Nice alien fungus (for once...)

[maxszabo]

In marked contrast to the consistently-evil alien sporespawn of H. P. Lovecraft's 'Fungi from Yuggoth', I wish to refer David B. (and any other interested party) to episode #150 of the strange-but-interesting Psychedelic Salon podcast, wherein hedge-scientist Terence McKenna can be heard addressing a convocation of UFOlogical listeners on a variety of topics, including the possibility that evidence of alien visitation upon Earth is not only abundant, conspicuous, and - evidently - moral in the extreme, but is also intimately tied to his well-publicised notions of concrescent historical attractors, and hominoid evolution by way of entheogenic interactions.

From the landing page:

"This is not a drug. It’s something that’s disguising itself as a drug in order not to spread alarm. (...) I think that the alien will be so alien that your jaw will hang in the air. And expecting to meet an anthropoid-like alien with an interest in your reproductive machinery and gross industrial capacity is as culture-bound a concept as searching NGC-321 for a good Italian restaurant. It’s absurd on the face of it. (...) All of human history is the signifier of the presence of the alien. Human history is what happens to an advanced animal species when it is inner-penetrated on a scale of a million years by a mind in another dimension."

If so, his observations re the ironical underpinnings of the great parabolic dish at Arecibo become especially appropriate.

 

[mike]

anyone know what a hedge scientist is ?
botanical gardens perhaps?, is it like a tree surgeon ?

 

[maxszabo]

Thank you for the comment, Mike.

By that term I suggest that Mr McKenna was following a somewhat scientific approach to his enquiries, but without the benefit of institutional structures or edifices. On the contrary, he operated as a kind of shaman, on the fringes of society. By virtue of popular culture and comminications, however, he is enjoying a popularity beyond his own passing. The upcoming 2012 memegasm can also - to some degree - be attributed to his work, which - I believe - was mathematical in origin.

I also probably make subconscious reference to a term used by fantasy author Fritz Leiber; 'hedge wizard'. It represents an intuitive magician operating away from centres of learning within his 'swords and sorcery' universe, and connotes a certain degree of wholesome untidyness.

 

[mike]

thanks Max
you might pay urbandictionary a visit and define Memegasm for them.
i cant find that one either, though i perhaps perceive the gestalt

 

[maxszabo]

I'm sure you do.

What's more, I'd certainly be interested to know what you - a pale, vaguely familiar-seeming superorganism of grayish, spongy cells - thought of the audio file.

And if anyone else has some time to review it, I'd be equally fascinated.

BTW, I should note that I'm not affiliated with the podcast mentioned, in case anyone was wondering. This is a genuine 'thought you might be interested' thread, without any clinching questions; more a gentle nudge in a particular direction, just to see...

 

[mike]

Very interesting stuff and while i enjoyed the exploration of some of his ideas, i couldnt subscribe to all of his conclusions.
its true that the human bio system can be affected by various compounds, but i think that needs to be explored by medicine and science.
ive seen ppl take magic mushrooms, though i never had the urge to drink the mucky black brew, and not one of them ever mentioned elves or UFO's.
id be more interested in the results of a study on volunteers includng a control group than i would taking this compound myself and proving his point that there are always elves and or a voice.

i could make a conclusion that the mushroom has been sent to befuddle us and keep us isolated, rather than enlighten us. ppl who are tripping/off their dial need supervision around cars trains etc. i just dont see this as a viable tool for humanity to embrace in solving the UFO problem.

for me the problem with hallucinations is how do you sort out the "real" cosmic experience he describes from the good old fasioned couple of slices short of a full loaf crazyness ?

i dont think you can, so i dont think its helpful

 

[maxszabo]

Interesting response, Mike.

I think the issue, if I understand correctly, is dosage and delivery, and the plant seems to matter. (I think he refers to several derivates from different plants.) McK talks about inhaling something, rather than eating/drinking. He seems to criticize the color-variation level of drugging, as I recall. Perhaps he is talking about unusual approaches here?

Also, the baseline scientific research you suggest has already been carried out, if the creepy declassified reports/films are correct: wasn't the biggest purchase order of Swiss braincandy in history from a certain organisation in Langley, Virginia?

