New theory on 9/11 "Controlled Demolition"

[status4]

Just to confirm, is the story still that one of the 'hijackers' was identified after his passport was found on the ground in Manhattan?

Gareth, I have heard this story in several cases, including I believe the other plane that crashed in the field as well. I think one of the things they found was a passport for one of the culprits on that flight, the big thing is that they were all in perfect condition when found, prompting the conspiracy folks to conclude that they were planted.

However in the case of flight 11, it's fact that the hijackers were identified by the cabin crew of the flight itself. As flight 11 was being taken over and flown toward the towers, 2 of the cabin crew made recorded telephone calls to American airlines staff. They began making phone calls on the in flight phones when the takeover started, they became alerted when business class became filled with what they described as a substance like mace and they were having trouble breathing in the forward section. It was at that point that they also lost contact with the cockpit as nobody was answering the phone in there and they were locked out. One of the attendants was able to reach a ticket desk at the airport where she was based and was speaking to her co-workers, she gave them the seat numbers of the hijackers which they pulled up on the computers, they all registered using their real identities. They first name that came up when they checked the seat numbers was Atta, the alleged leader of the group.

 

[Anubis]

No worries, I kind of thought you might have misunderstood me. I quoted your post to start because I agree with you on the whole thermite thing, but yes the rest of the post was directed elsewhere, probably should have been 2 posts, but I figured the big space was enough. Thanks for the apology though, was wondering why I was getting it for being in agreement with you.

Thanks. While I may sometimes come across as a bit of a jerk in some of my responses during debates such as this one, I an quite willing to admit when I know I am wrong as well.

 

[pixelsmith]

anubis can you tell me how a 757 could enter the pentagon airspace? the most heavily protected building in the world was allegedly impacted by a slow moving 757 that managed to avoid fighter planes ten miles away as well as missile defense systems at the pentagon. there are 2 radar systems at the pentagon, civilian and military. if the transponder was turned off and it had no IFF system installed it would have been a prinary target.

 

[pixelsmith]

i suggest everyone watch this documentary. and no, Alex Jones is not in it.
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

False-Flag operations are covert operations conducted by governments, corporations, or other organizations, which are designed to appear as if they are being carried out by other entities. The name is derived from the military concept of flying false colours; that is, flying the flag of a country or organization other than one's own. Just because something is unpleasant to contemplate does not mean that it didn't happen. Do not be told what to think; just see for yourself and trust your own intelligence . . . The place to start is the first documentary posted in this playlist entitled "ZERO : An Investigation Into 9/11". One of the most important pieces of evidence in the whole picture is the supposed "collapse" of WTC Building-7. This subject is dealt with in detail in the video entitled "World Trade Center Building 7 - The Evidence". WTC 7 contained offices of the FBI, the Department of Defence, the United States Secret Service, the C.I.A., the Mayor's Office of Emergency Management (a command and control bunker), the IRS (which contained prodigious amounts of corporate tax fraud evidence, including Enron's), the Securities & Exchange Commission (with more stock fraud records), Citibank's Salomon Smith Barney and many other financial institutions. The SEC has not quantified the number of active cases in which substantial files were destroyed by the collapse of WTC-7. Reuter's news service and the Los Angeles Times published reports estimating them at 3,000 to 4,000. Inside WTC 7 was the US Secret Service's largest field office with more than 200 employees - "All the evidence that we stored at 7 World Trade, in all our cases, went down with the building," according to US Secret Service Special Agent David Curran. A regime capable of these operations should be removed from power and brought to justice as soon as possible. Even a basic knowledge of 20th Century History shows us that. You are not being asked to believe a word of what is written here - watch the films posted in this playlist and see for yourself. .

 

[Rocketsauce]

I just tried skimming through this thread after recently hearing Richard Dolan discuss his own belief that the whole things was an inside job. By the way, Dolan seems to have some pretty out there conspiracy beliefs.

Anywho, I'm not very well read on this at all, but I admit there are some really strange things about 911 and it wouldn't surprise me if one of the smaller bulidings was demolished for other reasons, but at this point I'm leaning towards what David said, that it's possible they let this shit happen rather than it was completely planned out. But I don't know, I'm willing to keep an open mind and consider alternative explanations.

