The 1945 Trinity UFO Story... Crashes

[George Wingfield]

No, not exactly. I think that Reme Baca must have become aware in, say, the 1980s when Stanton Friedman and others were promoting the Roswell Incident as a genuine case of alien visitation that the Trinity UFO Crash of August 1945, witnessed by him and Jose Padilla, might well have been something of extraterrestrial origin too. Baca told his story and produced the metal bracket he had removed from the UFO which caused various UFO researchers like Timothy Good and Paola Harris to contact him and pursue the story. I’ve little doubt that Baca subsequently embellished his account of seeing the 3 hombrecitos to include such details such as them looking like “greys”, “praying mantises”, having “big, bulgy eyes” and “needle-thin arms” simply because that’s what UFO folklore was claiming to be the case during the late 1980s and 1990s. I didn’t say the alien interpretation was the work of UFOlogists —Baca was telling interested UFOlogists just what they wanted to hear with the misguided intention of getting them to believe his story. In the case of Tom Carey it seems to have done the reverse!

 

[Trajanus]

No, not exactly. I think that Reme Baca must have become aware in, say, the 1980s when Stanton Friedman and others were promoting the Roswell Incident as a genuine case of alien visitation that the Trinity UFO Crash of August 1945, witnessed by him and Jose Padilla, might well have been something of extraterrestrial origin too.

Did they tell the crash story prior to the '80s? If so, who remembers them doing so? If memory serves the trinity case didn't become known until after 2000, one to two decades after Roswell came back to life so to speak.

I’ve little doubt that Baca subsequently embellished his account of seeing the 3 hombrecitos to include such details such as them looking like “greys”, “praying mantises”, having “big, bulgy eyes” and “needle-thin arms” simply because that’s what UFO folklore was claiming to be the case during the late 1980s and 1990s.

Sounds ridiculous. Mantid aliens aren't the same as greys.

I didn’t say the alien interpretation was the work of UFOlogists —Baca was telling interested UFOlogists just what they wanted to hear with the misguided intention of getting them to believe his story.

So he has no credibility. Just as he made up descriptions of beings he saw he could've easily made up the whole crash story. What is needed is some kind of documentation or independent witness testimony.

 

[George Wingfield]

I wonder just how many people are following this thread? Luckily there are still one or two —despite various UFO pundits saying it’s all nonsense and the two boys, Jose and Reme, in New Mexico in August 1945 are lying and that they made the whole thing up. I say there is a mass of evidence that some aerial vehicle did crash in the desert near the Trinity Nuclear Test Site and the two boys did see what they described as hombrecitos running about inside. From about 300 ft away all they could make out was that these non-human creatures apparently clad in “coveralls” were about 3 ft 6in tall and in great distress. The boys never went any closer that day. They went back home where they told Jose’s dad who clearly did not believe them. When Jose eventually did climb into the wreck some days later there was no sign of the hombrecitos but that’s not surprising as an Army recovery teams had by then started on a recovery operation that would remove almost all of the wreckage. As for the notion that a Freedom of Information request today would produce anything about this, one should remember anything to do with the Atomic Bomb and associated testing was considered Top Secret. Army veterans who did know anything knew they would be in big trouble if they said a word. (See attached article)

The creatures inside the wrecked craft were not humanoid aliens and there is a perfectly simple explanation for what they must have been. They were chimpanzees being flown as test animals in a CG-4A military glider which is what the US military would have had to use if it was to fly US troops into nuclear battle zones in Japan. The test was a partial success in that the animals survived the crash landing. Luckily the US never had to fly troops in to invade Japan in 1945 as a surrender was agreed within a few days of the Trinity UFO incident.
I seriously doubt whether many of the critics of Trinity: The Best-Kept Secret by Jacques Vallée and Paola Harris have actually read the book like me. The skeptics say the whole story must be false and there never was a “UFO” crash and the believers say there is no other explanation for this extraordinary crash and the hombrecitos which the boys saw. I say they are both wrong! Jacques Vallée prefers to go with the alien UFO explanation for the time being.
It is quite clear the US Army realized once the first Atomic Bomb had been successfully detonated on July 16th 1945 that there would be a very possible requirement to fly US troops into Japan if there was no surrender. The only available way of doing this would be to use military gliders and for any chance of success these would have to crash land in war-zones that had just been flattened with atomic bombs.
The US Army was soon aware of the severe effects of atomic bombs on soldiers in close proximity to such explosions and protective clothing, welders goggles and other measures would be needed. See attached article ‘US Soldiers Used as Nuclear Guinea Pigs’. Tests were also needed of the CG-4A glider in a nuclear context and troops in such a glider would probably need to be inside a special windowless air-tight compartment that would protect them from the flash and heat surge of the atomic bomb. Such a test flight and landing would be very dangerous even without nuclear explosions outside and the chances of survival were probably considered unacceptably low.
For this reason, one suspects that senior Army officers at Alamogordo AAF ordered chimpanzees for the test and that may have been the first time they were used at the base. The unfortunate chimps would not have required any special training and were probably just locked in the special compartment in the CG-4A glider at the start of their flight. The partial success of the flight may well have encouraged Alamogordo AAF to order a further 65 chimpanzees for Aero-medical research there just a few years later.

