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Why are people so surprised?

diny

Paranormally Abled
The United States government has just released UFO documentation following the videos from Naval aviators showing UFOs. The U.K. and other European governments had already done so a few years ago. Mexico accepts UFOs as do some South American countries. Other things exist, not just UFOs.

The problem is that the government and science do not believe in these things. Well, at least science doesn't. So, they aren't real. The problem with science is that scientists only know what they know, not what has yet to be discovered. Also, science is a discipline. Only certain theories (scientific facts) are accepted. Scientists who go against the current beliefs can actually lose their careers. The government hides everything. I know because I used to work in the intelligence community.

The average person, the non-scientist, experiences things. This is not accepted by science. If scientists don't have proof, it doesn't exist. Yet, many things that science has not yet discovered do exist. When millions of people have experienced something, it is still not considered credible until science and the government say that it is credible even though there is evidence.

Sure, there are people who make up stories, create Photoshopped images, or are simply gullible or mentally ill. However, many experiencers are sane, honest and aware.

I trust myself more than science or the government. I research conspiracy theories, UFOs, unsolved mysteries and science. I attempt to discover the truth, the real truth. There is some truth in many beliefs be it science or unscientific theories. There are also skewed viewpoints in both.

Not all conspiracies are true but some are and some have some truth. This should not be surprising. It is only surprising if people believe the government and scientists or see that a particular conspiracy theory is illogical.
 
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Bob Zanotti

Onbeat/Offbeat Broadcaster
I like your reasoning. I've been a long-time critic of (pseudo-) Science for the same reasons: narrow-mindedness, lack of imagination, and a strict adherence to the orthodox that doesn't go beyond what it can see, touch, taste and measure, but that's it.. That is not real "Science". Orthodoxy is against anything that it hasn't accepted, and it spends huge amounts of energy denying it. It criticizes "Religion", but that's exactly what it is: the "religion" of disbelief. I call them the "irrational Rationalists". Today's "Science" is tomorrow's quackery, and today's quackery is tomorrow's "Science". The same applies to Medicine, BTW.

As for Einstein, he publicly stated that he was not an atheist and that he resented people who used his name to promote it. I posted a long thread on this on the Forum years ago.
 

USI Calgary

J. Randall Murphy
Staff member
You guys both make sense to me. Something I wonder it is how long it will take before we humans lose our need to tribalize our belief systems. I for one, find it possible to appreciate science while at the same time knowing that science doesn't have all the answers, and that to stay boxed inside any particular paradigm is to limit the aperture of my worldview. Why do so many others not see ( or not want to see ) a larger slice of reality?

I find hard to accept that there are a lot of people who don't want their aperture to open up any further, regardless of whether or not it might expand their understanding or appreciation. They have invested a lot of time in building their personal version of the world, and will defend it against anyone who dares disrupt it. Meanwhile, others like myself constantly look for ( or even invite ) ways to challenge what they believe.

If you know what I'm getting at, the best we can do is sort of imagine what it must be like to think one way or the other, but it's impossible to imagine both situations at the same time. That's how foreign some people's minds are to others. They are so vastly different in perspective that we cannot even grasp what it must be like to look at the world the way they do. Yet on the surface, you'd never think they were much different than anyone else.
 
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Peacekeeper

Skilled Investigator
The United States government has just released UFO documentation following the videos from Naval aviators showing UFOs. The U.K. and other European governments had already done so a few years ago. Mexico accepts UFOs as do some South American countries. Other things exist, not just UFOs.

The problem is that the government and science do not believe in these things. Well, at least science doesn't. So, they aren't real. The problem with science is that scientists only know what they know, not what has yet to be discovered. Also, science is a discipline. Only certain theories (scientific facts) are accepted. Scientists who go against the current beliefs can actually lose their careers. The government hides everything. I know because I used to work in the intelligence community.

The average person, the non-scientist, experiences things. This is not accepted by science. If scientists don't have proof, it doesn't exist. Yet, many things that science has not yet discovered do exist. When millions of people have experienced something, it is still not considered credible until science and the government say that it is credible even though there is evidence.

Sure, there are people who make up stories, create Photoshopped images, or are simply gullible or mentally ill. However, many experiencers are sane, honest and aware.

I trust myself more than science or the government. I research conspiracy theories, UFOs, unsolved mysteries and science. I attempt to discover the truth, the real truth. There is some truth in many beliefs be it science or unscientific theories. There are also skewed viewpoints in both.

