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Special Paracast Episode: ET Hypothesis Debate

The possibility does exist that previous species have cleaned up or have been cleaned up by older ET's for them as per Brins uplift scenario

The civilization of the Five Galaxies has several "Institutes", which are bureaucracies that specify how species deal with each other and the uplift process. One of the most significant of these is the Library Institute, the repository of all knowledge. Humanity prides itself on using the Library as little as possible. For instance, instead of drawing upon the highly refined starship designs available in the Library, humanity tends to develop its own (generally vastly inferior) vessels. Humans generally feel that this is a way to exercise their own independence and creativity, and it occasionally allows them to find solutions to problems which surprise more powerful races.


The Institute of Migration determines what planets can be colonized and under what environmental restrictions, primarily to ensure that suitable races can still evolve for later uplift. The Institute also ensures the separation of the hydrogen-breathing and oxygen-breathing orders of sentient life. Other intergalactic institutes regulate the uplift of sentient species, navigation, warfare, etc. Bureaucrats are recruited from all races but are expected to put the interests of their bureau before that of their race and maintain strict neutrality; however, this does not always happen.


In Brins hypothetical universe considerable resources are thrown at planetary cleanup once the evolved species becomes space faring. (It should be noted he is also a space scientist as well as writer)

He graduated from the California Institute of Technology with a Bachelor of Science in astrophysics, in 1973.[8] At the University of California, San Diego, he earned a Master of Science in applied physics in 1978 and a Doctor of Philosophy degree in space science in 1981.
Brin is a 2010 fellow of the Institute for Ethics and Emerging Technologies.[9] He helped establish the Arthur C. Clarke Center for Human Imagination (UCSD). He serves on the advisory board of NASA's Innovative and Advanced Concepts group and frequently does futurist consulting for corporations and government agencies.


Brin consults and speaks for a wide variety of groups interested in the future, ranging from Defense Department agencies and the CIA to Procter & Gamble, SAP, Google and other major corporations. He has also been a participant in discussions at the Philanthropy Roundtable and other groups seeking innovative problem solving approaches.

Brin has a very active side career in public speaking and consultation. He appears frequently on science or future related television shows such as "The Universe," "Life After People," "Alien Encounters," "Worlds of Tomorrow," and many others.

Planetary biomes are considered to be valuable and are managed accordingly, so they can serve as sentience hatcherys multiple times. A single planet can over a massive timescale serve to nurture many sentient species none of which are aware of the previous tenants for good reason.

All fine and well except it wouldn’t work.

The problem, you see, is life. Life absorbes shit. Metabolism is a bitch.

Any industrial contaminants would be recorded in trees, plankton, ice cores with bacteria - all kinds of places.

There isn’t any industrial contaminants pre humans elsewhere. It’s the kind of things whole areas of science have looked into - prehistory atmosphere makeup, carbon ratios, all kinds of things.

And if the Yilane were here, we could have found those cool whale boat things in the fossil record.
 
While OOPARTS are not proof, they do open the door to the possibility

17 Out-of-Place Artifacts Said to Suggest High-Tech Prehistoric Civilizations Existed

The Mystery of OOParts

Nowadays, finding a strange artifact in coal is a relatively frequent occurrence. The first discovery of this sort was made in 1851 when the workers in one of the Massachusetts mines extracted a zinc silver-incrusted vase from a block of unmined coal which dated all the way back to the Cambrian era which was approximately 500 million years ago. Sixty one years later, American scientists from Oklahoma discovered an iron pot which was pressed into a piece of coal aged 312 million years old. Then, in 1974, an aluminum assembly part of unknown origin was found in a sandstone quarry in Romania. Reminiscent of a hammer or a support leg of a spacecraft “Apollo”, the piece dated back to the Jurassic era and could not have been manufactured by a human. All of these discoveries not only puzzled the experts but also undermined the most fundamental doctrines of modern science.
Read more: 300-million-year-old UFO tooth-wheel found in Russian city of Vladivostok
 
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Humans and aliens may share the same DNA which could be part of a 'universal structure', according to researchers.

The building blocks of life exist in low temperatures and low pressure meaning they are far more likely to flourish than if they were more complex.
The theory was put forward by Ralph Pudritz of McMaster University in Hamilton, Ontario who built on existing research into amino acids.

In total there are 20 standard such chemicals, which contain the DNA from which human life developed.

Researchers have already synthesized the 10 which are thought to have existed millions of years ago - and also discovered these are most likely to be found on meteorites too.


Purditz said: 'This may implicate a universal structure of the first genetic codes anywhere...

'There's a theory that they could be made in the warm interiors of large-enough meteorite'.
He added: 'Thermodynamics is fundamental.
It must hold through all points of the universe. If you can show there are certain frequencies that fall in a natural way like this, there is an implied universality.
'It has to be tested, but it seems to make a lot of sense.'



