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Post Roundtable



David Biedny

Paranormal Adept
Folks,

These are my VERY last words on the Meier nonsense. He Who Shall Not Be Named? is Hrn, for the sake of visual brevity (bypassing our lovely text replacement routine). It is being sent to the Victor Martinez list today.
--------------------------

Last Friday, Jeff Ritmann and Michael Hrn appeared on
a radio show to "debate" the validity of the Billy
Meier's claims regarding photos of what he says are
actual spaceships. Jeff agreed to do this show after
Hrn had been naming Jeff on a previous appearance of
said show, when Ritzmann called in to clarify the
issues surrounding his recreations of photos that had
originally been done in response to a challenge by
Hrn.

Hrn challenged me to analyze and prove that a
specific photo of a Meier "UFO" was either fake or
genuine. Based on my analysis, it was clear that the
photo in question was absolutely fabricated. NO
QUESTION. Numerous problems with the lighting, the
artifacts of cloth from the light element plate, lack
of reflections and other clear indications of a
composite image, purposefully faked. It's not like
this surprised me - the vast majority of the Meier
images look fake to me, and unlike Hrn, I am indeed
professionally qualified to make this statement.

Hrn was given ample opportunity to address my
findings, on our show and message forums, and true to
his (apparently well-documented) style, proceeded to
evade, ignore, distort and do everything BUT answer
some simple questions about my findings. He then
proceeded to engage in a deeply disturbing and extreme
display of deceipt, fabrication of people and events,
abusive behaviour and downright psychotic craziness,
which forced us to bar him from our forums, after
multiple warnings.

Hrn has since been served with a formal cease and
desist notice, to stop harrassing me with unwelcome
emails, as well as receiving similar demands from Gene
Steinberg, Jeff Ritzmann and Royce Meyers. He
continued his emails to the point where we were
recently forced to take formal action with his ISP -
his website was shut down for a few days in response.
He continues to send emails to us, regardless of our
requests for him to stop. Here's a recent from him:

-----------

GS, DB, UFOW, JR,

Hey there knuckleheads, how the heck are ya!?!?

I just wanted to thank y'all for the tireless work
that you've done
to help me record the 4,000,000th visitor to
www.theyfly.com. While
I'm sure I could've done it without ya, every little
bit of help
certainly - helps!

It's truly heartwarming to see how the envious efforts
of a couple of
dolts have kept my name alive on their little internet
forum and how
the cowardly sniping and defaming by an
I-dare-not-show-my-face
parasite has driven over a good number of inquisitive
types, some of
whom have become (look out for the dreaded "C" word) -
customers!

And let's not forget the whining and griping from our
resident cake
pan model maker, without whose efforts the genuine,
authentic, and
incomparably clear reality of Meier's photos, films
and video would
not have been so immediately perceptible to soooooooo
many people.

So, Season's Greetings, be of good cheer and - keep on
defaming,
griping and whining (kinda sounds like a law firm,
doesn't it?) -
it's what you do best!

From me, lovable little ol',

MH

----------------------

According to Hrn, Meier fans are "customers".

He complained to the host of the radio show last week
that he was not allowed to express himself on the
Paracast message forums. He declined to mention why he
was banned, or any of the specifics of his experience
with our show. He is now claiming that the four of us
engaged in a bashing session on The Paracast this
week, without allowing him to present his "arguments"
or "point of view".

In my own experiences with Hrn, his has shown an
absolute willingness to invent discussions,
selectively quote and flagrantly misquote people in
order to cloak and distort the truth. In a thread on
The Paracast discussion forums, he was caught
red-handed in the process of a libelous, slanderous
scheme to harm me on a personal and professional
level. In response to my sharing the story of a major
UFO encounter in Caracas, Venezuela in the summer of
1974 (the topic of the fifth episode of The Paracast),
Hrn publicly claimed that I fabricated this encounter
in order to start a UFO cult (a clear projection of
his own internal awareness of the reality of the Meier
case). He has questioned my professional credentials
as a leading Photoshop and imaging expert, facts amply
documented and easily verified. He has stated that my
findings about the the image I analyzed (which I found
to me a multiple-exposure composite) were flawed -
specifically, he misquoted me saying that the picture
is a _double exposure_, and says that a friend of his
- who he won't name, but who has "50 years of
experience" in the special effects world - says that
I'm wrong, that it's a "triple exposure". Or course,
regardless of the method of multiple exposure, or fact
that Hrn has NEVER addressed ANY of the other MANY
problems I discovered in the picture, he has never
responded to my finding that the picture is clearly
fabricated.

I have followed up with select folks he often mentions
in his rants, who have told me directly that they want
nothing to do with him, that he is misrepresenting
their statements or even knowing them or
ever speaking with them. In the latest exchange
regarding Ritzmann, Hrn is now quoting "forestry
experts" in regards to what he claims are scientific
statements about the size of the trees photographed
with the hoaxed disc models. Without providing
written, notarized documents from these people, he has
no proof that they made any statements regarding this
issue, or that he has ever actually been in
communication with any of them.

