Show Direction?

[lazyslackmaster]

I have been listening for a long time. I have downloaded and listened to most of the shows. I do like the work you do (both of you) but I have noticed the show going more political....

In the begining the show talked almost 100% about paranormal, the last show, in the first half, had almost 75% political talk and how Bush sucks and the war is wrong, etc...I don't agree with the your opinions on Bush and the war, but I respect your right to state it, especially on YOUR show. But can we get back to being paranormal?

Did that sound right?????

Thank you for all the hard work you put into your shows and entertaining and teaching us fellow listeners...

Rob

 

[tommyball]

Yes the degree of political discussion varies on this show from episode to episode and obviously it's going to bother people differently based on their own views.

However in this day and age of such marked political polarity, as I delve deeper into the UFO subject, I find that the political creeps more and more into paranormal discussions. Once one with a serious interest in the paranormal, or specifically the UFO phenomenon, gets to a certain level where he/she accepts it as real you can't help but be frustrated by the present state of affairs.

Hearing about more and more cases does not effect me much anymore. It
may steer my beliefs in different directions, but it doesn't change the fact that I know that there is a larger reality, one that apparently includes advanced intelligences. Juxtapose that mindset with the world we live in; it clashes on almost every level.

We live in a global economy fueled by increasing consumer demand and an ever wider array of technologically advanced products to consume. This is under the shadow of our War on Terror; the motives, goals, theology and propaganda of which I won't even begin to get into here. To say it is a divisive issue is the understatement of the century. Enter politics. The wall keeping the UFO phenomenon far off at the fringe was built by our government and is maintained by it, the media, and a complacent, vain society that is satisfied to gorge itself daily on pop culture.

Now this is just my opinion, and I'm sure there are many out there for whom belief in UFOs is enough; they don't need or desire it's affirmation or recognition by the masses. I want to know more and I would like to see society exposed to the knowledge and acceptance of the UFO phenomenon and pushed off the ledge into what it might reveal.

Just my little rant...

-todd.

"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."
- Martin Luther King Jr.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Well, it's hard to talk about UFOs without realizing politics has become a part of it. Obviously, it's the dream of lots of people involved in UFO research for some sort of disclosure. So who provides that disclosure? The governments of course, and then we get into the nooks and crannies of political agendas, and secret agendas, and even secret governments.

From the very first, for example, Ufologists were demanding an end to government secrecy. The late Major Donald Keyhoe, one of the pioneer UFO writers, was talking about congressional hearings more than 50 years ago.

Alas, I can't see how you can easily remove politics from the equation.

 

[Tommy Allison]

Bah... Governments and disclosure. Last time I checked I didn't need the government's permission to write a book, or put on a TV show about aliens and UFO's.

Government certification means nothing. If anything, if the government certifies it, you can believe that it's bull.

 

[lazyslackmaster]

It sounds as though some have taken my comments incorrectly. I have no problems with the opposing political views of the hosts and myself, if fact I like the disagreement. If there was no darkness, there would be no light; one needs the other. I, also, understand Gene's comments about disclosure coming from the government, and that I completely agree with. I just wish the discussion would stay to that level and not the Bush bashing and war hating. Again, it is not that I dislike you disagreeing with the President, no matter who it may be, but this is a paranormal show. Leave the politics to Rush, Sean, Air America and the main stream news. Gene and David, you have an awesome show that I love to listen to and will comtinue to listen to, I just thought I might finally say what I was thinking.

Thank you for your time

 

[pixelsmith]

i take it you support bush and do not hate war. you agree with the president? you support this invasion? you support the new world order and the continued debt brought to this Nation that will result in total financial devastation and control of the masses? that is fucked up dude. you need to do some research. i cannot believe a sane person would think like that. i am interested in WHY you support this president?

 

[lazyslackmaster]

Why the personal attack? I cannot have an opinion? I have not stated if I support Bush, the war and anything else. Read my post and try again....

I said this is a paranormal podcast and forums board, not political. I came here under the pretenses that that is what Gene and David were going to talk about.

Thanks for being so open minded.......

 

[pixelsmith]

uh dude... no personal attack. i stated your support for war and debt was fucked up. i did not say YOU were fucked up.

i also stated i was INTERESTED in WHY you support the president. i believe being interested in your view point is being open minded.