On to the point of normative perceptions: this is the key, I think. If our ideas about the normative have been shaped, then it would be possible to pull off all manner of slight-of-hand, given that the Universe only bothers to get up in the morning and dress itself in solid-seeming subatomic particles if we conscious subjects decide to open our eyes and pay attention.

 

[mike]

yes he did mention dose and specific molecule, and i would be interested in the results of studys done in the proper fashion.
im not saying hes wrong, perhaps this molecule does enable our brains to comunicate at some quantum level with beings ET or Outtime.

but his comments on the adamski "hallucination/manifestation" tend to leave me in the "your just tripping man" camp.

such a manifestation as described suggested to me more an internally generated experience than an external ie contact one.

but lets say hes found the key, and studies prove it and 50 years from now all the old religeons are gone and we have contact via this chemical "upgrade". then one day a real mother ship appears and everyone rushes off and doses themselfs with the alien contact molecule....

as i said he may have something with his theory but some of conclusions i could differ with.

this might be an alien molecule sent on purpose, but it wouldnt be the first time the missionarys have used drugs on the natives, and to the natives detriment.

heres a scenario i like, the unremarkable little star with its 3rd planet teeming with life one day spawns a species called the "scourge" and by the time the neighbours find out the feral smartypants are cruising the space lanes its too late. they cant be stopped at that time......

so time travel was employed to try and nip the problem in the bud so to speak, but with the tremendous energies involved in a down time shunt and the temporal risks, a small spore was decided on as the payload, the spore of his alien fungus... its sole job to stunt and befuddle man and his senses and hopefully stop him developing to the point where he is encountered as a cat out of the bag uptime...

thanks for pointing me at this one , its given me much food for thought

 

[maxszabo]

Well, Mike, you've pinpointed the problem of scenario-building in the absence of the complete facts. Depending upon one's suppositions about the sophistication (and/or bloody-mindedness) of the various potential players, one can produce recursive loops which - more often than not - seem to suggest a path of 'no action' and a subsequent fearful apathy.

There was an interesting discussion on the Black Vault Radio podcast recently, involving a Guy Malone, which dealt with the theory that the 'mainline' visitor-abduction narrative is an updated, very traditional, spiritual warfare scenario, and easily read by the evangelical Christian subculture as such. Worth reviewing, also.

Of course, the issue remains: what to do? One is invited, it seems, to simultaneously keep sometimes mutually-exclusive theories at once, like a plate-spinning juggler, and wait for a new speck of information which might suggest jettisoning a certain proportion of theory, and the acquisition of another.

And, if I'm not mistaken, isn't that impossible situation the exact one sought in the field of psychological warfare, at least as far as 'the enemy' is concerned?

BTW, I like the idea of a tiny, replicating, electron-dense mushroom spore being sent back in time to derail (or railroad) humankind. Of course, if McK is right, then we'd all be scratching lice out of each other's fur in the savannahs if 'they' (whoever 'they' are) didn't decide to allow our forebears to selectively infect themselves with increased colour perception, boosted libido, expanded three-dimensional awareness, deeper subjectivity, language development, etc.

Motivation in the 'other' is crucial, here. Are 'they' just lonely, and hoping to elicit some conversational neighbours from the surrounding bioscatter? Or are darker motives at work?

Or, as I noted before, is the presence of conscious awareness so significant (and universe-modifying) that we 'are here' to complete a pattern, balance an equation, or elicit a certain response from a habitual, malleable universe which is based on Rupert Sheldrake's morphic resonance? Is our normative perceptial basis a managed sham?

This last point is the one which, I'd suggest, may provide the much-needed meta-layer which allows for a perspective on suggestive, patterned, infuriatingly-non-replicable anomalies which are - let's be frank - the usual frontier of new understanding.

 

[maxszabo]

Thing is, if you were in the future and were to send back carefully-designed fungal spores via some hideously-expensive and limited time-travelling technology, designed to befuddle and side-track investigative research via psychedelic distractions, would you incorporate easily-distinguishable phosphate molecules which (apparently: I'm no biologist...) appear in no other living organism?

Hm.

If we were to review Kubrick's '2001' and replace the black monolith with a single, traversable-wormhole-delivered fungal spore...

