Two Metallic Craft Visit a Northern Ontario Ice Rink Pt. 2

[Jeff Davis]

This is an interesting option and handily places all our folklore into a neat and tidy complementary position. I wonder whether or not this is just another example of our status as an 'incomplete' being hence our desire for partnerships, bonding with others, desiring a god, a Djinn sex being, an earth mother, an old testament dad, etc., someone to be with us, near us, invisible but present, someone to watch over us. I don't buy the Andreason story after looking more closely into it. Increasingly my position, sadly, has shifted towards a skeptical position, especially with regards to contactee cases. I'm also thinking that until better 'proof' shows up I'm moving further and further away from the ETH. I'm thinking a lot more about how our perceptions and experiences of consciousness can be manipulated.

The joke was clear as I always like a bit of self-deprecation here and there, and enjoyed your sardonic approach. That's a tone often missing around here.


That's quite good. It is a very fragmentary phenomenon. There is always a sense of incompletion to the events. Sometimes the beginning or ending is missing, or time goes missing. It is never in one place long enough to get a full narrative. Maybe one day those exotic remnants will bubble to the surface and we will maybe see things entirely differently after that. That was another excellent encapsulation of the phenomenon for me. Thanks.

Ufology = Folklore IMO. Foxfire in the sky. Someday, as in the case with the glowing fungi and whatnot, we will understand how our environment interacts with our perceptions and serves to shape what we experience as unique sentient biological creatures. I think far more importantly to humanity is that we ourselves will eventually become the true manipulators.

By our very definition we are incomplete. In and of one there could be no more. IMO, we are sentient reflective cells in the mind of a universal consciousness. Individually we have experience. Unified we have our universal existence of which we are just a small part. For this reason alone we can access much more than we ourselves can experience in terms of completeness. When we see or experience UFOs we may be experiencing a portion of ourselves for which we have only an open doorway that bears no entrance, only spectacle.

Is this needful beckoning that we experience really any different than a baby's hunger? Perhaps UFOs serve to remind us of the fact that the human condition is one not just sustained by tangible edification.

Yes, Andreasson and many others make for great entertainment, and little more. When you're at the point I was at roughly 20-30 years ago, you just devour everything you can get your hands on. Then you realize out of the blue, "what am I doing?" You realize that in all reality what you have been doing is transposing your hungry ignorance into a satiated belief system using completely unverified, yet highly engaging (entertaining) information. So the truth of folklore does in fact become entirely subjective as we cull the information that best aligns itself with what we have adopted instinctively. (self programming based on previous programming that we instinctively follow up)

 

[Burnt State]

As a coda i wanted to just link this specific, infamous image to my sighting as it's the one photo of all the many UFO photographs that comes closest to matching what i saw in terms of a ring of coloured lights around the edge of the craft. This photo comes from Waterbury Connecticut, 1987:

Connecticut, 1987. Randy Etting was taking a walk outside his home. A commercial airline pilot with over 30 years experience, he always looked at the sky. On the night he took the photograph, he saw a number of orange and red lights approaching from the west. He got his binoculars and called his neighbors to come outside. The object, by this time was a great deal closer and seemed to be over I-84, just east of Etting's home... the lights were shimmering like distortion from engine heat, but he could hear no sound. Etting stated: "As the UFO passed over I-84, cars in both the east and west bound lanes began pulling over and stopping. The UFO displayed a semi-circular pattern of very bright multicolored lights. Five motorists reported that, as the object became visible, a number of cars lost power and had to pull off the highway."
- See more at:Ten Best UFO Photos ever Taken, Alien ET Craft, UFO Pictures | <b><i><a href="http://www.educatinghumanity.com">Educating Humanity</a></i></b>

 

[Constance]

Burnt, I continue to marvel at the radical doubt you are able to sustain after the ufo experience you had and described in detail for us here. Not just the appearance of the two ufos you saw just above you in the sky but the sizeable physical traces left by the nearest one on the roof of the garage (still visible the following summer) and on the adjacent tree are impressive evidence that you saw what you thought you saw. So, I think, is the departure of the nearest ufo directly over the power lines and then the immense speed with which both objects moved off and disappeared high in the distance.

