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UFO traces in Europe

The Starman

Paranormal Maven
Many people think that reports of unrecognized flying objects are received from the United States only. Some such messages are considered to be fairy-tales, others legist stories about aliens from a outer-space visiting us. UFO's in Europe have been reported since the middle of the last century.

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1942 - Europe - FooFighters

August 1948. The whole Europe has laughed at a number of statements about aliens allegedly visiting the United States. However, on August 16, one Austrian newspaper published the article "The First Flying Disc Performances in Central Europe". The inhabitants of the small Miolvirtel town near Czech border noticed flying saucers flying at an extremely high speed and returning to their place of origin. Shortly afterwards rumors about flying objects appeared elsewhere. It was the start of a boom for European flying saucers.

Few people knew, that the UFO's have been noticed already before in Europe, but did not receive such attention. Testimonies of UFO's were described in local newspapers, mostly in Germany, France and Italy.

In November 1947, one Istanbul newspaper published witnesses testimonies about flying saucers flying over the Soviet Union and the Turkish border. The newspaper also published an opinion that perhaps Soviet scientists are experimenting with rockets driven by cosmic rays.

In March 1948, seven UFOs were observed in northern Italy. The Rome newspaper published witnesses stories about objects flying at high altitudes at extremely high speeds and producing low sounds

In August 29, 1948, newspapers across Europe wrote about strange sightings near Munich (Germany): Five air force US pilots were watching a strange silver object, similar to the so-called flying saucer hovering over the Neubiberg Air Base in Bavaria. The object was floating about 30 minutes above the air base after at a great speed, before the pilots eyes it disappeared. A similar object were seen by others American pilots a few days ago aswell.

This message knocked out astronomers and scientists. They said that this could be a secret Russian apparatus or other planet population spaceships. Some scholars have said that this is a US work.

In November 1948, Denmark newspapers wrote that unidentified flying objects had been spotted in Skagen. They were described as rockets that flew over Skagen at high altitude and disappeared in the north. One Danish Coast Guard officer saw a disk-shaped object flying at a height of several kilometers. With binoculars he saw another "shining like silver and flying in the opposite direction" object. The number of witnesses does not allow this event to calle fairy-tale.

The French magazine discovered a 500 year old manuscript telling about the UFO's: in the Christmas eve night the object "size like half a moon", was visible for almost a quarter of an hour. He made a few maneuvers, and then disappeared from the glare. "

In October 1949 , Copenhagen's inhabitants also had the opportunity to see "flying fire balls" in and around the city. Fireballs were also seen on the Bornholm Island of the Baltic Sea. Similar UFO's were seen in Sweden, just a week earlier.

Until the 1950's, reports of flying saucers were interesting to humans just a little bit more than usual news. Most UFO's were recorded in 1950-51 years. Hundreds of reports have appeared in Belgium, Germany, Sicily, Austria, Libya and Portugal. Surprisingly, the American news service was silent about those events. For example, postman Jozef Brem of Kiocling in Germany, reported having seen a strange object in sky. Brem described it as a yellow silver disc, similar to an inverted plate and surrounded by a light ring. The object was visible for more than a minute, and then flew southwest.

A few dozen Brussels shopping center workers flooded the police station, telling they saw a flying saucer over their market.

The Coast Guard team on the Portuguese coast has noticed a dozen strange objects flying "faster than gunfire".

All the inhabitants of Sicilian island (Italy) saw a disc-shaped object flying over the village Caltagirone. Flying machine made several arcs around the area, then disappeared in the southeast.

Two policemen from Vienna reported UFO moving towards the Czech border. The policemen saw the object about half a minute.

It was hard for the Europeans to believe their eyes. Every morning in the newspapers, they read about new and new flying objects from Spain to the Soviet Union. During this period, most of the UFO's were reported in Denmark and Italy. More and more scientists have come up with the idea that UFO's are US or Russian flying machines. Others agreed with the American "expert" theories that it was just ionized clouds, mirages, meteorites, or mass hysteria. Many European scholars supported the theory of extraterrestrial life. Everyone had own opinion and "theory" of flying saucers. Of course, some went too far saying that they were "keepers of the sky" or even found a biblical explanation "And then there will be signs in sky". In France, 20 UFO's reports per day were recorded for three consecutive days.

