The Socialism Experiment

[Bixyboo]

Just sharing an interesting email I received recently.
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Socialism - Good on Paper, Not in Reality...

An economics professor at Texas Tech said he had failed very few students but had, once, failed an entire class.

That class had insisted that socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.

The professor then said, "Ok, we will have an experiment in this class on socialism."

"All grades will be averaged and everyone would receive the same grade meaning, obviously, no one will receive an A."

They all agreed to this.

After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a C.

The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy.


But, as the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too, so they studied little.

The second test average was a D!

No one was happy.

When the 3rd test rolled around the average was an F.


The scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else.

To their great dismay, the professor failed them all.

Then he sent all of them this note:

"A socialistic government will also ultimately fail - because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed."

 

[CapnG]

Ludicrously narrow-minded and doubtless completely fictional.

 

[Drew UK]

Re: The Capitalism Experiment -

OK, got to balance this out a bit.


Take a set of students (Set A), and give them a task, a puzzle to solve and go away -

and leave them to it.

Take another set of students (Set B), and give them a task, a puzzle to solve, go away and tell them you will give them $75USD for there efforts.

Watch both sets of students behind a hidden screen -

Set A - will show more enthusiasm and interest in the task at hand.
Set B - knowing that there "earning" there work will start looking out the window, whistling, or reading the newspaper.


Whilst I am in agreement with the first argument, and it is well proven both in the experiment described and in our current modern society. Socialism -Those that build on the people.. you know the rest.

However, I also must stress - that rejecting Red you must by default accept Blue. Since Capitalism that is built on the premise that money is the universal motivator is also a flawed ideology - again reflected in the experiment and current modern society.

Both modes lead to irresponsibility.

Any solutions?

 

[TClaeys]

Both modes lead to irresponsibility.

Any solutions?

I agree. I don't know that I can offer any solutions, but just think of what we COULD do without the need for monetary rewards. What if we could research and develop without restriction?? What could we cure? Where could we travel?? Technology is always confined by budgets. Nevertheless, we have all the raw materials AND manpower to accomplish a hell of a lot more than we can now with capitalism and various ideologies.

 

[Schuyler]

Take another set of students (Set B), and give them a task, a puzzle to solve, go away and tell them you will give them $75USD for there efforts.

Watch both sets of students behind a hidden screen -

Set A - will show more enthusiasm and interest in the task at hand.
Set B - knowing that there "earning" there work will start looking out the window, whistling, or reading the newspaper.

Let's change the test just a bit.

Let's tell Set B their earning potential is unlimited and that they are considered entrenpeneurs. The amount of the money they make is governed by the quality and applicability of their work.

You've set up your Set B as employees on a set wage with no particular incentive.

I'm reminded of the old Soviet phrase, "We pretend to work and they pretend to pay us." Didn't work out so good for them.

 

[Kevin Daly]

Toss out -isms.
Most economies are and historically have been mixed: this is a pragmatic acknowledgment of the fact that people need incentives (and the exchange of wealth of whatever kind for goods and services is as old as our species), but also of the fact that the community stands together or falls.
Margaret Thatcher is said to have proclaimed that "Society doesn't exist": that sort of deranged and irresponsible attitude in itself should have disqualified her from public office.
The idea of greed as the only good that has been promoted for the last 3 decades is not anti-socialist so much as it is sociopathic.

Lastly, my final, carefully reasoned argument to all the deluded Ayn Rand disciples out there: I only wish I had a time machine so I could go back and convince your parents of the importance of effective contraception.

 

[Experiencer7]

Any social structure that fails to recognize the predatory nature of humans will fail. In any given situation the alpha will always assert itself.

 

[BrandonD]

Any social structure that fails to recognize the predatory nature of humans will fail. In any given situation the alpha will always assert itself.

You forgot part 2 of your maxim: Any social structure that encourages the predatory nature of humans will also fail.

Capitalism and Socialism are in the same boat.

 

[AnnetteMarie]

so change what we consider reward.

 

[Experiencer7]

Twixt angel and beast is man. The ___ism of your choice., I suppose.

 

[magican2009]

Excellent metaphor for the inherent flaw in socialism!
While free market capitalism is clearly not perfect, it rewards innovation, inspires people to excel and drives competition and improvement.
I'm reminded that the US Postal Service once stated that delivering a package overnight, consistently, was simply not possible. UPS, FedX and others, of course, would disagree.
Fairness of opportunitey is not the same thing as fairness of outcome, and here again, while capitalism is certainly not always fair, not a single government in world history has driven more innovation and an overal better standard of living that the US.
Great post!

 

[BrandonD]

Excellent metaphor for the inherent flaw in socialism!
While free market capitalism is clearly not perfect, it rewards innovation, inspires people to excel and drives competition and improvement.
I'm reminded that the US Postal Service once stated that delivering a package overnight, consistently, was simply not possible. UPS, FedX and others, of course, would disagree.
Fairness of opportunitey is not the same thing as fairness of outcome, and here again, while capitalism is certainly not always fair, not a single government in world history has driven more innovation and an overal better standard of living that the US.
Great post!