 

[Constance]

As a coda i wanted to just link this specific, infamous image to my sighting as it's the one photo of all the many UFO photographs that comes closest to matching what i saw in terms of a ring of coloured lights around the edge of the craft. This photo comes from Waterbury Connecticut, 1987:

Connecticut, 1987. Randy Etting was taking a walk outside his home. A commercial airline pilot with over 30 years experience, he always looked at the sky. On the night he took the photograph, he saw a number of orange and red lights approaching from the west. He got his binoculars and called his neighbors to come outside. The object, by this time was a great deal closer and seemed to be over I-84, just east of Etting's home... the lights were shimmering like distortion from engine heat, but he could hear no sound. Etting stated: "As the UFO passed over I-84, cars in both the east and west bound lanes began pulling over and stopping. The UFO displayed a semi-circular pattern of very bright multicolored lights. Five motorists reported that, as the object became visible, a number of cars lost power and had to pull off the highway."
- See more at:Ten Best UFO Photos ever Taken, Alien ET Craft, UFO Pictures | <b><i><a href="http://www.educatinghumanity.com">Educating Humanity</a></i></b>

This event was likely connected to the year-long Hudson Valley ufo wave described in the Hynek, Imbrogno book whose title I'm forgetting at the moment. (will link)
The Hudson Valley sightings, causing numerous events in which cars pulled off the road to observe what was in the air, and reported in detail by numerous professionals of various types commuting home from their jobs in NYC, took place in approximately the same time period of the Belgian Triangle wave, which also extended over at least a one-year period. The official response and reporting to the public during the Belgian wave was the exact opposite of what happened during the Hudson Valley wave, which was ignored by the national media and reported only locally. Anyone who doubts the suppression and coverup of the ufo phenomenon by the US government's national security agencies must not have researched these two major waves.

 

[Constance]

Constance,
Don't let me fool you. If I ever seem to be making sense, you're most likely misunderstanding me.

IMO, the only thing that I can truthfully ascertain as to being evident with respect to UFO observations and their possible "intent", is that they quite often afford the appearance of an independent volition. Many of their actions seem deliberate and set apart from actions that might be attributable to a natural hierarchy of random forceful motivations or interactions within the environment in which they are observed.

Have you read the many reports by military, commercial, and private pilots who have encountered ufos in the sky and the pilot sighting report catalogues produced by Richard Haines and Dominique Weinstein, and information available at the NARCAP site and similar sites reporting pilot encounters in other countries? If you do you will be in no doubt that ufos have demonstrated unquestionable 'intent' and unmistakably intelligent and high-tech behavior relative to earth aircraft, including the repeatedly demonstrated ability to shut down communications, weapons systems, and even navigation systems in the nearby terrestrial aircraft. I do not understand how anyone who has read all of that data can blow off the evident real-time engagement of anomalous craft demonstrably 'not ours' with our own flying machines, and postulate in its place a theory as abstract and (well, gotta say) fanciful as the one you offer in its place. Just saying. Don't take offense, please. I don't want to argue with you.

 

[Burnt State]

Burnt, I continue to marvel at the radical doubt you are able to sustain after the ufo experience you had and described in detail for us here. Not just the appearance of the two ufos you saw just above you in the sky but the sizeable physical traces left by the nearest one on the roof of the garage (still visible the following summer) and on the adjacent tree are impressive evidence that you saw what you thought you saw. So, I think, is the departure of the nearest ufo directly over the power lines and then the immense speed with which both objects moved off and disappeared high in the distance.