Not all conspiracies are true but some are and some have some truth. This should not be surprising. It is only surprising if people believe the government and scientists or see that a particular conspiracy theory is illogical.
Personally I don't take science articles serious if the word "believe" is used too much. Sure you can say it by mistake once or twice. But if I find that word in every sentence, I usually walk away. Science has got nothing to do with belief/faith/trust!

You say the gov. has released ufo documents? Let's see it! Show me!
 

Farlig Gulstein

Skilled Investigator
Personally I don't take science articles serious if the word "believe" is used too much. Sure you can say it by mistake once or twice. But if I find that word in every sentence, I usually walk away. Science has got nothing to do with belief/faith/trust!

You say the gov. has released ufo documents? Let's see it! Show me!
Say there, Peacekeeper, you've said in other posts that you are a scientist. So, what's your name and what scientific institution are you associated with? What are your scientific credentials? What universites have you graduated from and in what majors? What is your current area of expertise?

Thanks for helping us out.
 

Peacekeeper

Skilled Investigator
Say there, Peacekeeper, you've said in other posts that you are a scientist. So, what's your name and what scientific institution are you associated with? What are your scientific credentials? What universites have you graduated from and in what majors? What is your current area of expertise?

Thanks for helping us out.
I made the greatest discovery on Earth, I found the answer why and how everything exists, why there's something rather than nothing.
My work that defines me.

Discoverer/inventor/genius is my level of intelligence.
 

diny

Paranormally Abled
I like your reasoning. I've been a long-time critic of (pseudo-) Science for the same reasons: narrow-mindedness, lack of imagination, and a strict adherence to the orthodox that doesn't go beyond what it can see, touch, taste and measure, but that's it.. That is not real "Science". Orthodoxy is against anything that it hasn't accepted, and it spends huge amounts of energy denying it. It criticizes "Religion", but that's exactly what it is: the "religion" of disbelief. I call them the "irrational Rationalists". Today's "Science" is tomorrow's quackery, and today's quackery is tomorrow's "Science". The same applies to Medicine, BTW.

As for Einstein, he publicly stated that he was not an atheist and that he resented people who used his name to promote it. I posted a long thread on this on the Forum years ago.
I like your reasoning as well. Facts are facts no matter who tries to hide them and illogical thinking will never be logic. To me, this sums it all up.
 

diny

Paranormally Abled
I made the greatest discovery on Earth, I found the answer why and how everything exists, why there's something rather than nothing.
My work that defines me.

Discoverer/inventor/genius is my level of intelligence.
Please tell me your findings even though I, too, know the answer. I would just like to hear your viewpoint.
 

diny

Paranormally Abled
Personally I don't take science articles serious if the word "believe" is used too much. Sure you can say it by mistake once or twice. But if I find that word in every sentence, I usually walk away. Science has got nothing to do with belief/faith/trust!

You say the gov. has released ufo documents? Let's see it! Show me!
I agree wholeheartedly. I love when scientists, who only believe in tested and proven facts, state that they believe. How can you believe in things that have not been proven when you only believe in things that have been proven? You can't have it both ways.
You guys both make sense to me. Something I wonder it is how long it will take before we humans lose our need to tribalize our belief systems. I for one, find it possible to appreciate science while at the same time knowing that science doesn't have all the answers, and that to stay boxed inside any particular paradigm is to limit the aperture of my worldview. Why do so many others not see ( or not want to see ) a larger slice of reality?

I find hard to accept that there are a lot of people who don't want their aperture to open up any further, regardless of whether or not it might expand their understanding or appreciation. They have invested a lot of time in building their personal version of the world, and will defend it against anyone who dares disrupt it. Meanwhile, others like myself constantly look for ( or even invite ) ways to challenge what they believe.

If you know what I'm getting at, the best we can do is sort of imagine what it must be like to think one way or the other, but it's impossible to imagine both situations at the same time. That's how foreign some people's minds are to others. They are so vastly different in perspective that we cannot even grasp what it must be like to look at the world the way they do. Yet on the surface, you'd never think they were much different than anyone else.
I agree with the exception that I do grasp both sides of many subjects. I continuously study opposing viewpoints in an effort to deduce the truth. To a great extent, I understand the viewpoints of religion, science, conspiracy theories, the government, history and many other subjects. I find this very fascinating. It stems boredom.
 

diny

Paranormally Abled
Personally I don't take science articles serious if the word "believe" is used too much. Sure you can say it by mistake once or twice. But if I find that word in every sentence, I usually walk away. Science has got nothing to do with belief/faith/trust!

