The Legacy of Covid Vaccines

[Tyger]

"At well-child check-ups, it’s common for 2 month, 4 month, 6 month etc., appointments to include up to 8 vaccinations that add up to more than 1,000 mcg of aluminum. Looking at the chart below that amount isn’t even safe for a 350-pound adult. And many children get up to 8 vaccinations a visit several times a year."

 

[Randall]

I'm aware there are strong feelings pro-vaccine. Not posting to change anyone's mind - just in the spirit of 'look at this bit of info.'

I have always been neutral - and trusting - about vaccines until covid. Would never have questioned the tetanus shot. After all I did take the new iteration of the shingles vaccine, booster and all in 2019. No longer - I would be very cautious about a vaccine now post-covid.

Yep — If one looks back to my early posts here, I started out the same way, even suggesting that the mRNA vax was the way to go — because like other fools who "trusted the science", I figured they'd worked out all the problems with it ( but they hadn't ).

A few weeks in, I started posting here that based on the real science, mRNA vaccines looked like they had the potential to cause serious neurovascular problems ( all now confirmed ), but that's when the censorship here and on the MSM started.

The most disappointing thing nowadays is how many people still believe that statements like these are scientific:

• "Follow the science."
• "Do the right thing."
• "We're all in it together."
• "Safe and effective"
• "A pandemic of the unvaccinated."

They're not scientific at all. They're propagandist marketing slogans ( nothing more ).

By now, the deception should be obvious to anyone with an IQ over 40. Yet supposedly "intelligent" people have been so psyopped that their belief in vaccines is akin to religious extremism — to the point where according to them, firing people from their jobs, throwing them in quarantine camps, and force vaccinating them should be the "new normal". It's sick — but that's the vax-cult mentality, quietly lurking out there waiting for the next one.

Some People Did Wake Up — Eventually

 

[Randall]

New York Firefighter Won His COVID Vaccine Mandate Case, but the City Is Refusing To Pay​

Nearly four years after a judge ordered New York City to reinstate unvaccinated firefighter Timothy Rivicci and pay him back wages, the city is still refusing to pay — as the "Legacy of COVID Vaccines" continues. "The mandate may be gone, but for some some City workers, the punishment never ended".

 

[Burnt State]

"At well-child check-ups, it’s common for 2 month, 4 month, 6 month etc., appointments to include up to 8 vaccinations that add up to more than 1,000 mcg of aluminum. Looking at the chart below that amount isn’t even safe for a 350-pound adult. And many children get up to 8 vaccinations a visit several times a year."

If I had the spare time I would be dismissing almost every single ridiculous, misinformed post here on this thread, but it's tomato season and I have hundreds of pounds of tomatoes to process and turn into sauce.

Aluminum is the third most common element on the planet. It's in the air, food soil etc. A baby in its first six months of existence will consume and process 7000 mcg of aluminum just from breast milk alone. It's part of life.

The aluminum salts in vaccines that jump start the immune system activates the benefits quicker which causes the need for less vaccinations overall.

This is all pretend and junk science that the antivaxxers promote as real truth, real evidence. It's all malarkey and has nothing to do with the clear fact that without vaccines babies would be more sick, dying and in hospitals all the gosh darn time, bringing the health care system to a halt.

I'll say it again - it's is a pure conspiracy theory and nothing more built to confuse and anger people, promote false ideologies, and distract them from the real crises on planet earth such as disease, famine, corporate and political colonialism, environmental chaos, racism, sexism, consumer blindness etc. It is literally the worst thing the Internet has brought to society - 100% pure misinformation.

 

[Randall]

If I had the spare time I would be dismissing almost every single ridiculous, misinformed post here on this thread,

Not valid counterpoint — An unsubstantiated claim based on irrelevant opinion.

but it's tomato season and I have hundreds of pounds of tomatoes to process and turn into sauce.

That sounds pretty awesome — lots of Lycopene — a great antioxidant that's good for heart and prostate health.

Aluminum is the third most common element on the planet.

So what? Not relevant counterpoint.

It's in the air, food soil etc. A baby in its first six months of existence will consume and process 7000 mcg of aluminum just from breast milk alone. It's part of life.

Again — Not relevant counterpoint.

To add — ingesting aluminum versus injecting into a person are two entirely different mechanisms of delivery. The gastrointestinal tract acts as a strong protective barrier, and only about 0.1% to 1% of ingested aluminum from food, water, or medications is absorbed into the bloodstream.

In contrast, intramuscular or subcutaneous injections ( such as aluminum-containing vaccine adjuvants ) bypass the digestive barrier entirely, meaning nearly 100% of the soluble dose enters systemic circulation — inducing a toxic reaction that vaxxers assume is "healthy" ( when it's not ).

Injection vs. Ingestion

Injection vs. Ingestion Click here to view the toxic ingredients in vaccines Ingestion vs. Injection… what’s the difference? Ingestion substances flow through the body’s biological detox pathway, which includes the mucosal cells, stomach, intestines, kidneys and liver. The gastrointestinal (GI)...

learntherisk.org

Developmental neurological disorders such as autism spectrum disorder (ASD) also have a potential Al link through the accumulative weight of pediatric vaccines, many of which contain Al as adjuvants.29 Indeed, there is a highly significant correlation between ASD rates and cumulative Al adjuvant amount,30 a correlation that satisfies eight of nine Hill criteria for causality. Similar outcomes are found in new born mice injected with Al adjuvants.31 A recent review also links Al to ASD.

Risks of Al toxicity are elevated for some easily defined subsets of the general public. For example, infants and small children carry greater risk because intake limits are based on body weight and individuals with kidney immaturity or abnormalities because the normal pathway for excreting aluminum from the body is via urine and feces.37 Continued research on pediatric, geriatric, and other high risk groups rather than the general population may increase efficiency of research.

