June 21,2009

pupilstutor · Jun 23, 2009

howl · Jun 23, 2009

I normally do not make posts about UFO related subjects but I felt that this episode warranted one. I am 50 years old and have been following the UFO enigma for many years. There are few UFO cases, and I stress few, that have left the door open to the possibility of gaining a real and tangible foothold of understanding. Roswell and Shag Harbor to name a couple. But like the witnesses, Roswell is quickly diing off and most certainly is doomed to Myth. The interview with John Burroughs and Peter Robbins on 6-21-09 about the RFI, I feel, has once again opened the door and is begging for someone to walk thru. Unlike Roswell, the RFI is still fresh and ripe with witnesses. Will there be another Stanton Friedman or Don Scmidt to pursue this most intriging case? I hope so. I cant help but feel that there answers here. My BS detector has served me well over the past 50 years and it tells me that the story Mr. John Burroughs told here on the paracast was honest and sincere. I listened to it 3 consecutive times. I was absoultely in awe. I thought I knew everything there was to know about the RFI. Was I mistaken! There is an opportunity here. Ufology offers few of these. I hope it will be siezed upon with the same vigor and conviction as Roswell. Gene and David you have an opportunity to start the ball rolling with your show. I hope you run with it.

subject x · Jun 23, 2009

Good show, I really enjoyed it. I hadn't heard some of that info before, particularly the "second night" when the blue light passed through the vehicle. Very good guest, even though the hypnosis stuff is kinda dubious.

In reference to getting all the witnesses together: would it really make any difference? I mean, 10 guys in a room who don't know what it is they saw isn't any different than one guy who doesn't know what it is he saw, is it?

Sure, you could probably put together a reasonably accurate timeline, but that wouldn't explain what it was.

Would it?

threed · Jun 23, 2009

You cannot determine a person's veracity by their stage presence. Performance skills are a separate quality from veracity of content. Over a century of political debates ought to have demonstrated this fact.

None of us has access to the hard evidence. We watch the magician's act and are dazzled by the "facts" he claims to present. And we accept that as our proof.

The logical process must be followed in cases like this. As Carl Sagan used to say -- paraphrasing -- "The more extreme the claim, the more extreme the burden of proof."

Logic is not jumping to the most wildass possibility first (regardless of what the "witnesses" say). You must first look for the more rational (and probable) explanations, and solidly rule them out, before moving on to the more improbable possibilities.

howl · Jun 23, 2009

subject x said:
Good show, I really enjoyed it. I hadn't heard some of that info before, particularly the "second night" when the blue light passed through the vehicle. Very good guest, even though the hypnosis stuff is kinda dubious.

In reference to getting all the witnesses together: would it really make any difference? I mean, 10 guys in a room who don't know what it is they saw isn't any different than one guy who doesn't know what it is he saw, is it?

Sure, you could probably put together a reasonably accurate timeline, but that wouldn't explain what it was.

Would it?

There are tangibles here that can be addressed. I don't know how you feel about it but as for myself when Mr. Burroughs stated that he and the others had the impression they were dealing with time travelers floored me. This can not be taken lightly. With the right professionals involved the truth can be slowly brought to bare. Putting 10 people in a room will not do it alone...but you must start somewhere. Cheers!

jimbo83478 · Jun 23, 2009

I agree with the majority - excellent show, but there were 3 things that I think could have been more fleshed out if there was more time.

1. The missing time incident. What was fully gleaned from the hypnosis sessions? I feel like we didn't hear everything Burroughs had to say about what he learned from his sessions. Who were the hypnotists? Would Burroughs be willing to go to someone better equipped if it comes to light that the 3 previous hypnotists are not considered qualified? What is the full story from Adrian Bustinza (the man who was held down for 25 min during this incident)? Was he literally face down in the dirt for 25 min while Burroughs went missing? What else did he tell Burroughs?

2. Burroughs mentioned that there was something interesting about CNN's involvement. He said it only in passing but it piqued my curiosity.

3. The retrieval of something from the woods, which Burroughs claims is another story in and of itself.

As SR2 pointed out, a part 2 is definitely warranted, and if that happens maybe some of these points could be addressed? I don't mean to sound entitled or anything - just putting them out there...

howl · Jun 23, 2009

jimbo83478 said:
I agree with the majority - excellent show, but there were 3 things that I think could have been more fleshed out if there was more time.

1. The missing time incident. What was fully gleaned from the hypnosis sessions? I feel like we didn't hear everything Burroughs had to say about what he learned from his sessions. Who were the hypnotists? Would Burroughs be willing to go to someone better equipped if it comes to light that the 3 previous hypnotists are not considered qualified? What is the full story from Adrian Bustinza (the man who was held down for 25 min during this incident)? Was he literally face down in the dirt for 25 min while Burroughs went missing? What else did he tell Burroughs?