 

[Trajanus]

….despite various UFO pundits saying it’s all nonsense and the two boys, Jose and Reme, in New Mexico in August 1945 are lying and that they made the whole thing up.

What's hard to believe about that? Even you admit they lied about alien features so they lack credibility. Randle dumped a few witnesses because they embellished their accounts or made things up.

I say there is a mass of evidence that some aerial vehicle did crash in the desert near the Trinity Nuclear Test Site and the two boys did see what they described as hombrecitos running about inside. From about 300 ft away all they could make out was that these non-human creatures apparently clad in “coveralls” were about 3 ft 6in tall and in great distress.

Give the "mass of evidence" where is corroboration for any of this? Did any soldier, his kid or wife later say they recovered chimps? Is there a diary entry about this? Or any witness testimony besides the two boys? The whole "chimp" thing is totally uncorroborated speculation based on the testimony of liars.
So what if some wreckage was found. You can find wreckage in a lot of places.

They went back home where they told Jose’s dad who clearly did not believe them.

Did the old man later say his son told him the story?

When Jose eventually did climb into the wreck some days later there was no sign of the hombrecitos but that’s not surprising as an Army recovery teams had by then started on a recovery operation that would remove almost all of the wreckage.

Why was he allowed there if recovery was underway?? And why did the boys not come closer when they "saw" the "hombrecitos"?? Why did they wait?

As for the notion that a Freedom of Information request today would produce anything about this, one should remember anything to do with the Atomic Bomb and associated testing was considered Top Secret.

At the time but '45 is ancient history. Why would something like this be highly classified to this day?? It's not like they sacrificed soldiers or other humans.

The only available way of doing this would be to use military gliders and for any chance of success these would have to crash land in war-zones that had just been flattened with atomic bombs.

In Normandy they used gliders en masse without "flattening" by a-bombs.

The partial success of the flight may well have encouraged Alamogordo AAF to order a further 65 chimpanzees for Aero-medical research there just a few years later.

A "further" 65? So there's documentation the 65 weren't the first? We know about them why not the putative chimps of '45??

 

[Gene Steinberg]

I wonder just how many people are following this thread?

Most people don't participate as they used to. Too many competing social network platforms. But they are reading these messages nonetheless.

 

[George Wingfield]

Atomic Veterans were silenced for 50 years

Everyone who has any interest in the story of the crash of a “UFO” with three hombrecitos on board it in August 1945 and the truth or otherwise of the account given by Reme Baca and Jose Padilla (who at the time were 7 & 9) should watch this short video documentary ‘Atomic Veterans were Silenced for 50 Years. Now, They’re Talking’ (2019) should watch this:-

Atomic Veterans Were Silenced for 50 Years. Now, They’re Talking.

Some of the last surviving soldiers exposed to nuclear-bomb tests share their unfathomable experiences.

www.theatlantic.com

Critics of the suggestion that the hombrecitos seen in the crashed “UFO” were in fact lab test chimpanzees from Alamogordo AAF seem totally unaware of the highly secretive military program associated with the Atomic Bomb tests to find out their effects on Army soldiers who were in trenches just a mile or two from ground zero. Many were severely injured and several died as a result of close exposure to atomic detonations. Those who survived were sworn to absolute secrecy. Following the successful Trinity Atomic Bomb test of July 16th 1945, further atomic bomb tests were mostly carried out at the Nevada Test Site where there were 928 further nuclear explosions (828 underground) which finally ended in 1992.

No wonder that the military intended to use expendable lab test animals such as chimpanzees in some of the associated testing soon after that first successful detonation at the Trinity Test Site. Moreover the bald declaration that no chimpanzees were used in testing at Alamogordo/Holloman until the early 1950s is likely not true. In 1950 we know that Holloman AFB ordered 65 chimps for such aero-medical test purposes. It is highly unlikely the USAAF/USAF aero-medical scientists at Alamogordo had no previous experience of keeping and using chimpanzees for experimentation if they were suddenly to order up what amounted to a whole zoo full!

The suggestion that a FOIA request to the government today would yield evidence about the Trinity “UFO” crash of August 1945 is similarly naîve. Have any such FOIA requests about anything military from that era ever revealed previously unknown information about what were highly secretive government projects? Even 35 years on, did the US government disclose what branch of the military was responsible for the 1980 Cash-Landrum UFO Incident? Of course not! They denied that the big “UFO” and the many military helicopters that accompanied it were anything to do with them. That denial, I suggest, was categorically false!

