January 11, 2015 — David Stinnett

[Soupie]

The idea that the phenomena our culture currently refers to as aliens and UFOs may be the same phenomena referred to as angels, demons, and gods in Biblical times is one worth pursuing in my opinion.

Exploring this idea doesn't require that one adhere to the Judeo-Christian narrative.

I would love to hear more about ancient accounts of human interaction with demons, angels, etc. Were there elements of high strangeness? What did these entities communicate to the people they interacted with?

What information can be gleaned about these entities once the cultural/Biblical narrative is removed?

For instance, there is a reference in the NT to demons moving through "the dry places" when leaving an individual whom they had possessed. This is possibly a reference to the belief that demons infested the many deserts of the middle east. Also in the NT, satan is referred to as the "prince of the air," which may refer to the atmosphere.

For me, I'm not so much concerned about the truth of these statements, but about why the NT authors had these beliefs. What happened in the deserts that led to this belief that "there be demons." What was being seen in the atmosphere that led the writers to declare that there satan resided as prince?

I think we can assume that the people of 2-3,000 years ago were having the same experiences with the same phenomenon we are. They seem to have had a much "healthier" way of dealing with it than our current, scientific culture. That is, at least they recognized it as a real phenomena and not the Great Taboo that it is today.

I agree that guest did not have a good presentation. And while Gene and Chris did a great job overall, the topic unfortunately did shift away from the similarities between demons, aliens, and ufos to a discussion about whether the Judeo-Christian narrative was true.

 

[Burnt State]

This has always been a conscious memory. It was the middle of the night. I was awakened and taken outside. I was totally docile. The figure with me was very tall, skinny and white. The head was like an egg with the classic almond wrap around eyes. At the time there was vacant land behind our house. There was a large rock outcrop. The alien sat down on this rock and had me lay down in his lap. I was as limp as a rag doll. Then the creature put a long needle into my ear. I felt perfectly calm although a part of my mind thought that this was a very peculiar reaction on my part. Why was I so calm? I can still hear the twisting of the needle inside my ear and extreme pain. The creature kept going even after the pain started, going deeper and deeper. Then I was returned to my bed. Jump forward 20 years to when I had a professional eye exam (not the standard visit to check your eyesight). My regular ear doctor had found burns around my optic nerve in the left eye. He said that any closer and I would have been blind in that eye. He was so upset that he immediately contacted an eye specialist and had me go over there right away. The specialist had no explanation for what could have possibly caused the burn. He asked if I or a friend had been playing with a laser. Of course not. But most upsetting was that he took a picture of an object at the back of my left eyeball. It is a round pearl object. He had no explanation what it was or how it could have gotten there. He said there was no way our current medical science could remove it. I bring this up because I do wonder if I was given an implant as a child. Could it have actually been inserted via the ear to the back of the eye? I don't know.

Not sure why this doesn't have everyone's attention, but perhaps, like me, there's a highly skeptical sensation that is the first response to anyone's identification as being the subject of alien abduction. Contact is what I'm most fascinated with, contact with anything that is beyond, but most contact, aside from Falcon Lake, is usually just a story. You, on the other hand are identifying no less than two specific medical procedures that appear of confirm some kind of medical procedure has taken place: the eardrum piercing that needed surgical repair and then the object by the optic nerve which was burned. That's pretty profound and already much more interesting as a narratve than anything Roger Leir has ever offered up such as his 'discovered' internal growths around bits of anomalous minerals in our bodies. Obviously I have questions, if you're open to public talk here they are but if not that's cool. Not everyone's abduction narratve has always been received kindly out here.

The description you give certainly has dreamlike qualities to it, especially in the whole lying in the alien's lap by the rock - almost a maternal image. It has such a young child's feeling about it. The docility and lack of emotion certainly are in keeping with abduction narratives, but the outdoor medical procedure is not. The odd combination of emotions and narrative elements makes your story very odd. Do you feel that it was all a dream? Were you having any other intense or unusual dreams, visual hallucinations etc. at this time? Any personal turmoil or family stress that was coinciding with these events?

You mentioned a fever as coinciding with the ear condition. Was there any infection or antibiotics prescribed? What kind of operation was undertaken to repair your ear?

