Politics of Global Warming

[mike_thoth]

Fair enough Tyger I will post questions on the correct forum as you are quite correct. I will just post news items here to cover the politics of it, that is a just topic in of itself.

 

[mike]

"AND HERE THE Catholic tradition comes up against something very difficult. That tradition, as critics insist, is indeed ill equipped to deal with a problem that is simultaneously social/political and individual/moral. Yet these dimensions are intertwined in the matter of climate change, since all humans, not just corporations and governments, are implicated in the burning of fossil fuels and the resultant atmospheric changes. How to balance individual moral responsibility, described in the moral teachings of the church, against a general Catholic or human responsibility as developed in more than a century of modern Catholic social teaching?

IMO the popes input demonstrates yet again the core of the problem.

Its the same old symptom vs the cause problem.

We are talking about an organisation that forbids contraception, favouring "Growth" of its subscriber base.

Oh my! If I could speak to Pope Francis directly, I would say: “Really? You are in the Philippines urging people to deal with widespread poverty and you include in your talk an anti-contraception message? Really? Do you see no contradiction in those messages?”

Francis, contraception and climate change | National Catholic Reporter

contraception and climate change - Bing

The pope will apparently recommend reduction in the use of fossil fuels. Sure, yes, that will help and virtually everyone agrees that should be done. Of course, how to bring about this reduction in fossil fuels without adverse economic consequences is a subject of much debate, and here, apparently, the pope has nothing to offer but nostrums. Exhortations to lead a simpler life and a call for richer nations to assist poorer nations in the transition away from fossil fuels sound more like wishful thinking than practical solutions.
There is one very practical measure, immediately realizable and eminently feasible that is, as it were, staring the pope right in the face: The pope should not only end the Catholic Church's morally absurd and repugnant opposition to contraception, but should urge all families to engage in responsible family planning.
Reducing population growth would have a substantial positive effect on the reduction of greenhouse gas emissions. One persuasive scientific analysis indicates that reducing population growth could help achieve 37 percent to 41 percent of the targeted reduction in emissions by the end of the century.

The Pope Needs to Change the Climate on Contraception | Ronald A. Lindsay

 

[Robert Baird]

Radioactive Waste heating our Oceans
Of course there are many reasons to be concerned about radioactive waste. Maybe you will be lucky enough to have new technology address your children's mutations before they are born.

Cactus Dome in the Pacific is leaking radioactive material into the Pacific and affecting the water temperature which might soon melt the glaciers. The atomic testing in the French Polynesian Islands is not going away. Like the Energizer bunny it keeps on giving or going. There is nothing being done to stop the release of methane and nitrous oxide from the Tundra which alone can raise the water level enough to cause most humanity to have to move (Where?). I saw a TV show with a scientist talking about this occurring in this present decade.

"Lots of good thinking here. Maybe some day the US will admit they went the radioactive route for military reasons - rather than Thorium. Maybe the US is responsible along with their allies like Canada whose Chalk River site offered my father a job after the war and his time in Nuremberg.

Ufology said something which adds to a larger issue than Fukashima.

internationally approved nuclear waste dump site ( wherever that is ).

One such site was built while I lived in Vegas. They built it in Yucca Mountain. After the LA earthquake centered near Lake Arrowhead the foundation of my house had a crack. Yucca Mountain is closer to LA. The whole area has many fault lines, The different kind of earthquake that hit LA more directly and caused more damage due to underground cross currents of energy (I forget the terminology for this kind of earthquake.) was measured at less energy on the Richter Scale. It has less effect on me in Vegas than the above noted one. I was in the house when this one hit and it shook my house a little - Vegas is over 150 miles away.

Having discussed how to get rid of Nuclear waste most of my life, I know there is no easy answer. It was said by some in this thread that containers can be used. Be careful about that if you live near Utah where nerve gas canisters are eroding. I have suggested sending such things by spacecraft into our sun, but how does one get it close enough to combust without disintegrating and polluting a large area of our solar system. Maybe one of you people who talk to the Watchers can get them to help."

https://www.theparacast.com/forum/thr...e-earth.13805/

 

[mike]

In short the pope has no moral authority to talk about climate change, His organisation has as a matter of policy the codification forbiding the practise of contraception, which is actually one of the better tools we have in dealing with the root cause.

