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When will this generation PROACTIVELY take over the UFO field? - 9/23 & 12/16 Show

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Miah

Miah

Skilled Investigator
In the 9/23 show (1:06 in) Jeremy brought up a good point that I have wondered since I started looking into the UFO field seriously. Stanton Friedman basically eluded to the same thing on your show. And that is, when will this new younger generation take the UFO field over from some of these old schoolers who seem to run it now?

You look at the big things that have defined the UFO field over the years such as The Disclosure Project, MUFON, different conferences, the vast majority of UFO documentaries and books, C2C, even the way the biggest UFO forum ATS runs amok, etc., and it's all fringe.

I don't think anyone would be better suited for making a UFO documentary, making a new MUFON type organization, starting a Disclosure Project 2.0, etc. than you guys. You have a good thing going with the Paracast, but I don't think it is really helping bring the subject to the publics attention, just more info for us UFO buffs.

If the loons like Sereda, the Billy Meier group, Greer, Hoagland, etc. can have a huge presence with fringe garbage, why can't you guys form a group of just the non-fringe scientific types like Dolan, Pope, Friedman, Knapp, etc.and the serious cases to help get this stuff to the public? As loony as Greer was he made a pretty good case for disclosure, and I am willing to bet it would have made it much further if it had been run by the right people with no crazies present.

"We gotta make a decision, are we going to do something about that, or are we gonna just let it go? It's sorta up to us in a way" - Jeremy

Maybe I am being fringe now, I dunno.
 
When will this generation take over the UFO field? - 9/23 Show

In the 9/23 show (1:06 in) Jeremy brought up a good point that I have wondered since I started looking into the UFO field seriously. Stanton Friedman basically eluded to the same thing on your show. And that is, when will this new younger generation take the UFO field over from some of these old schoolers who seem to run it now?
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It's constantly happening. The old are dying and new blood enters in. I suspect so long as science and the media stay ignorant and scoff at ufos and abduction, there will be people that prove them right by evoking scoffs and being ignorant.
 
When will this generation take over the UFO field? - 9/23 Show

Miah said:
...when will this new younger generation take the UFO field over from some of these old schoolers who seem to run it now?
Click to expand...

Dude, no one is running it. Total chaos. It's fun, though. ;)
 
When will this generation take over the UFO field? - 9/23 Show

I guess it just seems like when you learn what's going on you feel compelled to do more than just read forums and listen to radio shows on the subject.

What is needed is some real leadership from level-headed people with credentials to unite the field into a force that can make something happen.
 
When will this generation take over the UFO field? - 9/23 Show

Miah said:
I guess it just seems like when you learn what's going on you feel compelled to do more than just read forums and listen to radio shows on the subject.

What is needed is some real leadership from level-headed people with credentials to unite the field into a force that can make something happen.
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It might just be stating the obvious (and I beg your pardon if that's true), but I think "we" need money and legal authority. We need to be able to pay for extensive research and professional investigators and also have the rule of law behind us to mitigate deliberate deception. If a law enforcement officer is investigating an air safety incident, what is the penalty for lying to them? We need at least enough authority to make most people hesitant to tell anything other than the truth.

We need the right to perform extensive background checks, and the authority to compel people to talk to investigators.

If I had to form a crack team of UFO investigators, I think I would try and recruit people with no interest in the subject whatsoever --- much less a history of involvement in it.

The fear rattling around in my mind is that we would go through all this and investigate and investigate and investigate and investigate and so what? We are only left with the same thing that most of us already accept now: every now and then something weird flies through our sky. Don't know what it was. Don't know where it came from. Don't know where it went. We can investigate and analyze until we're blue in the face but I fear no answers will be forthcoming.

Somewhere somebody is laughing at us.

Yours naively,
Fitzbew
 
When will this generation take over the UFO field? - 9/23 Show

If a loon like Greer can fund the Disclosure Project and his kids in college, crazy Sereda can afford his fancy house and trips around the US, then why can't the geniuses here even afford to take Dr. Lier up on his challenge. No offense, but something's just not right about that whole picture.

I know, more people will pay for the fringe crap. But there are still plenty of scientific minded people to fund this stuff.
 
When will this generation take over the UFO field? - 9/23 Show

Another example is Frank Warren in the 9/16 (1:39 in) show talks about needing a collective effort (and funds) to be able to put scientist's boots on the ground immediately when an incident happens, to send real researchers to locations on short notice to investigate.

Look at how many people want disclosure and proof, and yet a Roswell happens in Brazil and nobody goes to check it out? Amazing!

