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So is ET — Dead?

marduk

quelling chaos since 2352BC
Yet another theory to explain why they are not here, or at least a theory that ignores the possibility:

I think it's probable that if were were to be able to image worlds across the galaxy, or visit them directly, we'd find the remains of many dead civilizations. I mean, we're not that old and we've nearly offed ourselves (or been offed by asteroids or whatever) many times in our history.

As an extension of that topic, for the folks that truly believe there were advanced ancient civilizations on Earth (human or otherwise) the places we should look for them are on the Moon or in extended orbit. The stuff we put on the moon will stay there basically forever because there's almost zero erosion or geological activity. Or in orbit, far out where atmospheric drag wouldn't cause it to de-orbit. So if there was an ancient spacefaring civilization on Earth, that would be place to look for signs of it.

If we could shine a laser beam at dead moons in nearby star systems where habitable planets might have been there, we might just see a return from experiments like the Lunar Laser Ranging experiment, which would probably continue to work for millions of ears after humanity is dead and gone:
 

stonehart

Paranormal Adept
Yet another theory to explain why they are not here, or at least a theory that ignores the possibility:

I think it's probable that if were were to be able to image worlds across the galaxy, or visit them directly, we'd find the remains of many dead civilizations. I mean, we're not that old and we've nearly offed ourselves (or been offed by asteroids or whatever) many times in our history.

As an extension of that topic, for the folks that truly believe there were advanced ancient civilizations on Earth (human or otherwise) the places we should look for them are on the Moon or in extended orbit. The stuff we put on the moon will stay there basically forever because there's almost zero erosion or geological activity. Or in orbit, far out where atmospheric drag wouldn't cause it to de-orbit. So if there was an ancient spacefaring civilization on Earth, that would be place to look for signs of it.

If we could shine a laser beam at dead moons in nearby star systems where habitable planets might have been there, we might just see a return from experiments like the Lunar Laser Ranging experiment, which would probably continue to work for millions of ears after humanity is dead and gone:
It would seem logical to me that there are many examples of extinct civilizations to be found in our own Galaxy, I am sure we can imagine how many time civilizations have come and gone here on our own planet, of course not total extinction but it can indeed give you an idea of how fragile civilization really is. You all know I am more in the nuts and bolts end of Ufology anyway so this really makes sense to me.

Marduk, I agree that if we wish to see if there has indeed been advanced civilization here looking at the moon and orbits would be a good place to go.. Personally I think human civilization has had many periods of advancement and collapse, not on the technological scale we are today for sure, but, I feel humans have obtained different much more than mainstream would have us believe.

And Gene "or at least a theory that ignores the possibility" I absolutely agree.
 

marduk

quelling chaos since 2352BC
It would seem logical to me that there are many examples of extinct civilizations to be found in our own Galaxy, I am sure we can imagine how many time civilizations have come and gone here on our own planet, of course not total extinction but it can indeed give you an idea of how fragile civilization really is. You all know I am more in the nuts and bolts end of Ufology anyway so this really makes sense to me.

Marduk, I agree that if we wish to see if there has indeed been advanced civilization here looking at the moon and orbits would be a good place to go.. Personally I think human civilization has had many periods of advancement and collapse, not on the technological scale we are today for sure, but, I feel humans have obtained different much more than mainstream would have us believe.

And Gene "or at least a theory that ignores the possibility" I absolutely agree.
This is where I kinda have problems with the 'ancient nukes' theory siting ancient Indian myths describing ICBMs with nuclear warheads, or 'flying shields' using antigravity.

I mean, if we had this stuff thousands of years ago and then we the civilization fell, I could buy it. I personally think we're on a precipice now, certainly in the US with open calls for civil war right now and the level of anti-democracy, anti-science, and anti-reason reaching dark ages levels. But if we had nukes and ICBMs and antigravity thousands of years ago, of course we'd scoot off to orbit and the moon and stuff. I mean, it's cool and is useful and is just sitting there. So if we did, that stuff would still be there. Like the old 80s movie Moontrap, which starts with the discovery of an ancient human base on the moon.