His answer seems to be we should all live a bit simpler, consume a bit less. lower the quality of our lifestyles as a solution.

And again that mindset is actually part of the problem, in that its short termed thinking.

Take a cake, if there are 6 people at the party they get a slice X big each.
12 people and the slices are smaller
24, and they are smaller still

The cake is finite, yes everyone can do with less so everyone gets some, but there still comes a point where if shared equally amoung a large group of people the amount they each get is negligable.

The popes solution is for us all to take smaller slices, while we pile on more people, but eventually no matter how simply we are living there will still be too many people for the finite system to provide for.

 

[mike]

. I have suggested sending such things by spacecraft into our sun, but how does one get it close enough to combust without disintegrating and polluting a large area of our solar system.

If we get the space elevator projects up and running that would be a viable solution, I dont see disintegration as an issue, since the cannisters and contents will have considerable momentum in addition to the gravitational effects from the sun itself.

Hopefully though the various fussion projects will pan out soon and we can use them instead.

High beta fusion reactor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A technology thats safer than fission, and cheaper than coal is what we need

 

[Robert Baird]

Yes, I suppose that is true if the craft makes it close enough without being hit by debris. I guess the solar flares are not throwing off debris - or are they? Space elevators would take the cannisters close enough? I have not seen that.

As to energy sources - there are many cheaper than coal and safer than fission. Tesla - see Pine Gap. Cold fusion - see Mallove. Solar soon as well.

 

[mike_thoth]

You were warned by one of your greatest statesmen, who could it see coming.

Eisenhower's Farewell Address to the Nation

Eisenhower’s true words still ring valid today, with the great global warming scam.


The prospect of domination of the nation’s scholars by Federal employment, project funding, and the power of money is ever present – and is gravely to be regarded.

This post is bang on the money. That farewell address is commonly used to demonstrate the rise of the MIC. But what he saw most clearly was that if science was to rely purely on the funding of governments, then politics would ultimately rule over the results of said research.

Eisenhower absolutely nailed it and you see the results of this today. I collect a sort of digital scrap book of news items that appear every day in the media. Here is a list of some of the stories I have collected over the past week, only one worth any kind of scientific value, but bear in mind these stories are recycled daily, around the world in digital print and in newspapers, especially by the likes of the Guardian newspaper as they have taken the full zealot side of this debate. Just before I post these, there are those who think that this climate change issue is about clean air and pollution. Its not. What this is about is a left sided agenda where democracy is very slowly being eroded. The Paris treaty due to be signed in another attempt to subvert the western nations and to redistribute wealth.

They have traditionally kept the negotiating documents secret but these have been exposed by researchers and the reading is very grim indeed. The Copenhagen meeting back several years ago was essentially trying to setup 1,000 international interlocking bureaucracies which would control everything in our lives down to the amount of energy we could be expected to use.

Earth Headed for a Mini Ice Age - The only valid story. Russian scientists have been predicting this for years.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/11733369/Earth-heading-for-mini-ice-age-within-15-years.html

Another valid one
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/environment/globalwarming/11395516/The-fiddling-with-temperature-data-is-the-biggest-science-scandal-ever.html

Poor Ones
Climate Change could undermine health advances for the last 50 years
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/environment/climatechange/11692264/Climate-change-could-undermine-the-last-50-years-of-health-advances.html

Loafs of bread could become smaller because of climate change
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/australia/11690772/Latest-victim-of-global-warming-loaves-of-bread-will-be-smaller-in-future-warn-scientists.html

Polar Bears Eating Dolphins Because of…….climate Change
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/arctic/11670479/Polar-bears-have-started-eating-dolphins-due-to-climate-change.html

Air Travel could become longer due to climate change.
http://www.climatedepot.com/2015/07/13/study-climate-change-could-lengthen-the-flight-times-of-some-air-travel/

