The Roswell Slides Have Been Leaked Online

[SRL+]

In a roundabout fashion, I’m attempting to point this out. Thank you.

 

[Stagger Lee]

If the images are recently created hoax, perhaps the museum look would be a good exit set up? People may move on instead of digging further had the placard said "ET crashed disk"
I am only repeating my take on what George has posted in this thread. Personally, I don't know what to think as far as hoax vs mummy image.

 

[Creepy Green Light]

People will believe what they want. It's just the way it is. No matter how much proof or evidence you have, it won't matter.

Ray Santilli's "alien autopsy" - as an 18 year old in the Navy - I thought it looked ridiculous. Didn't believe it for even a minute. I wouldn't believe it even if I didn't watch it. Why? Be cause if it was valid, do you think all the powers of the U.S. Government would just let it be broadcast on TV? On FOX? In the same time slot as The Simpsons? Not a snowballs chance in hell.

But here's the crap that fuels the fire. A guy like Stan Winston (Hollywood special effects guru) says something like "I've looked at the video. If it is a fraud, I have no idea how they created it. Even my team of people couldn't pull that off."

And then you have Bill Birnes and his crew of crack investigators. He's watching the Morristown "UFO" video on a flatscreen at the people's house who filmed it and they pause the video. Bill points at the screen and says "look right there! You can almost make out a triangle craft between the points of red light!" No Bill. It's three balloons with flares attached. But how are you seeing a triangle craft??? How many other times are witnesses wrong just like th above examples? Eyewitness testimony is garbage. It's scary to think how many people are in prison or have been put to death over this overhyped, over relied on "testimony".

I think of these examples and others like it and it makes me not believe 99% of people's stories or sightings. And my examples above were FIRST HAND witnesses! Can you imagine how garbaged up reports, sightings, quotes are by the time it's 2nd, 3rd, 4th hand versions? Yikes.

 

[Constance]

"'Good hoaxers' do not harm the field." {??}

I suppose that depends on whether you think the 'field' should be explored or marginalized unto extinction.

 

[Constance]

I think of these examples and others like it and it makes me not believe 99% of people's stories or sightings.

Just out of curiosity, Creepy Green, do you misconstrue the reality of 99% of what you see and experience in the world?

 

[George Wingfield]

The proverb is beware of Greeks baring gifts, it is taken from one of my favourite stories, and it shames me to admit that I forgot, the basic principle.

The Roswell slides are the horse, and Trojans are the sceptics and the believers, the Greeks are the hoaxers counting their spoils of war.

The horse was wheeled in by all of us collectively, we all argued amongst ourselves, as they picked our pockets.

Hats off to the weasels, they did a good job, I have to admit that.
But it does leave a sour taste, and I am sure that potential interest and investigation in to the "paranormal" has been lost due to their antics.

***************************************************************************************

Harry, Your analogy of the Trojan horse is entirely appropriate although in this case the “Roswell Slides” appear to have been purchased by Jaime Maussan (or possibly by his surrogate, Adam Dew) from Lundberg International, Inc., rather than just dropped off for the delight of Roswell Alien believers as a joke.

(I should point out that it was the Greeks who left the Trojan Horse --in which were concealed a number of Greek soldiers-- outside the city gates of Troy. The Greek fleet appeared to have sailed away ostensibly leaving the embattled Trojans in peace. Unfortunately these dumb Trojans hauled the huge wooden horse inside the city and later on, in the dead of night, the Greek soldiers climbed out and went to open the city gates for their comrades who had by then returned. The Greek forces poured into the city totally sacking it and thus bringing the lengthy Trojan War to an end)

Well, OK, many of us were indeed fascinated by the Roswell Slides Horse ----wherever that had popped up from. Luckily there were quite a few skeptics here in Paracast City who immediately suspected this alluring Greek gift that had been deposited outside our city gates somewhere out on the internet. Only puzzle was that its provenance did not seem immediately obvious.

Well, I hope that I’ve convinced some of you that this was indeed the work of Lundberg & Co. (a.k.a. circlemakers.org). John (“Ostension”) said on this forum that he doesn’t like to discuss his work so it’s unlikely there will ever be confirmation that he was the author of the slides.