 

[tommyball]

Bah... Governments and disclosure. Last time I checked I didn't need the government's permission to write a book, or put on a TV show about aliens and UFO's.

Government certification means nothing. If anything, if the government certifies it, you can believe that it's bull.

I agree with the first part, though I think that government disclosure (or perhaps more of a confirmation that yes, unexplained phenomena do appear in our skies and we maintain an interest in them) would be beneficial. Is it necessary? No, but otherwise it is going to take a lot of time or a major event for ufology to gain more mainstream acceptance.

Your points seem to go hand in hand with what Gene has said a few times on the show: that we are seeking disclosure from a government that we neither approve of nor trust.

-todd.

 

[lazyslackmaster]

I still didn't say if I supported anything, so I will state my opinion. I supported and still support the "War on Terrorism". Does this include Iraq? I am still trying to fit them into this whole thing yet, but the pieces don't completely fit together. Iraq, as I see it was for for revenge (for Bush's father) and oil and maybe a little to stop a dictator from doing more damage to the whole world. I see the US becoming the big bully and don't like the way it is going. Yes we are the SuperPower of the world, but every dynasty falls. We should be learning from history, but we don't. I don't blame Bush for anything because, as we all know, the president in just a puppet and someone for us to point at and blame. So that bring up the question...who is calling the shots? Also, where did I say anything about supporting the debt this comtry has?
....Dems, always gotta take a shot at the little man...

 

[pixelsmith]

i am no dem. if you support bush and the war, you support the debt. i think they just printed up another 800 billion dollars of fake money to pay for it.

 

[lazyslackmaster]

Printing up "Fake" money does no good for anyone...except me, I print in up ever night

 

[cottonzway]

LOL @ the "War on Terrorism"

Sorry, I had to.

 

[Brian Now]

On the one hand, I see what Gene was saying that politics would naturally be brought into the discussion on UFOs. It's clear that the government/military is going to be more likely to know something about UFOs than any other group, if for no other reason than the technology and resources they possess.

On the other hand though, I think that politics sometimes gets applied to ufology. I think there is underlying frustration that we're not much further along than we were in 1947. I think when people get frustated with something they're passionate about then government, God and/or society usually get made scapegoats. In this case it's the government. If a government "source" says there's a reverse engineering program we believe them...if another source says "that's a bunch of hoopla" then they're either out of the loop or part of the cover up. Mix that biased view of government with some of the uninformed ideas we sometimes hear and you've got a mess.

 

[BrandonD]

On the other hand though, I think that politics sometimes gets applied to ufology. I think there is underlying frustration that we're not much further along than we were in 1947. I think when people get frustated with something they're passionate about then government, God and/or society usually get made scapegoats. In this case it's the government. If a government "source" says there's a reverse engineering program we believe them...if another source says "that's a bunch of hoopla" then they're either out of the loop or part of the cover up. Mix that biased view of government with some of the uninformed ideas we sometimes hear and you've got a mess.

I agree that politics are sometimes unnecessarily applied to ufology, but there's a crucial point to be made. It's simply an uncontestable fact that compartments of the US government know far more than they are telling about the ufo mystery. That single point kinda makes political discussions unavoidable, if ufos are the topic of discussion.

I think as long as Gene and David can keep their heads about them (which is alot of the time I think), then they'll delve into politics only as much as it's reasonable.

 

[DBTrek]

[ It's simply an uncontestable fact that compartments of the US government know far more than they are telling about the ufo mystery.

I don't find this to be an uncontestable fact. If it were, there could be no real cover-up as the evidence proving this uncontestable fact would undermine it. Let alone the fact that it is impossible to prove that someone else (or an organization) has knowledge of something. To be truly open-minded on the issue, people have to consider the possibility that the ufo community doesn't know what it's talking about, and the government isn't hiding anything spectacular.

 

[BrandonD]

I don't find this to be an uncontestable fact. If it were, there could be no real cover-up as the evidence proving this uncontestable fact would undermine it. Let alone the fact that it is impossible to prove that someone else (or an organization) has knowledge of something. To be truly open-minded on the issue, people have to consider the possibility that the ufo community doesn't know what it's talking about, and the government isn't hiding anything spectacular.

Your argument that evidence proving the cover-up would undermine the cover-up is just wrong. Evidence is absolutely useless unless *people know about it*.