Aluminum and the human diet revisited - PMC

Concerns about aluminum (Al) exposure in the human diet have persisted for one century. We suggest that continued research would benefit from better reporting of environmental factors that are known to influence Al accumulation in plant organs that ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The aluminum salts in vaccines that jump start the immune system activates the benefits quicker which causes the need for less vaccinations overall.

Not valid counterpoint — A front loaded claim that assumes "benefits" and a "need for vaccines" — before any "benefit" has been established for the individual patient taking it.

This is all pretend and junk science that the antivaxxers promote as real truth, real evidence.

Smearing and name calling is not valid counterpoint.

It's all malarkey and has nothing to do with the clear fact that without vaccines babies would be more sick, dying and in hospitals all the gosh darn time, bringing the health care system to a halt.

That is an unsupported claim based on subjective opinion ( malarkey ) and unsubstantiated evidence — contrary to valid studies that confirm that, all things being equal in an healthy environment, unvaccinated children are statistically healthier overall and actually need less medical care See table below.

I'll say it again - it's is a pure conspiracy theory and nothing more built to confuse and anger people, promote false ideologies, and distract them from the real crises on planet earth such as disease, famine, corporate and political colonialism, environmental chaos, racism, sexism, consumer blindness etc. It is literally the worst thing the Internet has brought to society - 100% pure misinformation.

Repeating epithets, name calling, etc, doesn't add weight to them.

Here is something that does count is actual evidence . . .

Aluminum is not a necessary human mineral and has no known normal physiological or biological function in the body.

• No biological role: The human body does not use aluminum for any metabolic or enzymatic process.
• Potential toxicity: Once absorbed, aluminum can interfere with cellular metabolism, displace essential minerals like calcium and magnesium, and promote oxidative stress.

Here is only one of several study results of vaxxed vs unvaxxed children:

Vaccinated versus unvaccinated (during the first year of life), stratified based on medical practice, gender and year of birth:

​

Diagnosis​	Vaccinated Cases/total​	Unvaccinated Cases/total​	Odds ratio (95% CI)​	p-value​
Developmental delay​	83/800 (10.4%)​	14/272 (5.1%)​	2.36 (1.29–4.31)​	0.0051​
Asthma​	45/803 (5.6%)​	4/273 (1.5%)​	4.93 (1.75–13.9)​	0.0026​
Ear infection​	168/648 (25.9%)​	40/235 (17.0%)​	2.49 (1.65–3.76)​	<0.0001​
Gastrointestinal disorder​	37/776 (6.5%)​	6/268 (2.2%)​	2.48 (1.02–6.02)​	0.045​
Head injury​	63/797 (7.9%)​	16/270 (5.9%)​	1.58 (0.89–2.81)​	0.12​

If we had the time, I could continue to provide valid counterpoint that outweighs the numerous errors in logic and reason by vaxxers. You could save yourself a lot of effort by recognizing them yourself — in particular the logically false claim of assuming that X ( vaccines ) prevents Y ( a disease ) before it actually happens to a patient.

For example: Patients who never contracted the pathogen in the first place can end-up in the "saved by the vaccine" category because superficially, without that data point, it looks like because they were vaxxed, they never got the disease ( when that isn't the case ). Other examples include false positives and misdiagnoses.

The smoke and mirrors with vaccines happens because in the criteria for causation, the effect of a pathogen ( a disease ) needs to happen before the application of a treatment ( medication ) in order to measure the medication's efficacy. But that's not how vaccines work. Instead, those who create vaccines use statistical models to estimate efficacy, and as I already showed earlier — those estimates are very self-serving, often missing crucial data, while containing errors and bias. Literally every so-called "scientific" study I've looked at for vaccine efficacy has such problems.

I get that it takes more time and effort than you have to figure that all out honestly for yourself — unlike me, who's spent hours every day over the last six years digging into this from all angles. Others have too, including vaccine injury lawyer Aaron Siri who did an exhaustive examination of how much scientific study was actually done on childhood vaccines before they were "approved" for the schedule.

Unfortunately, you still haven't read his book — have you? He's won many cases for his clients, yet for some reason you think you could do better? I'm sorry, but you really need to make more of an effort to deprogram yourself.

 

[Burnt State]

Not valid counterpoint — An unsubstantiated claim based on irrelevant opinion.

That sounds pretty awesome — lots of Lycopene — a great antioxidant that's good for heart and prostate health.

So what? Not relevant counterpoint.

Again — Not relevant counterpoint.

To add — ingesting aluminum versus injecting into a person are two entirely different mechanisms of delivery. The gastrointestinal tract acts as a strong protective barrier, and only about 0.1% to 1% of ingested aluminum from food, water, or medications is absorbed into the bloodstream.

In contrast, intramuscular or subcutaneous injections ( such as aluminum-containing vaccine adjuvants ) bypass the digestive barrier entirely, meaning nearly 100% of the soluble dose enters systemic circulation — inducing a toxic reaction that vaxxers assume is "healthy" ( when it's not ).

Injection vs. Ingestion

Injection vs. Ingestion Click here to view the toxic ingredients in vaccines Ingestion vs. Injection… what’s the difference? Ingestion substances flow through the body’s biological detox pathway, which includes the mucosal cells, stomach, intestines, kidneys and liver. The gastrointestinal (GI)...

learntherisk.org

Not valid counterpoint — A front loaded claim that assumes "benefits" and a "need for vaccines" — before any "benefit" has been established for the individual patient taking it.

Smearing and name calling is not valid counterpoint.

That is an unsupported claim based on subjective opinion ( malarkey ) and unsubstantiated evidence — contrary to valid studies that confirm that, all things being equal in an healthy environment, unvaccinated children are statistically healthier overall and actually need less medical care See table below.