Besides John there seems to have been someone else doing a bit of fakery with the Roswell Slide images ever since the collapse of any belief in their authenticity at Maussan’s extravaganza in Mexico City on May 5. Evidently I didn’t make myself very clear about this in my posting here yesterday.

If you suddenly realize that you’ve made a fool of yourself by proclaiming it was an alien body and you no longer buy into that idea and want people to think it’s something else (say, a mummified two year old child), you merely have to put out a new message on that highly suspicious placard. Here’s what you do:-

(1) Download that image of the corpse with the blurred placard beside it.

(2) Use PhotoShop to blank out the existing blur on the placard and then write your own message taking great care to use some ordinary font that was around in 1947.

(3) Use PhotoShop and/or some deblur/reblur program on your new message to make it look blurred and illegible (don’t overdo it!).

(4) Quickly form a group calling itself RSI (“Roswell Slides Investigators”) or some such, remembering to include a few honest ufologists who still retain some degree of credibility.

(5) Post your revised image back on the internet and someone out there is sure to deblur it soon enough and reveal the real truth about the origin of the Roswell slides.

I suggest this is what the “mummyists” did in order to promote their case. It certainly seems to have convinced Robert Sheaffer and Gene who were both highly skeptical of the Roswell Alien solution in the first place. I think this mummyist message is equally false and that’s a view I share with Jaime Maussan. I doubt whether Lundberg had anything to do with this.

If you bothered to watch Jaime’s Tercermilenio video, published May 18 :-

you will find that he is outraged by publication of this false message that’s now said to be on the placard. This is certainly not what he paid for and I do have some sympathy for him. His version of the image seems to have a blurred something completely different on the placard. He correctly says that the first word of the “real” placard image cannot possibly be ‘MUMMIFIED’ --though he has not revealed what he thinks his deblurred message should be. I wonder whether John Lundberg gives any warranty with his products since, if the image sold to Maussan does indeed read “MUMMIFIED …..”, it's defective and I think he should be given his money back!

I am thinking of posting my own doctored image of this “Roswell Slide” on the Internet and the blurry message on the placard when deciphered will probably read something like this:-

Certificate of Authenticity. This is the body of Extraterrestrial Biological Entity MATILDA recovered from a crashed disk in July 1947.
Signed:

General J. Lundberg

509th Bombardment Wing
Roswell Army Air Field
New Mexico

 

[Sentry]

Gene, how do I change my avatar ID to "mummyist?"

 

[Gene Steinberg]

You can change your avatar icon and, when it works, your forum title under your personal settings:

https://www.theparacast.com/forum/account/

 

[Constance]

***************************************************************************************

Harry, Your analogy of the Trojan horse is entirely appropriate although in this case the “Roswell Slides” appear to have been purchased by Jaime Maussan (or possibly by his surrogate, Adam Dew) from Lundberg International, Inc., rather than just dropped off for the delight of Roswell Alien believers as a joke.

(I should point out that it was the Greeks who left the Trojan Horse --in which were concealed a number of Greek soldiers-- outside the city gates of Troy. The Greek fleet appeared to have sailed away ostensibly leaving the embattled Trojans in peace. Unfortunately these dumb Trojans hauled the huge wooden horse inside the city and later on, in the dead of night, the Greek soldiers climbed out and went to open the city gates for their comrades who had by then returned. The Greek forces poured into the city totally sacking it and thus bringing the lengthy Trojan War to an end)

Well, OK, many of us were indeed fascinated by the Roswell Slides Horse ----wherever that had popped up from. Luckily there were quite a few skeptics here in Paracast City who immediately suspected this alluring Greek gift that had been deposited outside our city gates somewhere out on the internet. Only puzzle was that its provenance did not seem immediately obvious.

Well, I hope that I’ve convinced some of you that this was indeed the work of Lundberg & Co. (a.k.a. circlemakers.org). John (“Ostension”) said on this forum that he doesn’t like to discuss his work so it’s unlikely there will ever be confirmation that he was the author of the slides.

Besides John there seems to have been someone else doing a bit of fakery with the Roswell Slide images ever since the collapse of any belief in their authenticity at Maussan’s extravaganza in Mexico City on May 5. Evidently I didn’t make myself very clear about this in my posting here yesterday.

