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Solid light beams (Bill Chalker, Michael Swords, and Ray Stanford)

Discussion in 'The UFO Forum' started by Constance, Mar 30, 2015.



  1. Constance

    Constance Paranormal Adept

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    Excellent post, among so many from you, Heidi. Everyone interested in ufos should read your extracts from the site you linked (linked again below) and follow up by reading the material at all the links Dimitris Hatzopoulos provides. That reading should include reading the sources named in the footnotes to Hal Puthoff's review of Paul Hill's book posted at Hatzopoulos's site and of course include the whole of Hill's book. There are other books available concerning how physical scientists have interpreted the manifest physical characteristics of obviously physical ufos, including Chris Lambright's X-Descending.

    Not to learn from these sources is to approach naively -- indeed with wilfull ignorance -- the discussion of the questions 'what are ufos?' and 'what do their expertly witnessed visible operations demonstrate in terms of their physicality and their manipulations of physics as our species understands physics?'.

    http://www.hyper.net/ufo/physics.html

     
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  2. Constance

    Constance Paranormal Adept

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    Paul Hill's book identifies a 'ufo pattern' comprising a lengthy list of ufo phenomena witnesssed in his own sightings, those of his colleagues at NASA, and of course many reported in the data accumulated by several generations of civilian ufo researchers and organizations.

    Unconventional Flying Objects: A Former NASA Scientist Explains How UFOs Really Work: Paul R. Hill, Robert Wood, Don Donderi: 9781571747136: Amazon.com: Books

    The first review at amazon suffices for a good characterization of the book and includes a number of extracts. See the numerous samples from the book provided at the amazon link.
     
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  3. mike

    mike Paranormal Adept

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  4. Heidi Lemmer

    Heidi Lemmer Paranormal Adept

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    This reminds me of your own story Burnt: ? "In an effort to examine the force-field propulsion hypothesis yet further, Hill analyzed a number of cases involving near-field interactions with an apparent craft in which some form of force was in evidence. These include examples in which a person or vehicle was affected, tree branches were parted or broken, roof tiles were dislodged, objects were deflected and ground or water were disturbed. Under close analysis the subtleties of these interactions combine to point unequivocally to a repulsive force field surrounding the craft, while discriminating against propulsion mechanisms involving jet action, pure electric or magnetic effects, or the emission of energetic particles or radiation (although the latter may accompany the propulsive mechanism as a secondary effect)." From above on Paul Hill's observations.
     
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  5. Heidi Lemmer

    Heidi Lemmer Paranormal Adept

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    Here's a blog with Rich Reynolds on a serious note, lol. UFO Conjecture(s): Solid light and the Burkes Flat UFO of 1966


    Date: April 4th, 1966

    Location: Burkes Flat, Victoria, Australia

    At about 8:00 p.m., Ron Sullivan, was travelling on a straight sealed section of the Dunolly-St.Arnaud road, near Bourkes Flat, in central country Victoria. Ahead in a pasture off to his right, Sullivan observed an unusual light. He first took it to be a tractor, engaged in night plowing, but as he drew closer, Sullivan began to see a most unusual light display, located at ground level. The following things happened quickly as he drew closer to the scene, and then passed it. He was paying attention to both the light display in the pasture on his right and the road when he observed the following sequence of light display in the strange phenomenon in the pasture.

    Initially, as he approached, Sullivan saw a white phosphorous type of light on the ground that appeared to be about 15' in diameter. It opened up and there was another white oval on top of it, about 30' in height, coming down making the shape of a cone, with a 15' bottom diameter and 20' top diameter. And in that cone were tubes of colored lights, all the lights as you see as you look through the spectrum, all the colors of the rainbow red, blue, indigo & purple. Travelling up and down, or they seem to be, from the small oval to the bigger oval at the top. They were going up and down in shafts. Then gradually the top seemed to come to meet the bottom, They seemed to close in, making a transition of one light oval, similar to first view, everything then just disappeared. The last thing Sullivan saw of the light display was just a spot on the ground, a light spot, become smaller and smaller, to nothing. Meanwhile, as he was driving, he observed that his car headlight beams suddenly appeared to be pointing in a direction off to the right in the direction of the strange light display and also seemed to be, bending back on an axis with the object in the pasture. As he got closer, the angle of bending of his cars headlight beams became more acute.
    [​IMG]
    He thought his car must have been heading off the road to the right, and immediately compensated by turning it to the left. He found he was now heading directly towards a tree on the left hand side of the road. He turned the car to the right to regain the direction of travel along the straight section of road, thoroughly confused and leaving behind the display in the pasture.