 

[mike]

again not saying the ideas are without merit, but and heres the rub

he suggests that all UFO encounters are altered states of reality, that you cant see one unless you are in an altered state........

the facts are not everyone who takes these substances sees UFOs or entitys, and the airliner pilots and others including ppl here whove seen UFO's were not taking hallucinogens at the time.

i cant reconcile his theory against that reality.

if ppl see ufos without taking drugs, and if ppl taking drugs dont always see ufos..... then to my mind that theory goes up in smoke, pardon the pun

 

[maxszabo]

A reasonable person would not be able to agree with your representation of his words: best for others to review the content for themselves.

The idea that "all" encounters "are" this or that is plainly not what's being suggested.

Rather, he suggests that the interested call his bluff by spending the five minutes doing whichever hit he's talking about.

Encountered-entities-not-including-oneself are, I understand, widely reported in psychedelic accounts.

Ipso facto.

What's he discussing is not a theory to account for UFOs; rather, he's problematizing the very idea of theories accounting for UFOs, and suggests an alternative perspective.

 

[mike]

again i enjoyed the data, as food for thought i found some of the flavours pleasing to the palate.
and as i said before the best way to take his dare ,to me is for a medical team to do a real study.
ive seen ppl on lsd and magic mushrooms (Psilocybin.) , and they havent seen entities or UFO's

it could be the power of suggestion ie if he says take this dose and you will see entitys.......
thats why id rather see a university do a propper study with volunteers who are not told what to expect tested alongside those told to expect entitys.

those results are going to tell me much more, than taking a dose myself and waiting for the promised elves to appear.

im very much a nuts and bolts type, but i found the episode interesting, from a nuts and bolts perspective

 

[maxszabo]

Not sure the likelyhood of 'shroomstudies in the near-future out of any major U.S. institution (though I can imagine many volunteers), but nice to see the scientific method being proferred.

Regarding nuts-and-bolts, I wonder if the problems is a nuts-and-bolts problem in the first place.

That's not including the possibility that someone/thing uses soundly-debunked Adamski-UFO designs as camouflage.

What a superb disguise...

 

[maxszabo]

Relevant uotations from the McKenna 'cast, listed at the start of this thread, intended 'for consideration by the UFO community.'

"If you're in this game for fun, there's lots of fun to be had. If you're in this game for final answers, I'd suggest you take up geometry: it will be much more satisfying. There isn't going to be closure: I mean, because, after all, don't lose sight of the fact that we're advanced monkeys of some sort. The idea that advanced monkeys could in-fact unearth and then cognize the secret of the universe is like expecting the same thing from termites or mussels. It's absurd; it's ridiculous. We are embedded in mystery; our brains were evolved to keep us from being eaten by nearby, hungry competitors. It is not a tool for philosophy. Philosophy comes later. I think that what the UFO community and the psychedelic community share is a tremendous impatience with scientism and the fascism of scientism, and the way to overcome these things is to simply opt out of the historical game and avail yourselves of the shamanic tools which have always been there. The whisperings from the other dimension are probably a thousand millenia old; that's a million years. That's the time we've been sitting around campfires, spinning yarns for each other, and looking up at the night sky. We are not alone on this planet, but it may be that we are the late-evolving intelligence. [...]

"Not everybody fell into physics-worship and materialism: the rainforest cultures, the aboriginal cultures have kept the channel open while we dithered and mucked about in the historical process: materialism, scientism, positivism, you-name-it. But the doorway lies open. The problem is it requires an act of courage: real courage. Because it's real. It's absolutely real. But the <i>sine qua non</i> is the psychedelic molecule: it was designed this way. It isn't that it's impossible to encounter these things in any other fashion, but it's impossible to coherently encounter them in any other fashion because that's the part that is obtruding into the social sphere, and that's the area where contention, control, informational viruses, disinformation, false testimony, [and] hidden agendas are totally corrupting of the phenomenon. But you can get it down to you-and-it, if you will simply avail yourself of the psychedelic tools that nature created and that shamanism places at our disposal. That's where the frontier of this hyper-technical fantasy is headed: toward a revivification of knowledge systems that were ancient when the pyramids were not yet even a gleam-in-the-eye."
- Terence McKenna (date unknown)