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Regarding abduction stories.

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Bananas

Bananas

Paranormal Maven
I signed up just to make this thread, but it's something that has been bothering me for a long time now. Why doesn't researchers make the glaringly obvious connection between alleged alien abductions and abnormal DMT excretion? I mean, the similarities between trips described after smoking DMT and alien abduction stories are so striking, that you could not tell them apart without the context.

First, what is DMT: Dimethyltryptamine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Then some DMT trip stories.Descriptions of the DMT Experience

Now, if you wake up in the middle of the night after having an abnormal DMT excretion, could you honestly tell the difference? This explanation would address the issue pretty much completely, and it annoys me to no end when NO ONE makes the connection.

I've heard Chris mention it a few times, but there has never been any actual discussion about it, and every time he does mention it the guest either completely ignores the question or has no clue what he is talking about.
 
It's good to stake your claim and DMT is certainly worth examining up against the abduction experience. There are certainly a lot of interesting aspects to this molecule that is simply everywhere. It's similarities to the descriptions of abduction experiences are certainly worth noting.

A couple of backgrounders:

This movie is an excellent introduction to DMT, and its specific features. If you can see past the bizarre dated 60's b&w docu moments there's a lot of good critical info in here.

The other backgrounder is a good generic look at various features of abductions. It's the only abductee claimant's narrative that has ever made me doubt my conviction, for a brief while, that 99.9% of abduction cases have anything to do with aliens from another planet. I find this narrative to be both compelling & problematic due to the child feature. It's also written under a pseudonym; Thomas Rhymer has an illustrious, and specific history, as does the Abduction Phenomenon. They're both worth examining. But let's imagine that this one story's real and consider the consequences of that for just a few minutes. See where it takes you.

http://www.cufos.org/rymer.pdf

Personally, I think DMT blasts in the brain could be easily responsible for a significant portion of the 99.9% of claimed abductions. I think a significant chunk are sleep paralysis and another chunk are mental health issues related to abuse & self-esteem issues, possibly related to sexual abuse, and these are truly psychiatric concerns. Then there are very rare cases that have some compelling aspects to them.

I find the claims of children as abduction victims to be especially disturbing. This specific feature needs a critical address, especially when it is parents suggesting that their own child is being abducted. Let's not be idle about this aspect of the abduction discussion. Hope others join in on this one.
 
The critical thing with a pure DMT trip when smoked is, that you don't get croggy or anything. You are completely and utterly lucid, you don't lose any of your senses and your mind doesn't get clouded. Those who do DMT more than once can attest that every trip is a terrifying experience, it never gets "easy" or comfortable.

Now, if you had a spontaneus release of DMT in your brain (It's recently been scientifically proven without a doubt that the pineal gland does indeed create it) and you had no idea what a DMT trip is, how would you react to seeing beings of infinite wisdom who communicate with thoughts? Who show you things about the universe in good trips and tear you apart or examine you in a cold, clinical manner in bad ones? It would be an inexplicable experience, unlike anything you've ever even imagined you could experience and, thanks to the media, what would be your first thought? That's right, alien abduction. These people are in essence telling the truth, the experience while doing DMT is so vivid and seems so real that it would be impossible to tell the difference between it being a real experience or a hallucionation (or whatever the trip actually is, it's still a mystery due to it being illegal to even study it in most countries).

Then there is the fact that many of these claimants have several experiences through their lives, which also fits, because if you have some abnormality in your pineal gland, it stands to reason it could happen multiple times.

The similarities are just too much to simply ignore, yet everyone does and I want to know why. Ignorance? Refusal to even consider a mundane explanataion? I can freely admit that I have no in-depth knowledge of anything regarding this subject, but the absence of the connection even being discussed makes literally no sense to me at all. When you read or hear these abduction stories, and then read DMT stories, you just go "Wait... what? Does no one see the connection?"

So, if there is something to explain all this away, please, someone educate me, because it's gotten to the point where I get agitated when I hear about the subject of abduction and no mention of any of this is made, ever.
 
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Burnt State said:
I find the claims of children as abduction victims to be especially disturbing. This specific feature needs a critical address, especially when it is parents suggesting that their own child is being abducted. Let's not be idle about this aspect of the abduction discussion. Hope others join in on this one.
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Is it likely that DMT (and/or other brain chemistry) that is produced in the still developing childhood brain are possibly playing an important role given that language is incomplete and many good-bad scarey fantasy stories are also told to children too? Often childhood experiences are quite vivid having lifelong impacts about these imaginary "friends" and "places" and "experiences" including pronounced fears and unusual sleeping or waking dreams.

No doubt childhood abuse plays a role in some cases, but also just the helpless nature of being a child subject to adult protection, controls, punishment, and guidance have an impact. Television, Internet, multimedia immersion, and computer games are going to shape children's thinking in very deep ways vs our human history.

Abduction memes are prevalent in society now with Amber Alerts and "play dates" and general paranoia that news media and television dramas promote too. ET and more monsters and "other beings" are on the big and little screens.
 