Or as David says (1:45) to go check out the episode he saw personally in Venezuela. (Perhaps you could call the newspaper http://whois.domaintools.com/2001.com.ve )
 
When will this generation PROACTIVELY take over the UFO field? - 9/23 Show

Bump for relevance to last Dolan show. :)
 
When will this generation PROACTIVELY take over the UFO field? - 9/23 Show

I don't see it ever happening really. A jaded populace, combined with the ease of computer enhanced fakery and the general perception of these topics as "entertainment" makes for poor prospects in the field of future research.
 
When will this generation PROACTIVELY take over the UFO field? - 9/23 Show

Miah, i feel your angst. UFOlogy is one hell of a frustrating field of study but i have to agree with CapnG on this one.
 
When will this generation PROACTIVELY take over the UFO field? - 9/23 Show

I think people, particularly younger people like myself, need to stop moaning about how bad the state of UFOlogy (for lack of a better term for people with an interest in UFOs) is and do something about it, stop talking about "loons" and their "crazy" ideas and start giving publicity to the people who they think are credible and their good ideas instead. Think how much better this field of interest would look to the rest of the world if the less credable people and their ideas disappeared from the UFO Discussion Forums, radio shows and documentaries. People say there is money in "crazy" ideas, but is this true, surely there is more money and interest in credable ideas. I think the reason the "crazy" ideas get people at conferences is because the UFO community give them so much free publicity, be it good or bad, this needs to stop.
The BIG problem with this of course is that everyone has their own idea about who and what is credable and who and what isn't, all anyone can do is their best.
 
When will this generation PROACTIVELY take over the UFO field? - 9/23 Show

Stay tuned, Miah. Something along these lines is in the works. It will either be huge or fizzle away.
 
When will this generation PROACTIVELY take over the UFO field? - 9/23 Show

valiens said:
Stay tuned, Miah. Something along these lines is in the works. It will either be huge or fizzle away.
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That sounds cool, what CAN you tell us now? Who is in on it? Anything? :confused:
 
When will this generation PROACTIVELY take over the UFO field? - 9/23 Show

The problem is, what exactly are we "taking over"? A bunch of people who cant work together, cant put away greed or ego long enough to get anything done?

Start a "group", organization, or trust, and watch how that goes. The infighting in all these end up being one clique trying to force another out. One clique trying to get the other to see their way. It gets a stupid as one guy not liking another, and off it goes. MUFON is rife with this kinda stuff. I've started 3 research groups in 20 years with this, and people get into it, get pissed and drop out when they think they can do it better, or get into a fight over data interpretation. Look at TAPS this past year.

It's too volatile a field..if you can call it a field. A subject. Everyone wants the brass ring, and glory.

The best thing people can do is talk. Just talk. Research stuff on your own, correct your own mistakes, and when ya got something, submit it to the masses for review. Then, move on to the next one.
 
When will this generation PROACTIVELY take over the UFO field? - 9/23 Show

Miah, just give me a day or so. Basically, Daniel Brenton came up with a proposal that makes sense to me. We're refining it now and will present it soon enough, provided he receives positive feedback from the parties concerned.

I would say this, Jeff:

You're right to the extent that another group formed in this way would end up fighting, infighting, playing ego games, etc. if they didn't have it written into their doctrine (and mean it!) the rules of engagement. What if we completely changed the field so that instead of engaging each other in the same tired way, essentially enabling the dysfunction--what if we actually came at it from an honest place with good humor and great research and ignored all the BSers until those people caught up with us or moved on?

Is that possible?

Because I think what's different now than before is simply that enough of us really do want to do this, not just say we do and then have the same bad habits creep back in. I'm thinking ufology has hit bottom, as it were, and there's nowhere to go but up. If that turns out to not be true, then it'll be clear within a year that we've accidentally created the same old stagnant bunch of nothing that we preached against.

I know from Culture of Contact that it is possible to form a loose committee, work closely together with people whose experiences differ, pull off something big (relatively speaking) and not end up hating each other at the end, anxious to get to work on the next project. You just need the right ingredients. I'd love to see how the formula works in a different context.
 
When will this generation PROACTIVELY take over the UFO field? - 9/23 Show

To All --

I've been cogitating this issue quite a bit, as have obviously a lot of other people. Paul Kimball had his thoughts on the 11/18 episode, and The Clueless One and Tim Binnall discussed this on Tim's interview with Jeremy. Jeremy also brought me up in this interview, which is because he and I were talking about this a few weeks ago. It occurred to me that some kind of organization could be formed that might be able to manage the issue.