On a side note, here's what I remember about that day. I got into work in DC and my co-worker says a plane hit one of the towers so we all gather in the conference room and hear the pentagon was hit and another tower. I'm scared to take the metro home, some think DC might be under attack so I walk about 10 miles home to Maryland like the REM video with everyone walking. I get home and see an email from my brother who lives in the east village in NYC asking me what the fuck is going on since he's on his way to work and sees F16's flying by him.

What a fucked up day. To this day I can not watch any of the movies about this topic, it's just so fucked up on every level. I just hope our country can rebound from all the shit from the past 8 years............

 

[mike]

i think there was intel that something on this scale was about to happen, but what do you do with said Intel.......

seriously, would you have believed it possible prior to 911 that such a thing could happen ? i didnt. not that many planes and that many people all at once.... its beyond heinous, an atrocity so bad the whole planet is ground zero.

hindsight is 20/20, but keep in mind this had not happened yet, what do you do ?

if you shut down your society and transport infrastructure on "intel", you play into their hands,

being the lessor of evils doesnt not make it evil, but seriously if the powers that be "reacted" to every bit of intel coming in , we'd be crippled as a society.

look at the complaints over domestic flights delays today.... now imagine 911 never happened and the govt acting on "intel" imposed those new restrictions.......

the people and the industry would turn on the govt in a heartbeat and bleat that the delay and cost were untenable.

we had the same complaints here when australians were killed in the bali bombing.

and the answer was the same, we had some intel, but nothing concrete, if we reacted to every "story" like like we hear there would be no tourism...period

all the terror mongers would have to do is put out a new story every week and your done.

take a crystal clear look for just a moment

blame: the persons who took the pilots out of the driving seats, and by their own hand steered those planes to the target buildings.

its just that simple, the hands that held the yokes are those of the men who are ultimatly to blame, they made a personal choice to be complete and utter bastards and kill their fellow passengers.

and i honestly believe that if you could read Mr Bush's mind, you would "know" that if he could have saved those people he would have.

Mr bush and co did not kill these people, the unhumane gouls who steered the planes did

 

[pixelsmith]

and i honestly believe that if you could read Mr Bush's mind, you would "know" that if he could have saved those people he would have.

BULLSHIT!!!
he has had no problem killing SEVERAL THOUSANDS of people so far!

 

[mike]

"think" about it, he hasnt actually killed anyone with his bare hands, thousands may be dead but that is simply the natural unfolding that occurs in events like this.

the same thing happened in roman times....

and all i can say is to me its very clear that the people who first removed the legitimate pilots, and then steered the planes to destruction are the ones "directly" responsible as individual humans for what happened, and for that matter by extension the things that happened afterward.

you can dance around it with conspiracys if that helps you feel better, but the awful truth is when you par it all down to the core, these individuals possesed of free will, did wilfully and willingly steer these planes to destruction. they did it. THEY did it.

and we know from black box recordings they did so enthralled by their particular cultures native supersitions, truly believing they were going to eternal reward......

this conspiracy theory is just a bonus for them, a freebee....

i know whos responsible, the individuals who chose to steer these planes to destruction, who planned it as a demonstration of such appaling dimension.
thats the lowest denominator, the men whose hands were "at the wheel" when the planes crashed.
thats where the responsibility ultimatly sits, the problem is they are dead and cant be punished, to add insult to injury we know they did so happy as can be.
so we will never get justice, the bastards robbed us twice. its galling i know, but creating a new target that you can sink your teeth into wont give you "justice" if that target isnt really to blame. thats just another injustice on top of the original

 

[pixelsmith]

i challenge photoshop people to start here and work your way backwards or forwards.

911 Studies - Research into 9-11 Photos

or start here and enjoy. 911 Studies - Research into 9-11 Photos

then move on to here: 911 Studies - Research into 9-11 Photos

i do not see eye to eye on some things but OMG talk about crappy photoshop work.

since i am on dB's ignore list, someone might want to tell him to check this photoshop work out.