    He had his car lights checked and found them to be working properly. Later in Maryborough he found that a young man from Carnegie, Gary Taylor, was killed in a car accident at Burkes Flat on the night of April 6th, two nights later. Sullivan reported his experience to police. At the accident site, it was determined that Taylors car had collided with the same tree that Sullivan almost collided with 2 nights earlier. Directly opposite the tree in the pasture, about 70 yards from the roadway, coincident with where Sullivan saw the strange light display, a shallow depression was found in the plowed earth. It was a little over 3' in diameter and only a few inches in depth. The depression was cleanly scooped out of the sandy soil with no apparent debris around it. There were no human or animal tracks around the area. The property owner indicated the depression had not been there when he had finished plowing. There appeared to be no explanation for the depression or the light display."

    What's interesting is that the car's headlights bend towards the craft lights.
     
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  6. Heidi Lemmer

    Heidi Lemmer Paranormal Adept

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  7. Burnt State

    Burnt State Paranormal Adept

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    Can I share a feature that makes me feel like these collected stories remind me of my own story? I've been thinking a bit about the nature of discontinuous reality. There are three different stories collected here: one of my big faves - Westall, the rainbow and bending headlights and the death. I would also throw in a fourth incident - the ground scoop.

    Now as I've been deconstructing my own story I'm having to ask just how well can I connect the sighting with the burn marks the following spring? I mean sure there's a direct bearing with my narrative and it is continuous with it, but can I validate it? Did I see the effects on the shingles and the burnt tree that night - no I did not.

    So, I'm curious to know just what evidence there is to connect these four entirely isolated incidents aside from the narrative that is being rewritten by us, by the participants, ufologists etc.? Are these not entirely disconnected events being connected together as some kind of interrelated, even causal, series of incidents.
     
  8. Heidi Lemmer

    Heidi Lemmer Paranormal Adept

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    What your left with on a story is the boldest of the facts. All the filler is either common sense/critical thinking or imagination/emotion. The best cases leave little filler. For your own personal story I think the only evidence these many years later would be of mass sightings at the time you saw your craft, but even then there's little left to go on. But just like a murder case you may find replication to the type of killing in a neighboring town and fairly connect dots. So also with craft description and light beams, etc. What I think is fascinating on these cases is that when you step back and look at the descriptions of the light beams, the way the craft turns sideways to fly away, the description of three black circles under the craft indicating a power source area, etc...you start to see a collection very much interrelated. That, for me, lends credibility. Obviously in the above cases, we'll never know why that guy died in that same spot, hell, could've been a squirrel running in the road.:confused:
    Actually, I think I should have read that better, lol, pays not to be interrupted when replying, sorry. Hill's cases I would need to see what those cases were. I suspect I need to buy the book,lol. But I will say, since listening to hours of Stanford, I'm seeing where's there's tons of similarities in the energy the craft displays, both in light beams and in the energy around the craft. So I'm guessing Hill went along those lines.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2015
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  9. Burnt State

    Burnt State Paranormal Adept

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    Hill, like Stanford, is theorizing based on selections of evidence. It would be just as easy to collect "evidence" of UFO's in supposed photos and witness evidence that runs contrary to both theory sets. While both offer unique and personalized visions of how UFO's operate they remain theories, even thought experiments, Hill's being a much better educated set of interpretations. It's hard to make a general theory that could answer anything more than a mere subset of UFO events.

    With all due respect to Chris, what makes Stanford improbable IMHO is the sheer accumulated mass of supposedly personally captured photographic evidence. What other examples do we have of this outside of Walters and Meier, and look at where they currently stand? If these are rare events at best how is it possible for him to accumulate so many materials?