2. Burroughs mentioned that there was something interesting about CNN's involvement. He said it only in passing but it piqued my curiosity.

3. The retrieval of something from the woods, which Burroughs claims is another story in and of itself.

As SR2 pointed out, a part 2 is definitely warranted, and if that happens maybe some of these points could be addressed? I don't mean to sound entitled or anything - just putting them out there...

I completely agree with you. There are things about the RFI that has somehow been overlooked or ignored. I distictly recall Gene or David, not sure which one, was completely taken aback about the blue light. As I had mentioned in an earlier post I thought i knew everything there was to know about this incident. I do not. I wonder how many others are in that same boat? Somehow the intimate details of this encounter have slipped thru the cracks. There are questions that need to be answered. thyere is a unique opportunity here to rope in some truth...an opportunity that is rare in the study of ufology. What that truth is can only be determined thru aggresive pursuit of the facts. Who knows where it might lead?

Gareth · Jun 23, 2009

jimbo83478 said:
2. Burroughs mentioned that there was something interesting about CNN's involvement. He said it only in passing but it piqued my curiosity.

3. The retrieval of something from the woods, which Burroughs claims is another story in and of itself.

I agree. Whether its just Burroughs style to sound intriguing or mysterious, or whether there really was something interesting about the CNN coverage back in the day.

Either way, piqued my interest! I want to know more.

CapnG · Jun 23, 2009

A+, great show guys.

imSally · Jun 24, 2009

I can't add much to what has already been said. I just want to say this could be the best show you've done so far. Looking forward to hearing more about Bentwaters.

pupilstutor · Jun 24, 2009

Brian Now · Jun 24, 2009

I've never been especially interested in this case, but I found myself fairly wrapped up in this episode. Really enjoyable story and it makes me think and ask questions like:

Why would this phenomenon be interested in nuclear weapons?
Why haven't they worked out their radiation emission problem?
And why, why, why do all this at night with the brights on?

Good episode.

Apocalypto · Jun 24, 2009

I'm amazed that some people don't find this to be one of the most compelling UFO cases in history. I can only guess that some of you folks haven't read much on this case, otherwise you would be much more interested in learning more.

For those of you who are interested in actually learning more, I advise you - STRONGLY - to read Left at East Gate. It's utterly paramount if you want to understand the details of this event. Larry Warren's perspective on the events that occurred in Rendlesham Forest is fascinating and awe-inspiring. There is absolutely zero doubt in my mind that is in the top 3 UFO cases in modern history. Huge numbers of highly credible people saw these crafts as plain as day. Jim Penniston even TOUCHED the thing. Hell, he practically rode on top of it for a while. There is some discussion that he was leaning against it and the thing started moving away, carrying him with it! If that doesn't float your boat about this case, then I strongly urge you to go to see your doctor: You're quite possibly dead.

By the way, the events in 1980 are not the first overt UFO sighting in that area. In 1956 there was a very interesting sighting in the area of Bentwaters:

"On the night of August 13-14, 1956, radar operators at two military bases in the east of England repeatedly tracked single and multiple objects which displayed high speed, as well as rapid changes of speed and direction. Two jet interceptors were sent up, and were able to see and track them in a brief series of maneuvers. According to official U.S. Air Force reports, the sightings could not be explained by radar malfunction or by unusual weather."

1956: UFO Encounter / Jet Chase Over Bentwaters AFB, U. K.(Lakenheath) UFO Case Files, UFO Casebook

Also, Larry Warren also had a history of UFO sightings. He's seen them before. Some of us are all too familiar with the reality that many witnesses and experiencers are REPEAT witnesses and experiencers, whilst many others, myself included, never see anything in the way of unknown craft.

I really enjoyed getting to know Warren through this book. He sounds a lot like me, likes cars, rock music, women, fast planes... my kind of guy. I like his style and I like what he had to say. He had massive balls to come forward with his information.

I say KUDOS to you, Larry. And Peter did an excellent job on the book as well.

As far as Halt goes, I don't trust the guy for a second. Sure, some of the things he's had to said over the years are intriguing, but there's that classic mixed bag of the disinformation agent with him: lots of good information tossed in with some weird, sketchy half-truths and annoying coyness, all delivered with a kind of indignant attitude. He's a tough hombre, I'll give him that. But so what? He's hiding something. It's ironic that he let that tape out. I'd like to know if Mr. Burroughs or Robbins know how and why he let that tape out to begin with. Of course, he continues to hide other portions of the tape. Would love to hear what he's been hiding.

For those who don't know wtf I'm talking about when I mention "the tape", listen to the damned thing. Again, this is one of the greatest UFO cases of our times. If you continue to poo-poo it on this and other forums, even after doing some simple research, I'd have to contend that you're either very stupid or a disinformation agent.