The eye stuff is another issue altogether and also very perplexing...

 

[SheaOlmsford]

Not sure why this doesn't have everyone's attention, but perhaps, like me, there's a highly skeptical sensation that is the first response to anyone's identification as being the subject of alien abduction. Contact is what I'm most fascinated with, contact with anything that is beyond, but most contact, aside from Falcon Lake, is usually just a story. You, on the other hand are identifying no less than two specific medical procedures that appear of confirm some kind of medical procedure has taken place: the eardrum piercing that needed surgical repair and then the object by the optic nerve which was burned. That's pretty profound and already much more interesting as a narratve than anything Roger Leir has ever offered up such as his 'discovered' internal growths around bits of anomalous minerals in our bodies. Obviously I have questions, if you're open to public talk here they are but if not that's cool. Not everyone's abduction narratve has always been received kindly out here.

The description you give certainly has dreamlike qualities to it, especially in the whole lying in the alien's lap by the rock - almost a maternal image. It has such a young child's feeling about it. The docility and lack of emotion certainly are in keeping with abduction narratives, but the outdoor medical procedure is not. The odd combination of emotions and narrative elements makes your story very odd. Do you feel that it was all a dream? Were you having any other intense or unusual dreams, visual hallucinations etc. at this time? Any personal turmoil or family stress that was coinciding with these events?

You mentioned a fever as coinciding with the ear condition. Was there any infection or antibiotics prescribed? What kind of operation was undertaken to repair your ear?

The eye stuff is another issue altogether and also very perplexing...

Actually, I was going to delete the first post I made here about the dream-like "Jesus" situation. But it was too late (do posts time-out after a certain time and become permanent? Seems so). Then I was going to delete any other posts about my personal experiences because no one responded and no one else seemed to share such intimate details. But then someone responded to one of the posts and thought it would be polite to leave it. However, I do not want to become a local diva in this thread, sharing his wild eyed experiences. Nothing good of it can come out of doing so FOR ME, even if they serve as entertainment or whatever else for others.

Nonetheless, I will respond as best I can. Bear in mind, that I was a child at the time and do not know the name of the operation that was required on my ear. As an adult, I have seen an ear surgeon all my life to check on that ear, which is prone to infections and tinnitus now. But all such ear specialists have said what a professional job was done. It appears that not only was there a perforation in the ear drum, but 2 of the 3 bones that make up the inner-ear were severely damaged. The operation somehow fused these together with some artificial material and closed up the hole.

How could this possibly be a dream? The ear operation was performed within a week of the memory. I do recall being grilled by the ear specialist about who did this to me. The theory of the adults around me was that some other children had somehow gotten old of me and perhaps stabbed a pencil into my ear (I was bullied a lot in grade school because I was very poor in sports). But I knew even then that I could not tell them the truth. Even kids back then quickly picked up what is allowed and what must remain secret, i.e., what was real and what was considered delusional. So I just kept saying I did not know what happened. However, this was a real event, not a dream. Nonetheless, like a dream or a TV show, there was no linear sequence of events, i.e., I have no idea how I got from my bedroom to the field in back of the house. Like a TV show, I was just suddenly there. I also have no idea how I got back into the bedroom. I was just there.

As for the question about infection. Yes, there was a raging infection but I do not remember what medication I was given. When a local doctor looked at the ear and my physical condition, he had me admitted immediately to the hospital. I probably had some sort of drip then, since events moved quickly after this. A specialist was flown in to perform the surgery. He is long gone and I was never given his name as a child.

Trust me, there was no maternal instinct involved. I felt like a lamb and was worried I was going to be sacrificed. My parents were fundamentalist religious fanatics, so I was well versed in sin and blood atonement and all that drivel.

I had a hard childhood. I was seen as a sissy boy (turned out to be a gay adult man). My dad effectively ignored me most of the time because I was not a big athlete like my older brother. At other times my dad was quite verbally abusive towards me, and my mother also felt I was somehow tainted. I had a pet cat. My dad said it did not respect him enough. Therefore, in front of me, he smashed its head in with a shovel. I was traumatized and felt something close-down inside of me - I became pretty numb after that incident. Kids at school were also abusive and called me a "girl" (the worst thing in the world to be called back then). I had no friends until 7th grade when an obese boy joined the class. He was also an outcast so we became good friends. We both were actually way above average scholastically. So in summary, that was the milieu I lived within as a boy. This was nonstop every day. I found no relief until I went off to college.