Hanging around this forum has increased my doubtfulness multifold. I think the Zetetic position regarding unique paranormality is a healthy position to take. There's too many hoaxers, egotists, cult leaders, contactees, peope using hypnosis on supposed abductees, confused witnesses and revisionist historians working on a fractured history for a fragmented audience.

Issues of proof and facts leave most of these discussions limited at best. I can say, "I know what I saw!" with the best of UFO witnesses, but who or what piloted those objects and their point of origin - totally unknown I think. UFO lore, parsing its history and puzzling out speculations are all wonderful addictions - really, I can't get enough, nor do I have the spare time to satisfactorily surrender to such strange passions & pursuits. As a seeker, I keep doubt up front, but keep filing away little concrete pieces of the mystery as I fumble forwards with my own collected fragments.

I'm still waiting for another big voice to step forward and shift the ufo paradigm, or flip it altogether, still waiting for better proof beyond dazzling stories, still waiting for a good true sound or image - still or otherwise.

p.s. I also despise skeptics who dismiss just for the sake of being boring and confidently banal about reality's endless possibilities. But the other skeptics, faithful to critical thinking keep believers and seekers honest. It's a little hard tell the difference sometimes between healthy skepticism and Zeteticism.

 

[Bob Watson]

If you answered this that is cool but lets be 100% honest what do you believe you saw? In my UFO I have always held what I saw was a top secret air force craft.

 

[Burnt State]

Somewhere in the threads I've said I have no idea of what it was I saw - looked like an alien craft to me coming out to see what the locals get up to for fun when it's sub zero temperatures. But I can't prove anything - just a story really. But wow, they were something to see.

 

[SRL+]

What is the distance from the rink to the “sitters" house, approx. 200 ft?

This may sound a little weird, do you know your old address, as in an address at or near that location which may be looked up on Google Earth?

 

[Burnt State]

What is the distance from the rink to the “sitters" house, approx. 200 ft?

This may sound a little weird, do you know your old address, as in an address at or near that location which may be looked up on Google Earth?

I would guesstimate that 150'-200' is the distance from the edge of the rink to their back door.

The centre of the ice rink is at Lat 46.5128991 and Long -84.2822357 decimal degrees. You can plug that in to google maps and see the sitter's house at 79 Indiana Drive. I'm just around the corner on Illinois Avenue. I'd post a pic of the map but the device i'm using right now is limited. Maybe later I'll do that and complete the details.

 

[SRL+]

Then, in suggesting that the distance from the baby sitter’s house to the ice skating rink was 175’ feet would sound reasonable. BTW, nice area.

You wrote that there was a large light on a shorter pole, (shorter than the surrounding utility poles), illumining the skating rink. By your description, this took place during the evening?

You have the saucer’s flight path positioned between the skating rink and the babysitter’s home. Is this correct? Is this when the people in the babysitter’s home noticed the saucer?

What ever happened to your friend B.W. after his uncle found out about the damage to his re-roofed home, along with singed and blackened treetop?

At the time, what ages would you guess B.W. and the babysitter’s daughter to have been?

This must have been quite an impressionable experience for you as a youngster, having gone to the trouble of drawing out the imagery, and for a nine year old your penmanship was very good.

 

[Burnt State]

Yes, completely an evening event - I think those details are captured in the part 1 description. The light illuminating the rink was on the far side, the south west corner of the rink. The flight pah of the one object that descended down towards us was still in the boundary of the field, but it was during this descent and hovering above us that people in the house started to respond to the craft. I would say that between the rink and the house is correct, literally along the boundary line of their yards. As it started cruising along the backyards of the houses I would say that it was closer towards the houses but still along the field line.

The babysitter's daughter was in high school. I remember her to be very antagonistic towards my friend who stayed at their place and myself, his best friend. I went over frequently. Two stories about her are vivid. Once she chased us around her brother's room with his switchblade - a real one. Another winter the family had built a snow cave in the backyard for kids to play in that had an actual door. I went inside, felt very claustrophobic and she refused to let me out. Ironically I build quiznzes for my kids every winter if enough snow falls.