Repeating epithets, name calling, etc, doesn't add weight to them.

Here is something that does count is actual evidence . . .

Aluminum is not a necessary human mineral and has no known normal physiological or biological function in the body.

• No biological role: The human body does not use aluminum for any metabolic or enzymatic process.
• Potential toxicity: Once absorbed, aluminum can interfere with cellular metabolism, displace essential minerals like calcium and magnesium, and promote oxidative stress.

Here is only one of several study results of vaxxed vs unvaxxed children:

Vaccinated versus unvaccinated (during the first year of life), stratified based on medical practice, gender and year of birth:

​

Diagnosis​	Vaccinated Cases/total​	Unvaccinated Cases/total​	Odds ratio (95% CI)​	p-value​
Developmental delay​	83/800 (10.4%)​	14/272 (5.1%)​	2.36 (1.29–4.31)​	0.0051​
Asthma​	45/803 (5.6%)​	4/273 (1.5%)​	4.93 (1.75–13.9)​	0.0026​
Ear infection​	168/648 (25.9%)​	40/235 (17.0%)​	2.49 (1.65–3.76)​	<0.0001​
Gastrointestinal disorder​	37/776 (6.5%)​	6/268 (2.2%)​	2.48 (1.02–6.02)​	0.045​
Head injury​	63/797 (7.9%)​	16/270 (5.9%)​	1.58 (0.89–2.81)​	0.12​

If we had the time, I could continue to provide valid counterpoint that outweighs the numerous errors in logic and reason by vaxxers. You could save yourself a lot of effort by recognizing them yourself — in particular the logically false claim of assuming that X ( vaccines ) prevents Y ( a disease ) before it actually happens to a patient.

For example: Patients who never contracted the pathogen in the first place can end-up in the "saved by the vaccine" category because superficially, without that data point, it looks like because they were vaxxed, they never got the disease ( when that isn't the case ). Other examples include false positives and misdiagnoses.

The smoke and mirrors with vaccines happens because in the criteria for causation, the effect of a pathogen ( a disease ) needs to happen before the application of a treatment ( medication ) in order to measure the medication's efficacy. But that's not how vaccines work. Instead, those who create vaccines use statistical models to estimate efficacy, and as I already showed earlier — those estimates are very self-serving, often missing crucial data, while containing errors and bias. Literally every so-called "scientific" study I've looked at for vaccine efficacy has such problems.

I get that it takes more time and effort than you have to figure that all out honestly for yourself — unlike me, who's spent hours every day over the last six years digging into this from all angles. Others have too, including vaccine injury lawyer Aaron Siri who did an exhaustive examination of how much scientific study was actually done on childhood vaccines before they were "approved" for the schedule.

Unfortunately, you still haven't read his book — have you? He's won many cases for his clients, yet for some reason you think you could do better? I'm sorry, but you really need to make more of an effort to deprogram yourself.

It's like talking to someone on a merry go round.

If you are concerned about aluminum intake then stop breathing, definitely don't drink water or eat food. Across 80 years the average person will consume about 200,000 to 260,000 mg of aluminum salts up against the 11 to 12 mg you would receive from vaccines in a lifetime....oh wait that's an invalid counterpoint.

Give me a break.

 

[Randall]

It's like talking to someone on a merry go round.

Again — not valid counterpoint.
Valid counterpoint requires a specific coherent and relevant rebuttal to a specific point.

If you are concerned about aluminum intake then stop breathing, definitely don't drink water or eat food. Across 80 years the average person will consume about 200,000 to 260,000 mg of aluminum salts up against the 11 to 12 mg you would receive from vaccines in a lifetime....oh wait that's an invalid counterpoint.

Again — not valid counterpoint. Specifically a straw man argument ( a superficially similar, but irrelevant comparison )
There are two specific points you failed to address.

1. That digestion and breathing are entirely separate methods of intake compared to direct injection, which results in higher immediate concentration and different absorption within the same time frame. Assuming the two methods have the same effect is like assuming that the effect on an engine is the same whether you floor it and direct inject fuel for a short period ( like a drag racer ), or drive it easy and use the same fuel in small doses over time ( like an everyday driver ). Drag racers have to be rebuilt after every race. Daily drivers don't. Similarly, people can handle many toxic substances in small doses over time, while a quick concentrated dose can can have serious detrimental effects.
   
   
2. Actual data showing a study with results showing unvaccinated children as healthier overall than their vaccinated counterparts has been ignored.

If you don't want to feel like you're talking to a merry go round, then stop making the same bad arguments and errors in logic.

Give me a break.

You'll get every break you deserve — now consider what I just said while you process those tomatoes

 

[Burnt State]

Again — not valid counterpoint.
Valid counterpoint requires a specific coherent and relevant rebuttal to a specific point.

Again — not valid counterpoint. Specifically a straw man argument ( a superficially similar, but irrelevant comparison )
There are two specific points you failed to address.

1. That digestion and breathing are entirely separate methods of intake compared to direct injection, which results in higher immediate concentration and different absorption within the same time frame. Assuming the two methods have the same effect is like assuming that the effect on an engine is the same whether you floor it and direct inject fuel for a short period ( like a drag racer ), or drive it easy and use the same fuel in small doses over time ( like an everyday driver ). Drag racers have to be rebuilt after every race. Daily drivers don't. Similarly, people can handle many toxic substances in small doses over time, while a quick concentrated dose can can have serious detrimental effects.
   
   
2. Actual data showing a study with results showing unvaccinated children as healthier overall than their vaccinated counterparts has been ignored.

If you don't want to feel like you're talking to a merry go round, then stop making the same bad arguments and errors in logic.