    Hill offers something different, specifically in that there's a substantial posthumous publication to back up his ideas. If only there were more like him that brought forward their own detailed science to the task so that we could hold a series of theories together and use these to make better progress. Hill's book is one of few examinations of the physics of the UFO and just how out of date now are his own ideas? Hill was an interesting character in the history of aerodynamics using his long standing UFO interests to contribute to lunar landers and building better bombs.

    He was also a very strong proponent of psi skills and the ETH. But there are so many pieces of the puzzle that point against the ETH that his own text now stands only as a possible interpretation of some impossible crafts. For his own theories to ring true we are faced with the incredible improbability of multitudes of races and species probing a wide array of humans and collecting endless amounts of soil samples.
     
  10. Heidi Lemmer

    Heidi Lemmer Paranormal Adept

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    Of course these are "just" theories. It's one peg on the board, a starting place from one aspect of the phenomena. We won't wake up tomorrow having solved the riddle. I think the point of this thread is to gain a knowledge on what is being worked on with the data collections so far. It's been asked often here and elsewhere, what's being done with the data so far? I found this article http://pesn.com/2008/02/24/9500473_UFO_Propulsion_books/ the other day, kinda cracked me up. This guy looked through all patents on UFO's and found 260 on propulsion alone. This tells me that what I already know, scientist won't openly look at this phenomena, but people will. This isn't a first for science to be last:( Granted, I haven't a clue on how good these patents are.
    The truth is I'm not really that interested in the folklore of Ufology, the study of the mind in relation to it's ability to comprehend what it see's versus what it "thinks" it sees. I do believe there is a percentage that hallucinate or mistake the identity but I'm not the person receiving those calls so I rely on their stats. At least in the form of using this as a starting point. I don't think it's incumbent on those of us who follow this subject to be masters of all the elements versus selective in a few aspects. Reminds me of the author, Frank Fushino whose mission is to place UFO's and Pilots in their exact locations both by official records and newspapers and other reporting groups like MUFON. He's not recording abductions or studying light beams but his work is fascinating and fruitful it turns out. But as an example, do I disregard his work because I haven't read a detailed exam of each witness? Some people would, yes. But for me it might best be explained as a numbers game. Kind of like reading of a mass sighting, dozens of witnesses. If science wants to be busy playing it safe then all we have is each other. But so to, if science is willing to stick their bony necks out there and play with ideas based off perceived ideas they see in film, god bless their merry little selves. An example is Myrabo going from an acorn shaped craft to a disk shaped craft. And as I previously stated, the tilting of the disk up on end as it fly's. That's an inspiration to me to capture this stuff for that reason alone. LOL, Youtube can play with themselves, I want the science! I'm still trying to type in different search questions to see if there's anything out there we might find fun to look at.:)
    Btw, these theories have a foundation on what we think people are seeing and what we think are in photos and videos. From there we go. Not all that different from knowing we breathe but not knowing what we breathed. Eventually we found out.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2015
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  11. Heidi Lemmer

    Heidi Lemmer Paranormal Adept

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  12. Burnt State

    Burnt State Paranormal Adept

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    I understand your position and we know that it would be great for science to do science in this field, and certainly these cases where some precision is being applied to singular events we then can see some theories developing. I also understand how Ufology has broken itself into camps: abductees & contactees, scientific inquiry and physical evidence, sociology and witness study, ancient aliens etc. The constant in all three though is a human being and as such that makes the whole thing tricky business (folklore) as it's often very difficult to do much confirmation of what someone said they saw or experienced, as that is already a primarily internal event in terms of how we experience reality. When internal experience gets external confirmation I suppose that is the moment that some real inquiry can begin, though oftentimes we connect dots that are disconnected to begin with and force a narrative (i.e. ETH). For me the sociological inquiry that looks for actual physical evidence that can be truly connected is in short supply, the rarest of the rare.

    So I agree that these niche studies and theoretical contemplations have a lot of value, though too often they begin from the perspective of the ETH with the implication of a physical craft flying through the galaxies. Consequently we work to apply contemporary physics to such inquiries, so convinced we are that this paradigm is the one to begin from. Of course if it turns out that paradigm is subterfuge or misguided analysis on our part; then, these nice ideas only served to make better bombs and more aerodynamic objects, getting our scientific inspiration from our observations and dreams as always.

