So our discussion with David Stinnett, a long-time UFO researcher, took somewhat of a surprising turn this week.
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January 11, 2015 — David Stinnett
- Thread starter Gene Steinberg
- Start date
wwkirk
Paranormal Adept
I thought Gene did a good job of pressing David for showing why a demon hypothesis is more plausible than an alien hypothesis. David utterly failed to prove his point and resorted to blind citing of the Bible. He didn't even show why according to the Bible UFOs are demoniac.
Chris and I also discussed this at great length during the After The Paracast podcast posted after our regular episode was broadcast. So if you haven't subscribed yet to The Paracast+, this would be a great time to consider doing so.
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Randall
J. Randall Murphy
SheaOlmsford
Paranormal Adept
Good heavens, ufology! Chris talks about you all the time on After-the-Paracast. I thought you knew.
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SheaOlmsford
Paranormal Adept
In my humble opinion, I believe this gentleman was a waste of a week's program. He is a fundamentalist Christian and evaluates everything through his particular interpretation of his "holy book". This holy book acts as his LIFE FILTER (or his box) from which he views all of reality. We may each have such a box.
From David's box, he can only categorize UFOs and their assumed pilots within the Biblical good versus evil cosmic battle soap opera. So evidently he considers some UFOs as carrying good angels and other UFOs as carrying demons. (Tangential reference: the scene in the WIZARD OF OZ where Glinda asks Dorothy "Are you a good witch or a bad witch?")
As a gay man, I have had people like this guy CALL ME DEMONIC while thumping on their holy book. Perhaps to listeners who have never encountered this fundamentalist Christian viewpoint towards UFO's before, it is valuable for them to realize where they are coming from.
My point-of-view is that anyone who subscribes to a religious text like the Bible and then interprets other people and all events via that ancient book is not worth having on the Paracast. Such people are driven by blind faith and this can lead to stupidity beyond belief.
I congratulate Gene and Chris for a very patient calm always polite response to this guy.
From David's box, he can only categorize UFOs and their assumed pilots within the Biblical good versus evil cosmic battle soap opera. So evidently he considers some UFOs as carrying good angels and other UFOs as carrying demons. (Tangential reference: the scene in the WIZARD OF OZ where Glinda asks Dorothy "Are you a good witch or a bad witch?")
As a gay man, I have had people like this guy CALL ME DEMONIC while thumping on their holy book. Perhaps to listeners who have never encountered this fundamentalist Christian viewpoint towards UFO's before, it is valuable for them to realize where they are coming from.
My point-of-view is that anyone who subscribes to a religious text like the Bible and then interprets other people and all events via that ancient book is not worth having on the Paracast. Such people are driven by blind faith and this can lead to stupidity beyond belief.
I congratulate Gene and Chris for a very patient calm always polite response to this guy.
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SheaOlmsford
Paranormal Adept
I apologize if I came off as too strident. Like Gene, I have had people like this man in my family, and have witnessed their knee jerk proclamation that just about anything NEW or UNKNOWN was demonic. My great grandparents homesteaded in Northern Wisconsin. When the project to bring electricity to rural areas was in full force in the 1930s and onward, my great grandmother called it "demonic". I guess god wanted us to all keep using oil lamps. When my great grandmother referred to any other race or religion, she always referred to them as "demonic". She even thought that converting most cars from stick shift to automatic was "demonic" (idle hands do the devil's work, ya know). Now I still bristle when anyone casually classifies anything or anyone as "demonic". The word "demonic" is so loaded with religious fear and condemnation that any humans or "aliens" given this classification by a pious believer are open game. The "demonic" is to be destroyed! I can easily visualize my great grandmother encountering a UFO on her farm. She would have grabbed a hunting rifle and shot at it. Who knows what response that might have invoked. Per David, it would probably depend on whether the UFO had angelic pilots or demonic pilots (perhaps taking a break from the cosmic battle for human souls to instead check out my great grandmother's dairy cows).
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Randall
J. Randall Murphy
LOL, I can only dream of the day when what I say actually matters enough for my name to be mentioned during such elite discussionsGood heavens, ufology! Chris talks about you all the time on After-the-Paracast. I thought you knew.
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DaveM
Paranormal Adept
As soon as I saw Stinnett's name linked to L.A. Marzulli I knew there would be trouble. I happened to read Marzulli's 'Nephilim' book. He links virtually every paranormal or ufo happening to demons or the devil per the Bible.