You'll get every break you deserve — now consider what I just said while you process those tomatoes

Ok well let's address it then, because injecting and digestion, while different, the effects are the same. In fact more aluminum goes into the bloodstream through digestion than it does through injection.

Injection of these salts hang out at the injection point and dissolve very slowly over time entering the bloodstream in trace amounts and then, just like digestion, get processed through the kidneys and head out through your urine.

At the end of the day, the natural consumption of aluminum on an every day basis is a much larger volume entering into your bloodstream than the teace amount through vaccines. So at the end of the day, my point stands, you will ingest and have more aluminum floating around in your blood in a much greater magnitude than any vaccine injection will ever do.

I know you're committed to this belief system, like a religion, so it doesn't matter what real science I present to you; because, you still think ivermectin is good for you and will cure you - talk about bogus science. Not one proper clinical analysis has proven the merit of alternatives over vaccines.

You still can't even possibly conceive of the realities of a world without vaccines. You can't conceive of how many dead babies, dead adults and general destruction to the healthcare system would arise without vaccines on this planet. Are you not reading the history of science and disease on this planet at all?

You are holding onto a vague argument, loaded with so much pseudo science it's not even funny, and it's impossible to argue with you about; because, you actually believe in all the junk science, data manipulation and lack of reality when it comes to the great gift that vaccines have been to humanity since their invention.

The only people who don't recognize vaccines as one of the top two, if not greatest overall scientific discovery, are antivaxxers.

Somehow that makes the rest of the history of the scientists on this planet a bunch of idiots in your reality. Please explain that one. What is it that all the great many biologists and epidemiologists have missed all this time? Are they really all that stupid in your mind? Are they all in the pocket of big pharma? How exactly do you square that round egg? Are university profs all bought out by big pharma and are misleading all the independent graduate students somehow? It's ridiculous. That's why it is pure malarkey.

And that's why I process tomatoes instead of arguing with someone who is so far into the belief of this flawed, false reality that there's little point in wasting brain cells even typing this post out.

 

[Randall]

Ok well let's address it then, because injecting and digestion, while different, the effects are the same.

No the effects are not the same — you obviously didn't read any of the articles with critical eye. Over time, both exposures average out as small. But with an injection, the absorption, and effects are different — if not precisely for the reason that an injection is designed to elicit a specific immune reaction to the toxin. If that wasn't the case, then there'd be no point in making it an adjuvant — Capisce?

In fact more aluminum goes into the bloodstream through digestion than it does through injection.

Not according to the research ( which you either didn't read or have misinterpreted ).

Injection of these salts hang out at the injection point and dissolve very slowly over time entering the bloodstream in trace amounts and then, just like digestion, get processed through the kidneys and head out through your urine.

That's what they say in some articles — just like they told us that the mRNA vax stayed at the site. It's BS — otherwise there's be no adjuvant effect. You need to go deeper than that the superficial pro-vax biased BS that most research has to adhere to in order to get funding from big pharma.

At the end of the day,

That's the whole point — at the end of the day you can take snake venom in small amounts and become immune to it too.

the natural consumption of aluminum on an every day basis is a much larger volume entering into your bloodstream than the teace amount through vaccines. So at the end of the day, my point stands, you will ingest and have more aluminum floating around in your blood in a much greater magnitude than any vaccine injection will ever do.

An injection is NOT "natural consumption".

I know you're committed to this belief system, like a religion,

Nope — you have that backwards — in fact, you still haven't read "Vaccines Amen" which makes exactly the point you're trying to make, but with way better references.

so it doesn't matter what real science I present to you; because, you still think ivermectin is good for you and will cure you - talk about bogus science. Not one proper clinical analysis has proven the merit of alternatives over vaccines.

I'm the one who has been presenting "real evidence" — while you just make unsubstantiated claims based on superficial biased sources.

You still can't even possibly conceive of the realities of a world without vaccines.

Sure I can — so can lots of people.

You can't conceive of how many dead babies, dead adults and general destruction to the healthcare system would arise without vaccines on this planet. Are you not reading the history of science and disease on this planet at all?

We've already been through that, and your perception fails to account for all the deaths and injuries caused by vaccines and that there is no evidence vacines actually "saved" anybody. You just keep repeating the same mantra without addressing the faulty rationale behind them.

You are holding onto a vague argument, loaded with so much pseudo science it's not even funny, and it's impossible to argue with you about; because, you actually believe in all the junk science, data manipulation and lack of reality when it comes to the great gift that vaccines have been to humanity since their invention.

Those are false assumptions. As I already said, Attorney Aaron Siri has defended and won many vaccine injury cases based on solid science, and autopsies along with lab results have proven that vaccine injuries are real. There are man many case that you are simply hand waving as "pseudoscience" — when it's not.

The only people who don't recognize vaccines as one of the top two, if not greatest overall scientific discovery, are antivaxxers.

Leveling more of that doesn't help your case.

Somehow that makes the rest of the history of the scientists on this planet a bunch of idiots in your reality. Please explain that one. What is it that all the great many biologists and epidemiologists have missed all this time? Are they really all that stupid in your mind? Are they all in the pocket of big pharma? How exactly do you square that round egg? Are university profs all bought out by big pharma and are misleading all the independent graduate students somehow? It's ridiculous. That's why it is pure malarkey.

Again — you haven't taken the time to really dig into the evidence. You're still on the ground floor — using character assassinations and name calling instead of adequately addressing the counterpoint I made — though at least made a superficial attempt at the start of this one.

And that's why I process tomatoes instead of arguing with someone who is so far into the belief of this flawed, false reality that there's little point in wasting brain cells even typing this post out.