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1950 article included an illustration of Rudolf Schriever's alleged disc design

In January 1952, an American meteorite expert, reported on green fire balls, which were probably not meteorites, but rocket missiles operated by the Soviet Union. The story was published in the "Look" magazine and argued that the UFO's are "human handmade, probably made by the Soviets". Then a professor of Prague University came with the statement that he himself had created a disk-shaped flying machine before the Word War II. Professor Rudolf Schriever said that his work drawings were stolen, and when he gave the duplicates to the University of Prague, they managed somehow to get into Soviet Union hands.

At the beginning of 1954, a Swedish pilot noticed a strange metal disk flying in supersonic speed in southern Sweden near Russian rocket bases. A few days later, the Moscow Radio announced that Russia was not associated with the UFO. Flying saucers were called "propaganda aimed at provoking neighboring states."

In March 26, 1954, a report on the UFO was received at the NATO Air Base in Germany. The F-86 supersonic aircraft tried to catch the object, but they did not succeed. Air forces did not give any conclusions.

In April 28, 1948, in a secret US Department of Defense document, written: "Sometimes, objects in a saucer (plate) form are noticeable at high speeds and changing direction. This suggests that they are controlled by thoughtful creatures or controlled by radio waves. The speed of these devices exceeds the known standards. The apparatus flies without any sound. By calculating their size using special instruments, we can say that the diameter of the disc reaches from 25 to 40 meters". If this document was based on facts, then an official statement issued after a month by the air force, that there are no flying objects and it can be considered as a trick.

Whichever side you support, you should admit that so many testimonies of witnesses can not be considered to be full falsity. Thousands of people around the world say they have seen the UFO with their eyes and do not accept the explanation that it is reflections in the sky or incorrect interpretation of the usual objects. More recently, the US Air Force has announced that 20 percent of American reports of UFO's can not be explained. But what about many thousands of Europeans who also saw unexplained phenomena in the sky? How many percent are unexplained and who will examine them? Maybe what's now considered by ufologists the greatest secret ever, one day gonna be investigated? Maybe not?..
 
I am just reading a book by Margaret Fry, well publicized UFO researcher from UK. She lived in south England and she had personally seen 50-60 of UFOs in Surrey, Essex, Kent and Wiltshire. Many of sightings were even in London, which was a big surprise to me since I thought UFOs avoid towns and cities. The reason why she had seen so many UFOs because she was an active researcher who appeared frequently in news and on TV, so people called whenever they've seen something like that.

Sadly, last big UFO flap occurred back in 1978 and since than practically there are no UFO sighting reports.
 
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I am just reading a book by Margaret Fry, well publicized UFO researcher from UK. She lived in south England and she had personally seen 50-60 of UFOs in Surrey, Essex, Kent and Wiltshire. Many of sightings were even in London, which was a big surprise to me since I thought UFOs avoid towns and cities. The reason why she had seen so many UFOs because she was an active researcher who appeared frequently in news and on TV, so people called whenever they've seen something like that.
Sadly, last big UFO flap occurred back in 1978 and since than practically there are no UFO sighting reports.
Wow...50-60 ufo's....my bullshit thermometer is going high. I know the case when self-proclaimed UFOlogists at the spare time are going to forests, looking for UFO landing spots. After first or second "expedition" they say have heard unearthly sounds.
 
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Wow...50-60 ufo's....my bullshit thermometer is going high.

Mrs. Fry's wasn't just an accidental bystander. She was an active UFO investigator who visited, on average, 50 UFO incident sites per year or approximately once per week. Her research spanned over 50 years, so math says that she visited 2,500 incident sites. There is a trend in UFO reports suggesting that they frequently return to the original site. It's difficult to put a number on it, but lets say that she had a modest 2% success rate, that would be 0.02 x 2,500 = 50. Mrs. Fry was going after them, that's why she had seen so many.

In many cases, after the interview with witness, the same witness would phone her up and tell her something like: "They are here again. Please come in quick". So if one wants to see UFO, it pays off to become UFO investigator.

It's very unlikely that she was hyping things up, because she was very serious about her research. Her reports are always very detailed, include names of witnesses and locations. She wrote two very good books and attended large number of radio, TV shows and gave lectures.
 
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Mrs. Fry's wasn't just an accidental bystander. She was an active UFO investigator who visited, on average, 50 UFO incident sites per year or approximately once per week. Her research spanned over 50 years, so math says that she visited 2,500 incident sites. There is a trend in UFO reports suggesting that they frequently return to the original site. It's difficult to put a number on it, but lets say that she had a modest 2% success rate, that would be 0.02 x 2,500 = 50. Mrs. Fry was going after them, that's why she had seen so many.
What kind of objects ( UFO ) did she see ? is there a list with detailed description of those 50 UFO ?
 
yes, there are 2 books written by Mrs. Fry available on Amazon. I read them both and they are both equally good. Kindle versions cost only few dollars.