You say the gov. has released ufo documents? Let's see it! Show me!
You asked me for proof that the government has admitted to the existence of UFOs. I'm surprised that you haven't seen this on the news lately. It has been big news. Google "pentagon releases UFO info" You will find coverage by CNN, NY Times, BBC, CBS, NBC ......
 

Peacekeeper

Skilled Investigator
You asked me for proof that the government has admitted to the existence of UFOs. I'm surprised that you haven't seen this on the news lately. It has been big news. Google "pentagon releases UFO info" You will find coverage by CNN, NY Times, BBC, CBS, NBC ......
You think the military can't get bored? I've see that video, I'm not impressed! I guess you were right, scientists don't believe it.😁
 

Michael Allen

Paranormal Adept
The United States government has just released UFO documentation following the videos from Naval aviators showing UFOs. The U.K. and other European governments had already done so a few years ago. Mexico accepts UFOs as do some South American countries. Other things exist, not just UFOs.

The problem is that the government and science do not believe in these things. Well, at least science doesn't. So, they aren't real. The problem with science is that scientists only know what they know, not what has yet to be discovered. Also, science is a discipline. Only certain theories (scientific facts) are accepted. Scientists who go against the current beliefs can actually lose their careers. The government hides everything. I know because I used to work in the intelligence community.

The average person, the non-scientist, experiences things. This is not accepted by science. If scientists don't have proof, it doesn't exist. Yet, many things that science has not yet discovered do exist. When millions of people have experienced something, it is still not considered credible until science and the government say that it is credible even though there is evidence.

Sure, there are people who make up stories, create Photoshopped images, or are simply gullible or mentally ill. However, many experiencers are sane, honest and aware.

I trust myself more than science or the government. I research conspiracy theories, UFOs, unsolved mysteries and science. I attempt to discover the truth, the real truth. There is some truth in many beliefs be it science or unscientific theories. There are also skewed viewpoints in both.

Not all conspiracies are true but some are and some have some truth. This should not be surprising. It is only surprising if people believe the government and scientists or see that a particular conspiracy theory is illogical.
The first thing to do is to check the "released" with what has already been studied and analyzed. "Proof" doesn't exist in science; that is a mathematical notion based on a system of logic based on unquestioned axioms. Science deals with "theory"

A scientific theory is a coherent group of propositions formulated to explain a group of facts or phenomena in the natural world and repeatedly confirmed through experiment or observation


Most "conspiracy theories" do not fit in this framework...

A grain of truth may exist in our own mythologies that continue to propagate to this very day--heavenly beings coming down, etc...

I don't think that any government is capable of hiding such a secret...but perhaps the one's visiting have that capability.
 

diny

Paranormally Abled
The first thing to do is to check the "released" with what has already been studied and analyzed. "Proof" doesn't exist in science; that is a mathematical notion based on a system of logic based on unquestioned axioms. Science deals with "theory"

A scientific theory is a coherent group of propositions formulated to explain a group of facts or phenomena in the natural world and repeatedly confirmed through experiment or observation

Most "conspiracy theories" do not fit in this framework...

A grain of truth may exist in our own mythologies that continue to propagate to this very day--heavenly beings coming down, etc...

I don't think that any government is capable of hiding such a secret...but perhaps the one's visiting have that capability.
I love your reply. You are so right about science and math. However, some scientific theories have been proven as they are highly reproducible. It has been proven that Amoxicillin care kill some forms of bacteria. Some things in science are theories, some are proven and some are denied and ignored without attempting to test theories or believe credible evidence.
 

diny

Paranormally Abled
The first thing to do is to check the "released" with what has already been studied and analyzed. "Proof" doesn't exist in science; that is a mathematical notion based on a system of logic based on unquestioned axioms. Science deals with "theory"

A scientific theory is a coherent group of propositions formulated to explain a group of facts or phenomena in the natural world and repeatedly confirmed through experiment or observation

Most "conspiracy theories" do not fit in this framework...

A grain of truth may exist in our own mythologies that continue to propagate to this very day--heavenly beings coming down, etc...