It's not a waste of brain cells to apply critical thinking and evidence to the question — which you think you've done — but you haven't. Unlike you, I started out much where you are now. If anything, if all the vaxxer's claims were true, I'd have a mountain of evidence to prove I was right from the start. Instead — I found just the opposite and was forced to upgrade my knowledge and thinking. You could do the same if you applied yourself.

Lastly — Just a gentle reminder that vaccine safety & efficacy are a sidecar issue for me. My primary focus is on freedom from coercive mandates regardless of how safe and effective a pharmaceutical might be, as well as fully informed patient consent, and accountability of manufacturers and deliverers of pharmaceuticals that have caused injuries or deaths — as well as ending the censorship and discrimination against the non-vaxxed and vaccine skeptics.

If you wanna take a vax — go for it. I won't stop you. But if you think others need to do the same or suffer some sort of unpleasant consequences from governments, employers, or vaxxer bigots — we're on two different sides of the barricades.

So did you grow those yourself?

 

[Burnt State]

Here's one last big thing question, which I think is a large part of the legacy of COVID - it's making people talk fervently and frequently about vaccines and diseases.

So here's my big question regarding the following top ten life threatening diseases that vaccines prevent which has been part of this ongoing discussion:

Measles
A very contagious virus that causes a high fever and rash. It can lead to brain swelling, lung damage, or death.
Tetanus
A bacteria found in dirt that enters through cuts. It causes painful muscle cramps and lockjaw, making it hard to breathe.
Polio
A virus that attacks the nervous system. It can cause permanent paralysis or death within hours.
Rabies
A deadly virus spread by infected animal bites. Once symptoms start, it is almost always fatal without early treatment or prior vaccination.
Hepatitis B
A virus that attacks the liver. It spreads through body fluids and can cause long-term liver damage, failure, or cancer.
Pertussis (Whooping Cough)
A bacterial lung infection that causes violent coughing fits. It is especially dangerous and deadly for newborn babies.
Diphtheria
A bacterial infection that forms a thick gray coating in the throat. It can block breathing and damage the heart.
Meningococcal Disease
A fast-moving bacterial infection that causes dangerous swelling around the brain and spinal cord.
Human Papillomavirus (HPV)
A common virus that can turn into serious cancers later in life, most notably cervical cancer.
Pneumococcal Disease
A bacterial infection that causes severe pneumonia, blood infections, and dangerous swelling of the brain.

These diseases exist; they kill; and so I have to ask everyone what is our best known means to prevent the 3.5 million to 5 million annual deaths of mostly infants, not to mention the incredible amount of permanent disabilities, that are currently being prevented by vaccines?

What's the alternative? I've seen very little global scale alternatives from the anti vaccination promoters aside from unproven single solutions for COVID with no clinical supporting evidence, just self reported successes. What about the other killer diseases?

How do we solve them without clogging the healthcare system, and costing billions upon billions of more dollars to deal without the sick children and hospitalization because of epidemics of these diseases? Vaccines save lives and an incredible amount of money by eliminating expensive hospitalization because of these are life threatening diseases.

I see a lot of hating vaccines and rallying against them, but I'm not seeing any global solutions for these diseases.

For example, a child is bit by a rabid animal. Sorry, we don't believe in the vaccine series for that. Here's have an orange popsicle. Child dies. Is that how it goes? Does ivermectin cure rabies too?

 

[Burnt State]

So did you grow those yourself?

That was the start of harvest. Things are much more clogged up in the basement now. Last year we grew 400lbs of tomatoes and made 100L of sauce and salsa. This year we added a bunch of new varieties to the mix and so we are on track for about 600 lbs. Our community garden my partner, brother and i run is an act of madness. But I like my food as organic as I can grow it.



Don't even get me started on how many pickles we've processed or how much sauerkraut we've made...

 

[Randall]

That was the start of harvest. Things are much more clogged up in the basement now. Last year we grew 400lbs of tomatoes and made 100L of sauce and salsa. This year we added a bunch of new varieties to the mix and so we are on track for about 600 lbs. Our community garden my partner, brother and i run is an act of madness. But I like my food as organic as I can grow it.



Don't even get me started on how many pickles we've processed or how much sauerkraut we've made...

Very nice — truly impressed.
I recently ordered some stainless steel mason jar lids for my few jars.
I got sick of my old ones rotting and having to throw them away.
Anyway — all that work is something to be proud of !
My big job for this week was playing refrigerator repairman.
Saved over $600 as a DIY vs. calling a service guy.

 

[Burnt State]

I'm the one who has been presenting "real evidence" — while you just make unsubstantiated claims based on superficial biased sources.

The history of science and the history of vaccines which is 230 years old has nothing superficial about it.

We've already been through that, and your perception fails to account for all the deaths and injuries caused by vaccines and that there is no evidence vacines actually "saved" anybody. You just keep repeating the same mantra without addressing the faulty rationale behind them.

See, that's what I would call a nonsensical religious statement. In the global north where we have vaccines we can compare the incredibly low volume of deaths because of diseases with the global south where there is limited vaccination and millions of children are dying. What do you think is going on here? We used to have these deaths and then vaccines came and now, if you can get to a hospital in time, you can get the rabies series of vaccinations and have your life saved.

Again — you haven't taken the time to really dig into the evidence. You're still on the ground floor — using character assassinations and name calling instead of adequately addressing the counterpoint I made — though at least made a superficial attempt at the start of this one.

It's not a character assassination. These are legitimate questions. Does the history of epidemiology exist or not? Does the 230 year old history of vaccines have a proven track record according to death rates, rate of disability and rate of infection or not? Just when was it that Big Pharma decided to take over epidemiology and control it entirely for the sake of making money and injecting people with aluminum? These are serious questions in the history of this discussion.