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Maybe the answer is on the site you posted: No two DMT experiences are alike, and no two people should expect any similarity in their individual experiences...
...while abduction experiences are very much alike, as experts say so.
I have friends who took ayahuasca and Santo Daime tea. Each reports a different stories such as stars becoming animals that descend from the sky; or their spiritual guides speaking to them.
I am very curious to take it, but I am a coward with drugs. I do believe our brains are crazy enough to come up with weird stuff without drugs.
I got your point and think you could be right.
I have had spontaneous OBE(?) and lucid dreams. During lucid dreams I can stop it, analyze, and direct it. The funny thing is that you can check that scientists are right, and that dreams are all about what you were exposed while awake. But during an OBE (?) is weird... you can't control, your consciousness seems much cleaner than when you are awake, you meet people, fly, and etc....BUT I forget almost everything seconds after waking up. Too bad.
I am with Shakespeare: There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
 
But how much of the reported abduction experience is coloured by the media version of an alien abdudction? I mean, if you experience something inexplicable, how do you put it into words? I find it rather likely that people would fill in the blanks so to speak with something they do know, which would make abduction stories sound similar if these people have never heard DMT stories. Of course, it's hard to tell how large a percentage of these claimants have actually had any experiences at all. and aren't just telling stories for whatever reason. I honestly don't know what the answer is, someone with far more intelligence and drive should look into this, is all I'm saying.

EDIT: Also, the fact that it's an inherent burst of DMT might make the experience different somehow. The banning of this substance even from scientists makes the study of DMT in any form completely illegal in most countries, so getting actual peer-reviewed literature on this subject is next to impossible.

However, in the 70s, there was a study done that shows Schizophrenics having elevated DMT levels in the blood.
 
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Bananas said:
The similarities are just too much to simply ignore, yet everyone does and I want to know why. Ignorance? Refusal to even consider a mundane explanataion? I can freely admit that I have no in-depth knowledge of anything regarding this subject, but the absence of the connection even being discussed makes literally no sense to me at all. When you read or hear these abduction stories, and then read DMT stories, you just go "Wait... what? Does no one see the connection?"

So, if there is something to explain all this away, please, someone educate me, because it's gotten to the point where I get agitated when I hear about the subject of abduction and no mention of any of this is made, ever.
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Let's say it's a given that the unconscious or subconscious mind has these underlying fears that have always been unleashed into a "life of their own" always "out there" thanks to story telling and mythology. Simply, add-in the incredible power of our Multimedia Inputs we get now vs human history, and it's perhaps no surprise Abduction is a very powerful meme in society now.

Listen to this show that discusses how a "famous ufology" Farmer (sorry, I don't remember his name) has documented how ET-UFO memes have gotten into our thinking including Abduction themes. It is amazing the connections!

This is the Free Paracast show:

February 17, 2008 — James W. Moseley and Christopher Roth

Spend an evening with the inimitable James W. Moseley, editor of Saucer Smear and his designated replacement, cultural anthropologist and UFO researcher Christopher Roth. This is going to be one rollicking session that will focus on UFOs in popular culture.
 
Each reports a different stories such as stars becoming animals that descend from the sky; or their spiritual guides speaking to them.
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There is Podcast and Radio Show Host that does a lot of ET-UFO shows, his initials are G.B., and he has never seen an ET-UFO -until he tried DMT. Once he took DMT he saw UFO's everywhere in the Sky -until he returned to a normal state of mind.

Obviously, his intense interest in this subject shaped his DMT experience to see UFO's everywhere in the Sky.

I think you live where you can get DMT -Brazil ??? I've heard of organized groups of Americans traveling somewhere in South America to take organized DMT trips that are "safe" with experienced DMT guides. If you have a positive mind with less fear, then you are likely to have a positive experience vs something else.
 
That's Ayahuasca, not pure, smoked DMT. The thing with Ayahuasca is that it's ingested, so it affects slowly and completely differently. Smoking DMT gives you a 15 minute rocket trip. The 2 can't even be compared and should never be mixed together when discussing experiences. Just to point this out.
 
Too bad DMT is very different from Ayahuasca.
Here in brazil they have religions who take Ayahuasca tea . I know of 2: Santo Daime e União do Vegetal.
My friends told me Santo Daime followers also smoke pot which they call erva de Santa Maria (Virgin Mary Herb)... And in name of religion freedom they are somewhat legal, LOL
Sorry, I can't take this seriously. I imagine is just a plot to get wasted with a cause.
Plus, in the 50s my Canadian father-in-law was one of the many LSD researchers for the American Army. I don't know much of it but he used to say there was a possibility that hallucinogenic drugs are triggers to mental illness in certain individuals. I rather keep my brain clean.
 
No, DMT is the active ingredient in Ayahuasca, it's just that the effect is very different when you ingest it orally like you do when you drink the Ayahuasca brew. Smoking pure DMT means it goes straight to your blood stream and since it's a compound that naturally exists in the human body, there is no buffer for it. When you drink it, it goes through your entire ingestive system.

To clarify, dimethyltryptamine is what we're talking about here. It's simply shortened to DMT.

