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November 15, 2015 — Mark Rodeghier and Leslie Kean


Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
It's high time that UFO researchers find ways to attempt to catch the saucer in the act and take photos and various scientific measurements. If UFOs are physical objects, this may be take us closer to a solution.

So on this episode, we cover the forthcoming UFODATA project that is designed to create a worldwide network of surveillance stations that would be designed to detect possible UFO activity. Our guests include Mark Rodeghier, Ph.D., the scientific director and president of the J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO Studies and Leslie Kean, an investigative journalist and author of UFOs: Generals, Pilots and Government Officials Go On the Record.

We also focus on the implications of projects of this sort in this week's episode of After The Paracast, an exclusive feature of The Paracast+. For more information about our premium subscription offering, please check:

Introducing The Paracast+ | The Paracast — The Gold Standard of Paranormal Radio
 
I've listened to the show (highly enjoyable) and it ticked a lot of boxes for me. However, like Chris, I have some concerns and there may be some contradictions with what has been said by the guests and what is said on the ufodata.net site.

Specifically, it is concerning the data, and release thereof. Leslie and Mark both stated that the data would be released for public consumption. To be fair, Mark did mention that peer-reviewed data would be pre-processed, but on the following page (UFODATA Project - Frequently Asked Questions) it appears that they'll be looking to monetise the data:

What will you do if the system detects UAP, and how will the data be shared?
The first step will be to thoroughly analyze the data ourselves in an effort to rule out conventional explanations. If we think that we can rule out such explanations then the data will be submitted for publication in a peer-reviewed scientific journal. In addition, the data will be made available to public scrutiny more generally. Having said that, we reserve the right to place reasonable restrictions on dissemination and sharing of data pending appropriate cost sharing agreements, as we do not have funding or staffing available to compile and distribute data to other agencies at our own cost. Any such arrangements will accord with standard protocols used by non-profit scientific or governmental agencies. Policies on data management and distribution, such as that used the European Space Agency, or GEIPAN in France, will serve as a guide.

A few observations here:
1. By filtering the raw data, there is a danger that other patterns may be missed that could be of use to other researchers;
2. By submitting to peer-reviewed journals, they should really supply the raw data and then detail the methodologies and algorithms applied to the data, such that other independent researchers can apply the same and hopefully get the same results, or be able to identify any divergences in their own result-sets and report back;
3. By placing a cost to access the data, they are excluding the very people and volunteers that could assist in finding patterns at the bottom level. There is an opportunity to take advantage of citizen science _as_well_as citizen funding which they are seeking.

There was also talk of varying types of stations - currently they are working on deploying a high end observation one. Well, there's an opportunity to again go for breadth, rather than depth, by creating a cheap cut down version i.e. no high-end camera and such using something like a RaspberryPi, an Arduino or Particle for less than $100 that can monitor things such as weather, magnetism and so on. The software is free to use and develop and anyone could download and flash onto their kit, connect to the Internet and then be part of the network - anywhere in the world.

Loved the idea of a data conference centred on UAP - hopefully it would be streamed for those of us not in the US? Or even have a live webinar so questions can be asked and theories tested?

I've long wished that entities like MUFON and NUFORC would release the data in a standard format so that people can mine the data for value. NUFORC has hardly anyone to do this, MUFON don't have the people with the knowledge at the moment. The time is ripe to start extracting patterns and indicators from these datasets, but the politics always seem to get in the way. The 'value' in these datasets are not going to be monetary - certainly not an amount that would be significant to the holders - instead, its in the dissemination and combining it with other datasets and insight.

Bb
 
Enjoyed the show. I've never had a UAP experience but I'm an open minded skeptic who is intrigued by the paranormal. It's a great project in the climate of contact high in the desert stuff.
As a skeptic it is annoying to be conflated with debunkers. It's like when people lump agnosticism with atheism.:p
 
Mark seems like a very level headed, logic, straight forward guy when it comes to UFO's. I think I might have even suggested him as a guest a while back.

I know Chris O. has been busy as hell, but I haven't heard anything of his SLV camera/recording project as of late. Unless maybe I've missed something?
 
This project needs to be encouraged and I'm confident the people behind it, together with all of those volunteering to help, will be able to work out the kinks.

A couple of things worried me, however, and I believe they need to either be better explained to reevaluated. First, I'm of the opinion that the peer-reviewed work that comes from this project needs to fully detail and explain the process of choosing which data is analyzed and how. If there's a vetting process, it needs to be explained. Otherwise, scientists being scientists, holes will be punched. And if those holes are punched, the credibility of the research and the effort that went into it will go up in smoke. It's too important of a project to allow that to happen.

My second concern is the appearance that volunteers and those who are managing the equipment on behalf of the project may (over time) be required to pay something in order to do so. The thought of a three-tiered system where money is paid for certain levels of equipment is off-putting, although I recognize it may be necessary to keep the project funded. My hope is that the organizers manage to grab one of those billionaires and that the concerns over funding are limited. For now, people should simply support the project in whatever way they feel appropriate and, hopefully, funding is not an issue.

One thought I had while listening to the show was the possibility of making the actual UFODATA network available to the public online in the form of a videology feed. For example, people could be permitted to go online and tap into a video feed of their favorite UFODATA hotspot. Not sure exactly how it would work, but it's a thought.

Overall, great show. It's nice to feel optomistic about the field and I look forward to seeing what the UFODATA project comes up with.
 
Good show, promising project, needs to happen. Co-operation has to be a good thing. Gene's comment at the end of ATP was interesting in terms of what success rate we might expect from this: what if the whole intent of UFOs is to be elusive? (c.f. Comments earlier in the episode and in the past about how we have lots of smartphones, video cameras and CCTV coverage but precious few decent photos/pieces of footage.) We have to try, of course.