Lastly — Just a gentle reminder that vaccine safety & efficacy are a sidecar issue for me. My primary focus is on freedom from coercive mandates regardless of how safe and effective a pharmaceutical might be, as well as fully informed patient consent, and accountability of manufacturers and deliverers of pharmaceuticals that have caused injuries or deaths — as well as ending the censorship and discrimination against the non-vaxxed and vaccine skeptics.

If you wanna take a vax — go for it. I won't stop you. But if you think others need to do the same or suffer some sort of unpleasant consequences from governments, employers, or vaxxer bigots — we're on two different sides of the barricades.

Trying to convince people that childhood vaccinations are bogus, unhealthy and cause disease is like saying Tylenol causes autism. It's reprehensible. It also clouds the general discussion, by falsely dismissing these life threatening diseases; rallying against vaccines of all kinds serves no one.

You keep talking about digging deeper, but then again there is this thing called science and how it progresses through universities to research environments to hospitals, and it's been doing that for hundreds of years. It's a real thing. It's not all controlled by big pharma. Discovery, and proper medical treatment has a proven track record of improvement and efficacy when it comes to life saving strategies. On the flip side the anti vaccination group presents nothing that clinical trials can verify or will be as effective as vaccines. One follows the other in this discussion...

Strongly recommending people to be vaccinated saves lives on the whole. However, I don't think anyone should be forced to have anything injected into them if they don't want it. But if we are to keep the herd safe in schools, and in areas where people are immuno compromised, or because you need that profession to function by being disease free ì.e. military, health services, and other vital social services then vaccines come with that job. Many state that upon entering those professions. So you can't complain about it after the fact. You also can't be a liability to your service or the immuno compromised people you serve. So yes that may lead to suspension or dismissal. That is part of the history of science. That is why the military makes it a critical requirement.

 

[Burnt State]

Very nice — truly impressed.
I recently ordered some stainless steel mason jar lids for my few jars.
I got sick of my old ones rotting and having to throw them away.
Anyway — all that work is something to be proud of !
My big job for this week was playing refrigerator repairman.
Saved over $600 as a DIY vs. calling a service guy.

Thank you. I also believe that independence from any corporate food provider is a good strategy, as is learning how to repair your own appliances, and buying appliances that can be repaired. AI has totally streamlined the process of learning how to fix a lot of things I normally would never have attempted. Though, my preference is still in person training.

 

[Randall]

This week ( Sep 01 2026 ) on The Download, Pennsylvania’s measles story takes another turn as a New York Times op-ed concedes the state’s initial messaging may have been premature, while the governor still refuses to answer key questions.

MSM Misinformation On Measles

​

 

[Red]

Dr. Russell Blaylock: "The tetanus vaccine is one of the MOST RIDICULOUS vaccines ever."

Here’s what they won’t tell you:

The shot they push is NOT a simple tetanus vaccine — it’s the full DTaP combo loaded with:
• Aluminum (up to 0.625 mg — a known neurotoxin)
• Formaldehyde
• 2-phenoxyethanol + Triton X-100
• Milk protein (casein) & latex residues that can trigger anaphylaxis or CREATE new dairy/latex allergies

The tetanus toxoid inside has NEVER been properly safety-tested in a double-blind placebo-controlled trial. CDC admits it.

Your actual chance of getting tetanus? 1 in 11 MILLION.

If you’re already exposed, the shot is useless — it takes 3-8 weeks for antibodies.

But high-dose Vitamin C (1–3g/day) cured 100% of cases in studies with ZERO deaths. Cheap. Safe. Ignored.

It was one study in India. More studies are needed. I had a grandparent die of tetanus before I was born. The vaccine is the single best way to prevent a tetanus infection which is almost always fatal as administration of antitoxin is not always successful. It's also a horrible and painful way to die.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24226506/

I hope neither of you ever have to deal with it.

 

[Randall]

The history of science and the history of vaccines which is 230 years old has nothing superficial about it.

Not relevant to the context of that exchange.

See, that's what I would call a nonsensical religious statement. In the global north where we have vaccines we can compare the incredibly low volume of deaths because of diseases with the global south where there is limited vaccination and millions of children are dying. What do you think is going on here? We used to have these deaths and then vaccines came and now, if you can get to a hospital in time, you can get the rabies series of vaccinations and have your life saved.

Been through that already — not again.

It's not a character assassination.

Call it whatever you want — it's not relevant to the issue.

These are legitimate questions. Does the history of epidemiology exist or not?

Whether epidemiology exists isn't relevant to points made that show the weaknesses of epidemiological theory and application.

Does the 230 year old history of vaccines have a proven track record according to death rates, rate of disability and rate of infection or not?

Yes and No.
Vaccines have a proven history of injuries and deaths along with a dubious history of false and/or exaggerated claims about its safety & efficacy.

Just when was it that Big Pharma decided to take over epidemiology and control it entirely for the sake of making money and injecting people with aluminum?

The biggest shift came in 1986 when vaccine makers were given immunity from civil lawsuits under the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act (NCVIA), The most recent was of course during COVID when the largest wealth transfer in history took place as governments in collusion with big tech, big pharma, and the MSM launched a coordinated worldwide campaign to control the public narrative and mandate vaccines at the taxpayers expense.

These are serious questions in the history of this discussion.

Sure they are. But you'd be further ahead to do some reading on your own. I have hundreds of papers and links — but if you're actually serious, it's probably better to start with a few books that are well sourced by authors who challenge your current understanding.

This feels a bit like discussions I have with people who don't take UFOs seriously — and have never read about Project Blue Book or actually talked with a UFO experiencer.

Trying to convince people that childhood vaccinations are bogus, unhealthy and cause disease is like saying Tylenol causes autism. It's reprehensible.