Your statement is true only in a utopian world where people are actually informed of relevant and factual information. In this world, people are generally fed various degrees of lies that serve the liar's agenda.

The government/military has formally stated that since blue book they have no interest in ufos. Their own documents show that this is a lie, their interest continues to the present.

Their own documents also describe the tracking of these objects, and large portions of these documents are BLACKED OUT. It is thus probably reasonable to conclude...

The government is concealing information that it knows about unidentified flying objects.

Having said all that, I recognize my position as an assumption. A safe and reasonable assumption, but an assumption nevertheless. I don't consider assumptions immutable. But you'd have to find an argument against government concealment that's stronger than the argument for concealment.

 

[BrandonD]

Your argument that evidence proving the cover-up would undermine the cover-up is just wrong. Evidence is absolutely useless unless *people know about it*.

Your statement is true only in a utopian world where people are actually informed of relevant and factual information. In this world, people are generally fed various degrees of lies that serve the liar's agenda.

The government/military has formally stated that since blue book they have no interest in ufos. Their own documents show that this is a lie, their interest continues to the present.

Their own documents also describe the tracking of these objects, and large portions of these documents are BLACKED OUT. It is thus probably reasonable to conclude...

The government is concealing information that it knows about unidentified flying objects.

Having said all that, I recognize my position as an assumption. A safe and reasonable assumption, but an assumption nevertheless. I don't consider assumptions immutable. But you'd have to find an argument against government concealment that's stronger than the argument for concealment.

Here is some support for my assumption (note the web addresses):

http://www.nsa.gov/ufo/ufo00047.pdf

http://www.nsa.gov/ufo/ufo00050.pdf

http://www.nsa.gov/ufo/ufo00008.pdf

http://www.nsa.gov/ufo/ufo00011.pdf

Some are articles and some are the direct UFO reports themselves. There are records in there of tracking ufos that fly away at a high rate of speed and then split into multiple "balls of fire". Our f-14s can't pull that trick off quite yet.

 

[devan]

LOL @ the "War on Terrorism"

Let's see... the 1993 World Trade center attacks, '95 bombings in France, '98 African embassy bombings, '00 USS Cole attack, '02 Bali bombing, '04 Madrid bombings, '05 London bombings, '06 Indian bombings, etc., etc. by the hundreds - both before and after the Bush administration. The fanatics who assassinated Anwar el-Sadat in 1981 decorated their holding cages with banners stating the "caliphate or death." That's their goal. Very simple.

Mao Zedong formulated the strategy known as "fight fight talk talk." It was a brilliant success, as the Iranians are learning. Couple that with taking advantage of "useful idiots" (coined by the Soviet Russians as millions of their own people were exterminated) and you get an insight into their tactics. They are also counting on the belief that the West is too soft and weak-willed to engage in a sustained fight. UBL recognized that when he called the US a paper tiger. Like the evil entities discussed in paranormal circles, they feed and grow on fear and weakness.

Forty percent of Rotterdam's population is Muslim and Mohammed is "the" the most popular baby boy's name in Belgium and the fifth most popular in the United Kingdom. Clearly the world cannot resolve the radicalization of the religion by military means. We can laugh and ignore the problem. Those who would like nothing more than to destroy civilization are counting on it and laughing with you. But in a time of dangerous nuclear proliferation with a growing number of individuals who glorify killing and being killed, I don't see much to laugh about.

It's time to stop the name calling and work together to deal with the root causes of this cancer. Blaming everything on Bush is not helpful, is a distraction and only encourages the radicals. The movement saw exponential growth during the Clinton administration, but the root causes are so complicated that there is little he could have done either. It has to come from within. Local governments and individuals must stop to say, "we've had it!", take charge and deal with their own issues. We are seeing some of that happen in Iraq's Anbar province, where the locals were tired of the torture and murder of children before their parents' eyes and just the overall violence and slaughter.

And to tie this to the paranormal, does the fact that we have no verifiable evidence of time travel mean that it will never happen? Will we destroy ourselves (or get hit by a big rock, Yosemite blast, etc.) before we can ever attain that technology? Either time travel, or at least travel to the past, is impossible and always be or our future doesn't look too promising.

 

[lazyslackmaster]

WOW...

and I was just trying to get the show a little more paranormal and a little less political...