S
smcder
Guest
I've got a retired LEO friend who is near to and familiar with avid fair minded about these events ... I'll ask but I'm pretty sure the answer is yes, in an ideal world.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
NEW! LOWEST RATES EVER -- SUPPORT THE SHOW AND ENJOY THE VERY BEST PREMIUM PARACAST EXPERIENCE! Welcome to The Paracast+, eight years young! For a low subscription fee, you can download the ad-free version of The Paracast and the exclusive, member-only, After The Paracast bonus podcast, featuring color commentary, exclusive interviews, the continuation of interviews that began on the main episode of The Paracast. We also offer lifetime memberships! Flash! Take advantage of our lowest rates ever! Act now! It's easier than ever to susbcribe! You can sign up right here!
Riot Day in Ferguson, Missouri
- Thread starter Charlie Prime
- Start date
I've got a retired LEO friend who is near to and familiar with avid fair minded about these events ... I'll ask but I'm pretty sure the answer is yes, in an ideal world.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
S
smcder
Guest
@burntstate
"Little has changed regarding how black people are portrayed in North American popular culture. What must it be like to grow up from a very early age believing your self-worth is defined by the colour of your skin? That needs a major alteration in how race relations work in America."
Can you expand on this a little?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
"Little has changed regarding how black people are portrayed in North American popular culture. What must it be like to grow up from a very early age believing your self-worth is defined by the colour of your skin? That needs a major alteration in how race relations work in America."
Can you expand on this a little?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
In Milwaukee, where I grew up and where my sister still lives, a mentally impaired and unarmed black man was shot to death in the streets about a half a year ago. The policeman who killed him did not know how to interpret some behavior or other on the part of this man. The Milwaukee police chief is now obtaining instruction for all members of the police force on how to recognize signs of mental impairment in people on the streets to avoid such a thing happening there again.
I suppose we'll eventually find out more about what happened in the killing of the teenager in Ferguson. It seems to have been part of an extended interaction. I don't know why Wilson didn't either leave the scene or call for back-up. I don't believe this tragedy was unavoidable and therefore I find it inexcusable..
I suppose we'll eventually find out more about what happened in the killing of the teenager in Ferguson. It seems to have been part of an extended interaction. I don't know why Wilson didn't either leave the scene or call for back-up. I don't believe this tragedy was unavoidable and therefore I find it inexcusable..
S
smcder
Guest
CIT Center Home
Memphis runs a paradigm program free for LEOs. I attended their annual conference with LEOs, persons living with mental illness and their families.
When I worked in mental health we frequently dealt with police issues. Most ended without violence or with a police officer ( or EMT we forget about EMTs) taking the brunt of the violence when he or she was justified in using deadly force, including being stabbed (vests, when a dept can afford then are often not knife proof) or beaten by a much larger person.
Persons with mental illness were injured and in one case killed. In that case the person had a knife in hand. This is what I know about a knife: if a person has a knife and intent to harm you, you will be cut. A knife can kill as efficiently as a hand gun and at the same range. An inexpensive eight inch kitchen knife can disembowel or plunge through chest bones (and many bullet proof vests) and can be found in most kitchens.
A young male can close a 21 foot radius before an officer can un holster and bring their weapon to bear. The average distance a person can shoot and hit a ( most likely moving target) in actual combat conditions is 7 feet. Forget what you see on TV. There's no shooting to wound. Combat is fast and terrifying and it stinks - literally.
Family members were injured or killed or lived in constant terror of a family member living with mental illness.
(Most persons living with mental illness are not violent and are far more likely to be the victims of violence than persons who are not diagnosed with mental illness. But some are extremely violent and extremely unpredictable. Most often there is a history of violence and drug use just as there is with most persons who are not mentally ill who commit acts of violence.)
Not every contingency can be allowed for.
One of the most moving accounts I heard was given by a LEO who had a woman pull a gun on him in a public space. He drew his weapon and ordered the woman to put her weapon down. She refused and in the end he shot her. In her purse was a note of apology for committing suicide by cop.
The officer became depressed and suicidal. He lost his job and law enforcement family because they were unable and unwilling to understand. After years he came to fight his way back and to present his story to the law enforcement and mental health community.