I had a nervous breakdown in 2010 (depression and anxiety). Happily I saw one of the top 10 psychiatrists in the USA for several years. A ton of material came to the surface to be discharged, including abduction related stuff like this. NO HYPNOSIS WAS USED. This was a professional psychiatrist, not an artist or a history professor. He said hypnosis was invalid for retrieving such memories and just invites the patient to confabulate. But the bottomline is that I was able to process what he called my family created PTSD along with whatever PTSD I got from the so-called abductions. I want nothing to do with the paranormal on a personal basis, and hope that simply relating it here is not any sort of invitation, because I consider myself inside a firewall of protection against anything like this ever again.

THE END.

 

[SheaOlmsford]

An Addendum: I really need to STOP participating in the forum. To me, it has this elite small group of 3 or 4 who chatter with each other in the Consciousness Part 3 and a few other threads. I wonder how many potential forum contributers were scared away after reading their intellectual mutual-self-masturbatory posts. I think you need a PHD to understand. Then there are the other threads, which can at times have interesting discussions. But most people just post 1 liners, which I find rather boring. But I am not leaving because any one else is at fault. I did not mean to give that impression. I just thought that as a part of leaving, I would offer a quick critique on the forum. I remember it back in 2010 when this place really jumped with tremendous energy and thrilling topics. Now it seems like Rome after the Fall of the Roman Empire. From a population of 1.5 million inhabitants, it dropped down to 10,000 at one point. (I wonder if a similar fate could await the great cities of the USA some day, but I digress.....)

Thanks to all those who "liked" some of my posts. I have paid a year to be a subscriber, so I will be listening to every single broadcast. Best wishes to anyone who reads this. Buh Bye.

 

[Burnt State]

beyondthestargate, thanks so much for sharing your story. It takes a lot of courage to do that especially across so many paranormal and personal spaces. I appreciate all your answers given the sensitive nature of the discussion and so I'm not going to pry any further in this public space.

However as I read the goodbye just posted above I'd like to ask you to pause and take a step back. This forum has definitely travelled along a lot of different lines over the years and its activity levels and participants varies at different times of the year, as do threads have their own rhythms and patterns. People take time off. Dominating voices vs. investigative voices shift and change over time. Sure there are some threads that require some extra effort; yes having some "abilities" in different areas helps, but the forum as a whole is highly diverse.

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it as a whole, as there are some very creative thinkers, scientists, dreamers, believers, lurkers, cantankerous critics, artists, philosophers and feisty personalities that I think you would fit in well with actually. You seem to have an excellent grasp of the UFO material and some serious involvement in its history in a rather dyanmic manner which would be greatly appreciated.

More patience and investment of voice may bring its own rewards. It is what you bring to it.

 

[Wade]

Move over SAWS, the forum has a new acronym, IMSMP.

 

[Sand]

beyondthestargate, I would be sorry to see you leave. In the few weeks I have been following the Forum you have added a lot of interest and energy, not to mention some humor.

 

[SheaOlmsford]

OK, I am staying. Last night the shadows were deep and I felt really vulnerable, having talked about myself in a way that others here do not. I also was embarrassed, since it seemed I was being a forum diva. So, I will not tell my life story on the forum.

But I will comment on items that interest me.

BY the way, what is IMSMP? Do I want to know?

 

[Oakenwulf]

OK, I am staying. Last night the shadows were deep and I felt really vulnerable, having talked about myself in a way that others here do not. I also was embarrassed, since it seemed I was being a forum diva. So, I will not tell my life story on the forum.

But I will comment on items that interest me.

BY the way, what is IMSMP? Do I want to know?

I agree with you, I mostly stay in the shadows and comment as well, I really read and post interesting things and attempt to be funny at times, but I do see what you meant earlier and agree, but yea stay and watch for the good more deep posts, im not really looking to be the top poster or question giver, here to have fun and learn new things

 

[Wade]

OK, I am staying. Last night the shadows were deep and I felt really vulnerable, having talked about myself in a way that others here do not. I also was embarrassed, since it seemed I was being a forum diva. So, I will not tell my life story on the forum.