Saying "reprehensible" isn't valid counterpoint to the data.
It's an emotional response based on the assumption that you already know all the information ( when you don't ).

It also clouds the general discussion, by falsely dismissing these life threatening diseases; rallying against vaccines of all kinds serves no one.

That's a misleading opinion that doesn't address any specific evidence.

You keep talking about digging deeper, but then again there is this thing called science and how it progresses through universities to research environments to hospitals, and it's been doing that for hundreds of years. It's a real thing. It's not all controlled by big pharma.

A lot of the research is indeed funded, controlled, and manipulated by big pharma in collusion with mainstream media and governments. The evidence of that is self-evident by way of MSM advertising, and government purchases and regulation — behind the scenes the players are inside institutions and the publishers of medical journals.

You really have no idea the scale of this because you refuse to do the digging — and I'm not going to write the whole book with references for you here. All I can tell you is that government agencies, the MSM, institutions, and regulators are all in on it — along with everyday civilians who are invested in the associated industries and/or are paid to be vaccine influencers.

Had I not been censored here from the start, this would have all come out in small easy to digest bits and piece over the last six years. Expecting you to get it all at once isn't reasonable. All I can do is relay the basics of what I've learned.

Again — I started out where you are now. If I was so personally invested in me be right, wouldn't I have a mountain of evidence proving us both right? What point would there be in me going against every fiber of my critical thinking skills just to go along with people who have been marginalized and discriminated against?

The fact is that every time I went to verify a claim like the ones you keep making — I found valid and often better counterpoint that forced me to upgrade my thinking.

Discovery, and proper medical treatment has a proven track record of improvement and efficacy when it comes to life saving strategies. On the flip side the anti vaccination group presents nothing that clinical trials can verify or will be as effective as vaccines. One follows the other in this discussion..

All you're doing is repeating the same claims as the vaxxers over and over again without adequate consideration of the evidence to the contrary.

Strongly recommending people to be vaccinated saves lives on the whole. However, I don't think anyone should be forced to have anything injected into them if they don't want it. But if we are to keep the herd safe in schools, and in areas where people are immuno compromised, or because you need that profession to function by being disease free ì.e. military, health services, and other vital social services then vaccines come with that job. Many state that upon entering those professions. So you can't complain about it after the fact. You also can't be a liability to your service or the immuno compromised people you serve. So yes that may lead to suspension or dismissal. That is part of the history of science. That is why the military makes it a critical requirement.

All you're doing is repeating the same claims as the vaxxers over and over again without adequate consideration of the evidence to the contrary, while telling people what they should and shouldn't do. None of that addresses any of the evidence or concerns I've brought up in the past.

Consequently — this discussion isn't progressing. You seem to think that I haven't already considered all the points you've made literally hundreds of times already while looking into this over the last six years — but I have. My assessment is that either you've not considered all the same evidence as I have with a critical enough eye to cause you to change perspectives, or you're in with those actively engaging in the suppression of evidence that goes against the prevailing pro-vaxxer narrative — perhaps because of some biased material interest.

Either way — like you, I have other things to do, and I'm really not interested in arguing these points over and over again with people who are dismissive, haven't honestly considered the same evidence as I have, and have little or no valid counterpoint to refute it.

So from this point forward, my only response will be to link you to a suggested reading list. Once you've finished that, and I can see that you have valid comments — not simply cut and paste criticisms from the pro-vax reviewer gallery, we can carry on the discussion.

BTW: I completely understand if you don't have the time. It took the last person I had this out with three years to finally admit that he'd been overly influenced by the mainstream narrative. Billions has been spent indoctrinating the world into believing it, and we were all born into a world where it was considered normal and "The science is settled" etc. ( when it's not ) — it never has been.

 

[Randall]

​

Dear Vaxxers,

When you can provide valid counterpoint that demonstrates relevant errors in over 50% of the evidence presented in the books and links below, along with references that are readily available without subscription or cost — then we can talk. I was able to borrow most from the library and access the rest online without cost.

NOTE: Valid counterpoint does NOT include criticism of the sources or the character of the authors. It has to address specific points with logic and reason that invalidate the claims and comments made.

NOTE: This is only with respect to the safety and efficacy of vaccines. My position on other COVID 19 pandemic measures that include authoritarian violations of civil liberties will remain unchanged — regardless of how safe and effective any product might be — let alone pharmaceuticals.

Essential Reading

Covid Vaccine MHRA Report

​

LINKS:

A list of over 1000 studies skeptical of vaccines that include accounts of vaccine injuries and deaths.

Proving Your Vaccine Injury Case: Understanding the Burden of Proof - Siri & Glimstad LLP

Learn how to navigate the process of proving a vaccine injury and seek compensation effectively. Read our essential guide for practical steps and advice.

www.sirillp.com

The COVID Vaccination Scandal - Book Review: Fisman’s Fraud, The Rise of Canadian Hate Science, by Dr. Regina Watteel ($24.95), published by RainSong Books [2023] - REAL Women of Canada

During the COVID-19 pandemic, Canadians were fraudulently led to believe that scientific research findings [...]

realwomenofcanada.ca

​

 

[Burnt State]

Not relevant to the context of that exchange.

Been through that already — not again.

Call it whatever you want — it's not relevant to the issue.

Whether epidemiology exists isn't relevant to points made that show the weaknesses of epidemiological theory and application.

Yes and No.
Vaccines have a proven history of injuries and deaths along with a dubious history of false and/or exaggerated claims about its safety & efficacy.

The biggest shift came in 1986 when vaccine makers were given immunity from civil lawsuits under the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act (NCVIA), The most recent was of course during COVID when the largest wealth transfer in history took place as governments in collusion with big tech, big pharma, and the MSM launched a coordinated worldwide campaign to control the public narrative and mandate vaccines at the taxpayers expense.