Jeff -- I recognize what you're saying and I know that making something like this happen is going to take a lot of dedicated effort. I personally don't see that there's a choice but to make it happen. However, the "lessons learned" from what didn't work could be extremely valuable.

( ... uh ... hold the press ... ) (Edit, 11:05 PST)

I was going to post some thoughts that I've put together, but first I want to "ping" some folks to get their input. Sorry for the change of direction. Will keep you posted.

Daniel
 
When will this generation PROACTIVELY take over the UFO field? - 9/23 Show

There seem to be too many fragments of ufology for one group to focus on. I mean can we even keep abduction and ufo's in the same basket? Can we even keep sightings in one basket?

And who do you appeal to? The shielded public? The witness? The scientists? The, god forbid, media? Is the point to convince people that these phenomena exist or to provide answers? If it is to provide answers, please don't use that fallible Occhams razor thing because we know that they are ET's right?? If I remember Joseph Citro's interview he says these experiences seem real, but anything beyond that is really unknowable. I tend to agree. On the same note I'm still interested in the truth and apparently wasting time.

The best, most recent, example of something I thought was worthwhile was the Washington conference, by James Fox and others. Shared experiences by normal, seemingly sane, credible people. Kind of like the Disclosure Project with silliness ommitted. No conclusions, no abductions, no aliens, just very strange sightings. A step towards the affirmation and acceptance of something weird, that is all. What to do with it? No idea, but a starting point.

Abductions may be real experiences, but need to be their own genre. A group is only as strong as it's weakest link and while this may be part of the field of ufology, the association of the two will make many people will tune out. Again it depends on the goals of the group and who you appeal to. Preaching to the choir seems useless and knocking on the governments door is futile. Meanwhile the phenomenon continues, ... I think.

Sorry, the new guy to the forum shouldn't be so long winded.
 
When will this generation PROACTIVELY take over the UFO field? - 9/23 Show

valiens said:
I would say this, Jeff:

You're right to the extent that another group formed in this way would end up fighting, infighting, playing ego games, etc. if they didn't have it written into their doctrine (and mean it!) the rules of engagement. What if we completely changed the field so that instead of engaging each other in the same tired way, essentially enabling the dysfunction--what if we actually came at it from an honest place with good humor and great research and ignored all the BSers until those people caught up with us or moved on?
Click to expand...

Then you have members banned, outed, whatever, who then in fits of revenge choose to start their own groups. Sure they may go nowhere, but if they do, it becomes a PR nightmare. It gets into very public eyeshot too. Not good.

Can it work? Sure. Provided one thing happens: You stay out of the UFO/paranormal venues, and communities. You keep to yourselves and do the work, until there's something to report. Then you choose a neutral outlet...not a paranormal community board on the net.

I personally would be most glad to get involved, and I'd put aside my past with such groups to focus on one that has every chance of succeeding. After talking with Daniel tonight, I believe this one could actually do it.
 
When will this generation PROACTIVELY take over the UFO field? - 9/23 Show

jritzmann said:
valiens said:
I would say this, Jeff:

You're right to the extent that another group formed in this way would end up fighting, infighting, playing ego games, etc. if they didn't have it written into their doctrine (and mean it!) the rules of engagement. What if we completely changed the field so that instead of engaging each other in the same tired way, essentially enabling the dysfunction--what if we actually came at it from an honest place with good humor and great research and ignored all the BSers until those people caught up with us or moved on?
Click to expand...

Then you have members banned, outed, whatever, who then in fits of revenge choose to start their own groups. Sure they may go nowhere, but if they do, it becomes a PR nightmare. It gets into very public eyeshot too. Not good.

Can it work? Sure. Provided one thing happens: You stay out of the UFO/paranormal venues, and communities. You keep to yourselves and do the work, until there's something to report. Then you choose a neutral outlet...not a paranormal community board on the net.

I personally would be most glad to get involved, and I'd put aside my past with such groups to focus on one that has every chance of succeeding. After talking with Daniel tonight, I believe this one could actually do it.
Click to expand...

Glad to hear this kind of dialog going on, would love to help any way I can.

I have a great idea that I think could really help the paranormal field as well, hope to see it put to use at some point.
 
When will this generation PROACTIVELY take over the UFO field? - 9/23 Show

That's just it, Jeff. It works (one hopes!) if we form a group of like-minded "serious" individuals who keep to ourselves and present our findings to "legit" periodicals, turning our backs on the circus. It's a hostile takeover of the field by way of ignoring it completely. Basically we'd be doing what mainstream science would do if they ever decided to take a concerted look at all things paranormal: Tell us "Thank you for your time, we'll take it from here."
 
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