Also, if you want to talk about religion and hallucinogenics... I suggest you read this book.
Amazon.com: The Sacred Mushroom and The Cross: A study of the nature and origins of Christianity within the fertility cults of the ancient Near East (9780982556276): John M. Allegro, J.R. Irvin, Jan Irvin, Carl A. P. Ruck, Judith Anne Brown: Books
 
BTW
I did not believe in abductions until I went to a symposium (2013- Contatados- Florianopolis) and saw David Jacobs amongst other researchers. Then I sat beside a girl that had abduction memories and was there to find out if she was crazy or meet others like her. Everyone there was not the stereotype of an attention seeker. On the contrary, people were serious and trying to get to the truth.
Therefore I came to a conclusion that there was more to abduction than just tall tales.
I am still a non-believer in alien abduction. I am inclined to believe in other dimension beings playing havoc with humans psych. So, my conclusion is worst than the simple answer of alien abduction, therefore don't believe me! Check the facts.
My last desillusion was (deceased) Karla Turner. In her youtube talks she seemed very good. Then I read Into the Fringe. Horrible book.My gut feeling was that she wanted to be in that circus, so I cannot take her research seriously anymore.
The UFO field is a mess.
Just in case I keep my vibes aligned with good thoughts and hopefully in tune with the good aliens. I want GREYS as far from me as possible, because: Yo no creo en brujas, pero que las hay, las hay LOL
 
Ufocurious said:
Plus, in the 50s my Canadian father-in-law was one of the many LSD researchers for the American Army. I don't know much of it but he used to say there was a possibility that hallucinogenic drugs are triggers to mental illness in certain individuals. I rather keep my brain clean.
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An older relative took LSD a few times in the late 1960's, and it totally changed his life. He met Jesus during one of his "trips", he dropped-out of college, and he joined the Children of God. He traveled as a missionary around the world, married in the church, and has four children. It wasn't until his fifties that he and his wife left their religion. His oldest child is a committed member of the faith. It was no more than just a few trips on LSD that changed his entire life. He met Jesus maybe because he was raised in the Catholic faith.
That's Ayahuasca, not pure, smoked DMT. The thing with Ayahuasca is that it's ingested, so it affects slowly and completely differently. Smoking DMT gives you a 15 minute rocket trip. The 2 can't even be compared and should never be mixed together when discussing experiences. Just to point this out.
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Does the pure DMT have more harmful effects on the brain? That seems like a very powerful drug that might be too dangerous in that pure form, or is it considered safe since "the trip" is gone so fast? I mean safe in the sense of no permanent brain damage, or is the brain chemistry altered forever if taken too many times or too quickly for proper recovery?
 
The mess in the UFO field is probably just an extension of the real mess that is our quest for truth. Are we spiritual beings on a human form, or humans scared of the fact that this material world is all there is and easy prey to any belief that there is more than meets the eye?
IMHO psychedelic drugs is a way to remind us that our brains are powerful enough to create all the fantasies we may take as paranormal, sacred, or whatever.
I am the result of it. I live my life like all there is is here and now. However I am always having weird paranormal experiences that make me go after the truth if it exists.
I joke I am worst than Saint Thomas, because even seeing I don't believe. But the truth is that I believe what I see, but I don't know what it is.
Do I make any sense, or I come through a complete loony?
 
I agree that some abduction cases could be explained DMT being produced internally by the experiencer, however in my opinion this could not explain abductions of multiple people at the same time e.g MR and MRS Hill etc.
 
Han said:
I agree that some abduction cases could be explained DMT being produced internally by the experiencer, however in my opinion this could not explain abductions of multiple people at the same time e.g MR and MRS Hill etc.
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You might be interested in listening to that Paracast I linked to in this thread... see my previous post. They mentioned specifically the B&B Hill case linked to this "famous ufology" expert. I can't remember his name, but he is a farmer too. I think he published a book or some research about it. I thought it was very interesting.

If people are experiencing similar abduction experiences separately at different times, then I see no reason why they can't experience a similar experience at the same time too. It's possible a DMT experience could be induced from an external source too? DMT can be inhaled.

Maybe B&B Hill were an experiment? A lot of Mind Control and UFO and Other weird "paranoia" experiments were done by top secret covert testing during that time frame. They were in the right area for that kind of test, and they were an unusual (black/white) marriage for their time. I honestly think they were targeted for some kind of bizarre PSYOPS Human experiment (and/or abuse).
 
Bananas said:
Also, if you want to talk about religion and hallucinogenics... I suggest you read this book.
Amazon.com: The Sacred Mushroom and The Cross: A study of the nature and origins of Christianity within the fertility cults of the ancient Near East (9780982556276): John M. Allegro, J.R. Irvin, Jan Irvin, Carl A. P. Ruck, Judith Anne Brown: Books
Click to expand...
Thanks for the suggestion, but I will stick to my UFO research. Too lazy too spread my wings. HEHEHE
I had the 1987 edition of Plants of Gods and found it too much for me. But when I retire and have free time I may take this course. I will be one of those old ladies going to Rainbow Gatherings and taking LSD on the 4th of July! Nothing to loose once we are free of the rat race!
 
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