That said - Each case has to be dealt with individually and improvement should be constantly sought. But given the nature and complexity of human violence - I don't think we will ever be able to prevent all tragedies. And we have to allow law enforcement to be human or they will eventually cease to be able to be human. I've met a lot of police officers and I like most of them - especially patrol officers. In my state they are poorly paid, receive little training because of the costs, have a low social status and deal on a daily basis with the worst 1% of humanity the rest of us mostly manage to avoid (and they get a lot of sass from just about everyone else) and yet very few I know wouldn't feel great remorse at the use of lethal force no matter what the conditions.
There are differences in the Missouri system for Grand Juries and under Missouri law LEOs can fire on a fleeing suspect.
My understanding is that the prosecutor took the unusual step of releasing all the testimony in this case ... so we should learn more soon.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Memphis runs a paradigm program free for LEOs. I attended their annual conference with LEOs, persons living with mental illness and their families.
When I worked in mental health we frequently dealt with police issues. Most ended without violence or with a police officer ( or EMT we forget about EMTs) taking the brunt of the violence when he or she was justified in using deadly force, including being stabbed (vests, when a dept can afford then are often not knife proof) or beaten by a much larger person.
Persons with mental illness were injured and in one case killed. In that case the person had a knife in hand. This is what I know about a knife: if a person has a knife and intent to harm you, you will be cut. A knife can kill as efficiently as a hand gun and at the same range. An inexpensive eight inch kitchen knife can disembowel or plunge through chest bones (and many bullet proof vests) and can be found in most kitchens.
A young male can close a 21 foot radius before an officer can un holster and bring their weapon to bear. The average distance a person can shoot and hit a ( most likely moving target) in actual combat conditions is 7 feet. Forget what you see on TV. There's no shooting to wound. Combat is fast and terrifying and it stinks - literally.
Family members were injured or killed or lived in constant terror of a family member living with mental illness.
(Most persons living with mental illness are not violent and are far more likely to be the victims of violence than persons who are not diagnosed with mental illness. But some are extremely violent and extremely unpredictable. Most often there is a history of violence and drug use just as there is with most persons who are not mentally ill who commit acts of violence.)
Not every contingency can be allowed for.
One of the most moving accounts I heard was given by a LEO who had a woman pull a gun on him in a public space. He drew his weapon and ordered the woman to put her weapon down. She refused and in the end he shot her. In her purse was a note of apology for committing suicide by cop.
The officer became depressed and suicidal. He lost his job and law enforcement family because they were unable and unwilling to understand. After years he came to fight his way back and to present his story to the law enforcement and mental health community.
That said - Each case has to be dealt with individually and improvement should be constantly sought. But given the nature and complexity of human violence - I don't think we will ever be able to prevent all tragedies. And we have to allow law enforcement to be human or they will eventually cease to be able to be human. I've met a lot of police officers and I like most of them - especially patrol officers. In my state they are poorly paid, receive little training because of the costs, have a low social status and deal on a daily basis with the worst 1% of humanity the rest of us mostly manage to avoid (and they get a lot of sass from just about everyone else) and yet very few I know wouldn't feel great remorse at the use of lethal force no matter what the conditions.
There are differences in the Missouri system for Grand Juries and under Missouri law LEOs can fire on a fleeing suspect.
My understanding is that the prosecutor took the unusual step of releasing all the testimony in this case ... so we should learn more soon.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Last edited by a moderator:
Charlie Prime
Paranormal Adept
What kind of Major Alteration in how race relations work in America needs to be made?
Burnt State
Paranormal Adept
1. Increased knowledge and awareness around how racism works and what are its daily effects: so anti-racism and anti-oppression cultures must be cultivated at all levels of communities, social structures and social services (education, health, law etc.).
2. Compassion and recognition of what internalized racism and intergenerational trauma is and how this has created cycles of imbalance: mental health concerns, depression, self-esteem issues, poor physical health, addictions, disruption of family structures. We need compassion in these areas to better understand why paradigms concerning media constructions of identity and how these play out in the privileged areas of society to stop the mocking, alienation, fear and daily aggresions perpetuated by the privileged sectors of society.
3. A reallocation of resources to go to where there is the most need in society to create equity and equal opportunity for all people. If the cycles of poverty, mental health and violence are not addressed directly in under-served communities then the society as a whole is not well and suffers from scenes like we are witnessing in Ferguson. This perpetuate "us & them" paradigms that continue to divide communities, perpetuate racism and create radical divisions across social lines and cultures. When people don't mix there is no understanding, without understanding there is fear, fear leads to violence.