UFO's in Europe have been reported since the middle of the last century.

European and worldwide UFO reports go back at least to middle ages. As well there are medieval UFO reports from Japan.
 
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yes, there are 2 books written by Mrs. Fry available on Amazon. I read them both and they are both equally good. Kindle versions cost only few dollars.
European and worldwide UFO reports go back at least to middle ages. As well there are medieval UFO reports from Japan.
I thought a list is on internet (separated). I'm not going to buy a book just for that. Could you print or take a photo that specific page with description of 50 UFO from her book ?
 
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I never said that she made a list, nor that she took photos of UFOs that she had personally seen. She started her research back from 1950s all the way till the recent times, so people didn't have mobile phones with cameras, ready to snap photos. So, she mentioned in various interviews that she had personally seen about 50 UFOs during that time. In her two books she described about 50 UFO incidents witnessed by other people. There are only two or three incidents of her own, one of them was a major one with 30 witnesses. Out of these 50 cases witnessed by people from south England, maybe 2-3 are a bit too 'imaginative', other 48 are much closer to the general trend.

Many people think that reports of unrecognized flying objects are received from the United States only. Some such messages are considered to be fairy-tales, others legist stories about aliens from a outer-space visiting us. UFO's in Europe have been reported since the middle of the last century.
.

I just realized, that's quite detailed description of many UFO situations. It seems that you quite know your UFOs?
 
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Could you print or take a photo that specific page with description of 50 UFO from her book ?

I would either need to read both books again, or watch all her interviews again. A bit too much work. She never described or listed 50 UFOs. She just mentioned that she had seen about 50 UFOs herself. She never made a list.

I did not mention, any UFO of mine in this topic.

I was referring to your first post at a beginning of the thread. I wanted to say you know a lots of good cases.
 
I would either need to read both books again, or watch all her interviews again. A bit too much work. She never described or listed 50 UFOs. She just mentioned that she had seen about 50 UFOs herself. She never made a list.
What evidence does she have to support her claims, that she saw 50 UFOs ?

I was referring to your first post at a beginning of the thread. I wanted to say you know a lots of good cases.
You mentioned "good cases". Like ?
 
What evidence does she have to support her claims, that she saw 50 UFOs ?

She said she had seen them, that's all the evidence. Kenerth Arnolsd, a businessman who first had reported seeing UFOs had no evidence, just his word. Foo fighters that were seen during WWII, that you mention in the first post, were mostly just reported by pilots, without any evidence.
 
She said she had seen them, that's all the evidence.
So these are just a stories without any compelling evidence and stories are good to tell friends at the campfire. This is definetely not enough to make the case. She never described or listed 50 UFOs. She just mentioned that she had seen about 50 UFOs herself, wrote a book and people call her UFO researcher.

I think, to make a good "UFO" story you don't need much, except imagination and ability to speak or write.

So my questions to you are :
1. What is ufologist ?
2. How to become UFO researcher ?
3. How do you separate which UFO story is BS and which is credible ?

Kenerth Arnolsd, a businessman who first had reported seeing UFOs had no evidence, just his word. Foo fighters that were seen during WWII, that you mention in the first post, were mostly just reported by pilots, without any evidence.
Yes it's true, they all just reports.
 
I think, to make a good "UFO" story you don't need much, except imagination and ability to speak or write.

Yeah, exactly as many criminal court cases, in which there is no physical evidence. Legal system spends millions of dollars and hours investigating stories told by witnesses with perishable memories and whose credentials were not established with scientific certainty. And indeed many innocent defendants spend years in prisons because of that.

Ufology is not a science, it's more like police investigation or journalism. One just does his best to collect most reliable data that are available.
 
Yeah, exactly as many criminal court cases, in which there is no physical evidence. Legal system spends millions of dollars and hours investigating stories told by witnesses with perishable memories and whose credentials were not established with scientific certainty. And indeed many innocent defendants spend years in prisons because of that.
Eyewitness testimony is not reliable. Psychologists talked and writed about reliability of eyewitness testimony since the beginning of 20th century. There is many things which goes along with checking eyewitness credibility. They can check past misdemeanors, ask job co-workers,/friends/family members, character description. Judge can send eyewitness to psychiatrist and in some cases with his permission can do a lie detector test. There are plenty things how to check if someone is reliable or not. And lets be honest. To make a case with no evidence at all, with just one eyewitness.... a serious crime must take place.