I was really hoping to make contact with her this past winter, but then I found out that family moved from the house. I would have to complete some investigation to try to track them down at this point. B.W. was my age and in my class at the time. As stated previously, we were kids who never participated in the adult world. I never met his uncle and he reported nothing more about the roof to us. That early summer was consumed by B.W. resurrecting a mini-bike which he blew up while riding on it and broke his arm.

What I find interesting is how little I remember talking about that event in the years that followed. But for the original friend on the ice with me, as mentioned above, we spent that whole next summer on walkie talkies wandering the neighborhoods in the evening searching for ufo's. It certainly helped to consolidate a growing paranormal interest and is the primary reason for my return to paranormal investigation after many years away from it.

I fit that profile of the guy in his late 30's, early 40's who saw something as a kid that's come back to bother his brain. I have no particular obsession over my own case, but am still fascinated by the idea of the UFO sighing. Good reports and key cases still command my attention, but mostly my curiosity.

 

[SRL+]

Since your head was pointed in a downward position focusing on the hockey puck you were unable to see whether or not the saucer’s approach was from the southwest, south, or southeast, as they seemed to have descended directly down upon you. Is this correct?

When you wrote that the saucers hovered at an altitude of approx. two utility poles in height, were you referring to the utility poles in the image, (you provided), surrounding the perimeter of the field?

Recollecting from distant memory, how much shorter was the utility pole with the large light than the other surrounding utility poles?

Did you happen to notice anyone at the window of the babysitter’s house when you heard someone call out?

Since your sighting occurred during the evening, what provided the illumination for you to be able to discern whether or not the saucers appeared to be metallic?

 

[Burnt State]

Since your head was pointed in a downward position focusing on the hockey puck you were unable to see whether or not the saucer’s approach was from the southwest, south, or southeast, as they seemed to have descended directly down upon you. Is this correct?

I think i described that at the moment i looked up at the babysitter's face and looked in the direction that she was looking i saw two craft approaching from the NNE with one craft further behind and higher up in the air while the other one was moving towards us and descending. At least, from the point that i saw them that's how i saw it unfold. I did not see exactly where they came from in the sky at all, but watched them descend, cruise around the back and then depart, literally up into the stars in a NNW direction (following their moving around above the corner store area towards the highway).

When you wrote that the saucers hovered at an altitude of approx. two utility poles in height, were you referring to the utility poles in the image, (you provided), surrounding the perimeter of the field?

no i was referring to standard utility poles, not those short things in the field. i'll be honest as this memory is over thirty years old and things like scale i think are hard to capture. i just remember clearly these were discs, in a classic saucer shape with dome centre and lights all around the perimeter edge. but I'm using a standard utility pole as a measurement. Though in my memory, the ship looms large as it gets close to us, producing a lot of immobilizing fear. Though i was much smaller then, but i do feel that 1-1 and a half utility poles is an appropriate height for where it descended to. What i do remember, as a height measurement, is how it later distinctly hovered over the garage and the tree at the end of its cruise along the yard and it was pretty damn close to the tree. The tree was a fairly mature columlar poplar i think about 30 feet + high.

Recollecting from distant memory, how much shorter was the utility pole with the large light than the other surrounding utility poles?

hmmm…that's a little specific as I can't quite remember if the pole was just another one carrying power in the back of the field or a separate one. It would make sense if the light fixed on the pole was just another one of those shorter utility poles but i can't confirm that, but believe it to be the same size in height as the others.

Did you happen to notice anyone at the window of the babysitter’s house when you heard someone call out?

no, i was not even looking at the window - my eyes never left the two craft. i remember hearing the sounds of people, as the window was open and remember someone calling for binoculars.