There are other steps to work towards undoing history like truth and reconciliation commissions, recognition of what it is to be an oppressor, changes to housing opportunities etc. but as presented in smcder's post above the intricacies of creating equity, for example in how the police and other front line workers intersect with mental health issues, is a long, complex and committed process. But ultimately society can be retrained to use words and non-lethal options instead of lethal force to create better outcomes. I acknowledge that most frontline workers do the best they can with the tools, training and attitudes they were raised in - and they all need to change according to the precepts outlined above.
Charlie Prime
Paranormal Adept
All the things you listed have already been done in America, and they failed.
Do you recommend we do these failed things more, and do these failed things more intensely?
Charlie Prime
Paranormal Adept
Racist white drives car into protesters at a Ferguson protest in Minneapolis yesterday.
I guess the driver realized the error of his ways and stopped the car to exchange insurance information, then decided upon a more prudent course of action.
I guess the driver realized the error of his ways and stopped the car to exchange insurance information, then decided upon a more prudent course of action.
Stagger Lee
Paranormal Adept
Well, I think it's clear this guy believed he could bully that cop beyond the law mentality. Perhaps it's not the first time he "put a young cop in his place" using the same tactics?
S
smcder
Guest
"but as presented in smcder's post above the intricacies of creating equity, for example in how the police and other front line workers intersect with mental health issues, is a long, complex and committed process. But ultimately society can be retrained to use words and non-lethal options instead of lethal force to create better outcomes. I acknowledge that most frontline workers do the best they can with the tools, training and attitudes they were raised in - and they all need to change according to the precepts outlined above."
I agree the change has to happen upstream of where a final potentially violent encounter could occur. In terms of LE dealing with persons living with mental illness, the concern is that adequate resources will be allocated and that those making policy changes need to be well informed as to the realities of inter personal violence.
Police ride alongs and time spent in shelters, on the streets and in hospitals is a pre requisite for policy makers. Otherwise we put unrealistic expectations on those whose lives and livelihoods will be at risk carrying out these policies.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I agree the change has to happen upstream of where a final potentially violent encounter could occur. In terms of LE dealing with persons living with mental illness, the concern is that adequate resources will be allocated and that those making policy changes need to be well informed as to the realities of inter personal violence.
Police ride alongs and time spent in shelters, on the streets and in hospitals is a pre requisite for policy makers. Otherwise we put unrealistic expectations on those whose lives and livelihoods will be at risk carrying out these policies.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Stagger Lee
Paranormal Adept
Yikes. Looked like all white folk under the tires and smashing the windshield. I thought the driver handled it well.
Charlie Prime
Paranormal Adept
Racist white restaurant manager (aka an Elite Slave Master) tries to prevent Ferguson activists from implementing Social Justice...
TrivialSublime
Skilled Investigator
Events like this are good in that they bring out the closeted racists that lurk, even on a forum dedicated to the paranormal, nice to see those of you( you know who you are) climb out from under the rocks you live under.
Unfortunately the Sun won't dry you up fast enough to blow away with the winds of change.
Unfortunately the Sun won't dry you up fast enough to blow away with the winds of change.
Charlie Prime
Paranormal Adept
Preach it brother!
The racists can't hide when events like Ferguson happen. Their hatred becomes evident. They can't resist throwing individuals into skin color groups, and demanding action against people based on skin color.
TrivialSublime
Skilled Investigator
Good to see you Ted Nugent, I didn't know you were a Paracaster.
Burnt State
Paranormal Adept
Well I can't say that historically that very many of those things in fact have been done. The discussion on equity reculturation has only just ramped up in the last 15 years and practical application and action on these also are really just beginning. Reculturation of social systems is a 30-50 year process so equity values getting engrained in institutions is still something to be realized well into the future, just like teaching men how not to rape women will also one day take place as a practical approach to minimizing social chaos. So from my perspective few are trying hard enough and too many are worried about making money instead of how representation works to defeat human dignity.
Charlie Prime
Paranormal Adept
What is "equity reculturation"?
Enculturation is the process by which people learn the requirements of their surrounding culture and acquire values and behaviours appropriate or necessary in that culture.[1]
Enculturation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Thus i surmise reculturation refers to changing the process of Enculturation in this context to reflect values relating to equity
Charlie Prime
Paranormal Adept
I know what Enculturation is, and I know from five miserable semesters studying to be a CPA what Equity is.
I don't understand what Equity you are talking about Enculturating.
What Equity are you talking about?
I don't understand what Equity you are talking about Enculturating.
What Equity are you talking about?
P