BBC Climate Non Story
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-33507462

Hot dog lovers beware
Global warming causing hot dogs to slip out of buns

Global Warming causes Sharks to Bite
http://www.newsmax.com/US/National-Geographic-Shark-Attacks/2015/07/01/id/653128/

Most of these stories are always led by the word "could". The reason is that they are using computer models to make estimations. The major point for me collect these is to reflect on the stupidity of so many of the papers being written, and the amount of scientists around the world who would lose their shirt should Global Warming be proven a scam, which it will be in my opinion. The recent exposure of data tampering is just the latest issue, because the last 20 years (between 18-20 depending on dataset) we have had a confirmed pause in warming, what the usual suspects have been doing is cleverly adjusting past temperatures to make todays appear warmer. The Global Warming Policy Foundation in the UK is currently investigating these data adjustments and when the report comes out, please forget that this is s sceptical group. If data tampering is found and clear, then the report will deserve reading regardless of the author.

My only comment in Pope Francis (who I have supported in many of his stances over the past year) is that he has been sold a lie. The measures these green ideologues wish to impose would damage the poor and he is only trying to follow what his advisors have told him. Who is the main advisor here?

Enter Hans Schellnhuber
This guy is a Malthusian fanatic and a complete eco nut. He is in James Hansen territory with his predictions (each one found false) and based on terribly shoddy science. I point to this article written about him and the kind of science he writes aabout even when writing in peer reviewed publications like the worlds premier journal Science (it is my belief that even this journal has gone off the deep end).
The Scientific Pantheist Who Advises Pope Francis | The Stream

With all the stories the would be sceptical thinking is overwhelmed with the force this is being pushed onto people with. He/She sees the multiple angles that this nonsense is coming at them from and basically thinks it is proven. It isn't and in time the whole thing will come crashing down.

Michael

 

[Robert Baird]

Dear Michael

The journal Nature is definitely run for propaganda purposes. Their stance and cover ups in the Olduvai Gorge being run by Yale and the Leakey Gang is a major issue. They have also been part of the lies in Mexico regarding the Maya/Olmec. I know of many others and not just in the USA or on their own.

I trace these things to the era of Attorney-General Palmer who also brought us J.Edgar Hoover - nuff said I hope. Funding as you say is a key area of control. If they did not do these things the nations of the world would be made to disgorge their ill-gotten gains and hopefully disbanded. This goes back to the Treaty of Westphalia and a re-working of the Divine Right of Kings and Manifest Destiny. (See The Club of Athens call for changes to Sovereign Rights.)

I supported the US non-signing of Kyoto for the reasons you say. There is a solution to pollution - nanobots can harvest pollutants now. But Global Warming is happening due to the release of methane from the Tundra - and it is happening VERY soon. Naomi Klein of Canada was a spokesperson in a documentary my oldest brother saw recently that says we are past the tipping point.

I also can conceive a solution to the issue but it involves things very classified - and a fall-back de-population plan laid out in the Georgia Guideposts.

There are many free energy sources covered in my thread Earth Computer Projector - here is an ancient one from that thread.

Forms are well known for their ability to focus energy. It is more than mere amplification such as occurs in a magnifying glass. It creates order such as a trapezoid room does in helping maintain brain firing balance for a schizophrenic. Is it useful to think of these forms like the two perfect tetrahedral in the Great Pyramid even though we really don't have the science of why or how the Pyramid used energy and distributed it as fully understood as we should? There is a whole lot we can learn from the following author.

"By Jerry W. Decker www.keelynet.com
PO Box 111786
Carrollton, TX 75011

There are fields of study which are relatively unknown to the general public. Though 'Pyramid Power' is well known, few have pursued it to other geometric forms and the phenomena which can be produced by understanding what is happening. Some of the key early researchers into Shape Power and the more specific Pyramid Power include Pavlita {See my article on Pavlita Generators.}, Belizal, Turenne, Drbal and Flanagan. Practical Aether Engineering is accomplished in nature by the use of various geometric forms and patterns as witnessed in the Fibonacci series, fractals, tiles, cones and tetrahedral shapes. Entomologist Phil Callahan has shown how insects and some plants use geometric shapes to collect and transmit electromagnetic and acoustic waves. When one understands that Aether, being the basic substrate of the universe, can be interferred with to such a degree as to produce all manner of energy and matter aggregations, it follows that everything is a result of Aether Engineering to various degrees.