Worthy of particular mention is that "50-year FX
veteran", who Hrn refused to name, but apparently has
an entry at IMDB.com. Hrn posted his credits on the
Paracast forums verbatim, without mentioning his name.
It took minimal effort to verify the identity of that
person, a one Ken Solomon. After I pointed out this
fact out in our forums, Hrn demanded that we remove
the reference to his name, that Mr. Solomon had called
him and complained about the mention of his name,
within the same day of the post (who knew the Paracast
enjoyed such a wide reach?). I emailed Hrn and
informed him that we'd have to hear directly from Mr.
Solomon before removing the reference. Within moments,
we received this email:

---------

From: "Melanie ." <chocolatecreamsoda@hotmail.com>
To: gene@theparacast.com
CC: dbiedny@yahoo.com
Subject: Notice!
Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 14:36:45 -0400

You wanted a direct response? This is it.

Kindly remove my name immediately from your website or
any other
recorded or
rebroadcastable media under you or your associates
control. Your
cooperation
will be greatly appreciated.
Thank you.

Ken Solomon

---------------------

The fact that a formal request was supposedly sent
from a highly suspect email source address aside,
subsequent attempts to verify that Mr. Solomon was the
actual source of this email have produced nothing.
It's my belief that Hrn is the source of the email,
and that Mr. Solomon has no idea that his name
has been used by Hrn.

The critical piece of information here is that Hrn
has shown his true nature on the Paracast forums (as
well as an infamous thread on the influential ATS
site), in that he will lie without hesitation, in
order to further his agenda and keep the Meier case
alive in the eyes of what he referred to in a private
email as "customers". Without written, notarized
statements from his "witnesses", he has nothing. There
has been no recent, independent review of ANY physical
"evidence", be it metal samples, original film, police
reports or anything else that would conclusively
support ANY of Meier's paranormal claims. Ritzmann has
offered to have his original film negatives analyzed
in conjunction with an original negative of Meier's,
and can you imagine, nada from Meier or orn.
Shocking.

Jeff Ritzmann responded to Hrn's tired - and grossly
illogical - demands to recreate a photograph with
dated technology. Jeff's images are comparable to the
Meier pictures, which besides proving nothing, met
Hrn's challenge directly. In response, Hrn
immediately began a campaign of slander, accusations
and general nastiness, the kind of abusive poison he
seems to vent at everyone expressing serious doubts of
the Meier case (which would be anyone taking this
topic seriously). That Jeff didn't take the time to
exactly match the specific surface details - down to
the same pegs, including the one that fell off and is
sitting on "The Cake" - has been brought up by Hrn
repeatedly, and is divorced from any actual relevance
to the fact that Meier had plenty of time - and
potential help - to make this stuff. It's not like the
models are particularly good - I've seen better stuff
by creative kids - and the nightime shots of the cakey
and tree and car are ridiculous. My trained eyes know
this, but so do my girlfriend's kids, without
hesitation. That anyone buys those pictures is just
sad. You would think that in today's world, visual
sophistication should be more evolved, but apparently
the gap between spirit and technology is alive and
well.

Hrn claims to be a worker of the light. He actually
seems to take perverse pleasure in negative exchanges,
like the upcoming punch-up (at a wedding) with Kal
Korff. If you take the time to read the main Hrn
thread on the Paracast forums, it's really quite
enlightening and rather disturbing. Hrn is selling
Billy Meier's philosophical rants, and most of us
ain't buying. Jeff Ritzmann sells gorgeous customized
guitars, cool axes that any Iron Maiden fan would
worship. You can't buy any UFO products from Jeff, but
he'll tell you some really amazing stories of stuff
that happened to him. Free. On The Paracast. We're not
selling anything either - for now. If we decide to
sell something at some point in the future, it will
contain some integrity, which is a whole lot more than
the stories Hrn will sell you now, or ever.

You can believe anything you want. If knowledge and
understanding are important to you, this junk is a
waste of time. I choose to spend my efforts on
legitimate, credible cases which might get us even one
step closer to unraveling this enigma which we NEED to
understand.

David Biedny
The Paracast
 

morrison1976

Skilled Investigator
He is a scary man indeed! He seems to get some sort of kick out of these disscussions. What i would do is just remove the thread! as simple as that. There are more important cases to be discussed, not this rubbish!
 

cottonzway

I was saying boo-urns
I have only gotten a chance to listen to the about half of it. I'll listen to the second half tonight. So far so good. They only thing I would bring up is talking about Meier is it's shooting ducks in a barrell. I think now it's just giving them what they want, attention.
 
P

Paul Kimball

Guest
cottonzway said:
They only thing I would bring up is talking about Meier is it's shooting ducks in a barrell. I think now it's just giving them what they want, attention.
I agree. Besides, there are lots of other frauds and hoaxers out there to expose (which Myers does pretty well at ufowatchdog.com). Unfortunately, ufology is replete with them, and, as I've said elsewhere, they muddy the waters for the good people, both researchers and witnesses, in the eyes of the public, the media, and science.