Since your sighting occurred during the evening, what provided the illumination for you to be able to discern whether or not the saucers appeared to be metallic?

illumination came from the poll in the SW corner of the rink that illuminated the rink and the surrounding area quite well as the whole of the rink was illuminated from end to end and surrounding snow edges.

 

[SRL+]

Just a couple of thoughts:

The utility poles (2) viewed in the image, (Pt.2, and when magnified), appear to be approximately 22’ feet in height. However, you have suggested they are taller. The standard city utility pole averages at 40’feet in height with 6’feet buried underground, making the exposed height of 34’feet. Two of these utility poles atop one another would place the saucer(s) at an approximate altitude 68’feet with the leading edge of the saucer within a proximity of 65’feet, (probably less), from the window of the babysitter’s home. By your past recollection, the illumination was provided by the light on the pole accompanied by the surrounding reflection of ice and snow. In your sketch (Pt.1) you have sketched two individuals looking out of the babysitter’s, (opened?), window, calling out, “get the binoculars”, however you cannot actually recall seeing anyone, even though being able to easily see the back of the house from the rink. Then again, at that time you were transfixed on those other worldly crafts.

Why would anyone possibly have the need for binoculars in order to view an illuminated saucer of “easily 25’feet in diameter” when most anyone could have literally thrown a stone in striking the completely silent and hovering craft that is arguably less than a total of 133’feet away? Then again, why would anyone want to go and leave their window open in sub-freezing temperatures? Furthermore, several of the trees on east side of the field boundary running north would likely have been damaged if not destroyed as a result of the saucer(s) northerly proceeding. One could then possibly argue that the saucers were actually higher. If that were in fact the case, the individuals in the babysitter’s home would most likely have been unaware of the saucer’s presence due to the close proximity and angle of descent in relation to the babysitter’s home.

What are your thoughts on this?

 

[Burnt State]

Just a couple of thoughts:

The utility poles (2) viewed in the image, (Pt.2, and when magnified), appear to be approximately 22’ feet in height. However, you have suggested they are taller. The standard city utility pole averages at 40’feet in height with 6’feet buried underground, making the exposed height of 34’feet. Two of these utility poles atop one another would place the saucer(s) at an approximate altitude 68’feet with the leading edge of the saucer within a proximity of 65’feet, (probably less), from the window of the babysitter’s home. By your past recollection, the illumination was provided by the light on the pole accompanied by the surrounding reflection of ice and snow. In your sketch (Pt.1) you have sketched two individuals looking out of the babysitter’s, (opened?), window, calling out, “get the binoculars”, however you cannot actually recall seeing anyone, even though being able to easily see the back of the house from the rink. Then again, at that time you were transfixed on those other worldly crafts.

Why would anyone possibly have the need for binoculars in order to view an illuminated saucer of “easily 25’feet in diameter” when most anyone could have literally thrown a stone in striking the completely silent and hovering craft that is arguably less than a total of 133’feet away? Then again, why would anyone want to go and leave their window open in sub-freezing temperatures? Furthermore, several of the trees on east side of the field boundary running north would likely have been damaged if not destroyed as a result of the saucer(s) northerly proceeding. One could then possibly argue that the saucers were actually higher. If that were in fact the case, the individuals in the babysitter’s home would most likely have been unaware of the saucer’s presence due to the close proximity and angle of descent in relation to the babysitter’s home.

What are your thoughts on this?

My initial thoughts are on my inability to know the height of utility poles but you know i think that those heights are pretty accurate, placing the tree then closer to about 40 feet tall as I do remember that craft nearest to us cruising down even lower as it went along the back of the yards.

As far as order of events i think it would be wrong to assume that at the moment of nearest proximity to us that this is the same moment as someone called for binoculars. I do not have strong enough recollection to give you what happened when but just know those collection of details are true. If anything, I would think that it tells us that the moment that someone inside the house recognized there was something odd descending from the sky is the moment that someone asked for binoculars and that at that moment that request was audible to me on the ice. How far away it was at that point i can not say. Only those adults would know. I have no idea what it was that they saw.