Dan Davidson has been on the cutting edge of the aether engineering field for most of his adult life. In our many discussions and information exchanges over the years, I have found Dan to be one of the most reliable, consistent and serious investigators I've had the privilege to know. Few people have Dan's natural ability to cut to the chase and look for what is practical in the alternative science fields, as opposed to those who prefer to promote phenomena as unknowable mysteries or unproven claims. It takes not only a great amount of dedication and perseverance, but also a considerable investment of personal time and money to make a difference. I have found that Dan puts his money and time where his mouth is and actually does the experiments to refute or validate claims.

One other key gift that I have found Dan to possess is his openness to use other than mechanistic approaches in the study of alternative science. For instance, in some cases, Metaphysics is just as valid a tool as is the use of hardware and it is a rare gift indeed to be able and willing to fill in those missing gaps by using information derived from such sources.

As far as I'm concerned, it is irrelevant as to the information sources that lead to a new technology, only that it works as claimed and can be replicated by others and put into practical use by everyone.

When you read Shape Power, you should keep in mind that Dan is describing a form of aether engineering in its early stages. Recent and current events lend ever greater credence to the idea that long dead civilizations understood these aether principles and used them in their everyday lives. I believe that what you will read in Shape Power is a description of what will eventually lead to radical new technologies. The essence of how geometric patterns can influence energy flows is exactly the same as how antennas and other resonating structures work. Since everything resonates and establishes an information and energy transfer between two or more resonant bodies, then a two dimensional pattern can precisely resonate to a three dimensional structure.

Just as a microwave horn or an antenna collects or transmits wave energy, so too can geometric patterns be used to collect, transmit or modulate surrounding energy fields, including aether. 17th century Cymatics researcher Ernst Chaldni found that vibrating waveplates would allow you to actually see sound waves as a two dimensional image. Hans Jenny discovered how to expand these two dimensional images into three dimensional."

http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Davidson.pdf

 

[mike]

Yes, I suppose that is true if the craft makes it close enough without being hit by debris. I guess the solar flares are not throwing off debris - or are they? Space elevators would take the cannisters close enough? I have not seen that.

No space elevators in the context of getting the cannisters into orbit safely. From there they can be fired at the sun.

As opposed to getting them into orbit via rockets. That wont ever happen because rockets all too often blow up, Using rockets to get the waste offplanet is an unacceptable risk given the potential to create the worlds nastiest dirty bomb in the process.

Once the realm of science fiction, a Japanese company has announced they will have a space elevator up and running by the year 2050.
If successful it would revolutionise space travel and potentially transform the global economy.
The Japanese construction giant Obayashi says they will build a space elevator that will reach 96,000 kilometres into space.
Robotic cars powered by magnetic linear motors will carry people and cargo to a newly-built space station, at a fraction of the cost of rockets. It will take seven days to get there.
The company said the fantasy can now become a reality because of the development of carbon nanotechnology

Japanese construction giant Obayashi announces plans to have a space elevator up and running by 2050 - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

That aside we still need to find a cleaner way to generate peak load electricity. But a space elevator could allow us to get rid of the waste we already have. Fission reactors are still a dangerous proposition and should be banned given what happened in Japan.

 

[Robert Baird]

Thanks Mike

I knew about nanotech space elevators since Arthur C. Clarke but I had not considered sending cannisters from the platform. They could put a small ion propeller with guidance on them if 'firing' them is an issue. That same platform could bring Helium III back from the moon. One Space Shuttle load will power the needs of the US for a year. It can be processed in existing nuclear plants. Or it can be turned into energy on the moon along with solar there and laser beamed to Earth. There are many cleaner and cheaper solutions.