People like that can never think outside the box. They will never change their viewpoint no matter how you respond to them.
People like that can never think outside the box. They will never change their viewpoint no matter how you respond to them.
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Wade
FeralNormal master
I had less problem with David's belief that the ufo phenomenon was "biblical" in nature than the fact he was presenting his findings in broad sweeping generalizations. He never once gave any halfway scintillating evidence to back up his beliefs. His argument basically came down to "it's all right there in the book, so what else can it be." If he is such an absolutist he should be in a position of presenting absolute evidence or at the very least intriguing evidence to consider that what he believed had merit and given a myriad of opportunities to do so he instead chose to take the easy way out. What ever happened to showing your work?
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ufoangel1407
Paranormal Novice
I was really enjoying this up till around 2hrs mins when I felt Gene turned into a dick. I think David is knowledgeable, held his own and answered everything that was thrown at him. On this forum I cannot believe he's been accused of not thinking outside of the box when it appears it's a lot of people on here with closed minds. To even throw the "I'm gay" and to imply David is in anyway against you or his views are responsible for what you have gone through is just total bs. Instead of respecting his views and ideas some choose to have a total melt down. He never once asked anyone to believe him just to consider the possibility or get off your own backsides and take a look for yourselves. I think if you are not prepared to have an open mind in this field then you shouldn't be here.
ufoangel1407
Paranormal Novice
I guess it's hard to show anything on a podcast where you can't be seen
ufoangel1407
Paranormal Novice
You have a closed mind. So who is not thinking outside the box here?
ufoangel1407
Paranormal Novice
Totally disagree
ufoangel1407
Paranormal Novice
I think you were lucky to have him. I for one totally enjoyed his concepts and different thinking. Why you turned into a dick at around 2hrs 5 mins is beyond me. That was the only thing that spoiled my first time ever listening to your show. And I only tuned in to hear first hand David speak as it's hard getting good interviews here in the UK.
DaveM
Paranormal Adept
I take it you must agree with his bible based take on ufos. I would like for you to point out where devils, demons and ufos are mentioned in the bible, if you can. Instead of merely disagreeing with posters here, give us details on what you believe to be true.
ufoangel1407
Paranormal Novice
What is true? Can anyone here show me a UFO or a real life "alien"? No you can't. What is possible? Well a lot could be possible. Wether or not I am a staunch kiss ass follower of Mr Stinnett is totally irrelevant. He has decades of research behind him. His interviews I find fascinating and am open to the possibility. And not so narrow minded as to completely dismiss him and his perfectly logical and reliable research. You mention the bible, do I believe the bible? Today's altered parts missing idiot dictated take on the bible? No. But there are very old bibles out there containing fascinating writings which I find compelling. There are people/researchers out there who have totally different ideas and theories to Mr Stinnett. Would I be so ignorant as to dismiss them? No I would not, I would sit and listen and respect the work they have done and declare it a possibility. Not close my mind and be so rude. You would like me to point out where the devil, demons and ufos are mentioned in the bible. I would like to play tongues with Brad Pitt, but it's never gonna happen.
I will say I was christened but no longer follow that faith as I will not follow a religion dictated by today's bible I do not trust. I do however believe in God.
When someone sits there for over two hours and gives you his research his findings, shares his ideas gives you thoughts on where to research. Show a little respect it costs nothing.
In short, then, you have only faith and no hard evidence to prove your point of view about UFOs. That is being closed minded, and a pot/kettle situation.
On The Paracast we ask the hard questions, and, in fact, we haven't stated that UFOs are definitely alien visitors. We always insist that different points of view be given fair hearings. But it requires facts and evidence, not belief.
On The Paracast we ask the hard questions, and, in fact, we haven't stated that UFOs are definitely alien visitors. We always insist that different points of view be given fair hearings. But it requires facts and evidence, not belief.
ufoangel1407
Paranormal Novice
The fact remains that this show was great until two hours in when you turned into a dick. For me you spoiled the show. Pot Kettle whatever. There is something out there I don't know what but my mind remains very open. Unlike some of your listeners. Quit trying to sensationalise your show and stop being argumentative with your guests. You had a brilliant show going on and up until your tone changed I had the utmost respect for you and thought you were a fair and decent guy asking all the right questions I was engrossed in your show. There was no need to turn it sour.
What do I know? What have I seen? Why do people like me choose to keep our mouths tightly shut? Why did I go looking for answers? Until people like you play nicely then my dear you will never know.