Paul
 

mjw

Skilled Investigator
After looking at, not reading, but just looking at all of the stuff that MH has written on all of these different sites it made me realise that he must make a decent living being Meier's right-hand henchman. Working people like myself don't have time to spend reading emails and forums and responding to those emails and forum posts all day the way MH has. Sending nasty emails and writing on forums seems to be a full time job for MH. I should see if Meier would let me be his US representative as I am much more friendly than MH and from what I have seen I'm also better looking. Maybe Meier will pay me more than what he gives MH.
 
G

Guy.W

Guest
Well m/ (devil "horns") said it best when he was thanking our resident knuckleheads :eek: for all the hits his site got. I Wonder how much stuff he sold
 

morrison1976

Skilled Investigator
Im sorry but some of the photos are not even good fakes, why can't you see this! it just amazes me that you and other believers are so brainwashed by this case, this in reality is the reason why some people laugh at this subject.
The only reason why i feel you are doing this is because you are making money out of it. I cant really see how you can believe this! some of the photos are just a joke! The ray gun( my fav ) the dinosour( which was a copy of a picture) the alien girl( that turned out to be someone from earth, and on tv) the ufo above the care and by the tree at night( joke, it has to be some sort of joke!!! ) This is just a few of the lame photo evidence that i have seen in this case.
 
I

interestedINitall

Guest
"IRREPRODUCIBLE"??? :eek:

Wow, it's difficult to stay mad as someone so inept.

The Meier photos are so obviously fake. I don't have an ounce of training in photography nor do I need it for a case this blatantly false. I do have 30 + years of opened eyes on planet Earth (and a background in set design and window display) and I can plainly see that those ridiculous photos look like stills from films that little 14 year-old Spielberg wannabes make behind their garages or like tableaux from a bad department store window. Give me a break!

He Who Shall Not be Named can whine and moan and clog the message boards with badly phrased, poorly spelled screeds, diatribes and polemics but the photos are still fake.

Stop wasting your time propping up your cult and look into a remedial English course!
 

jritzmann

Skilled Investigator
EDIT:Incredibly pathetic. Ya know what, I said I was done with these losers, and I am.

How's that for restraint. ;D
 
T

TerraX

Guest
newinitiatio said:
MH: Not so fast, pal! NOT "regardless of the method of multiple
exposure"! Aren't YOU the expert, aren't you the one claiming hoax?
Well, DUPLICATE the damn thing and show us just what that method of
exposure really was...Folks he can't do it, they can't do it, you can't do it, I can't do it....Meier CAN because the photos (film, video, sound recordings, metals alloys, etc. are authentic).
On the subject off the multiple exposure, Horn claims it can't be done. And that's strange because a few former members of Meier cult have done the exact same thing;
http://www.billymeier.com/Periodicals/Bulletin_10.html
 
T

TerraX

Guest
newinitiatio said:
MH tells it like it is and that is the nature of harsh language of truth to which you folks need to understand. Logic ladies and gentlemen should be applied instead of emotions
Billy Meier's case is real and you know it.
No emotions involved here but since Meier spend 4.5 years in prison and the insane asylum which he busted out from, joined and then deserted from the French Foreign Legion, logic would suggest he's a con man. Although truth can be harsh when you look at it in this way I haven't seen Horn mention this in one of his lectures. Did we miss something?
 

David Biedny

Paranormal Adept
I've removed the Meierite propaganda posted by MH's parrot, I will NOT tolerate any of his nonsense on these forums.

You're on notice, Newinitiation, one more post along those lines and you're banned.
 
M

meciar

Guest
ok, having skimmed through most of this thread, I just want to say ignore the attention seekers. I'm glad many of you are showing restraint :)

As for the Roundtable discussion, I thought it was a good show albiet with a lot of commercials as was pointed out. It offered some good insight into the good, bad and the ugly
 

Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
meciar said:
ok, having skimmed through most of this thread, I just want to say ignore the attention seekers. I'm glad many of you are showing restraint :)

As for the Roundtable discussion, I thought it was a good show albiet with a lot of commercials as was pointed out. It offered some good insight into the good, bad and the ugly
A lot of commercials?

Hey, we have only a fraction of what the other shows offer. And we do have to make a couple of bucks, right? :)
 

Rick Deckard

Paranormal Maven
Gene Steinberg said:
A lot of commercials?

Hey, we have only a fraction of what the other shows offer. And we do have to make a couple of bucks, right? :)
I don't mind the commercials - as long as the show remains free, I'll keep listening...
 

Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
Rick Deckard said:
I don't mind the commercials - as long as the show remains free, I'll keep listening...
That's the reason for the ads and the link on our home page where we'll even take donations :)
 
M

meciar

Guest
Gene Steinberg said:
A lot of commercials?

Hey, we have only a fraction of what the other shows offer. And we do have to make a couple of bucks, right? :)
Yes I agree, I was just saying it seemed more than normal is all :)

I've noticed that with quality shows often comes commercials pretty much no matter what. Obviously it takes money and time etc to get quality shows like this running.

I'm a fan of the paracast after all (obviously because I'm on your forums). As you've mentioned in previous episodes selling merchandise like t-shirts and mugs might be cool. I'd get one to support the show I like!
 



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