January 11, 2015 — David Stinnett

[Randall]

An Addendum: I really need to STOP participating in the forum. To me, it has this elite small group of 3 or 4 who chatter with each other in the Consciousness Part 3 and a few other threads. I wonder how many potential forum contributers were scared away after reading their intellectual mutual-self-masturbatory posts. I think you need a PHD to understand. Then there are the other threads, which can at times have interesting discussions. But most people just post 1 liners, which I find rather boring. But I am not leaving because any one else is at fault. I did not mean to give that impression. I just thought that as a part of leaving, I would offer a quick critique on the forum. I remember it back in 2010 when this place really jumped with tremendous energy and thrilling topics. Now it seems like Rome after the Fall of the Roman Empire. From a population of 1.5 million inhabitants, it dropped down to 10,000 at one point. (I wonder if a similar fate could await the great cities of the USA some day, but I digress.....)

Thanks to all those who "liked" some of my posts. I have paid a year to be a subscriber, so I will be listening to every single broadcast. Best wishes to anyone who reads this. Buh Bye.

Sorry to see you go.

 

[Randall]

Just listening to this episode now. Chris' opening rant criticizing the forum discussion about how Heaven's Gate got the label "UFO cult" seems rather narrow minded. That label had a really negative influence on the reputation of the field, so understanding it should be important to those who are serious about the subject mater. It was a perfectly legitimate discussion that elicited participation that I appreciated ( even if Chris didn't ). The participants were valuable in helping me gain a clearer picture of what really happened. Stuff I didn't know. What's wrong with that?

Simply saying "who cares" makes me wonder what does matter to Chris. If he just wants great one liners maybe he should stick to comic books, and if he wants to criticize forum posters maybe he should put it in writing in the forum where it can be hashed out in a less one-sided manner, rather than making such negative comments on-air. I'm so sorry that issues that affect the reputation of the field matter to me. And I'm so sorry I like to discuss them in here in some detail to try to understand and mitigate some of that damage. And that's hard enough without getting trashed for it on-air in a way that undermines that effort.

A much more useful and interesting preamble might have focused on the role of the media in creating and propagating the "UFO cult" label. I'm sure Gene and Chris could have contributed some interesting points based on their experience in the media. But no. Gene gave Chris a pass. I suppose maybe he had little choice because of time and the show had to move on, but it was yet another disappointment that made me wonder why I bother participating in the forum, and feel like I was basically being told to go away ( again ). So maybe that's what I'll do. In fact I just turned off the episode and am done here. Anyone who wants to contact me in the future can do so via the USI website.

 

[Smokingpug]

So our discussion with David Stinnett, a long-time UFO researcher, took somewhat of a surprising turn this week.

We welcome your comments.

So our discussion with David Stinnett, a long-time UFO researcher, took somewhat of a surprising turn this week.

We welcome your comments.

 

[technomage]

I liked the show even though David Stinnet was a bit incoherent. Gene was not a dick by any means. Chris was more "aggressive" in his questioning than Gene, and he wasn't called a dick for some reason.

Anyway, David said several things that didn't make sense to me (some of which were mentioned in other posts, which I only skimmed as I don't have the time to read all the posts in every forum I visit, so I particularly like short posts):

1. Jacques Vallee explaining UFOs as demonic in nature.
2. The idea that UFOs are ETs is a remote possibility.
3. Ezekiel's wheels as prophecy of the 4 gospels.

I forgot what else, but prior posters have identified many other problems with his presentation.

Regarding the ET Hypothesis, I still think it is the best one to explain the UFO enigma, or at least as good as any other, with the "demonic" hypothesis being at the bottom of the list.

I say this because I think every thing in UFO lore can be explained by the ET hypothesis, and since the universe is so vast and intelligent life is ever more likely, why make things more complicated with more bizarre hypotheses that don't explain the facts any better than the ET hypothesis does?

 

[Polterwurst]

Hello, I've been more of a lurker before joining the forums and I've really enjoyed the Paracast a lot. This episode has definitely been interesting. I'm by no means as well read in ufology and the paranormal or an expert of any kind as most of the other members or the hosts, but was wondering if anyone looked at the 'Seeingufospa' lady that he mentioned in the episode.

It's unfortunate that this gets overlooked because of the "demonic" assumption.