Ufology is not a science, it's more like police investigation or journalism. One just does his best to collect most reliable data that are available.
To get a job as a policeman you must apply (with IQ and medical examination tests), pass the selection, afterwards go to police-school/academy(pass an exams) and graduate . It's not a science field, but you must learn things which are required in this position. Job has strict rules/discipline with serious work methodology. Investigate and fill the report are just couple of many policemans everyday duties, but they at least learned how to do it correctly. I think it's even shameful to compare real responsible profession with self proclaimed grade/rank. To become ufologist, you don't need train, learn or graduate, you don't need scientific methodology,have work ethics,resposibility to community,pass exams or tests. You can call yourself Dr. Steven Green or Dr.Blue Alien, say/write what you want, usually the only "true judge" of your "work" is going to be man in the mirror. Forget about reliability...

Therefore i do not know what do you mean by saying "it's more like journalism", that is why ---->

i ask again :


1. What is ufologist ?
2. How to become UFO researcher ?
3. How do you separate which UFO story is BS and which is credible ?
 
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Eyewitness testimony is not reliable.

Whole legal system is based around eyewitness testimony. If legal system trusts eyewitnesses why shouldn't we trust UFO witnesses. It seems that you pick & choose arguments as occasion requires. It seems that you are saying witnesses are bad for UFOs, but are OK for criminal investigations. It can't be both ways. If witnesses are good for one, they must be goof for the other.

I think it's even shameful to compare real responsible profession with self proclaimed grade/rank.

Why would be shameful? If one is taking his subject seriously there is no reason to make any difference. For example both Leonardo Da Vinci and Charles Darwin were self-thought scientists, and Mozart was self-tought musician. Nobody would reject theory of evolution because Darwin was amateur scientist.

UFO investigators are usually certified by the UFO research organization to which they belong. For example an official MUFON's investigator must pass several exams. If you are interested what is involved search MUFON's site.
 
Whole legal system is based around eyewitness testimony. If legal system trusts eyewitnesses why shouldn't we trust UFO witnesses. It seems that you pick & choose arguments as occasion requires. It seems that you are saying witnesses are bad for UFOs, but are OK for criminal investigations. It can't be both ways. If witnesses are good for one, they must be goof for the other.
I already explained how is dealt with witnesses accounts in court, it's not the same approach. I don't wanna repeat the same arguments over and over again.

Nobody would reject theory of evolution because Darwin was amateur scientist.
I'm not sure what are you trying to say.

UFO investigators are usually certified by the UFO research organization to which they belong. For example an official MUFON's investigator must pass several exams. If you are interested what is involved search MUFON's site.
There was a time when they actually investigated nowadays MUFON is just a marketing tool in big ufology market. Yes, you can become MUFON's investigator just by buying their merchandise MUFON - Recent UFO Sightings | Daily Alien News & Encounters . Where can i check all graduates ? is there any statistics how many pass exams or fail and what are the studies credits ?
And what about report details ?

P.S
We can have normal discussion, but i don't even know what is your opinion. Why do you keep avoiding these questions ?

1. What is ufologist ?
2. How to become UFO researcher ?
3. How do you separate which UFO story is BS and which is credible ?
 
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I already explained how is dealt with witnesses accounts in court
Sorry, I skipped over that. UFO witnesses are examined in a the same way as in the criminal court cases. UFO investigator will contact everybody in the area and place of work and try assure that witness is of a good character. That part would than go into UFO report.

I'm not sure what are you trying to say.
Charles Darwin didn't have a formal position as a scientist. He was an amateur. You said that policeman are of higher standing than UFO researchers, although both have to pass exam and adhere to professional standards. In US policemen are legally allowed to lie in court of low to assure conviction. Internet is full of videos where police kills black people who are completely innocent.

Current director of MUFON was an IBM executive and nuclear physicist by education. Stanton Freedman was nuclear physicist with top secret government clearances who worked on major nuclear projects for military. Prof. Dr. Alan Hynek was astronomer and he became the first ufologist. Same goes for french astronomer Jaque Vale. Dr. Mark Rodeigher is astrophysicist. Peter Sturrock is professor of physics on Stanford (if I remember correctly). There are lots of scientist studying UFOs. These guys are no fools.

Why do you keep avoiding these questions ?
:rolleyes: Why should work for you? :rolleyes: You can easily answer to these questions by googling about.
 
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UFO investigator will contact everybody in the area and place of work and try assure that witness is of a good character. That part would than go into UFO report.
There are no such as statistics to proove or certain strict work methodology which everyone must pursue. How do you know if they are doing that ?