    Where science has had great difficulty, even in the radar events & pilot sightings, is the ephemerality of the event, the inconsistency in reporting by simultaneous witnesses and our utter inexplicability as to postulating a cause. I thnk that as soon as we settle ourselves on the ETH we create a chain of thinking that comes with its own set of closed doors analysis.

    Hill's book continues to sit on my shelf partially read for that reason; whereas, a contactee or abductee scenario text tells me something concrete about the person and about extended elements that include pre&post observations of the witness, impact on culture etc.. So while the initial stimulus may not be entirely known i can come to know something about the witness and which parts of their story is about extrapolation and effect or feedback. I just assume the UFO is real, but have no clue what it is, so let's see how it operates in our culture and its interaction with people, and the environment where possibly provable.

    At the end of the day thinking about these objects as weather, or as non-sentient intelligence like birds or insects, may be just as viable if not moreso, given what we know about them. Most of the scripts for these experiences are not found on radar or in speculations of craft (excluding human experiments), but in the way our minds work and in possibly more speculative thinking: the physics of information, the simultanaeity of time and unknown upper atmosphere light phenomena i.e. sky critters.

    At the end of the day sky critters are starting to make much more sense than the ETH as it seems to be more tied to the narrative we made up in the first place. In fact is not the ETH just another name for human folklore?
     
  13. Heidi Lemmer

    Heidi Lemmer Paranormal Adept

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  14. Heidi Lemmer

    Heidi Lemmer Paranormal Adept

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  15. Constance

    Constance Paranormal Adept

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    I'm wondering whether the quantum processes evidently being manipulated in this research can account for a specific phenomenon reported in a ufo case or two discussed in another Paracast thread recently in which the headlight beams of a car being driven in the vicinity of a landed ufo were diverted toward the location of the ufo. I can't remember where that case was described. Can anyone link to it? The phenomenon described seems likely to involve quantum entanglement rather than an intentional action by the occupants/pilot of the ufo.
     
  16. Heidi Lemmer

    Heidi Lemmer Paranormal Adept

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    That story is just at the top of this page, really cool one.
     
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  17. TDSR

    TDSR Paranormal Maven

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    In 2006 there was an encounter with a teenage boy and his dog who shot at an ET outside of Tappen North Dakota. Part of his story included seeing "beams of light that bent over the top of the hills". Here is a link to the story as told by Linda Moulton Howe.

    www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=46&v=WLnQXBstKQo
     
  18. DROBNJAK

    DROBNJAK Paranormal Adept

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    There you are, beams like that had been caught on video. Search for Carlos Diaz, Mexico, ufo etc.



    There is a British soldier, on this forum, who served in Afghanistan and who had seen an UFO shoot a beam like that into a ground.

    As well, famously, in the Rendelsham Forest, UK case, UFO shot a beam like that just few inches in a front of a group leader Col. Holt.

    As well, pls. search for Coyne, Mansfield, Ohio case. UFO shot a green solid light beam at a helicopter. It appeared beam was not a weapon, but just used for inspection.

    As well, the next generation or radars will be like that. They will have such a short wavelenghts that they will almost emit light. Spec for these new radars will enable radar to scan a face of the opposing pilot form 50km (35miles) away and identify him from database ;-)
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2018
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  19. USI Calgary

    USI Calgary J. Randall Murphy Staff Member

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    RADAR is an interesting invention. Few people realize that advanced radar systems can already identify the make of an aircraft by comparing it to a database. It's interesting ( but not unexpected ) that they would be looking to increase the resolution to enable facial recognition. The higher the frequency the greater the resolution. Of course, once you get into the visible light spectrum, you no longer need radar for such a system as it can simply use naturally reflected light. But then you also get into problems with penetration caused by weather ( clouds ). For those interested, here's a good page on RADAR basics: Radar Basics
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2018
  20. blowfish

    blowfish Whittingham

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    Also not ignoring Ball Lightning (A.I) which has been seen around the encounters which correlates with offset interaction with energy. One example is the movie predator stealth field.
    The Predator (2018) and its kinetic operations towards humans.
     
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