Eugene Mallove would be so happy!!!!!

""Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe. . .it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheelwork of nature." - Nikola Tesla

Imagine a world with abundant, compact, inexpensive, clean energy. Global warming has been reversed. The air is clean. Power and gas stations have been put to other uses, and the unsightly grid system has been dismantled and recycled. An unusual type of energy makes all this possible. It does not come from the sun, wind, rain or tides, nor is it a fossil or nuclear fuel taken from the ground or chemically synthesized. In some cases the source appears to be everywhere in space-time, invisible and infinite. In others, nuclear transmutations seem to be miraculously taking place at room temperature accompanying the release of energy.

Incredible as this scenario appears, we shall see in this article that laboratories around the world are repeatedly tapping into this abundant energy. Some leading theoretical physicists are beginning to understand why and how this is possible. Several companies are in the beginning stages of bringing workable devices to market that clearly produce more energy than what is needed to run them (so-called overunity devices)..

Research Breakthroughs and Commercial Developments According to knowledgeable observers, we should focus our attention on six new technologies:

(1) plasma-type devices;
(2) solid-state electromagnetic devices;
(3) ) hydrogen gas cells;
(4) super motors based on super magnets;
(5) cold fusion or "new hydrogen energy" (the Japanese name for cold fusion);
(6) hydrosonic or cavitation devices."

 

[mike]

Lovelock has said more or less the same thing (though his views have been revised in terms of timeline lately)

On the day we meet, the Daily Mail has launched a campaign to rid Britain of plastic shopping bags. The initiative sits comfortably within the current canon of eco ideas, next to ethical consumption, carbon offsetting, recycling and so on - all of which are premised on the calculation that individual lifestyle adjustments can still save the planet. This is, Lovelock says, a deluded fantasy. Most of the things we have been told to do might make us feel better, but they won't make any difference. Global warming has passed the tipping point, and catastrophe is unstoppable.
"It's just too late for it," he says. "Perhaps if we'd gone along routes like that in 1967, it might have helped. But we don't have time. All these standard green things, like sustainable development, I think these are just words that mean nothing. I get an awful lot of people coming to me saying you can't say that, because it gives us nothing to do. I say on the contrary, it gives us an immense amount to do. Just not the kinds of things you want to do."
He dismisses eco ideas briskly, one by one. "Carbon offsetting? I wouldn't dream of it. It's just a joke. To pay money to plant trees, to think you're offsetting the carbon? You're probably making matters worse. You're far better off giving to the charity Cool Earth, which gives the money to the native peoples to not take down their forests."
Do he and his wife try to limit the number of flights they take? "No we don't. Because we can't." And recycling, he adds, is "almost certainly a waste of time and energy", while having a "green lifestyle" amounts to little more than "ostentatious grand gestures". He distrusts the notion of ethical consumption. "Because always, in the end, it turns out to be a scam ... or if it wasn't one in the beginning, it becomes one."

James Lovelock: 'enjoy life while you can: in 20 years global warming will hit the fan' | Environment | The Guardian

Im reminded of one of the recent end of the world scenarios maybe y2k or some asteroid, where people were advocating maxing their credit cards on booze and stuff and going out with a party.

Once the idea that catastrophe is unavaoidable then people become fatalistic, imo thats going to be the final nail in the coffin for us

 

[Tyger]

But he's wrong, Mike. Recall 'Lord Jim' by Joseph Conrad? How many real life examples do we have of the captain and crew abandoning ship, making a decision with the information at hand, only to discover the ship never went down?

He is a dooms-sayer. It's a big mistake. He sounds depressed. It might be his norm, I don't know. A new world is coming and it is coming through little decisions made every day by all of us - particularly to vote! We will get through this but not with his attitude.

As Oliver Cromwell most famously said: "By the Bowels of Christ, I beseech you - be-think you, that you may be wrong!"

 

[Tyger]

I'm reminded of one of the recent end of the world scenarios maybe y2k or some asteroid, where people were advocating maxing their credit cards on booze and stuff and going out with a party.