I like the fact that you are picking apart the details, as I've not really given it that kind of 3rd party consideration at all. However in a house that may have a would stove running, and people are smoking, it may have been common to have a window open to let in air? It happened a lot in the houses we hung out in as kids, but i'm not sure in this case as i was not in the house at the time. What i do know is that i could clearly hear people from inside the house make that exclamation along with excited chatter following that. Whether the window was open, (my assumption as i thought it was open so that they could yell out to us or something) or the screen door was just opening when my friend was going inside the house and that was the moment that someone noticed the first craft and called for binoculars, i could not tell you. I would assume that they also had a pretty profound view of the craft in the way that the two of us did on the ice. I can't see how they would miss it. I do remember that in their backyard there was a tree growing in the centre of the yard, but it wasn't much taller than their own garage. I would think that with an upward angle from their backdoor, anything 65-80 feet up in the air would be easily visible, along with much higher heights.

Personally, I couldn't believe that there was nothing about it in the paper the next day or the day after that. I remember looking through the newspapers daily following the event to get confirmation of what i thought was a really big deal - these well seen, and yes, very large objects. I remember freaking out on my dad - why had he not seen it when it was above the corner store where he had just come how from when i burst in the door to tell my tale to their incredulous smiles. "How could you not see it, Dad!? They were big and hung above the corner store?!"

For what it's worth i would think that satellite photos of that current area would have nothing much to do with trees that were there three decades ago. But I don't see that as an issue regardless. As far as tree limb wrecking, and i know that this detail shows up a lot in UFO cases, i have to say, watching the one craft move along the back yards it was well above the treeline and seeing it hover above the garage and near the height of that tree (i would call that it's lowest point in the entire observation) they seemed to have a very strong sense of their location in midair. There was never a sense that they were going to hit anything. These were smooth and deftly moving craft, no wobble or weirdness to the motion as has been seen in some videos. It was all calculated easy motion, no sound, or roars, totally quiet, intentional manoeuvres in the air. Why would they crash into trees when they could move so delicately in and around them? These craft had the ability to hover, move slow, accelerate, and then zip off at tremendous speeds with what seemed to me as no effort (sound or change in motion) whatsoever.

 

[SRL+]

I find it rather odd, that with all the commotion no one would leave the dwelling in order to view these crafts. Perhaps, the chatter was from when your friend had opened the door, in letting the warm air escape.

By your recollection, at the time you heard the call for binoculars, the saucer(s) were directly overhead, so it must have been extremely close to the babysitter’s home.

Another aspect here is the fact that you seemed to have been predisposed at the time, in the anticipation of experiencing a saucer sighting.

Also, there seems to be contradictions within the manner in which your sketch depicts the experience.

In some ways you are extremely accurate, and in other ways vague. I suggest you go back and check your distances very carefully, because from the looks of your narrative, at this point in time it doesn’t seem add up, but how many actually do?

Outside of this narrative there may reside a few other possibilities of an entirely different nature, which you are obviously unaware of.

At a later date, and if you would like, perhaps we can plumb the depths of your experience a little bit further.

 

[Burnt State]

I'm good with plumbing further.

No one came outside, at least not that I recall. I would say that aside from the excited voices I remember only their flight path; that's all I focussed on, and that after they left, the excitement inside saw me running home immediately to exclaim what I had just seen. I had no interaction with the sitter, the people inside or even my friend until the next day.

By my recollection, there was a call or binoculars that was at the front end of the sighting. I couldn't say if they were directly overhead or not at that specific momnt. But what's stuck in my mind is that there was a call for binoculars. The sighting starts with one much higher up at the far end of the field and the other one coming towards us while the second stayed back.

Could they be further up than 2 utility poles at the moment they called for them as it descended - possibly. As I said the low point of elevation is moving along the houses' backyards and pausing at the last house over that tree.