 

[pixelsmith]

this photo shows WTC 6 with a big gaping hole at GROUND level BEFORE either tower fell. WTF?!? the official report says building 6 was damaged by debris falling from 1 or 2. so... whats up with that?
911 Studies - Research into 9-11 Photos

 

[Anubis]

anubis can you tell me how a 757 could enter the pentagon airspace? the most heavily protected building in the world was allegedly impacted by a slow moving 757 that managed to avoid fighter planes ten miles away as well as missile defense systems at the pentagon. there are 2 radar systems at the pentagon, civilian and military. if the transponder was turned off and it had no IFF system installed it would have been a prinary target.

Nice dodge.

Since it is obvious your thermite theory does not hold water, you are attempting now to further the 'controlled demolition' theory by association with an event that occured outside New York State.

I have asked you several times in this thread to back up your claims with even the slightest proof. You have not. You have avoided every factual post I have made to the contrary to your claims, and followed up with something equally fantastic.

First you stated that the planes that crashed into the towers were operating at far less than the average capacity. I posted evidence that shows that one plane was largely under average capacity, one was largely over capacity, one was slightly under capacity and one was exactly average capacity. You chose not to counter this and moved on to your next claim.

You then posted that the WTC was brought down by a controlled demolition using thermite. Further, you stated that the termite was set off by a series of explosions just before the tower fell. I have posted suffiecient factual evidence about thermite that illustrates that this compound cannot be used in this manner, as it cannot be ignited by any kind of expolsive, conventional or otherwise. Additionally, if an amount of thermite required to melt the structural steel holding up the towers was ignited at ground level, the devestation would be so great there would be no way to cover it up.

Ignoring the thermite angle, you countered by posting that a "light aircraft" could not have done sufficient structural damage to the tower. I posted that a 767 weighing between 175,000 and 235,000 lbs is not by any means a "light aircraft", and Status4 went as far to figure out the kenetic energy of such a mass moving at 500+ MPH, and the potential damage such a mass would have on the WTC.

Tthere has been several posters in this thread that have taken the time to research your claim and dismiss them because the science does not fit, yet this has done absolutely nothing to dissuade you from perpetuating this ridiculous story. As such, please excuse me if I have grown bored of discussing it any further. At this point you might as well claim that the moon is made of green cheese.

 

[Astroboy]

i challenge photoshop people to start here and work your way backwards or forwards.

911 Studies - Research into 9-11 Photos

or start here and enjoy. 911 Studies - Research into 9-11 Photos

then move on to here: 911 Studies - Research into 9-11 Photos

i do not see eye to eye on some things but OMG talk about crappy photoshop work.

since i am on dB's ignore list, someone might want to tell him to check this photoshop work out.

Why in the wide wide world of sports would DB want to deal with material from Jack White? This is your photo analyst expert? Don't make me laugh.

Here is more on Jack White: Clavius: Bibliography - jack white

Jack White couldn't analyze his way out of a tin hat. It's good to know after all these years of JFK and Moon Landing Hoax theories that he still hasn't a clue with regard to perspective and camera angles and still uses crappy source material as evidence to do crappy analysis.

If Jack White is a photo analyst then Billy Mier is for real and I'm Jessica Alba's boybriend. Oh please God, make me a real boy!

 

[pixelsmith]

i agree jack white is not the best analyst by any wild stretch of the imagination. BUT that doesnt take away from the FACT that many photos were photoshopped.

as far as operating capacities. i really dont care how many were on the planes. if you want them to be full, fine. all planes had standing room only. happy now?

it has already been proven that thermate residue was found throughout the debris. i do not need to prove anything there. research a little dude.

the tower was designed to withstand multiple impacts from airliners. most of the deadly highly explosive (not) kerosine blew up on the outside of the building.

you really really need to research a little more dude.

 

[Anubis]

i agree jack white is not the best analyst by any wild stretch of the imagination. BUT that doesnt take away from the FACT that many photos were photoshopped.

as far as operating capacities. i really dont care how many were on the planes. if you want them to be full, fine. all planes had standing room only. happy now?

it has already been proven that thermate residue was found throughout the debris. i do not need to prove anything there. research a little dude.

the tower was designed to withstand multiple impacts from airliners. most of the deadly highly explosive (not) kerosine blew up on the outside of the building.

you really really need to research a little more dude.

There is no proof, logical or physical, to back up these claims. Reread what I posted and use a little (un)common sense. This is becoming boring. Then again, attempting to debate with fanatics usually is.