I think that Mrs Kruse has recorded some very interesting material. She is honest, the videos are not fake and she does look out for alternative explanations like planes, bats, insects and satellites. IMO, one of the more sensible things Mr Stinnet said in the interview, was that she has very interesting videos that should be looked at.

So, yes, I have looked at her Youtube channel and I definitely think that she's got something that should interest people. Why she gets so much flak by people who often don't do their own observations and night filming, is beyond me. I also think Mrs Kruse would make a great guest, as I've posted on the guest suggestion thread.

As for Mr Stinnet, I'm asking myself what made him accept this explanation. Was it a specific experience, the overall evidence or someone's books? I mean, he had just said himself that you have to step back sometimes and not allow the strangeness of it all make you jump off the deep end, before happily going on to explain why UFOs are demonic and you have to SEE THE LIGHT and HAVE THE FAITH. So what the heck?

I tried to imagine myself in his place, having seen some phenomena myself and watching Mrs Kruses vids and other less flaky evidence and thinking "holy s#*t this stuff is real".
Faced with this realization, some people just might not feel safe any more. Their whole worldview is turned upside down. Combine that with a belief that the phenomena aren't material, but consciousness-based (spiritual), and you might end up looking for something to protect yourself with and give back some stability and order to your world. Which to some people means becoming deeply religious.

So I guess I can't blame him. It's just that the phenomenon probably doesn't care much, which particular god or gods or sacred principles you believe in.

 

[mike]

My Catweazel reference makes the point i made earlier about lexicons

To us, a lightbulb is no mystery, we know who invented it, what its made of and how it works. we have the lexicon to accurately explain and understand it.

To Catweazel who does not have this lexicon, he must fall back on simplistic and inaccurate explainations, To him the lightbulb is the sun in a bottle.

Thats the problem with using old religious texts as explanations. They didnt accurately describe the mechanisms that drive reality/the universe when they were written, and certainly dont do so today.

Whats worse is for so long, these "guesses" at how the universe was made and works were protected by the superstitious belief that since they are (insert magic sky man of choice here)'s word. they must be correct and cannot be questioned.

Galileo's science was correct, but the superstition of the day was more powerful.

These traditions have a long history of forcing fairy tales on us, at the expense of the true facts.

There is an implied authority that comes with quoting these texts as explanations, we are not supposed to question the validity of the explanations.

Thats no way to sort wheat from chaff

 

[ElmoFUD]

Forgive me for my self-indulgence (this is only the tip of that particular ice berg), but I came upon this picture today that sums up this episode for me. Click on the picture to read the text.

Perfect. Mixing science and bible quotes is a complete waste of time and is about as entertaining as fart jokes.

 

[bballstar2103]

I apologize if I came off as too strident. Like Gene, I have had people like this man in my family, and have witnessed their knee jerk proclamation that just about anything NEW or UNKNOWN was demonic. My great grandparents homesteaded in Northern Wisconsin. When the project to bring electricity to rural areas was in full force in the 1930s and onward, my great grandmother called it "demonic". I guess god wanted us to all keep using oil lamps. When my great grandmother referred to any other race or religion, she always referred to them as "demonic". She even thought that converting most cars from stick shift to automatic was "demonic" (idle hands do the devil's work, ya know). Now I still bristle when anyone casually classifies anything or anyone as "demonic". The word "demonic" is so loaded with religious fear and condemnation that any humans or "aliens" given this classification by a pious believer are open game. The "demonic" is to be destroyed! I can easily visualize my great grandmother encountering a UFO on her farm. She would have grabbed a hunting rifle and shot at it. Who knows what response that might have invoked. Per David, it would probably depend on whether the UFO had angelic pilots or demonic pilots (perhaps taking a break from the cosmic battle for human souls to instead check out my great grandmother's dairy cows).

Not every Christian is how you described. I am Christian and I believe them to be demonic, but I don't consider you demonic. I apologize some Christian did call you that. That was wrong. We're not ALL like that. Nor do I go around thinking anything new is demonic, and am not utterly stupid as you say any person who uses religious text in referencing aliens. Totally untrue. Mr stinnet just embarrassed himself and all Christians. I quite honestly think he's a false Christian trying to profit from this belief system. Had he been a true Christian he'd have no trouble citing the texts within the Bible which discuss demons and backs his claims. It is there.

Cheers