Read more: Why aliens might look like you: DNA could be a 'universal constant' - making humans and ET closer to 'cousins' | Daily Mail Online

His point on thermodynamics is a good one, it is likely to hold through the entire universe, the model of the universe does contain constants. And its those constants that increase the chances that whet we see here could happen elsewhere too.

There was a bitchin' episode of TNG with that as it's premise.
 
While OOPARTS are not proof, they do open the door to the possibility

17 Out-of-Place Artifacts Said to Suggest High-Tech Prehistoric Civilizations Existed

It's a big jump from grape juice batteries probably used for ancient electroplating (we have found electroplated stuff, too) to spaceships.

And there's a whole lotta stuff that's problematic in that list. The Dendara image probably wasn't a light bulb, for example:
The view of Egyptologists is that the relief is a mythological depiction of a djed pillar and a lotus flower, spawning a snake within, representing aspects of Egyptian mythology.[1][2] The Djed pillar is a symbol of stability which is also interpreted as the backbone of the god Osiris. In the carvings the four horizontal lines forming the capital of the djed are supplemented by human arms stretching out, as if the djed were a backbone. The arms hold up the snake within the lotus flower. The snakes coming from the lotus symbolize fertility, linked to the annual Nile flood.[2]
Dendera light - Wikipedia

And if they had light bulbs, why have lamp burn marks inside ancient Egyptian sites?

I'm all for Hancock-esque ancient civilizations that we've never heard of. Like Golbeki Tepi.

But I can't see them being spacefaring.
 
(PS I know about the electroplating stuff after almost getting kicked out of university because I was electroplating random objects with gold or silver for girls. Apparently that's stealing. I came across the 'bagdad battery' and what it may have been used for and replicated the results with a 9V battery. They took away my keys to the chem lab and I got a reprimand).

(PPS It was worth it though).
 
Hi Mike,

Fellow Aussie here. I grew up on the NSW Central Coast and now just up the road in Lake Macquarie. I should say, The Mysterious Central Coast, because around 92-94 there were some very strange things going on. The most famous has already been written about, however, another took place during this time around May-July (I think 92/93) which received local coverage on radio. This involved a sighting by two police officers late at night while in a patrol car parked overlooking the Brisbane Waters (a lake). A friend of mine also claims to of had a late afternoon daylight sighting in 1987 with another friend while playing in a local park called Alan Davidson oval. The park was full of people walking their dogs, playing cricket, and children hanging out. They saw a large cigar-shaped craft that hovered around 300 meters above treetops. It was visible for around 25-30 mins...but I digress.

Regarding the show:

I don't think the ETH is mutually exclusive to the Other Tenants in The Building Theory (OTTBT) Chris has talked about. Do they come here and use another dimension (String, M, and Super-String Theory) to travel as the laws of physics in that other dimension permit faster travel over large distances. A civilization thousands of years more advanced would probably have solved the problems required to make this happen. Given the wide variety of unusual humanoids seen it might not be ridiculous to also posit that something else lives here but in one of these other dimensions String Theory suggests exists. What is to say OTTBs are here but we can't see them or interact with them and their world because they, and their world, exists beyond the visible light spectrum?

I think we need to guard ourselves against assuming anything in either direction. We need more hard evidence. The only issue here is: how do we measure something in another dimension, parallel world, or something even weirder. Does our technology need to catch-up just so we can even discover and investigate what lies beyond our 3-dimensional world?

Take this for example: we can't see the air we breathe. We can't see oxygen, nitrogen, and many of the gases we know to exist. There is definitely something worth investigating here. We just need the right tools and technology to detect and explore further.

Great show! Thank you to all involved.

Expanding on some ideas.

Always a popular theory is that Greys evolved from a creature similar to our dolphin. Theoretically it does make a lot of sense and out of all the ideas floating around about Greys this one is by far the most plausable. The most noticeable thing about Greys is their grey skin (hence the name, Grey Alien) and is very similar to that of a dolphin. Without an actual sample of a Grey’s skin this would impossible to verify, but there is more evidence to support the dolphin idea than just skin colour. The eyes of the Grey are always reported as big and with a black “eye shield” covering the pupil. On Earth, many water-based creatures evolve these to deal with low light levels found in the ocean, which would suggest Greys evolved in a low level light environment. Another factor that suggests Greys come from Dolphin-like creatures is their very large heads. The size and shape of the cranium infer that Greys have an enlarged rear (occipital) and frontal lobe, a feature that is common in dolphins. During many abduction cases, victims often report that they were unable to move when a Grey looked in their direction, but as soon as the Grey looked away they regained physical control. Certain species of dolphin can disable small fish using sonar, and marine biologists have found that these waves can cause significant changes at cellular level. With many years evolution, it is not that unbelievable that Greys have adapted this technique from an existing skill they gained from millions of years of evolution.