But I will comment on items that interest me.

By the way, what is IMSMP? Do I want to know?

"...I wonder how many potential forum contributers were scared away after reading their intellectual mutual-self-masturbator posts..."

It was in reference to your above post above the paranormal and consciousness "elite small group" and their postings. While i agree with burnt and sand about your prescence here you do have a lot of intetesting insight and humor. i thought it was pretty petty of you to smear a group of people about their posting style. It was beneath yours and their dignity. I am closer to being a one liner person than i am a deep meaningful poster so my post was done in that style but seeing how you asked i am calling you out on it. Cheers.

 

[Soupie]

@beyondthestargate

Thanks for sharing your experiences. This thread is kind of off the beaten path, which may be why your posts arent attracting more attention.

I'm not asking you to share more personal experiences, but I'm curious if you have ever been able to determine an agenda or motivation for why these entities may have interacted with you?

I've read/heard that many abductees unfortunately have no idea why/what the entities wanted with them.

I'm just curious what your thougts are. Thanks.

 

[Burnt State]

"...I wonder how many potential forum contributers were scared away after reading their intellectual mutual-self-masturbator posts..."

It was in reference to your above post above the paranormal and consciousness "elite small group" and their postings. While i agree with burnt and sand about your prescence here you do have a lot of intetesting insight and humor. i thought it was pretty petty of you to smear a group of people about their posting style. It was beneath yours and their dignity. I am closer to being a one liner person than i am a deep meaningful poster so my post was done in that style but seeing how you asked i am calling you out on it. Cheers.

Wade, our local soothsayer and diplomat, don't underestimate your ability to pierce to the heart of the matter with pretty creative and direct statements. Honesty and humourous invention are your strengths.

I can understand how emotion can get in the way of what you want to say sometimes, @beyondthestargate - but this can be a pretty forgiving audience once, or twice.

 

[SheaOlmsford]

@beyondthestargate

Thanks for sharing your experiences. This thread is kind of off the beaten path, which may be why your posts arent attracting more attention.

I'm not asking you to share more personal experiences, but I'm curious if you have ever been able to determine an agenda or motivation for why these entities may have interacted with you?

I've read/heard that many abductees unfortunately have no idea why/what the entities wanted with them.

I'm just curious what your thougts are. Thanks.

No idea.

 

[boomerang]

OK, I am staying. Last night the shadows were deep and I felt really vulnerable, having talked about myself in a way that others here do not. I also was embarrassed, since it seemed I was being a forum diva. So, I will not tell my life story on the forum.

But I will comment on items that interest me.

BY the way, what is IMSMP? Do I want to know?

Glad to hear you are sticking around !

Yes--Threads here can become incredibly and densely academic. I suspect most of us, assuming we started these particular marathons, now drop by only occasionally to "cherry pick" an idea or two and marvel at the intellectual effort apparently involved. I do, however, think the prime participants are sincerely doing their best to chip away at certain core mysteries of the human condition. It is on that basis I think almost any sincere debate can be justified.

The dark nights of the soul--We all have them. Hopefully you will stay with the forum, as the great majority of folks here are mutually supportive of the ongoing battles each of us has with whatever may lurk within the human mind to ambush us when we least expect it.

Did I mention the ubiquitous nature of the human condition?

 

[SillyRaabit]

The question remains: what motivates people to post such long-winded posts? Is it aliens?

I'm not saying it was aliens.

But it was aliens.

 

[ChrisJohnsen]

Wow, I step away from this forum thread for a few days and miss a bunch of interesting posts. I'm listening to the Greg Bishop episode and heard Gene say he banned UFOAngel from the forum for trolling. I initially thought it was rather thin-skinned of him just because she disagreed with his tone in the latter part of the Stinnett interview and referred to him as resembling male genitalia. However, now that I'm caught up on the posts, I get the ban and appreciate it.

Regarding the posts by BeyondTheStargate, I always appreciate when people share their personal experiences, especially when it relates to the topic of discussion. His upbringing gives him a valuable perspective on this issue and I am very glad he's shared his opinions and experiences. I'm also glad he's as well-read as he is and love that he was able to call "bullshit" on a poster's erroneous claim that Vallée claimed the UFO phenomena was demonic. Thanks for your contributions and for deciding to stick around.