Y2K didn't happen because leading up to it, a massive amount of work was put in to correct the blip. Talk about a money-pit! Y2K didn't happen - not because it was a hoax - but because it was averted by actions taken (and coordinated) around the world.

 

[mike]

Im not so sure he is wrong, overshoot day keeps creeping back
Populations continue to grow
Many of those populations are developing thus consuming more resources per capita
The forests are still shrinking
The fish stocks still declining
The acidification of oceans is rising
Species loss due to habitat loss is at an unprecidented level, Scientists estimate we’re now losing species at 1,000 to 10,000 times the background rate
They estimate as much as 50 percent of species will be lost by mid century, the primary driver habitat loss


Year - Overshoot Date
1987 - December 19
1990 - December 7
1995 - November 21
2000 - November 1
2005 - October 20
2007 - October 26
2008 - September 23
2009 - September 25
2010 - August 21
2011 - September 27
2012 - August 22
2013 - August 20
2014 - August 19

And sure to quote the day the earth stood still "At the precipice we change", unless of course youve already fallen over

Im sorry to say i think we have

 

[Tyger]

Im not so sure he is wrong, overshoot day keeps creeping back
Populations continue to grow
Many of those populations are developing thus consuming more resources per capita
The forests are still shrinking
The fish stocks still declining
The acidification of oceans is rising
Species loss due to habitat loss is at an unprecidented level, Scientists estimate we’re now losing species at 1,000 to 10,000 times the background rate
They estimate as much as 50 percent of species will be lost by mid century, the primary driver habitat loss.

And sure to quote "the day the earth stood still" : "At the precipice we change", unless of course you've already fallen over.

I'm sorry to say I think we have.

I like the quote, and your commentary.

Acidification of the oceans is huge. It's the food chain. Huge consequences. It's all huge, of course.

You're right, Mike.

William F. Buckley was of the view that ideological debates were really cultural debates - and in many respects, that is what I have experienced with the Climate Change 'debate', except that in the Climate Change conversation what we are really dealing with is a purposely skewed conversation for economic reasons. That it demarks along cultural-divide lines is complicated.

I hope to see this film this summer - you can see the film's trailer in the link -
LINK: Best of Enemies (Official Movie Site) - Starring William F. Buckley Jr. and Gore Vidal - In Theatres July 31st

TEXT: "This documentary, directed by Robert Gordon and Morgan Neville, details the historic 1968 televised debates between staunch conservative William F Buckley Jr. and the liberal writer, Gore Vidal. Firmly planted in their respective ideologies, the men often fought bitterly in their attempts to discredit each other, nearly coming to blows on more than one occasion. The film delves into their personal histories, mining for clues as to how the contrary political leanings of these two brilliant but complicated men evolved."​

Finally found the trailer on YouTube -
Best Of Enemies - Official Trailer

TEXT: "Published on Jun 9, 2015: 2 Men. 10 Debates. Television would never be the same. Watch the trailer for Best of Enemies featuring the explosive debates between liberal Gore Vidal and conservative William F. Buckley Jr. Available in theatres July 10th from Magnolia Pictures."​

FaceBook LINK: Best of Enemies | Facebook

LINK: Vidal vs. Buckley Paved the Way for the 2016 Debates - The Daily Beast
Vidal vs. Buckley Paved the Way for the 2016 Debates: In the 1960s, Gore Vidal and William F. Buckley were having the same political arguments we’re having today—and had a lot more fun making them.

TEXT: "In Hillary Clinton’s first economic policy speech this past week in New York, she tracked the income gap between the super-rich and middle class back 15 years. It’s been going on way longer than that. [It goes back even further than Buckley and Vidal - it's been simmering since FDR and the New Deal, and if we were honest, the seeds to all this is buried back in Feudalism.]