Sure they are. But you'd be further ahead to do some reading on your own. I have hundreds of papers and links — but if you're actually serious, it's probably better to start with a few books that are well sourced by authors who challenge your current understanding.

This feels a bit like discussions I have with people who don't take UFOs seriously — and have never read about Project Blue Book or actually talked with a UFO experiencer.

Saying "reprehensible" isn't valid counterpoint to the data.
It's an emotional response based on the assumption that you already know all the information ( when you don't ).

That's a misleading opinion that doesn't address any specific evidence.

A lot of the research is indeed funded, controlled, and manipulated by big pharma in collusion with mainstream media and governments. The evidence of that is self-evident by way of MSM advertising, and government purchases and regulation — behind the scenes the players are inside institutions and the publishers of medical journals.

You really have no idea the scale of this because you refuse to do the digging — and I'm not going to write the whole book with references for you here. All I can tell you is that government agencies, the MSM, institutions, and regulators are all in on it — along with everyday civilians who are invested in the associated industries and/or are paid to be vaccine influencers.

Had I not been censored here from the start, this would have all come out in small easy to digest bits and piece over the last six years. Expecting you to get it all at once isn't reasonable. All I can do is relay the basics of what I've learned.

Again — I started out where you are now. If I was so personally invested in me be right, wouldn't I have a mountain of evidence proving us both right? What point would there be in me going against every fiber of my critical thinking skills just to go along with people who have been marginalized and discriminated against?

The fact is that every time I went to verify a claim like the ones you keep making — I found valid and often better counterpoint that forced me to upgrade my thinking.

All you're doing is repeating the same claims as the vaxxers over and over again without adequate consideration of the evidence to the contrary.

All you're doing is repeating the same claims as the vaxxers over and over again without adequate consideration of the evidence to the contrary, while telling people what they should and shouldn't do. None of that addresses any of the evidence or concerns I've brought up in the past.

Consequently — this discussion isn't progressing. You seem to think that I haven't already considered all the points you've made literally hundreds of times already while looking into this over the last six years — but I have. My assessment is that either you've not considered all the same evidence as I have with a critical enough eye to cause you to change perspectives, or you're in with those actively engaging in the suppression of evidence that goes against the prevailing pro-vaxxer narrative — perhaps because of some biased material interest.

Either way — like you, I have other things to do, and I'm really not interested in arguing these points over and over again with people who are dismissive, haven't honestly considered the same evidence as I have, and have little or no valid counterpoint to refute it.

So from this point forward, my only response will be to link you to a suggested reading list. Once you've finished that, and I can see that you have valid comments — not simply cut and paste criticisms from the pro-vax reviewer gallery, we can carry on the discussion.

BTW: I completely understand if you don't have the time. It took the last person I had this out with three years to finally admit that he'd been overly influenced by the mainstream narrative. Billions has been spent indoctrinating the world into believing it, and we were all born into a world where it was considered normal and "The science is settled" etc. ( when it's not ) — it never has been.

I sense someone running out the backdoor because these big questions can not be answered.

The history of epidemiology is not a bogus or a problematic narrative. Real people are dying every year because they don't have access to vaccines. Vaccines have been saving lives for 230 years. None of your evasions satisfactorily address how we manage deadly diseases.

None of your evasions address the actual history of science. You have yet to provide any alternatives for how to deal with diseases that kill little children every year. You have yet to address how a health care system would manage itself without vaccines with epidemics or the general spread of extremely contagious disease.

There's no contemporary book against vaccines I need to read that will better help me understand how you propose to deal with those ten very deadly diseases without the aid of vaccines.

Also, many of your evasions do not directly address the questions I'm posing. You are literally turning a blind eye to death and disease all across the world where vaccinations are not part of those societies.

You can pick on tiny little miniscule aspects of the discussion, and throw up supposed scientific validation, but you have yet, with all your great reading, and deep digging, to provide a single response to how we manage diseases that are lethal and killing babies and children right now.

 

[Burnt State]

​

Dear Vaxxers,

When you can provide valid counterpoint that demonstrates relevant errors in over 50% of the evidence presented in the books and links below, along with references that are readily available without subscription or cost — I will then be forced to seriously reconsider my position that vaccines in general have been promoted and marketed in false and/or misleading ways to the public at large.

NOTE: Valid counterpoint does NOT include criticism of the sources or the character of the authors. It has to address specific points with logic and reason that invalidate the claims and comments made.

Proving Your Vaccine Injury Case: Understanding the Burden of Proof - Siri & Glimstad LLP

Learn how to navigate the process of proving a vaccine injury and seek compensation effectively. Read our essential guide for practical steps and advice.

www.sirillp.com

The COVID Vaccination Scandal - Book Review: Fisman’s Fraud, The Rise of Canadian Hate Science, by Dr. Regina Watteel ($24.95), published by RainSong Books [2023] - REAL Women of Canada

During the COVID-19 pandemic, Canadians were fraudulently led to believe that scientific research findings [...]

realwomenofcanada.ca

LINKS: A list of over 1000 studies skeptical of vaccines that include accounts of vaccine injuries and deaths.

​

The fact is all of this material lacks scientific and clinical support. Cherry picked data, inaccurate conclusions, money making schemes, misrepresentations of data and flawed studies stand against all of this garbage and pretend science. Anti vaxxers claim these as truths. Science says repeatedly it's all junk.

If any of it had merit we would see it verified all across the planet in labs, universities, I dependent govt research etc. instead, these people are making millions and millions of dollars through lies - exactly what you claim big pharma is guilty of.

But , the fact remains, these diseases exist. And none of these folk have provided any real world alternatives to stopping these deadly diseases.