There are just so many things about this case, unbelievable... the storm. That crazy storm in 1987. Winds hitting 100mph. 15 million trees blown down. 19 deaths. I say cloudbusting. They were playing around with those things on the base (cloudbusters) This was an early example of what they now do with chemtrails.

Forestry Commission - The Great Storm 1987

Left at East Gate
Book excerpt:

401 Unauthorized

Tons of meat in this one, kids. Just keep looking and you will see.

LT COLONEL HALT: Now were observing what appears to be a beam coming down to the ground.

[Excited shouting in the background]

MASTER SGT BALL: Look at the colours...shit

LT COLONEL HALT: This is unreal

Break in tape

pupilstutor · Jun 24, 2009

This is a web site devoted exclusively to the RFI:

Home page | The Rendlesham forest incident

threed · Jun 24, 2009

howl said:
I distictly recall Gene or David, not sure which one, was completely taken aback about the blue light

A runaway fission reaction is known to create a distinct blue glow around the uranium core.

howl · Jun 24, 2009

Apocalypto said:
I'm amazed that some people don't find this to be one of the most compelling UFO cases in history. I can only guess that some of you folks haven't read much on this case, otherwise you would be much more interested in learning more.

This is not neccessarily true. There are many facets of this case that have been overlooked and it all starts with Halt's memo. I for one happened to be very well informed about the UFO enigma and yet I have somehow missed some of the more intriguing aspects of the RFI. As far as reading Left at East Gate, which admitadily I have not, the author himself during the show admitted he knew nothing of the blue light incident of the 2nd night until he listened to a presentation by Linda Howl the night before. The reason I point all this out is this...it is quite apparent to me that there are many things about this case that are not common knowledge or are hidden away in some obscure article or document. I submit that the UFO community needs to start from scratch with this case and give it its "due" sort of speak like Roswell has. I think history will bare out that this may be the most important UFO case ever if the show from 6-21-09 has any validity at all.

As a side note there is another very interesting case that occurred at the same time of the RFI..and that is the Cash-Landrum case. It took place in the Piney woods near Huffman Texas. I have always wondered if there was a connection between the 2 seperate incidents. After listening to the show I wonder even more now as there are some very strange similarities between the 2 cases. Just a thought.

howl · Jun 24, 2009

threed said:
A runaway fission reaction is known to create a distinct blue glow around the uranium core.

Not knowing much about the ins and outs of nuclear devices I will take your word on this. However..would this explain the "blue light" that aledgedly flew thru 2 different viechles on 2 consecutive nights ( the 2nd and 3rd night )?

Schuyler · Jun 24, 2009

howl said:
As a side note there is another very interesting case that occurred at the same time of the RFI..and that is the Cash-Landrum case. It took place in the Piney woods near Huffman Texas. I have always wondered if there was a connection between the 2 seperate incidents. After listening to the show I wonder even more now as there are some very strange similarities between the 2 cases. Just a thought.

I'm curious as to what similarities you see between the two cases. In Cash-Landrum the UFO, seemingly in some sort of difficulty, never landed and was accompanied by a dozen or so helicopters escorting it. It is alleged that in the subsequent cover-up even the asphalt road over which it flew was replaced to destroy any evidence of its proximity. I suppose the 'radiation' is common between the two instances, but it was much stronger with Cash-Landrum and is blamed for giving both women cancer. Taking the witnesses testimony at face value I think even a casual observer is led to the conclusion that Cash-Landrum was some sort of military operation with an experimental craft.

No such conclusions can be drawn from Bentwaters, which seemed to flumox the military entirely. It seemed to involve the military base itself and its weapons stash, had surreal elements, landed and was even touched, involved many more people over a much longer time, and has some documentation. The 'radiation,' which is kind of a loose term anyway, seems to have been much milder and caused less damage, especially considering the proximity of the people. Other than the term 'UFO' being applied to both, I don't see any similiarities between them.

russhorseman · Jun 24, 2009

Apocalypto said:
I'm amazed that some people don't find this to be one of the most compelling UFO cases in history. I can only guess that some of you folks haven't read much on this case, otherwise you would be much more interested in learning more.

For those of you who are interested in actually learning more, I advise you - STRONGLY - to read Left at East Gate. It's utterly paramount if you want to understand the details of this event. Larry Warren's perspective on the events that occurred in Rendlesham Forest is fascinating and awe-inspiring. There is absolutely zero doubt in my mind that is in the top 3 UFO cases in modern history. Huge numbers of highly credible people saw these crafts as plain as day. Jim Penniston even TOUCHED the thing. Hell, he practically rode on top of it for a while. There is some discussion that he was leaning against it and the thing started moving away, carrying him with it! If that doesn't float your boat about this case, then I strongly urge you to go to see your doctor: You're quite possibly dead.

