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Post Roundtable

Discussion in 'Talk About the Show' started by CapnG, Dec 11, 2006.



  1. David Biedny

    David Biedny Paranormal Adept

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    Folks,

    These are my VERY last words on the Meier nonsense. He Who Shall Not Be Named? is Hrn, for the sake of visual brevity (bypassing our lovely text replacement routine). It is being sent to the Victor Martinez list today.
    --------------------------

    Last Friday, Jeff Ritmann and Michael Hrn appeared on
    a radio show to "debate" the validity of the Billy
    Meier's claims regarding photos of what he says are
    actual spaceships. Jeff agreed to do this show after
    Hrn had been naming Jeff on a previous appearance of
    said show, when Ritzmann called in to clarify the
    issues surrounding his recreations of photos that had
    originally been done in response to a challenge by
    Hrn.

    Hrn challenged me to analyze and prove that a
    specific photo of a Meier "UFO" was either fake or
    genuine. Based on my analysis, it was clear that the
    photo in question was absolutely fabricated. NO
    QUESTION. Numerous problems with the lighting, the
    artifacts of cloth from the light element plate, lack
    of reflections and other clear indications of a
    composite image, purposefully faked. It's not like
    this surprised me - the vast majority of the Meier
    images look fake to me, and unlike Hrn, I am indeed
    professionally qualified to make this statement.

    Hrn was given ample opportunity to address my
    findings, on our show and message forums, and true to
    his (apparently well-documented) style, proceeded to
    evade, ignore, distort and do everything BUT answer
    some simple questions about my findings. He then
    proceeded to engage in a deeply disturbing and extreme
    display of deceipt, fabrication of people and events,
    abusive behaviour and downright psychotic craziness,
    which forced us to bar him from our forums, after
    multiple warnings.

    Hrn has since been served with a formal cease and
    desist notice, to stop harrassing me with unwelcome
    emails, as well as receiving similar demands from Gene
    Steinberg, Jeff Ritzmann and Royce Meyers. He
    continued his emails to the point where we were
    recently forced to take formal action with his ISP -
    his website was shut down for a few days in response.
    He continues to send emails to us, regardless of our
    requests for him to stop. Here's a recent from him:

    -----------

    GS, DB, UFOW, JR,

    Hey there knuckleheads, how the heck are ya!?!?

    I just wanted to thank y'all for the tireless work
    that you've done
    to help me record the 4,000,000th visitor to
    www.theyfly.com. While
    I'm sure I could've done it without ya, every little
    bit of help
    certainly - helps!

    It's truly heartwarming to see how the envious efforts
    of a couple of
    dolts have kept my name alive on their little internet
    forum and how
    the cowardly sniping and defaming by an
    I-dare-not-show-my-face
    parasite has driven over a good number of inquisitive
    types, some of
    whom have become (look out for the dreaded "C" word) -
    customers!

    And let's not forget the whining and griping from our
    resident cake
    pan model maker, without whose efforts the genuine,
    authentic, and
    incomparably clear reality of Meier's photos, films
    and video would
    not have been so immediately perceptible to soooooooo
    many people.

    So, Season's Greetings, be of good cheer and - keep on
    defaming,
    griping and whining (kinda sounds like a law firm,
    doesn't it?) -
    it's what you do best!

    From me, lovable little ol',

    MH

    ----------------------

    According to Hrn, Meier fans are "customers".

    He complained to the host of the radio show last week
    that he was not allowed to express himself on the
    Paracast message forums. He declined to mention why he
    was banned, or any of the specifics of his experience
    with our show. He is now claiming that the four of us
    engaged in a bashing session on The Paracast this
    week, without allowing him to present his "arguments"
    or "point of view".