A few other points:

1. The San Luis Valley project has got momentum but after that, Hessdalen would be the following prime site to apply this technology, for me. There are already TV cameras and monitoring stations in place there, so that's something to build on plus an existing project to work with.

2. This is new civilian technology but the same thing has been available to the military for far longer, we can safely assume. What have the military already discovered about the UFO phenomenon using stuff like this, I wonder? I'm not suggesting there's a parallel military project already doing this (although there may be), but if the same technology is used for other things, surely there would be inadvertent data collected just like air traffic controllers sometimes get unexplained radar traces. Also, would the military have issues with civilians using this tech?; not because of UFOs per se, but because the data it would record on any military activities may be useful to unfriendly powers, and presumably relatively easy to hack? Note Chris and Mark's comments at the end of the main show that a lot of UAP stuff takes place with some military involvement and/or close to military facilities.

3. What happens when the local kids/pranksters find out where the cameras are and start flying drones around?
 
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Regarding Mark Rodeghier, I have a hard time taking anyone seriously who claims to be a Ph.D. but either can't be bothered or can't figure out how to speak English properly. Phenomena is the plural of phenomenon--one phenomenon, two, three, four, etc. phenomena. Is that really so hard? Isn't that a word that scientists tend to use a lot? It is simply wrong to say "a phenomena" or "the phenomena is", yet Rodeghier made this mistake again and again and again. And yes, I am an English teacher. (And Chris doesn't know how to pronounce voluminous.)
 
Regarding Mark Rodeghier, I have a hard time taking anyone seriously who claims to be a Ph.D. but either can't be bothered or can't figure out how to speak English properly. Phenomena is the plural of phenomenon--one phenomenon, two, three, four, etc. phenomena. Is that really so hard? Isn't that a word that scientists tend to use a lot? It is simply wrong to say "a phenomena" or "the phenomena is", yet Rodeghier made this mistake again and again and again. And yes, I am an English teacher. (And Chris doesn't know how to pronounce voluminous.)
Holy macaroni guy, relax!
Not everyone uses perfect English, it doesn't mean thatwhat they say is somehow lesser. Does it?
I'm trying to think of a way to say 'I feel sorry for your students' without being a total jerk :p
Don't not love I cuz I no talk gud
 
Good show. I always enjoy hearing Mark Rodeghier. Really looking forward to the day these systems are all operational.

Marc D’Antonio was on the Martin Willis podcast last week discussing the UFOTOG system that he is developing with Douglas Trumbull. He also talked about almost dying during surgery last May.
176. Marc D’Antonio | Podcast UFO

For those in the Phoenix area, D’Antonio will be speaking at Phoenix MUFON in Tempe tomorrow (11/21).
http://www.phoenixmufon.com/
 
Regarding Mark Rodeghier, I have a hard time taking anyone seriously who claims to be a Ph.D. but either can't be bothered or can't figure out how to speak English properly. Phenomena is the plural of phenomenon--one phenomenon, two, three, four, etc. phenomena. Is that really so hard? Isn't that a word that scientists tend to use a lot? It is simply wrong to say "a phenomena" or "the phenomena is", yet Rodeghier made this mistake again and again and again. And yes, I am an English teacher. (And Chris doesn't know how to pronounce voluminous.)
Type O Negative. RIP Peter.
 
Good show. It's a compelling topic that will continue to develop.

I recently found this fellow's software on reddit. I sent the info to Chris via a message but never heard back.

For those that are interested, he's developed a free "UFO Detector" software. It's not exactly the most advanced software in the world, but I find it exciting for a few reasons. First, it's interesting that someone's actually developing software like this. Like Gene astutely said on the show, software is an evolving format and it has to start somewhere. As each new version comes out (hopefully) you get more features and better stability. I think we need to support people who come up with stuff like this.

Take a look.

Project CE | Connecting Evidence

UFO Detector - How it works
 
Finally tuned into this episode. Love the enthusiasm, and the After The Paracast comments by Gene and Chris were very apropos. Another reason for folks to sign-up for The Paracast Plus. Not to sound dismissive of the CUFOS project, but Chris sounds like he's already way out front with the SLV project, and I'd Iove nothing better than to see Chris get the goods first and make us proud :) !

Now all that being said, a couple of comments. At around 01:30:00 there seems to be an assumption that if the UFODATA project detects something odd that can be analyzed, that whatever it turns out to be, it will automatically be assumed to be the answer to the UFO mystery. That may not be how it was intended to come across, but it did come across very much that way, and such an assumption is entirely faulty. For example, if it turns out that some UAP are some kind of previously undocumented bird migration; that in no way disproves alien visitation, and if something alien is detected, no matter what remote sensing evidence this project is able to acquire, without verifiable material evidence to go along with it, the UFO deniers, debunkers, and most skeptics will remain unconvinced.

Nevertheless some good detection evidence would still be very exciting for us serious ufologists, so there's nothing to do but praise these types of projects. They truly represent a "genuine and constructive interest" in the UFO phenomenon. And to close, so what if some new natural phenomena are discovered along the way? That would be really cool too. We can document that and still keep on trying to catch an alien craft in our sensor net. We know they're out there. If we really didn't think so, we wouldn't be trying to get them on camera now would we ;) ?
 
Oh I almost forgot to mention: At one point Leslie posed the problem of why with all the cell phones out there, we're not getting better UFO photos. I hate to mention that somebody dropped the ball there and forgot to respond with the two key words for that situation : "Butt Selfies"
rolling-on-the-floor-laughing-smiley-face-rolling.gif
 
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