As stated previously I would not use the sketch for any actual diagram of physical events or locations at all. That's just a representation of the narrative. I would have needed another sheet of paper to get a more realistic scale of the distance between the two objects, plus I can't draw worth shit.

I completely agree; I was entirely predisposed to see one. The paranormal was my reading selection of choice after The Hardy Boys at that time. I became much more focussed on The UFO Experience following this sighting. After that we saw one or two interesting lights in the sky the following summer, but nothing like these two saucers.

I did go back recently this past winter to shoot the area in winter. That's where I came up with the height estimate. Could I be wrong about the scale and size of ships? That's certainly a possibility; everything you see when young seems so much bigger than when you return to visit. But I did estimate the diameter based on what I remember to be the size of the roof that was affected and guesstimated that when looking at the roof this past winter. Again, that roof looked way bigger when climbing up my buddy's ladder looking at it from the second story of that house.

I'm totally open to other possibilities, though their flight path that followed has always been the otherworldly part for me. But I have enough doubt for other avenues - please provide.

 

[Constance]

I find it rather odd, that with all the commotion no one would leave the dwelling in order to view these crafts. Perhaps, the chatter was from when your friend had opened the door, in letting the warm air escape.

In either case, Burnt heard the voices and the reference to binoculars, and this is not surprising since voices carry clearly in cold weather over snow-covered ground, especially at twilight in the north when there is less traffic in the streets. Burnt, having had his eyes fixed on the closest craft, could not know whether anyone inside that house stepped across the threshhold far enough to see the closest craft and/or the one farther off from the ice rink. But I don't see what difference it makes whether anyone inside that house walked out into the yard since what Burnt was seeing could be seen from either an open window or an open doorway. The important point is that others evidently saw what Burnt saw, from the perspective of the rink itself and also from the house several hundred feet away.

Another aspect here is the fact that you seemed to have been predisposed at the time, in the anticipation of experiencing a saucer sighting.

I didn't get that impression in earlier reading of Burnt's posts about this event. Even if he was 'predisposed' to see a ufo (whatever that means), was the babysitter also 'predisposed' and also Burnt's friend playing hockey with him on the ice rink?

I can't speak to your other comments here since they're not specific enough. I especially wonder what you have in mind in the one I've highlighted in blue:

Also, there seems to be contradictions within the manner in which your sketch depicts the experience.

In some ways you are extremely accurate, and in other ways vague. I suggest you go back and check your distances very carefully, because from the looks of your narrative, at this point in time it doesn’t seem add up, but how many actually do?

Outside of this narrative there may reside a few other possibilities of an entirely different nature, which you are obviously unaware of.

At a later date, and if you would like, perhaps we can plumb the depths of your experience a little bit further.

 

[SRL+]

“In either case, Burnt heard the voices and the reference to binoculars, and this is not surprising since voices carry clearly in cold weather over snow-covered ground, especially at twilight”

“Twilight”, where did you get this?

“I didn't get that impression in earlier reading of Burnt's posts about this event. Even if he was 'predisposed' to see a ufo (whatever that means), was the babysitter also 'predisposed' and also Burnt's friend playing hockey with him on the ice rink?”

Predispose - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

“Predisposed” You must surely have missed this:

Two Metallic Craft Visit a Northern Ontario Ice Rink Pt. 1

Or this quote from Burnt State:

“I completely agree; I was entirely predisposed to see one.”

“The important point is that others evidently saw what Burnt saw, from the perspective of the rink itself and also from the house several hundred feet away.”

This is the grossest of exaggerations. If you had only read and had been able to comprehend what I had written you wouldn’t have written this.

Here.., read this below. Notice where it says “ 65’feet or less.”

“ Two of these utility poles atop one another would place the saucer(s) at an approximate altitude 68’feet with the leading edge of the saucer within a proximity of 65’feet, (probably less), from the window of the babysitter’s home.”

Constance, you have some homework to do.