    In my own experiences with Hrn, his has shown an
    absolute willingness to invent discussions,
    selectively quote and flagrantly misquote people in
    order to cloak and distort the truth. In a thread on
    The Paracast discussion forums, he was caught
    red-handed in the process of a libelous, slanderous
    scheme to harm me on a personal and professional
    level. In response to my sharing the story of a major
    UFO encounter in Caracas, Venezuela in the summer of
    1974 (the topic of the fifth episode of The Paracast),
    Hrn publicly claimed that I fabricated this encounter
    in order to start a UFO cult (a clear projection of
    his own internal awareness of the reality of the Meier
    case). He has questioned my professional credentials
    as a leading Photoshop and imaging expert, facts amply
    documented and easily verified. He has stated that my
    findings about the the image I analyzed (which I found
    to me a multiple-exposure composite) were flawed -
    specifically, he misquoted me saying that the picture
    is a _double exposure_, and says that a friend of his
    - who he won't name, but who has "50 years of
    experience" in the special effects world - says that
    I'm wrong, that it's a "triple exposure". Or course,
    regardless of the method of multiple exposure, or fact
    that Hrn has NEVER addressed ANY of the other MANY
    problems I discovered in the picture, he has never
    responded to my finding that the picture is clearly
    fabricated.

    I have followed up with select folks he often mentions
    in his rants, who have told me directly that they want
    nothing to do with him, that he is misrepresenting
    their statements or even knowing them or
    ever speaking with them. In the latest exchange
    regarding Ritzmann, Hrn is now quoting "forestry
    experts" in regards to what he claims are scientific
    statements about the size of the trees photographed
    with the hoaxed disc models. Without providing
    written, notarized documents from these people, he has
    no proof that they made any statements regarding this
    issue, or that he has ever actually been in
    communication with any of them.

    Worthy of particular mention is that "50-year FX
    veteran", who Hrn refused to name, but apparently has
    an entry at IMDB.com. Hrn posted his credits on the
    Paracast forums verbatim, without mentioning his name.
    It took minimal effort to verify the identity of that
    person, a one Ken Solomon. After I pointed out this
    fact out in our forums, Hrn demanded that we remove
    the reference to his name, that Mr. Solomon had called
    him and complained about the mention of his name,
    within the same day of the post (who knew the Paracast
    enjoyed such a wide reach?). I emailed Hrn and
    informed him that we'd have to hear directly from Mr.
    Solomon before removing the reference. Within moments,
    we received this email:

    ---------

    From: "Melanie ." <[email protected]>
    To: [email protected]
    CC: [email protected]
    Subject: Notice!
    Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 14:36:45 -0400

    You wanted a direct response? This is it.

    Kindly remove my name immediately from your website or
    any other
    recorded or
    rebroadcastable media under you or your associates
    control. Your
    cooperation
    will be greatly appreciated.
    Thank you.

    Ken Solomon

    ---------------------

    The fact that a formal request was supposedly sent
    from a highly suspect email source address aside,
    subsequent attempts to verify that Mr. Solomon was the
    actual source of this email have produced nothing.
    It's my belief that Hrn is the source of the email,
    and that Mr. Solomon has no idea that his name
    has been used by Hrn.

    The critical piece of information here is that Hrn
    has shown his true nature on the Paracast forums (as
    well as an infamous thread on the influential ATS
    site), in that he will lie without hesitation, in
    order to further his agenda and keep the Meier case
    alive in the eyes of what he referred to in a private
    email as "customers". Without written, notarized
    statements from his "witnesses", he has nothing. There
    has been no recent, independent review of ANY physical
    "evidence", be it metal samples, original film, police
    reports or anything else that would conclusively
    support ANY of Meier's paranormal claims. Ritzmann has
    offered to have his original film negatives analyzed
    in conjunction with an original negative of Meier's,
    and can you imagine, nada from Meier or orn.
    Shocking.