"I recently saw a preview of a fascinating documentary, Best of Enemies, about the 1968 political debates between the two original ideologues of our polarized cultural wars. William F. Buckley, a staunch Catholic, was then the leading light of the conservative movement. Gore Vidal, a cousin of Jackie Kennedy, was a brilliant novelist, playwright, and a scathing left-wing satirist. Way back then, Vidal raised the issue of “income disparity.” He pointed to a statistic that was shocking fifty years ago. “Five percent of Americans own twenty percent of the nation’s wealth.”

"Those were the good old days."
​

They didn't know how good they had it!

 

[Tyger]

What to make of this? Probably nothing but one can understand the concern over 'coincidences'. I doubt this has any veracity because I am inclined - by temperament - not to see complexity where it is not clearly proven, and in this case the partner in one of the deaths is very clear regarding the death being an unfortunate accident.

Three scientists investigating melting Arctic ice may have been assassinated, professor claims: Cambridge Professor Peter Wadhams suspects the deaths of the three scientists were more than just an ‘extraordinary’ coincidence July 25, 2015
LINK: Three scientists investigating melting Arctic ice may have been assassinated, professor claims - Telegraph

 

[Tyger]

Outstanding analysis of the divisive nature of Climate Change in the US - or as Naomi Klein states - in any countries that have very polarized political debates - where there is a Culture War taking place (which is the case in the US for sure).

The first few minutes (just even 3 minutes) of this interview is chockfull of insights. Well worth a listen imo.

A lot of analysis has gone on regarding beliefs (pro and con) on Climate Change. It is noted that there has been a change. There was a time when you could not determine whether someone was a Republican or a Democrat based solely on their views around Climate Change. Climate Change was not a polarizing issue. That has changed. Democrats overwhelmingly believe in Climate Change (that has not changed), but Republicans (as a group) do not - or more correctly stated, they now do admit Climate Change, but insist it is not anthropogenic (caused by human actions). Beliefs are now split along partisan lines - and what this means is that it has nothing to do with the science.

Climate Change is now seen as an identity issue by those on the Right. People are now defining themselves as part of who they are (like around abortion issues, etc) around Climate Change views. It's not about the science because when one delves into the objections, people say that they believe it's a socialist plot to re-distribute wealth. There is a belief that it's a 'communist plot'.

Why is Climate Change seen as such a threat? Naomi Klein thinks it's not an unreasonable fear. She thinks it is unreasonable to think that scientists are making up the science and its'a hoax. But Climate Change really is a profound threat to a great deal of what Republican ideologues believe in. If you really wrestle with the implications of the science, and what real climate action would mean, it's sobering and means signifiant change.

Just a few examples - it would mean up-ending the whole free-trade agenda (it would mean we have to localize our economies). Free Trade and Globalization have been signature policies of the Right - so that would have to be reversed. We would have to deal with inequality, we would have to re-distribute wealth because this is what created the crisis to begin with, created by the North and the effects are being felt in the South [she is talking globally - hemispherically]. Any serious climate action means regulating corporations and means intervening in economies (dealing with what is called 'The Commons"). It also means that the United Nations does need to have more power/strength to deal with the global situation [note how this is in keeping with the fear-mongering about a New World Order]. The list goes on - so the way to deal with it is to deny the science.

[Understanding what the ramifications are of the science makes the politics all the more understandable. It also drives home the importance of the next presidential election in the United States.]

To accept Climate Change science one must accept that one's whole world view is going to fall apart - namely, that we have to have massive investments in infrastructure, that we have to reverse free trade deals, that we have to have huge transfers of wealth from the North to the South [which we do in the US btw - ironically, the wealth of the whole (tax dollars) gets funneled to the South by way of federal programs, while the red-state South votes congressmen and governors into office who want to cut those same programs and the taxes that support them. It's an irony that is tragic.]

But even the Green Groups have a kind of denial around the politics, failing to face the realities of what real change will mean when confronting the economic issues that (anthropogenic) climate change indicates.

This interview is from 2011 (in relation to her first book on Climate Change - she has a second book coming out now and a documentary coming out this fall). Though 4 years old what Naomi Klein is saying remains timely.