The Dolphin started out like all of us in the ocean, then it became a land mammal, then it went back to the ocean. Its a staggering thing to contemplate on the timescale. But whats to say they all went back to the ocean ? perhaps some did, and some remained. the inland offshoot of the species that just as the land animal became a sea animal once again evolved on a separate path to become the greys ?

And of course.

Troodon Sapiens - Dinosauroid Sculpture by Dale Russell and Ron Seguin, 1982 - Canadian Museum of Nature, Ottawa, Canada

Pure speculation, but whats to say a planet only spawns one sentient species, Perhaps it does so multiple times. Who knows perhaps in 10,000 years or so the sentient Ape descendants will follow the path of their fellow terrestrial sophonts and step aside and let the next species have the space it needs to climb the ladder.
Keeping ourselves as hidden as possible might be our self imposed penance for the damage and extinction we caused in our messy birth as star farers.

None of which negates the mathmatical likelyhood of the ETH, just the reverse, if thats the model here its likely the same elsewhere. a single life friendly biosphere spawning multiple space faring societys over a large timescale.

Its a fascinating universe, nothing has given me personally greater joy than to speculate on what it holds, and to share that speculation with like minded friends.

Thanks again for an enjoyable discussion ppl.
 
Fantastic episode guys ! we definitely need more of this, as part of "The Military Industrial Complex" i can tell you from experience that you get "Boffins" who are highly intelligent but lack common sense so all the mistakes that get made are due to not having an equal balance of both intellect and common sense. and its all about being "READ ON" to the Particular OP that your on.
 
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I know its 11 minutes, but if we are going to use the the absence of evidence quote it must be watched to differentiate between absence of evidence and negative evidence

Fabulous post explaining Rees' Maxim. I've heard skeptics try to dismiss it's validity a number of times. This exposé sets things in their proper perspective. Great find!
 
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I think that the propulsion mechanism must be simpler than our best current theoretical model requires (huge positive and negative energy densities that are almost inconceivably beyond our current capabilities), however, it also appears to be a fundamental leap forward. So we're missing the solution to that paradox, and we may not be able to solve it until we have a quantum theory of gravity, or until we make some other fundamental theoretical breakthrough.

Because it's not a matter of simply achieving higher speeds, like the progression from a horse-drawn chariot to a modern train: these puppies are completely defying inertia and Newton's third law of motion - and that requires an altogether new physical principle that remains completely beyond our technological experience - presumably, metric engineering.

And btw - I really enjoy your consistently and relentlessly rational posts, mike.

I think that is what distinguished this show from many others - the level of rationality went beyond what people normally expect of the UFO crowd. I don't mean that to degrade people. Fact is people who are interested in the field - regardless of how rationally they approach things they are pilloried for their interest.
 
This is a contradiction though.
If we agree the photo is of "something real" (but unidentified), then you cant simply transition to there isn't anything. Its one or the other it cant be both in that context.

You give very good analysis Mike..

As a fellow Aussie it would be great to catch-up with you one day champion. Over Skype maybe? I had started to put together material for an eBook on the weird things that go on in our neck of the woods. The Blue Mountains and Central Coast are not short of unusual happenings. Have you read any of Rex Gilroy's work?
 
While OOPARTS are not proof, they do open the door to the possibility

17 Out-of-Place Artifacts Said to Suggest High-Tech Prehistoric Civilizations Existed

The Mystery of OOParts

Nowadays, finding a strange artifact in coal is a relatively frequent occurrence. The first discovery of this sort was made in 1851 when the workers in one of the Massachusetts mines extracted a zinc silver-incrusted vase from a block of unmined coal which dated all the way back to the Cambrian era which was approximately 500 million years ago. Sixty one years later, American scientists from Oklahoma discovered an iron pot which was pressed into a piece of coal aged 312 million years old. Then, in 1974, an aluminum assembly part of unknown origin was found in a sandstone quarry in Romania. Reminiscent of a hammer or a support leg of a spacecraft “Apollo”, the piece dated back to the Jurassic era and could not have been manufactured by a human. All of these discoveries not only puzzled the experts but also undermined the most fundamental doctrines of modern science.
Read more: 300-million-year-old UFO tooth-wheel found in Russian city of Vladivostok

I used to think OOPArts were serious evidence until I tried getting verification from independent sources that could reasonably prove their authenticity, and when I did that, I started running into all sorts of skeptical counterpoint, a lot of which made perfect sense, and no substantial verification. In other words, none of these finds were unexplainable in some mundane terms. Maybe there have been more I haven't looked into since I last looked, but I'd think that if something truly amazing had been discovered and verified, then we'd be hearing a lot more about it, including some sort of dating of the object itself rather than just the surrounding material, and there'd be a lot more than single odd artifacts. Along with things like a vase, we'd expect to find things like the table it sat on, the building it was in, the community around it, along with thousands more artifacts near the find that conclusively proves the time and date.
 
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