    Jeff Ritzmann responded to Hrn's tired - and grossly
    illogical - demands to recreate a photograph with
    dated technology. Jeff's images are comparable to the
    Meier pictures, which besides proving nothing, met
    Hrn's challenge directly. In response, Hrn
    immediately began a campaign of slander, accusations
    and general nastiness, the kind of abusive poison he
    seems to vent at everyone expressing serious doubts of
    the Meier case (which would be anyone taking this
    topic seriously). That Jeff didn't take the time to
    exactly match the specific surface details - down to
    the same pegs, including the one that fell off and is
    sitting on "The Cake" - has been brought up by Hrn
    repeatedly, and is divorced from any actual relevance
    to the fact that Meier had plenty of time - and
    potential help - to make this stuff. It's not like the
    models are particularly good - I've seen better stuff
    by creative kids - and the nightime shots of the cakey
    and tree and car are ridiculous. My trained eyes know
    this, but so do my girlfriend's kids, without
    hesitation. That anyone buys those pictures is just
    sad. You would think that in today's world, visual
    sophistication should be more evolved, but apparently
    the gap between spirit and technology is alive and
    well.

    Hrn claims to be a worker of the light. He actually
    seems to take perverse pleasure in negative exchanges,
    like the upcoming punch-up (at a wedding) with Kal
    Korff. If you take the time to read the main Hrn
    thread on the Paracast forums, it's really quite
    enlightening and rather disturbing. Hrn is selling
    Billy Meier's philosophical rants, and most of us
    ain't buying. Jeff Ritzmann sells gorgeous customized
    guitars, cool axes that any Iron Maiden fan would
    worship. You can't buy any UFO products from Jeff, but
    he'll tell you some really amazing stories of stuff
    that happened to him. Free. On The Paracast. We're not
    selling anything either - for now. If we decide to
    sell something at some point in the future, it will
    contain some integrity, which is a whole lot more than
    the stories Hrn will sell you now, or ever.

    You can believe anything you want. If knowledge and
    understanding are important to you, this junk is a
    waste of time. I choose to spend my efforts on
    legitimate, credible cases which might get us even one
    step closer to unraveling this enigma which we NEED to
    understand.

    David Biedny
    The Paracast
     
  2. morrison1976

    morrison1976 Paranormal Adept

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    He is a scary man indeed! He seems to get some sort of kick out of these disscussions. What i would do is just remove the thread! as simple as that. There are more important cases to be discussed, not this rubbish!
     
  3. Paul Kimball

    Paul Kimball Guest

    Yes, good ole MH - I had my own lengthy run in with him over a year ago at my blog, which finally led to:

    http://redstarfilms.blogspot.com/2005/07/meier-meier-pants-on-fire.html

    As I said then, Im not offended by the fact that Meier's story is a hoax (I like a good joke as much as the next guy) - I'm offended by the fact that it's such a bad one. ;)

    Paul
     
  4. cottonzway

    cottonzway I was saying boo-urns

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    I have only gotten a chance to listen to the about half of it. I'll listen to the second half tonight. So far so good. They only thing I would bring up is talking about Meier is it's shooting ducks in a barrell. I think now it's just giving them what they want, attention.
     
  5. Paul Kimball

    Paul Kimball Guest

    I agree. Besides, there are lots of other frauds and hoaxers out there to expose (which Myers does pretty well at ufowatchdog.com). Unfortunately, ufology is replete with them, and, as I've said elsewhere, they muddy the waters for the good people, both researchers and witnesses, in the eyes of the public, the media, and science.

    Paul
     
  6. mjw

    mjw Paranormal Adept

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    After looking at, not reading, but just looking at all of the stuff that MH has written on all of these different sites it made me realise that he must make a decent living being Meier's right-hand henchman. Working people like myself don't have time to spend reading emails and forums and responding to those emails and forum posts all day the way MH has. Sending nasty emails and writing on forums seems to be a full time job for MH. I should see if Meier would let me be his US representative as I am much more friendly than MH and from what I have seen I'm also better looking. Maybe Meier will pay me more than what he gives MH.
     