It appears that very few critics of Trinity: The Best-Kept Secret have actually read the book. Their total rejection of the 1945 Trinity UFO crash/retrieval scenario appears to be based solely on Tom Carey’s recorded interview with Reme Baca. That indeed contained much in the way of spurious descriptions of the hombrecitos as looking like “greys”, preying mantises, or fire-ants, which were no doubt embellishments that Baca hoped would get Carey, a Roswell true-believer, to buy his story. It didn’t work but that didn’t mean the story of seeing the three hombrecitos was just a hoax like the ridiculous Roswell Slides hoax which had fooled him.

Besides Baca, who died several years ago, there was also Jose Padilla who watched the hombrecitos in the crashed craft from about 300 feet away. Jose Padilla is still alive today, aged 87, and has talked at length with Jacques Vallée. He recalls watching the hombrecitosrunning back and forth in the wrecked craft but merely says they looked like little men rather than like kids. Although, from the distance away at which those two kids were standing, they could see that they were wearing “uniforms” or “coveralls” what really struck them was they appeared to be roughly the same height as them, roughly between 3 ft and 4 ft tall.

Apart from Padilla and Baca’s witnessing the hombrecitos in the crashed craft there is plenty of evidence at the site of the crash that some aircraft did crash land there in August 1945. There is also the evidence of Lt. Col. Brophy from Alamogordo AAF who flew an airplane from there over the Trinity site soon after the crash to ascertain that the ‘Marconi’ radio tower had been wrecked by the so-called UFO and also where this military glider’s wreckage had fallen.

There is also little doubt that a team of Army soldiers did arrive to remove the wreck a few days later and they took several days to do so in very rough terrain. The soldiers who were mostly rookies didn’t do a very good job and stashed many of the metal fragments in a crevice rather than taking them back to Alamogordo. The fate of the three hombrecitos is unknown but it’s very possible their bodies were buried at the site. It is likely the soldiers who carried out the clean-up and recovery operation knew nothing about the true purpose of this military glider’s flight.

Hopefully critics of Vallée will now concede that a US military aircraft did indeed crash-land at the Trinity site in August 1945 —though I don’t expect many of them to accept that the hombrecitos were chimpanzees. The notion these were little grey aliens in an extraterrestrial UFO is clearly nonsense but I’m afraid that most UFO pundits —both the skeptics and the UFO/alien true believers—stick rigidly to whatever theories they may have already propounded and they are NEVER prepared to admit that they could possibly have been wrong!

 

[Trajanus]

The suggestion that a FOIA request to the government today would yield evidence about the Trinity “UFO” crash of August 1945 is similarly naîve.

I don't buy that. An event involving aliens (like cash landrum) would still be top secret but chimps, from that long ago?? That wouldn't be such a big deal; it didn't involve sacrificing humans. We would've heard about use of chimps in '45--just like in '50-- years ago. Btw if they needed 65 chimps they would've ordered the "zoofull" and acquired experience in handling them or hired those who had it.

Their total rejection of the 1945 Trinity UFO crash/retrieval scenario appears to be based solely on Tom Carey’s recorded interview with Reme Baca. That indeed contained much in the way of spurious descriptions of the hombrecitos as looking like “greys”, preying mantises, or fire-ants, which were no doubt embellishments that Baca hoped would get Carey, a Roswell true-believer, to buy his story. It didn’t work but that didn’t mean the story of seeing the three hombrecitos was just a hoax like the ridiculous Roswell Slides hoax which had fooled him.

Baca did not have to lie. He could've just mentioned "little men." Baca obviously lied so he has no credibility. Randle, btw, dismissed certain witnesses because of embellishments in their accounts. Same should go for baca.

Besides Baca, who died several years ago, there was also Jose Padilla who watched the hombrecitos in the crashed craft from about 300 feet away. Jose Padilla is still alive today, aged 87, and has talked at length with Jacques Vallée. He recalls watching the hombrecitosrunning back and forth in the wrecked craft but merely says they looked like little men rather than like kids.

If he could tell the difference between men and kids why not chimps and humans? Why didn't he mention them being hairy or at least dark in appearance, at that distance?

There is also little doubt that a team of Army soldiers did arrive to remove the wreck a few days later and they took several days to do so in very rough terrain.

So what, there have been crashes all over.

The notion these were little grey aliens in an extraterrestrial UFO is clearly nonsense but I’m afraid that most UFO pundits —both the skeptics and the UFO/alien true believers—stick rigidly to whatever theories they may have already propounded and they are NEVER prepared to admit that they could possibly have been wrong!

I think they just made it up. I don't believe it was a ET event, just a fabrication. The "evidence" for chimps in '45 just isn't good enough.