The wondrous success of capitalism is a mythology, and people in the west not only believe in this mythology, but worship it.

This wondrous social and economic model is one of the direct causes for the wondrous social and economic implosion on the horizon. From a psychological standpoint, capitalism rewards self-centered behavior, deceptiveness, and encourages the predatory side of human nature. Because of this, it is also one of the root causes of many of the twisted social ills infecting our society.

Despite what those who've been "educated" in this black-and-white society might believe, a person who makes the above statements is not necessarily a socialist.

Just as a person who acknowledges that the husband is beating the wife is not necessarily a "bra-burning feminist".

 

[truthseeker]

From a psychological standpoint, capitalism rewards self-centered behavior, deceptiveness, and encourages the predatory side of human nature."

This condition can be ascribed to any human being under any system, capitalist or socialist. Go try to live in a country where you have to stand long lines to get even the toilet paper. Everybody is ultimately interested in self-preservation and there is no perfect system. However, let's not ignore that the United States - the pinnacle of capitalism - also happens to be the most generous and giving country in the world. Speaking for myself and I'm sure you know a lot of people who are writing out checks to various charity organizations or doing volunteeing. I think it ultimately comes down to your moral upbringing and in my experience, people who have struggled and made it to the top generally give more and are always glad to extend a helping hand. I think capitalism when it's guided by rules and fairness is the best system and, contrary to what many of you think, brings out the best in people.

 

[CapnG]

I think capitalism when it's guided by rules and fairness is the best system and, contrary to what many of you think, brings out the best in people.

That's kinda the point though. Rules are required to ENFORCE fairness, otherwise capitalism rapidly devolves into economic cannibalism.

The example given is a joke however, it's based on some theoretical archetype of socialism, completely divorced from how socialism functions in reality. It's a pretty transparent piece of conservative (although perhaps more likely libertarian) propaganda, no doubt related to Obama's pushing for general health care reform.

I find it kind of ironic that the example is based in Texas, a state that a few weeks ago was clamouring for secession and now wants to get it's mitts on the biggest chunk of Fed bail-out money it can carry. I guess socialism's only bad until it saves your ass...

 

[truthseeker]

That's kinda the point though. Rules are required to ENFORCE fairness, otherwise capitalism rapidly devolves into economic cannibalism.

The example given is a joke however, it's based on some theoretical archetype of socialism, completely divorced from how socialism functions in reality. It's a pretty transparent piece of conservative (although perhaps more likely libertarian) propaganda, no doubt related to Obama's pushing for general health care reform.

I find it kind of ironic that the example is based in Texas, a state that a few weeks ago was clamouring for secession and now wants to get it's mitts on the biggest chunk of Fed bail-out money it can carry. I guess socialism's only bad until it saves your ass...

Well yes, who said that rules or laws are not required. Any economic system needs to enforce them, otherwise you have anarchy.

What exactly is your idea of a socialist system?

 

[CapnG]

What exactly is your idea of a socialist system?

Ah... now that really is the heart of the matter, isn't it? I live in Canada, a country many hard-right Americans consider "socialist". Same with most of Europe. Personally, I would consider most South American governments to be socialist but I've no doubt South Americans would point a finger elsewhere (possibly at Cuba) as to who the real socialists are. It's as much about perception as it is about politics.

 

[BrandonD]

This condition can be ascribed to any human being under any system, capitalist or socialist. Go try to live in a country where you have to stand long lines to get even the toilet paper. Everybody is ultimately interested in self-preservation and there is no perfect system. However, let's not ignore that the United States - the pinnacle of capitalism - also happens to be the most generous and giving country in the world. Speaking for myself and I'm sure you know a lot of people who are writing out checks to various charity organizations or doing volunteeing. I think it ultimately comes down to your moral upbringing and in my experience, people who have struggled and made it to the top generally give more and are always glad to extend a helping hand. I think capitalism when it's guided by rules and fairness is the best system and, contrary to what many of you think, brings out the best in people.

This post is almost completely false, top to bottom. Unfortunately this is a subject that americans are WAYYY to indoctrinated to ever look at rationally, so we'll just agree to disagree.

 

[Poi]

so change what we consider reward.

Sometimes the shortest statements make the biggest impact. Bottom lines are noteworthy.

Thanks, AnnetteMarie.

 

[Shugi]

. However, let's not ignore that the United States - the pinnacle of capitalism - also happens to be the most generous and giving country in the world. Speaking for myself and I'm sure you know a lot of people who are writing out checks to various charity organizations or doing volunteeing.

Sorry, i don't think thats true anymore, although it probably was in the 50s and 60s, and maybe even during the whole Cold War, but there imho also due to strategic interests. The actual numbers per capita seem to look more like this:

Most Generous Countries

 

[More Danny Byrd]

The context isn't clear. Is that simply foreign aid or does it include all charity?