If you suddenly realize that you’ve made a fool of yourself by proclaiming it was an alien body and you no longer buy into that idea and want people to think it’s something else (say, a mummified two year old child), you merely have to put out a new message on that highly suspicious placard. Here’s what you do:-

(1) Download that image of the corpse with the blurred placard beside it.

(2) Use PhotoShop to blank out the existing blur on the placard and then write your own message taking great care to use some ordinary font that was around in 1947.

(3) Use PhotoShop and/or some deblur/reblur program on your new message to make it look blurred and illegible (don’t overdo it!).

(4) Quickly form a group calling itself RSI (“Roswell Slides Investigators”) or some such, remembering to include a few honest ufologists who still retain some degree of credibility.

(5) Post your revised image back on the internet and someone out there is sure to deblur it soon enough and reveal the real truth about the origin of the Roswell slides.

I suggest this is what the “mummyists” did in order to promote their case. It certainly seems to have convinced Robert Sheaffer and Gene who were both highly skeptical of the Roswell Alien solution in the first place. I think this mummyist message is equally false and that’s a view I share with Jaime Maussan. I doubt whether Lundberg had anything to do with this.

If you bothered to watch Jaime’s Tercermilenio video, published May 18 :-

you will find that he is outraged by publication of this false message that’s now said to be on the placard. This is certainly not what he paid for and I do have some sympathy for him. His version of the image seems to have a blurred something completely different on the placard. He correctly says that the first word of the “real” placard image cannot possibly be ‘MUMMIFIED’ --though he has not revealed what he thinks his deblurred message should be. I wonder whether John Lundberg gives any warranty with his products since, if the image sold to Maussan does indeed read “MUMMIFIED …..”, it's defective and I think he should be given his money back!

I am thinking of posting my own doctored image of this “Roswell Slide” on the Internet and the blurry message on the placard when deciphered will probably read something like this:-

Certificate of Authenticity. This is the body of Extraterrestrial Biological Entity MATILDA recovered from a crashed disk in July 1947.
Signed:

General J. Lundberg

509th Bombardment Wing
Roswell Army Air Field
New Mexico

That would be amusing, George. Btw, have you thought to offer your theory for posting on Kevin Randle's blog to allow others to comment on it?

 

[Constance]

As a subplot, if there were to be some connection between Lundberg & Co., Dew, Dew’s friend, and friend’s sister, it may be worthwhile in pursuing. There is little doubt that John is associated with some highly talented artists. Why wouldn’t they create a model that looked more like what is considered as ET rather than what has been presented?

That's an interesting question. But, to briefly entertain George's hypothesis, the whole adventure makes sense only if they obtained and used actual, datable, late 40s photographs of an actual, traceable, local mummy whose appearance could suggest a possible Roswell alien and temporarily reignite the ET theory about Roswell, only to have that possibility dashed days later by the arrival of 'Nab Lator' and his updated DeBlur software revealing the identification of the mummy on the Park Service's museum placard. Roswell researchers again look like credulous fools and Roswell (and ufo research) get buried deeper in public consciousness. A victory for bored UK disinformationists, now idle in middle-age, who in their youth were the center of attention and intrigue in making the crop circle subject unfit for serious investigation.

 

[Burnt State]

The only victory here is the proven value of collaborative skeptical inquiry. How things can fly off the rails from that point so quickly is simply mind boggling. Instead of using a sound model to keep things on the up and up through open sourced honest discussion, how quickly ufology must descend back into unfounded speculation.

George et. al., your axe grinding on this point only serves to demonstrate how irrelevant the concept of truth is in ufology, as speculation and obfuscation seems to be the primary goal. No wonder this field moves in slow motion and events like the "Be witness to not much" can get paid for by the blind faithful. Is this really what ufology wants? Just exactly who is perpetuating the myth here as I'm finding it rather hard to tell.

There's been some specific bogeymen identified by the RSRG, do we really need to invent more out of thin air?

 

[Last Laugh]

If anyone is a mirage man, it's George. Adding layers and layers of fantastic conspiracy to confuse and divide the opinion. I'm sticking with the parsimonious solution.

 

[Burnt State]

Well that would be the reasonable choice but ufology is anything but reasonable.

 

[Creepy Green Light]

Just out of curiosity, Creepy Green, do you misconstrue the reality of 99% of what you see and experience in the world?

