Philosophy, Science, & The Unexplained - Main Thread

[Richard Hawkins]

That might very well be the case. We touched on that a few times in the consciousness thread. I was once of the opinion that there seemed to be no reason that a brain made of synthetic neurons wouldn't elicit the same emergence of consciousness as one made of biological components — until I realized the flaw in that logic.

Simply put — One thing looking similar to another while performing similar functions doesn't necessarily mean both things can do all the same things — particularly if they're made of different materials with different properties. Silicon microchips might not be made of the right materials and/or have the right configuration of materials to facilitate the emergence of consciousness — even if they can do all the rest.

You may well be correct Randall.

 

[Richard Hawkins]

You may well be correct Randall.

I think we should do a podcast. Called beyond the Paracast. Once a week because sometimes we have different views but also it would get the Paracast out there.

 

[Randall]

I think we should do a podcast. Called beyond the Paracast. Once a week because sometimes we have different views but also it would get the Paracast out there.

I appreciate the sentiment, and it's fun to think about. If only things were still like the good ole days. Now I can't un-see what I saw and un-know what I know — and I can't say much more than that without going where no conversation is allowed to go ( at least here ).

 

[Richard Hawkins]

I appreciate the sentiment, and it's fun to think about. If only things were still like the good ole days. Now I can't un-see what I saw and un-know what I know — and I can't say much more than that without going where no conversation is allowed to go ( at least here ).

I fully understand

 

[Randall]

I fully understand

Well — even I don't fully understand it, but at least you're more open to discussing it than others. If you want to explore that further in some sort of organized way — including a companion podcast, by all means, PM me.

 

[Richard Hawkins]

Well — even I don't fully understand it, but at least you're more open to discussing it than others. If you want to explore that further in some sort of organized way — including a companion podcast, by all means, PM me.

Ok best if I send you an email. Different views different opinions which can all be debated in a different and civilised way as it used to be

 

[SRL+]

That might very well be the case. We touched on that a few times in the consciousness thread. I was once of the opinion that there seemed to be no reason that a brain made of synthetic neurons wouldn't elicit the same emergence of consciousness as one made of biological components — until I realized the flaw in that logic.

Simply put — One thing looking similar to another while performing similar functions doesn't necessarily mean both things can do all the same things — particularly if they're made of different materials with different properties. Silicon microchips might not be made of the right materials and/or have the right configuration of materials to facilitate the emergence of consciousness — even if they can do all the rest.

Check this out. In the future will these lab grown AI interfacing brains have a form of consciousness, and how might they communicate with alien life forms? Will they decide to leave humans out of the loop?

"Researchers are developing lab-grown human brain organoids that can replicate basic cognitive functions, which may eventually interface with AI systems. This technology aims to enhance our understanding of the brain and improve interactions between biological and artificial intelligence."

https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2025/johns-hopkins-team-finds-lab-grown-brain-organoids-show-building-blocks-for-learning-and-memory

 

[Richard Hawkins]

Check this out. In the future will these lab grown AI interfacing brains have a form of consciousness, and how might they communicate with alien life forms? Will they decide to leave humans out of the loop?

"Researchers are developing lab-grown human brain organoids that can replicate basic cognitive functions, which may eventually interface with AI systems. This technology aims to enhance our understanding of the brain and improve interactions between biological and artificial intelligence."

https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2025/johns-hopkins-team-finds-lab-grown-brain-organoids-show-building-blocks-for-learning-and-memory

If they replace my brain I hope i get a sensible one this time.

 

[Randall]

Check this out. In the future will these lab grown AI interfacing brains have a form of consciousness, and how might they communicate with alien life forms? Will they decide to leave humans out of the loop?

"Researchers are developing lab-grown human brain organoids that can replicate basic cognitive functions, which may eventually interface with AI systems. This technology aims to enhance our understanding of the brain and improve interactions between biological and artificial intelligence."

https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2025/johns-hopkins-team-finds-lab-grown-brain-organoids-show-building-blocks-for-learning-and-memory

Very interesting. Thanks ! I've read about the ones they've grown with silver — but these stem cell versions remove the concern over the difference in materials. Still — when it comes to consciousness, there's the issue of form ( as in form and function ). In human brains, the thalamocortical loop is a network of neurons organized in a particular way that when active results in consciousness, and when disrupted results in loss of consciousness. So they'll have to take that into account.

Of course — this also raises some very serious ethical questions about the development of such technology. If we think of consciousness as the defining variable of what makes us special as living beings — then experimenting with such systems would be very much like playing God on a level never before achieved. Imagine the types of testing that would require the repeated premeditated creation and killing of such systems in order to determine their operating specifications.

 

[Randall]

If they replace my brain I hope i get a sensible one this time.

You and me both

 

[Randall]

Ok best if I send you an email. Different views different opinions which can all be debated in a different and civilised way as it used to be

Or at least how it was supposed to be — until the censorship began.

 

[SRL+]

NY Times, The Interview

Michael Pollan Says Humanity Is About to Undergo a Revolutionary Change

 

[Randall]

NY Times, The Interview

Michael Pollan Says Humanity Is About to Undergo a Revolutionary Change

Interesting discussion. I posed an idea to Chalmers in an email, that based on an experiments where simply thinking about the results changed the outcome, that if true, then it seems that the setup might qualify as a consciousness detector. I haven't heard back. I have no idea whether or not he even got the email. It's not like we actually know each other.

I sent a similar email to physicist Lisa Randall proposing that maybe the assumption that the laws of physics are the same everywhere is false, and that dark matter and energy are regions of space where physics behaves differently, and that's why nobody has actually detected any actual "dark matter" or "dark energy". Interestingly, I ran across an article somewhere not long ago where that was a serious consideration. I dunno where that article is. I should make more of an effort to bookmark that stuff.

 

[Burnt State]

I'm halfway through the transcription of this interview and I'm leaning towards a moment in time where our Buddhist research and training will bring us to the mirror of consciousness to discover that we've been in a self generating RPG, and at the end we are going to have that Blade Runner epiphany that we are simply a replicant that didn't know it all along.

 

[Richard Hawkins]

I'm halfway through the transcription of this interview and I'm leaning towards a moment in time where our Buddhist research and training will bring us to the mirror of consciousness to discover that we've been in a self generating RPG, and at the end we are going to have that Blade Runner epiphany that we are simply a replicant that didn't know it all along.

Well if that's the case I would like a better replica than me.