By the way, the events in 1980 are not the first overt UFO sighting in that area. In 1956 there was a very interesting sighting in the area of Bentwaters:

"On the night of August 13-14, 1956, radar operators at two military bases in the east of England repeatedly tracked single and multiple objects which displayed high speed, as well as rapid changes of speed and direction. Two jet interceptors were sent up, and were able to see and track them in a brief series of maneuvers. According to official U.S. Air Force reports, the sightings could not be explained by radar malfunction or by unusual weather."

1956: UFO Encounter / Jet Chase Over Bentwaters AFB, U. K.(Lakenheath) UFO Case Files, UFO Casebook

Also, Larry Warren also had a history of UFO sightings. He's seen them before. Some of us are all too familiar with the reality that many witnesses and experiencers are REPEAT witnesses and experiencers, whilst many others, myself included, never see anything in the way of unknown craft.

I really enjoyed getting to know Warren through this book. He sounds a lot like me, likes cars, rock music, women, fast planes... my kind of guy. I like his style and I like what he had to say. He had massive balls to come forward with his information.

I say KUDOS to you, Larry. And Peter did an excellent job on the book as well.

As far as Halt goes, I don't trust the guy for a second. Sure, some of the things he's had to said over the years are intriguing, but there's that classic mixed bag of the disinformation agent with him: lots of good information tossed in with some weird, sketchy half-truths and annoying coyness, all delivered with a kind of indignant attitude. He's a tough hombre, I'll give him that. But so what? He's hiding something. It's ironic that he let that tape out. I'd like to know if Mr. Burroughs or Robbins know how and why he let that tape out to begin with. Of course, he continues to hide other portions of the tape. Would love to hear what he's been hiding.

For those who don't know wtf I'm talking about when I mention "the tape", listen to the damned thing. Again, this is one of the greatest UFO cases of our times. If you continue to poo-poo it on this and other forums, even after doing some simple research, I'd have to contend that you're either very stupid or a disinformation agent.

There are just so many things about this case, unbelievable... the storm. That crazy storm in 1987. Winds hitting 100mph. 15 million trees blown down. 19 deaths. I say cloudbusting. They were playing around with those things on the base (cloudbusters) This was an early example of what they now do with chemtrails.

Forestry Commission - The Great Storm 1987

Left at East Gate
Book excerpt:

401 Unauthorized

Tons of meat in this one, kids. Just keep looking and you will see.

LT COLONEL HALT: Now were observing what appears to be a beam coming down to the ground.

[Excited shouting in the background]

MASTER SGT BALL: Look at the colours...shit

LT COLONEL HALT: This is unreal

Break in tape

The above post and the fantastic interaction within this forum is what I meant about Gene and David being the Last Men Standing when all is said and done. Great posts with very useful information. Thanks to all. This case seems to be gaining legs, thanks to the Paracast.

I met Larry and Peter years ago at the Journey's Beyond Conferences in Gulf Breeze, which my family produced (Pat and Buddy Crumbley). I'm fortunate to have met many of the UFO and paranormal "celebs" over the years, and there are only a few who I would say left an absolutely drop-dead positive impression. Something about the eyes, no kidding.

You see it in war veterans. Again, something about the eyes that has absorbed some deep trauma, and is reflected back when their story is revealed.

Travis Walton ("Fire in the Sky," "The Walton Experience") had this characteristic. I remember picking him and Mike Rogers up at the Pensacola airport. Understandably, they both looked tired, but Travis never seemed to shake that tired "look." They asked me to stop at the Gulf Breeze McDonald's, and while there, Travis maneuvered so that no one could sit next to him. He was also very short in casual conversation, and I learned to pretty much leave him alone. He threw out the vibe, and I respected his wish. That "look" never left his eyes throughout the weekend, and I absolutely believe his story. Travis entire personality, including body language and other difficult to fake subtleties, reflected (to me) someone who had absorbed a tremendous life event. He later loosened up (just a little) when I took photos of him and Mike at Shoreline Park, where the Gulf Breeze UFO was seen on many occasions (and not just by Ed Walters, btw).

Back to the point, Larry Warren had the "eye" thing when we met, and I absolutely believe his story. Throughout the conference, he radiated a powerful presence, which I attributed to total confidence in his experience. He never seemed to be "putting on an act." I will always remember how he told the audience (on multiple occasions), "I don't care whether you believe me or not...", which I respect tremendously. He wasn't there to be loved. He had an important story to tell, and (in my experience) when you're speaking the truth all you can do is throw it out there. The charlatans have a need to be "loved." Not Larry. Even in private moments outside the spotlight his story never wavered, and the look in his eyes was always intense.

One last recollection. It was difficult for both men to smile. Their intensity is something I haven't forgotten.

I agree that this case is the Roswell for our generation.

Gareth · Jun 25, 2009

I agree Schuyler. I don't see any similarities at all between Bentwaters and Cash-Landrum.

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