The problem is, there's nothing there. And I don't buy at all any of the mysterious photos I've seen of 'artefacts' on the moon. At all. Especially with the current multi-national high def imaging of most of the moon. If stuff was there, it would be shiny and easy to spot, wouldn't corrode, and likely included stuff like mirrors for use as range finders. I mean, shine a laser at the right spot on the moon and you can literally image the reflection coming back. I helped do it once for fun at the UofC observatory, which is exceptionally poorly funded.

So I just don't think anything's there, which would mean that we probably didn't have any of that stuff. It would be cool if we did. I think Hancock was right - we were seafaring and around the globe a lot more than we knew we were, and had a bunch of knowledge about astronomy and engineering which has been lost. But I don't think we made it to space before.
 

marduk

quelling chaos since 2352BC
This is where I kinda have problems with the 'ancient nukes' theory siting ancient Indian myths describing ICBMs with nuclear warheads, or 'flying shields' using antigravity.

I mean, if we had this stuff thousands of years ago and then we the civilization fell, I could buy it. I personally think we're on a precipice now, certainly in the US with open calls for civil war right now and the level of anti-democracy, anti-science, and anti-reason reaching dark ages levels. But if we had nukes and ICBMs and antigravity thousands of years ago, of course we'd scoot off to orbit and the moon and stuff. I mean, it's cool and is useful and is just sitting there. So if we did, that stuff would still be there. Like the old 80s movie Moontrap, which starts with the discovery of an ancient human base on the moon.

The problem is, there's nothing there. And I don't buy at all any of the mysterious photos I've seen of 'artefacts' on the moon. At all. Especially with the current multi-national high def imaging of most of the moon. If stuff was there, it would be shiny and easy to spot, wouldn't corrode, and likely included stuff like mirrors for use as range finders. I mean, shine a laser at the right spot on the moon and you can literally image the reflection coming back. I helped do it once for fun at the UofC observatory, which is exceptionally poorly funded.

So I just don't think anything's there, which would mean that we probably didn't have any of that stuff. It would be cool if we did. I think Hancock was right - we were seafaring and around the globe a lot more than we knew we were, and had a bunch of knowledge about astronomy and engineering which has been lost. But I don't think we made it to space before.
Replying to my own post just because I talked myself into a corner and am going to have to watch Moontrap again. It's actually a very cool movie, with Walter Koneig in the lead role. Hard to find, but is actually on YouTube:
 

stonehart

Paranormal Adept
This is where I kinda have problems with the 'ancient nukes' theory siting ancient Indian myths describing ICBMs with nuclear warheads, or 'flying shields' using antigravity.

I mean, if we had this stuff thousands of years ago and then we the civilization fell, I could buy it. I personally think we're on a precipice now, certainly in the US with open calls for civil war right now and the level of anti-democracy, anti-science, and anti-reason reaching dark ages levels. But if we had nukes and ICBMs and antigravity thousands of years ago, of course we'd scoot off to orbit and the moon and stuff. I mean, it's cool and is useful and is just sitting there. So if we did, that stuff would still be there. Like the old 80s movie Moontrap, which starts with the discovery of an ancient human base on the moon.

The problem is, there's nothing there. And I don't buy at all any of the mysterious photos I've seen of 'artefacts' on the moon. At all. Especially with the current multi-national high def imaging of most of the moon. If stuff was there, it would be shiny and easy to spot, wouldn't corrode, and likely included stuff like mirrors for use as range finders. I mean, shine a laser at the right spot on the moon and you can literally image the reflection coming back. I helped do it once for fun at the UofC observatory, which is exceptionally poorly funded.

So I just don't think anything's there, which would mean that we probably didn't have any of that stuff. It would be cool if we did. I think Hancock was right - we were seafaring and around the globe a lot more than we knew we were, and had a bunch of knowledge about astronomy and engineering which has been lost. But I don't think we made it to space before.
Great reasoning, I don't think anything from us is there either.. maybe alien artifacts? but in all honesty I doubt that as well...

If we move further out into the solar system Mars is a possibility but even then I don not think the science supports it as far as a dead civilization there is concerned, so maybe alien artifacts? Again it is all just speculation and fantasy, hard evidence is no existent other than strange stories and fuzzy photos etc.