I don't think that any government is capable of hiding such a secret...but perhaps the one's visiting have that capability.
Actually, UFOs have been proven over and over. Not only have Naval pilots encountered them but commercial pilots, astronauts, policemen and other highly skilled and reputable people. In fact, in Los Angeles on February 25, 1942, the U.S. Army made a concerted effort to shoot down unknown objects in the sky. This is known as the "Battle of Los Angeles". There were pictures in the LA Times. People still try to dismiss this as a weather balloon or war nerves but the picture tells the truth. Additionally, there have been several mass sightings. Unless hundreds or thousands of people can all be hallucinating at the same time during several sightings in different locations I would tend to believe that there is something to this. I am not sure exactly what to label this but I do know that they aren't ours and they aren't weather balloons.
 

Trajanus

Paranormal Adept
…. Well, at least science doesn't. So, they aren't real…
Not all scientists have/had this attitude. The late Stan Friedman was a nuclear physicist. Long ago, Edwards showed that some pro astronomers accept the reality of the phenomenon.

If scientists don't have proof, it doesn't exist. Yet, many things that science has not yet discovered do exist.
The evidence for dark energy leaves something to be desired but they believe its real. I think the problem with UFOlogy is "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

However, many experiencers are sane, honest and aware.
Sure in fact that's the norm for experiencers.

I trust myself more than science or the government. I research conspiracy theories, UFOs, unsolved mysteries and science. I attempt to discover the truth, the real truth.
OT but I'm curious what people here think of this blog post's view of the purpose of alien visitations: Starman's Future Visions

It is only surprising if people believe the government....
Especially in view of the absurdity of government explanations like "swamp gas."
 

USI Calgary

J. Randall Murphy
Staff member
OT but I'm curious what people here think of this blog post's view of the purpose of alien visitations: Starman's Future Visions
From Staman's blog ...

"... exactly the impression the phenomenon wished to impart with the sighting. ETs have a long running conditioning program, part of which is to get humanity used to the idea of aliens arriving here. Unmistakably alien beings are an important part of this conditioning. "​

Sounds like desensitization. It seems that's been going on so long now that if aliens actually did show-up, we'd be more concerned they were wearing face masks and physical distancing than whether or not they were actually aliens. Welcome back!
 

diny

Paranormally Abled
From Staman's blog ...

"... exactly the impression the phenomenon wished to impart with the sighting. ETs have a long running conditioning program, part of which is to get humanity used to the idea of aliens arriving here. Unmistakably alien beings are an important part of this conditioning. "​

Sounds like desensitization. It seems that's been going on so long now that if aliens actually did show-up, we'd be more concerned they were wearing face masks and physical distancing than whether or not they were actually aliens. Welcome back!
I absolutely agree. The problem is that governments and scientists have also been conditioned, not just the general populat
From Staman's blog ...

"... exactly the impression the phenomenon wished to impart with the sighting. ETs have a long running conditioning program, part of which is to get humanity used to the idea of aliens arriving here. Unmistakably alien beings are an important part of this conditioning. "​

Sounds like desensitization. It seems that's been going on so long now that if aliens actually did show-up, we'd be more concerned they were wearing face masks and physical distancing than whether or not they were actually aliens. Welcome back!
I absolutely agree. The biggest problem is that governments and scientists have also been conditioned, not just the general population.
 

USI Calgary

J. Randall Murphy
Staff member
I absolutely agree. The biggest problem is that governments and scientists have also been conditioned, not just the general population.
The trick is figuring out which ones have become desensitized to the reality and which ones have become desensitized to the fiction.
 

diny

Paranormally Abled
The trick is figuring out which ones have become desensitized to the reality and which ones have become desensitized to the fiction.
That's difficult. There are so many and they write journal articles which are peer reviewed then agreed on by other scientists. The results are then made public and the public is given erroneous information but the public doesn't know that it is erroneous. If scientists say it is true or false, that must be the case. How do you find all of the errors by all of the scientists who misinform people? How do you take all of them to task by explaining facts? How do you get them to restate truth? How will you get the public to believe you instead of scientists? How do you pull down all of the disparities and replace them with the truth? It's nice that there are some honest and knowledgeable scientists but many are neither.
 

Peacekeeper

Skilled Investigator
I meet different alien species everyday since 2016. But I found something bigger that interests me more at the moment. I'm on angel league now. This is quite beyond any advanced civilizations. I'm very close to join the others. My body is still fighting with the false facts made up by this world. But even if my body dies right now, I'm already an immortal. I can't really die anymore. I feel that my body is changing. But most importantly, I do understand what is happening.
 


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