I don't. But when it comes to UFOs I've gone from full believer to skeptical believer. I hear a story nowadays and I have more of a "guilty until proven innocent" attitude.

 

[IsaacKoi]

Well, I hope that I’ve convinced some of you that this was indeed the work of Lundberg & Co. (a.k.a. circlemakers.org). John (“Ostension”) said on this forum that he doesn’t like to discuss his work so it’s unlikely there will ever be confirmation that he was the author of the slides.

I've drafted, and deleted, a response several times...

Anyway, as someone that has spent a fair bit of time looking into the Roswell Slides and the Santilli hoax, I am still left wondering if George can produce any EVIDENCE (not speculation) in support of his repeated suggestions that John Lundberg was:

(1) Involved in the Santilli hoax (and, if so, evidence of the role that John Lundberg played in that hoax - given that we know the cast of characters behind the hoax fairly well);

(2) Involved in any way in the Roswell Slides fiasco until very recently.

I would, of course, be interested in hearing details of any such evidence.

(I have less interest in more speculation).

 

[Han]

The Greek forces poured into the city totally sacking it and thus bringing the lengthy Trojan War to an end

That is why I changed it to "picked our pockets" because they did not sack the city, rather they prefer that the "city" (host) prospers.
They are not interested in killing the golden goose, not when it is such a dependable layer.

I don't think there is evidence that Mr Lundberg is responsible.
or that the placard was intended to be read, or that it is a dummy.

I do however think that their is strong evidence of a dynamic and well executed $tratergy.

Burnt state said "Keep in mind that good hoaxers interested in Ostension have a goal to perpetuate a myth and not have it discovered as fraud in 24-48 hours after the primary evidence goes public. "

If you define a good hoaxer in terms of monetary return, I would say that this was up there among the best, if the streaming figures I have heard are accurate. Lets not forget all those clicks and views = $ not to mention the royalties from the media provided to the "newspaper" websites. The thing I am trying to point out is that curiosity killed the cat, anyone who payed money to see the slides or hear the opinion of the "experts" did so knowing the track records of those involved, the fact that we are still discussing it weeks later, shows what a good job they did.

Caveat emptor.


I have a suspicion that whoever was behind this knew the status of the Mummies that the Museum returned, but maybe they did not, it is just very convenient from their point of view.

Just for clarity my understanding is that: the Mesa Verde Museum returned the Mummies and they were reinterred.
I do not see the need to disturb the bodies again, but this is exactly what some people want to see.

I predict it is only a matter of time until some kind of "foia" request is filed with the hope of exhuming the bodies, I suspect that this will be rejected on the grounds that: the said mummy was available for examination for an extended period of time, when it was in the museum, and that two blurry slides are not suffiecent "evidence" to justify reexamination. But this will be used as "evidence" of some grand conspiracy to supress the truth about ET bodies being recovered at Roswell..........
Round and round we go.....

And over two blurry slides, the mind boggles....

 

[storge]

...

Several new slides have emerged following the Be Witless event. The first at top right is from the Million Dollar Museum and found by Linda Moulton Howe following a phone message she said Stan F. left for her, explaining the Mexico hype was a mummy housed at that museum in White's, New Mexico. As is her wont, Linda fell for the disinfo and promptly set off on a wild goose chase, although we all know the Maussan mummy is from the Chapin Museum and Visitor's Center at Mesa Verde National Park in Colorado. Linda, of course, found her own alien at White's. She and Maussan then went on Whitley's Dreamland. Unlike Whitley's astute rejection of Greer's Sirius mummified native child, he fell for it this time. Whitley and Howe are convinced they now have two alien bodies here, one in the slides, the other at the now-closed museum in White's.

The bottom-most slide has been subjected to a deblur of the third kind and the inscription has been deciphered:

"This alien ET body from a crashed UFO was discovered at a crashed UFO site in the Atacoma desert in Chile. Loaned by Steve Greer."

 

[Burnt State]

Burnt state said "Keep in mind that good hoaxers interested in Ostension have a goal to perpetuate a myth and not have it discovered as fraud in 24-48 hours after the primary evidence goes public. "

If you define a good hoaxer in terms of monetary return, I would say that this was up there among the best, if the streaming figures I have heard are accurate. Lets not forget all those clicks and views = $ not to mention the royalties from the media provided to the "newspaper" websites. The thing I am trying to point out is that curiosity killed the cat, anyone who payed money to see the slides or hear the opinion of the "experts" did so knowing the track records of those involved, the fact that we are still discussing it weeks later, shows what a good job they did.