Where the ancient Indian and Vedic texts are concerned I always suggest caution as it is all to easy to attribute modern thinking to the ancient mind creating a very inaccurate impression of what they were actually thinking etc etc.

The world right now stands on the brink of civil collapse... you all take care my friends for these are truly interesting times.

Randall and Gene just as a side note here maybe a round table on the very topic of ancient aliens and human advanced civilization would be a great show? touch on the whole break away civilization ideas etc etc as well and get form/listener thoughts on the subjects?

Hell I would be in there in a heart beat.
 

marduk

quelling chaos since 2352BC
Great reasoning, I don't think anything from us is there either.. maybe alien artifacts? but in all honesty I doubt that as well...

If we move further out into the solar system Mars is a possibility but even then I don not think the science supports it as far as a dead civilization there is concerned, so maybe alien artifacts? Again it is all just speculation and fantasy, hard evidence is no existent other than strange stories and fuzzy photos etc.
There's almost zero possibility there was a civilization on Mars. It was warm and wet for a time, sure, but not nearly long enough to develop intelligence and civilization if life on Earth is a template. And it was way more unstable geologically - Olympus Mons alone is 500 km wide and 26km tall and is an extinction level event alone. And half it's crust is, well, missing somehow - the northern hemisphere is a lot lower and younger than the south, making it seem like it might have been blown off at one point. It also lacks a magnetosphere, which makes it's surface somewhat radioactive.

So even when it was warm and wet, it's actively very hostile, and not at all the kind of environment that we could imagine intelligent life evolving on quickly.

And I buy exactly zero arguments that the face is anything but a hill, and to be frank Redfern's recent Mars book is somewhat a joke in this regard with his imaging evidence otherwise.
Where the ancient Indian and Vedic texts are concerned I always suggest caution as it is all to easy to attribute modern thinking to the ancient mind creating a very inaccurate impression of what they were actually thinking etc etc.

The world right now stands on the brink of civil collapse... you all take care my friends for these are truly interesting times.

Randall and Gene just as a side note here maybe a round table on the very topic of ancient aliens and human advanced civilization would be a great show? touch on the whole break away civilization ideas etc etc as well and get form/listener thoughts on the subjects?

Hell I would be in there in a heart beat.
I think that's a great idea!
 

stonehart

Paranormal Adept
There's almost zero possibility there was a civilization on Mars. It was warm and wet for a time, sure, but not nearly long enough to develop intelligence and civilization if life on Earth is a template. And it was way more unstable geologically - Olympus Mons alone is 500 km wide and 26km tall and is an extinction level event alone. And half it's crust is, well, missing somehow - the northern hemisphere is a lot lower and younger than the south, making it seem like it might have been blown off at one point. It also lacks a magnetosphere, which makes it's surface somewhat radioactive.

So even when it was warm and wet, it's actively very hostile, and not at all the kind of environment that we could imagine intelligent life evolving on quickly.

And I buy exactly zero arguments that the face is anything but a hill, and to be frank Redfern's recent Mars book is somewhat a joke in this regard with his imaging evidence otherwise.

I think that's a great idea!
We are most certainly on the same page you an me then where it comes to Mars etc, now microbial life is a possibility and honestly it is not Mars that interests me where that is concerned for it is entirely possible any microbes there came from Earth anyway (been plenty of interchange with materials in the early solar system) or Mars to Earth for that matter.

Now what really interests me are the ice moons of Jupiter, I think microbial life like that found around deep oceanic vents is almost a certainty, and maybe, just maybe, there could be some slightly more complex life in those deep dark ice covered oceans.

Well it is something to think about anyway.
 

stonehart

Paranormal Adept

stonehart

Paranormal Adept
Sorry to double post as I always feel it gets messy... anyway Oumuamua that was an interesting development for sure.

This is a good run down on 10 reasons why it will blow your mind.


And a full 40 min chat about it....


It could very well be a bit of space junk as in reality we have not been able to go see it and confirm anything other than speculation and well educated guess. In all reality it is likely a space rock, but then again it could very well be something much more interesting.

What has me interested right now is Proxima Centauri and an unknown signal... that is very very interesting indeed.

 

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