Naomi Klein on The Shock Doctrine: "My Fear is Climate Change is the Biggest Crisis of All. 1 of 2

 

[Tyger]

Interesting interview for a variety of reasons, but what popped out at me was Klein mentioning that for the first time the Catholic Church (via the Pope's writings) is talking about 'Mother Earth - Sister Earth'. Some interesting insights.

Naomi Klein on Visiting the Vatican & the Radical Economic Message Behind Papal Climate Encyclical

TEXT: "Published on Aug 4, 2015: Following the publication of Pope Francis’ encyclical on climate change, a major conference on climate change was held at the Vatican. Speakers included our guest, Naomi Klein, author of "This Changes Everything: Capitalism vs. the Climate.” We speak to Klein about her trip to the Vatican and the importance of the pope’s message – not only on climate change, but the global economy."

 

[Tyger]

This book summarizes the situation: "Climate Change is the atmospheric legacy of a class war."

This Changes Everything: Capitalism vs. The Climate Paperback – August 4, 2015
by Naomi Klein (Author)

TEXT: "The most important book yet from the author of the international bestseller The Shock Doctrine, a brilliant explanation of why the climate crisis challenges us to abandon the core “free market” ideology of our time, restructure the global economy, and remake our political systems.

"In short, either we embrace radical change ourselves or radical changes will be visited upon our physical world. The status quo is no longer an option.

"In This Changes Everything Naomi Klein argues that climate change isn’t just another issue to be neatly filed between taxes and health care. It’s an alarm that calls us to fix an economic system that is already failing us in many ways. Klein meticulously builds the case for how massively reducing our greenhouse emissions is our best chance to simultaneously reduce gaping inequalities, re-imagine our broken democracies, and rebuild our gutted local economies. She exposes the ideological desperation of the climate-change deniers, the messianic delusions of the would-be geoengineers, and the tragic defeatism of too many mainstream green initiatives. And she demonstrates precisely why the market has not—and cannot—fix the climate crisis but will instead make things worse, with ever more extreme and ecologically damaging extraction methods, accompanied by rampant disaster capitalism.

"Klein argues that the changes to our relationship with nature and one another that are required to respond to the climate crisis humanely should not be viewed as grim penance, but rather as a kind of gift—a catalyst to transform broken economic and cultural priorities and to heal long-festering historical wounds. And she documents the inspiring movements that have already begun this process: communities that are not just refusing to be sites of further fossil fuel extraction but are building the next, regeneration-based economies right now.

"Can we pull off these changes in time? Nothing is certain. Nothing except that climate change changes everything. And for a very brief time, the nature of that change is still up to us."​

A very good interview below covering a wide-ranging arc -

Naomi Klein with Katharine Viner, Conversation, 29 April 2015

TEXT: "Published on May 4, 2015: Naomi Klein is an award-winning journalist, syndicated columnist, fellow at The Nation Institute, and author of several international bestsellers. Her new book, This Changes Everything: Capitalism vs. the Climate, to be published in September, examines why the climate crisis challenges us to abandon the core ?free market? ideology of our time, restructure the global economy, and remake our political systems. This event was part of the In Pursuit of Cultural Freedom lecture series."

 

[Tyger]

If you have the time, this is close to 2 hours and is (imo) an intelligent summation of the situation.

Naomi Klein - This Changes Everything: Capitalism vs. the Climate

TEXT: "Published on Oct 29, 2014: Irving K. Barber Learning Centre Lecture presented by the Vancouver Institute. Webcast sponsored by the Irving K. Barber Learning Centre. Naomi Klein is the author of the critically acclaimed #1 international bestsellers, The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism and No Logo: Taking Aim at the Brand Bullies which have each been translated into more than 30 languages. She is a contributing editor for Harper's Magazine, a reporter for Rolling Stone, and a syndicated columnist for The Nation and The Guardian.

"Naomi is a member of the board of directors for 350.org, a global grassroots movement to solve the climate crisis. Her new book is This Changes Everything: Capitalism vs. The Climate (September, 2014). This lecture is co-sponsored by the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives, 350.org and Green College."​