 

[pixelsmith]

There is no proof, logical or physical, to back up these claims. Reread what I posted and use a little (un)common sense. This is becoming boring. Then again, attempting to debate with fanatics usually is.

umm... bullshit. there is plenty of logical and physical proof to back up all claims.
you are correct about one thing. this is boring for me to debate someone with such little knowledge on this subject.

 

[cottonzway]

I have a question for status4, Astroboy, Anubis, Mike, and anyone else I may be missing who seem to be going back-and-forth with debates about 9/11 controlled demolitions.

You have made your point, as has pixilsmith on his.

Here is my question to you guys. Does your stance extend to forming a view on the whole events because you find the debates about a controlled demolition in NYC to be bunk? Does this form your opinion on the 9/11 events outside the debates that involve science and physics? What are your views on what took place on 9/11?

Thanks.

 

[Anubis]

Here is my question to you guys. Does your stance extend to forming a view on the whole events because you find the debates about a controlled demolition in NYC to be bunk?

I think I have illustrated the reasons why this silly theory about 'explosive thermite' could never have occurred in this reality, and backed up my reasons with facts that are easily available to anyone with an internet connection. Status4 has gone further to demonstrate the math behind the physics of a 200,000 lbs aircraft hitting the WTC at 500+ MPH. On the other hand, Pixelsmith has argued that we are wrong, and posted absolutely nothing, factual or otherwise, to back up anything he has said.

What Pixelsmith is doing is the equivalent of claiming that leprechauns exist, and countering that the rest of us do not know what we are talking about when he is inevitably laughed at. It hardly makes for a compelling arguement.

Does this form your opinion on the 9/11 events outside the debates that involve science and physics?

IMO, there is no debate outside of science and physics. If it happened in this reality, it is subject to the laws thereof. If the science and physics do to match the conspiracy being brought forward, the conspiracy simply did not happen.

What are your views on what took place on 9/11?

I think I have made my beliefs fairly clear in my previous posts. Reread what I have posted and look up the facts yourself if you do not believe me.

 

[cottonzway]

I think I have illustrated the reasons why this silly theory about 'explosive thermite' could never have occurred in this reality, and backed up my reasons with facts that are easily available to anyone with an internet connection. Status4 has gone further to demonstrate the math behind the physics of a 200,000 lbs aircraft hitting the WTC at 500+ MPH. On the other hand, Pixelsmith has argued that we are wrong, and posted absolutely nothing, factual or otherwise, to back up anything he has said.

What Pixelsmith is doing is the equivalent of claiming that leprechauns exist, and countering that the rest of us do not know what we are talking about when he is inevitably laughed at. It hardly makes for a compelling arguement.



IMO, there is no debate outside of science and physics. If it happened in this reality, it is subject to the laws thereof. If the science and physics do to match the conspiracy being brought forward, the conspiracy simply did not happen.



I think I have made my beliefs fairly clear in my previous posts. Reread what I have posted and look up the facts yourself if you do not believe me.

You are defending your postion instead of answering my questions directly. Why?

I asked you a pretty simple set of questons. Is it really that difficult to state your views, instead of suggesting I read through 20 pages of stuff to try and figure out your views outside of this debate on controlled demolitions on 9/11?

 

[Anubis]

You are defending your postion instead of answering my questions directly. Why?

Because I am sick to death of repeating myself ad nauseum and to be quite honest, I am growing very bored with this ridiculous thread.

However, to answer your question directly:

> Does your stance extend to forming a view on the whole events because you find the debates
> about a controlled demolition in NYC to be bunk?

Yes. The theory about a controlled demolition is complete bunk. I think I have stated such in this thread enough times already. When one posts a theory where the individual points can be easily challenged and dismissed, one should not assume the theory as a whole to be any more valid than the sum of its parts.

 

[cottonzway]

I wasn't asking you to "repeat" yourself as my question had nothing to do with the talking points in this thread.

I was asking what your (and others) take on the event is, outside of this part of the debate. Taking that out of consideration.

It seems to me that often people take this part, or some other part of the 9/11 events and then based the entire events on your arguement on a detailed point.

The point is, often, I see people who take this stance will isolate themselves from the TOPIC of 9/11 and instead form an entire view on an arguement that is only part of the story.

Thus, why I asked you all what you thought happened, and not in regards to buildings and whatnot.