Charles Darwin didn't have a formal position as a scientist. He was an amateur.
Charles Darwin used scientific methodology, that's the most important thing why did his work succeeded and now is completed and called evoliution theory/fact.

You said that policeman are of higher standing than UFO researchers, although both have to pass exam and adhere to professional standards.
You don't need to pass any exams to become selfproclaimed ufologist. Stop demagogy.

In US policemen are legally allowed to lie in court of low to assure conviction.
It what cases they are legally allowed to lie ?

Internet is full of videos where police kills black people who are completely innocent.
What are you trying to say ?

Current director of MUFON was an IBM executive and nuclear physicist by education. Stanton Freedman was nuclear physicist with top secret government clearances who worked on major nuclear projects for military. Prof. Dr. Alan Hynek was astronomer and he became the first ufologist. Same goes for french astronomer Jaque Vale. Dr. Mark Rodeigher is astrophysicist. Peter Sturrock is professor of physics on Stanford (if I remember correctly). There are lots of scientist studying UFOs. These guys are no fools.
Just because you have a degree in nuclear physics, does not make you good in other field : biology, astronomy or psychology or whatever. I know myself couple people who are educated and call themselfes ufologists. Does it make whole ufo field credible ?

:rolleyes: Why should work for you? :rolleyes: You can easily answer to these questions by googling about.
I'm asking your opinion not the google's. We are discussing about that already explained about this and you not. Are you affraid to answer ?

1. What is ufologist ?
2. How to become UFO researcher ?
3. How do you separate which UFO story is BS and which is credible ?
 
I love researching UFOs but I can invest my time better than hand-holding rookies. Time taken to show you this or that is time taken away from me discovering some new info.

There are no such as statistics to proove or certain strict work methodology which everyone must pursue. How do you know if they are doing that ?

:) >>> Google. You are just uninformed.

Charles Darwin used scientific methodology, that's the most important thing why did his work succeeded and now is completed and called evoliution theory/fact.

:rolleyes: I gave you above list of scientist who are researching UFOs using scientific method. But that's just a tip of iceberg. If you want more, all you need is to click on a link in my forum signature.

You don't need to pass any exams to become self-proclaimed ufologist. Stop demagogy.

???? MUFON's investigators pass exams. + ???? I gave you the list of scientists who used scientific methodology + ???? I just gave you additional scientific material in my forum signature.

You are just picking and choosing whatever will protect your worldview. You say witnesses are acceptable in legal cases, but unacceptable in UFO cases. I explained that UFO investigators do due diligence on witnesses, same as lawyers. But you refused to hear that, because you just want to win argument, instead spending time to learn more. You are just defending a psychobabble, instead of making an honest effort to do an impartial research.

You need to turn psychobabble off and start doing hard part of research work. That's how you'll gratify your curiosity.

Finding cases in which researchers said that they did due diligence would take few days of work. Researchers mostly mention that in side-notes, because readers are not really interested in that. And sometimes researchers dig up hidden dirt on some witnesses, but not all. There are about 200,000 cases on various databases around the world.

What are you trying to say ?

Policeman are not holy grail of truth and upstanding decency. They are just people, like rest of us. Their views can be heavily biased if their carrier is threatened.

It what cases they are legally allowed to lie ?

In all cases. Anglosaxon legal system is based on competition between plaintiffs and defendants. Bot sides can use any method to win the case, including lies, but if lie gets proven only defendant gets punished, plaintiffs can lie as much as they like, because they represent the state. Realistically speaking, one can't blame state for lying, unless you have really deep pockets.

Just because you have a degree in nuclear physics, does not make you good in other field : biology, astronomy or psychology or whatever. I know myself couple people who are educated and call themselfes ufologists. Does it make whole ufo field credible ?

Again you are picking and choosing assertions to suit your prejudice. If somebody is nuclear physicist or astronomer etc., one can say that one can trust their judgement and indeed, trust their integrity. They don't need to know everything about everything. In a fact such person doesn't even exist.

1. What is ufologist ?
2. How to become UFO researcher ?
3. How do you separate which UFO story is BS and which is credible ?

1. Ufologist is somebody who is researching UFO cases. Does that even need explanation???
2. Maybe by just starting researching some UFO cases???
3. By having additional confirmations, like photos, videos, multiple witnesses, physical traces, radar traces etc.

You sound more and more like somebody who already formed an opinion, so you are proactively ignoring anything that would unbalance it. So, typically human :)

By the way, did you by any chance had seen UFO yourself?
 
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