. The things is that we're not as big a contributory factor as climate politics would have us believe. Just like with COVID, they claim there's a scientific consensus — when there's not, and the real driver is the political power and money transfer schemes associated with it. The woke Mayor here ( Gondek ) even tried declaring a "Climate Emergency" in order to put in bylaws and funnel money into various Climategate type initiatives — all while jets crisscross the sky with trails of CO2 and water vapor that are both far larger drivers of the greenhouse effect than whatever kind of automobiles people drive down on the ground.

I agree but I still believe that all of North America (including Canada) and the UK and Ireland contribute less than 4 per cent of what India or China contribute to global warming. Until that changes I don't give a shit.

 

[Burnt State]

Just wondering - why do you want to resuscitate the boards? It could be a wonderful place to chat, but could also be unhealthy, as most chat boards were back then anyway. Not as bad as the 'flame wars' of the 90s, but still, 'bracing'.

I miss the many strange personalities from back in the day. I learned so much from @trainedobserver about UFO's and enjoyed some of the exceptional insights some of the posters had.

And now this forum is ridiculously inactive compared to where it used to be. In collectivity there is better discussion and more learning opportunities. And I'm slowly wading back into the UFO world just to see if there's anything new to gain.

As for 'bracing".....I can remember once Gene inviting me to a live phone call to help moderate a conflict between two infamous posters and my goodness...the torrent of vile filth and evil that spewed out from that space was really unprecedented. So yes, once upon a time there a lot of personality here.

 

[Richard Hawkins]

I miss the many strange personalities from back in the day. I learned so much from @trainedobserver about UFO's and enjoyed some of the exceptional insights some of the posters had.

And now this forum is ridiculously inactive compared to where it used to be. In collectivity there is better discussion and more learning opportunities. And I'm slowly wading back into the UFO world just to see if there's anything new to gain.

As for 'bracing".....I can remember once Gene inviting me to a live phone call to help moderate a conflict between two infamous posters and my goodness...the torrent of vile filth and evil that spewed out from that space was really unprecedented. So yes, once upon a time there a lot of personality here.

Great story

 

[Tyger]

An interesting usage of the word "bracing" — the act of preparing oneself, often unconsciously, for an anticipated negative experience, such as disappointment, criticism, rejection, or emotional pain. It is a psychological self-protective stance adopted to soften the potential "impact" of a feared future event.

That's a unique meaning of the word. Context is all. Bracing means invigorating or refreshing, often used to describe cold weather that energizes you. It can also refer to something that strengthens or supports. So bracing in the context I used the word was meant to be ironic - confronting unpleasant adversarial dialog can be 'bracing' - invigorating or refreshing. Ha! More apt - energizing.

 

[Tyger]

The planet has always heated up and cooled down as it will after we are all gone. America and the UK contribution to Global emissions is less than four per cent. Give me a shout everyone when we've convinced India and China to stop industrialization.

Trying to get us back on-topic?

 

[Randall]

That's a unique meaning of the word. Context is all. Bracing means invigorating or refreshing, often used to describe cold weather that energizes you. It can also refer to something that strengthens or supports. So bracing in the context I used the word was meant to be ironic - confronting unpleasant adversarial dialog can be 'bracing' - invigorating or refreshing. Ha! More apt - energizing.

I just did a Google AI search for the emotional context of the word "bracing", and that's what it said — but now I see that it mentions your intended context as well. Thanks for clarifying !