Caveat emptor.

I suppose any good hoaxer wants to have their work remain obscure and be in the limelight for as long as possible. But a hoaxer interested in Ostension, in the pure perpetuation of the myth, seeks no monetary gain. They are making a social art and drawing attention to living myth through methods that transform folklore into a perceived reality. If you are doing that for money then I would say your primary interest is fraud and not the myth itself. Mirage Men does not get read properly at all as many see Lundberg as managing the perceptions and he's not. He's pointing out how Doty managed perceptions and brought the myth to life. Interviews with Linda Moulton Howe demonstrate just how real the myth can become for some people. Their reality has fundamentally altered as a consequence.

George, whether he realizes it or not, is engaged in Ostension himself, as he keeps trying to point out the mythos of Lundberg as some kind of UFO megalomaniac who keeps trying to pull a fast one on people. He is engaged in that kind of speculation about untruths that do not actually speak to facts or truth. Lundberg, in interviews posted here on the forum identify clearly what his goal was - to make the best possible crop circles possible, to make really amazing and stunning crop circles, in fact, that some people would just have their minds blown away by and see them as emblematic gifts of truly paranormal proportions. George keeps trying to create a UFO hoaxer boogeyman, in the same way that the disclosure crew assumes that there is a governmental boogeyman that is trying to pull a fast one by denying everyone their god given right to have the goods on the whole UFO deal. But really, a cold look at the situation tells us that the government knows perhaps only a fraction more than the history of citizen investigation. Speculation is about speculation and trying to make claims and facts out of speculation serves only to fuel untruths. It dresses up ufology in more invisible clothes belonging to an emperor that might not even exist.

 

[DaveM]

The reason why Maussan has his nose out of joint is Dew and Maussan probably had plans to have a dog and pony show at Roswell and elsewhere.

They may still have a show for the believers who show up at Roswell but having the placard deciphered casts doubts on all their plans now.

 

[Constance]

I suppose any good hoaxer wants to have their work remain obscure and be in the limelight for as long as possible. But a hoaxer interested in Ostension, in the pure perpetuation of the myth, seeks no monetary gain. They are making a social art and drawing attention to living myth through methods that transform folklore into a perceived reality. If you are doing that for money then I would say your primary interest is fraud and not the myth itself. Mirage Men does not get read properly at all as many see Lundberg as managing the perceptions and he's not. He's pointing out how Doty managed perceptions and brought the myth to life. Interviews with Linda Moulton Howe demonstrate just how real the myth can become for some people. Their reality has fundamentally altered as a consequence.

George, whether he realizes it or not, is engaged in Ostension himself, as he keeps trying to point out the mythos of Lundberg as some kind of UFO megalomaniac who keeps trying to pull a fast one on people. He is engaged in that kind of speculation about untruths that do not actually speak to facts or truth. Lundberg, in interviews posted here on the forum identify clearly what his goal was - to make the best possible crop circles possible, to make really amazing and stunning crop circles, in fact, that some people would just have their minds blown away by and see them as emblematic gifts of truly paranormal proportions. George keeps trying to create a UFO hoaxer boogeyman, in the same way that the disclosure crew assumes that there is a governmental boogeyman that is trying to pull a fast one by denying everyone their god given right to have the goods on the whole UFO deal. But really, a cold look at the situation tells us that the government knows perhaps only a fraction more than the history of citizen investigation. Speculation is about speculation and trying to make claims and facts out of speculation serves only to fuel untruths. It dresses up ufology in more invisible clothes belonging to an emperor that might not even exist.

Your speculations about the intentions of Lundberg's Circlemakers seem to me to be based on little familiarity with and understanding of their activities over several decades in the marginalization of crop circles as a subject meriting serious scientific investigation. George certainly knows a great deal about that and, while he currently seems to be somewhat overwhelmed by what he perceives as their hoaxing skills, he could enlighten us about what the Circlemakers actually sought to do and did, and how and why they did it. I saw and heard enough in three years in the CCCforum to recognize their intentions and methods, but George had a front-row seat. I hope he will enlighten us concerning the Lundberg et al history.