  7. Guy.W

    Guy.W Guest

    Well m/ (devil "horns") said it best when he was thanking our resident knuckleheads :eek: for all the hits his site got. I Wonder how much stuff he sold
     
  8. morrison1976

    morrison1976 Paranormal Adept

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    Im sorry but some of the photos are not even good fakes, why can't you see this! it just amazes me that you and other believers are so brainwashed by this case, this in reality is the reason why some people laugh at this subject.
    The only reason why i feel you are doing this is because you are making money out of it. I cant really see how you can believe this! some of the photos are just a joke! The ray gun( my fav ) the dinosour( which was a copy of a picture) the alien girl( that turned out to be someone from earth, and on tv) the ufo above the care and by the tree at night( joke, it has to be some sort of joke!!! ) This is just a few of the lame photo evidence that i have seen in this case.
     
  9. "IRREPRODUCIBLE"??? :eek:

    Wow, it's difficult to stay mad as someone so inept.

    The Meier photos are so obviously fake. I don't have an ounce of training in photography nor do I need it for a case this blatantly false. I do have 30 + years of opened eyes on planet Earth (and a background in set design and window display) and I can plainly see that those ridiculous photos look like stills from films that little 14 year-old Spielberg wannabes make behind their garages or like tableaux from a bad department store window. Give me a break!

    He Who Shall Not be Named can whine and moan and clog the message boards with badly phrased, poorly spelled screeds, diatribes and polemics but the photos are still fake.

    Stop wasting your time propping up your cult and look into a remedial English course!
     
  10. jritzmann

    jritzmann Paranormal Adept

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    EDIT:Incredibly pathetic. Ya know what, I said I was done with these losers, and I am.

    How's that for restraint. ;D
     
  11. CapnG

    CapnG Devil's Advocate

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    Commendable.
     
  12. TerraX

    TerraX Guest

    On the subject off the multiple exposure, Horn claims it can't be done. And that's strange because a few former members of Meier cult have done the exact same thing;
    http://www.billymeier.com/Periodicals/Bulletin_10.html
     
  13. TerraX

    TerraX Guest

    No emotions involved here but since Meier spend 4.5 years in prison and the insane asylum which he busted out from, joined and then deserted from the French Foreign Legion, logic would suggest he's a con man. Although truth can be harsh when you look at it in this way I haven't seen Horn mention this in one of his lectures. Did we miss something?
     
  14. David Biedny

    David Biedny Paranormal Adept

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    I've removed the Meierite propaganda posted by MH's parrot, I will NOT tolerate any of his nonsense on these forums.

    You're on notice, Newinitiation, one more post along those lines and you're banned.
     
  15. meciar

    meciar Guest

    ok, having skimmed through most of this thread, I just want to say ignore the attention seekers. I'm glad many of you are showing restraint :)

    As for the Roundtable discussion, I thought it was a good show albiet with a lot of commercials as was pointed out. It offered some good insight into the good, bad and the ugly
     
  16. Gene Steinberg

    Gene Steinberg Forum Super Hero Staff Member

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    A lot of commercials?

    Hey, we have only a fraction of what the other shows offer. And we do have to make a couple of bucks, right? :)
     
  17. Rick Deckard

    Rick Deckard Paranormal Adept

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    I don't mind the commercials - as long as the show remains free, I'll keep listening...
     
  18. Gene Steinberg

    Gene Steinberg Forum Super Hero Staff Member

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    That's the reason for the ads and the link on our home page where we'll even take donations :)
     
  19. meciar

    meciar Guest

    Yes I agree, I was just saying it seemed more than normal is all :)

    I've noticed that with quality shows often comes commercials pretty much no matter what. Obviously it takes money and time etc to get quality shows like this running.

    I'm a fan of the paracast after all (obviously because I'm on your forums). As you've mentioned in previous episodes selling merchandise like t-shirts and mugs might be cool. I'd get one to support the show I like!
     
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