Although I was taken to church by my parents when I was a kid, it was low key in our house and once I turned 16yo I never went back. Christianity never resonated with me and I personally think it's a bunch of hokum. Therefore, whenever someone starts trying to view the UFO phenomenon through a "Jesus prism" I lose all patience.

I could type more but I'm hungry...

 

[mike]

NANTUCKET..............!!!!!!!!

Lost my leg to a shark off the coast of nantucket...... Slowly i turned.......

Oh dear, religion has never been an accurate way of describing the universe.

To give an example In Norse mythology Thor was responsible for lightning. But of course science tells us thats just silly

Phys. Rev. Lett. 110, 185005 (2013) - Runaway Breakdown and Hydrometeors in Lightning Initiation

With promising research that suggests cosmic rays may be the factor that initiates them

(In delicious irony Thor was credited with battling Trolls)

A Scandinavian folk belief that lightning frightens away trolls and jötnar appears in numerous Scandinavian folktales, and may be a late reflection of Thor's role in fighting such beings. In connection, the lack of trolls and ettins in modern Scandinavia is explained as a result of the "accuracy and efficiency of the lightning strokes

So to suggest that a mythology that fails utterly to accurately explain the natural universe would somehow have the good oil on ET's is laughable.

I do however agree with soupie that if this phenomena has been around for a long time, biblical references may refer to the same phenomena, but again would fail to accurately define them as it fails to do so on so many other topics such as mans creation, age of the earth etc etc.

The bible is no more accurate a source to describe the nature of ET than Norse mythology is in explaining how lightning is formed.

In the recent newsletter Gene posits

What I’m talking about here is a malleable reality that is influenced by our beliefs and expectations, or perhaps our collective unconscious.

But with respect my friend i hold a different view, The nature of lightning has remained unchanged, the nature of lightning hasnt changed with our understanding of it. Just the lexicon used to describe that reality.

These words/concepts were not available to the Norse mythmakers

The particular electric pulse discharges are observed in thunderclouds during the initiation stage of negative cloud-to-ground lightning. The discharges are quite different from conventional streamers or leaders. A detailed analysis reveals that the shape of the pulses is determined by the runaway breakdown of air in the thundercloud electric field initiated by extensive atmospheric showers (RB-EAS). The high amplitude of the pulse electric current is due to the multiple microdischarges at hydrometeors stimulated and synchronized by the low-energy electrons generated in the RB-EAS process. The series of specific pulse discharges leads to charge reset from hydrometeors to the free ions and creates numerous stretched ion clusters, both positive and negative. As a result, a wide region in the thundercloud with a sufficiently high fractal ion conductivity is formed. The charge transport by ions plays a decisive role in the lightning leader preconditioning.

Without such technical language all they had was "Thor does it"

But the reality behind the nature of lightning is unchanged.

So too do i think the key to understanding the UFO enigma resides.

Its in the lexicon, Chariots of the gods is not as accurate a description as Plasma physics et al

http://www.hyper.net/ufo/physics.html (This is an excellent link, lots of good reading in this one)

Thats where imo the answer lies, and its why i consider biblical explainations a step backwards.

Supertitious explanations have time and time again been replaced with scientific language. Lightning is but one of many examples.

The reality doesnt change, just the language used to describe it, the more advanced the lexicon, the better our understanding is.

 

[mike]

You may as well have had this guy on instead, he wouldnt have made any more sense, but would have been much more entertaining

 

[Gene Steinberg]

 

[Mrmajix]

I found this show frustrating not because of Mr. Stinnett's hypothesis but because of his inability or lack of confidence to articulate it. I was curious about what type of comments would be posted about this show and my suspicions were confirmed. Paranormal-correctness today requires that we should not be encumbered by a belief system or else our minds will not be open to new ideas. It's funny how the paranormal community as a whole is open to some of the wildest speculative theories but any references to a Judeo Christianity connection is fair game for whispers and giggles. I don't find this conversation any less credible than Chris' weekly references to "beliefs of some of the indigenous people" which seems to be given a heightened level of respect.