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Jesus Invented By The Romans?

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exo_doc said:
Interesting to see what is presented, and how solid is this? Curious.............:cool:
Joseph Atwill, biblical scholar, claims Romans invented Jesus as 'psychological warfare'
What does anyone think?
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When I tried to figure out whether or Jesus was actually real or fictitious, I came to the conclusion that he is fictitious, but in an interesting way, and not an invention of the Romans, though the Romans were catalysts. It seems from my reading, that Jesus was an invention of the Essenes, who used the mythological figure as a diversion to keep the Romans chasing their leader about the land rather than focusing on attacking them directly. After the Essene stronghold fell, it's inhabitants fled and took with them fragments of their stories, which have since been found here and there in scrolls and such, and were united by the retelling of the stories through several generations, evolving into a personification of their beliefs under the banner of Jesus. Interestingly, this personification gives the Jesus character those attributes that he is known for, e.g. an immortal and ethereal component of a greater religious picture ( the trinity ). So FWIW there's my version of Jesus Decoded in a nutshell.
 
ufology said:
When I tried to figure out whether or Jesus was actually real or fictitious, I came to the conclusion that he is fictitious, but in an interesting way, and not an invention of the Romans, though the Romans were catalysts. It seems from my reading, that Jesus was an invention of the Essenes, who used the mythological figure as a diversion to keep the Romans chasing their leader about the land rather than focusing on attacking them directly. After the Essene stronghold fell, it's inhabitants fled and took with them fragments of their stories, which have since been found here and there in scrolls and such, and were united by the retelling of the stories through several generations, evolving into a personification of their beliefs under the banner of Jesus. Interestingly, this personification gives the Jesus character those attributes that he is known for, e.g. an immortal and ethereal component of a greater religious picture ( the trinity ). So FWIW there's my version of Jesus Decoded in a nutshell.
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Nice... I do blame Constantine and Eusebius in no small part as well.
 
ufology said:
There's little doubt that the Romans usurped Christianity for its own purposes, but that was well after the grass roots cultural formation.
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Yes I agree with you on this, but the early form of what we would come to term Christianity was very splinted and mixed with other mythology's of the time.
I credit Constantine and Eusebius with the formalizing of the new born religion on a state level not with the whole sale creation of it (there are some that would argue that they did). There is also little doubt that they both had a large influence on the compilation of the "New Testaments". Interesting to note that if you have some knowledge of Buddhist teachings, especially Buddhist parables you can find altered versions in Christian mythology as well but I digress.

I guess this is what muddies the waters for the lay person trying to understand how the religion was born. For sure there was a grass roots movement centered around a "Jesus" like figure, but extracting this from many of the other religious movements of the time can be like sifting sand looking for an individual grain. Mithra and many others also parallel the Jesus myth and are more or less contemporary movements. As a side note many of the roman legionary of the time were followers of Mithra.
Hell I spent years looking into this and it still makes my head spin at its complexity.
 
Not to change the thread subject- but I have heard many NDE's where the subject meets Christ. Or someone they know to be Him. My grandfather had such an experience, when he actually shook hands while being told that he(grandpop) needed to go back, that he still had work to do. My grandfather had no doubt that it was Christ himself who he met at the end of a tunnel. Now, I realize this brings up a whole different controversial subject- but to me, experience is everything, and I believe my grandfather- for what it's worth.
 
It has been theorized, based on many other peoples NDE's, that the after life experience begins based on someones expectations. If you expect to see Jesus, you'll see him. If you expect to see Parapt Atman, or Vishnu, or Confucious, or the plains of Elysium, then that's what you'll experience.
We'll find out one day.
 
exo_doc said:
It has been theorized, based on many other peoples NDE's, that the after life experience begins based on someones expectations. If you expect to see Jesus, you'll see him. If you expect to see Parapt Atman, or Vishnu, or Confucious, or the plains of Elysium, then that's what you'll experience.
We'll find out one day.
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I have another one. This comes from my uncle's mother, as she lay on her death bed. My uncle came to visit her, and she told him a wild story about the previous night. She was of the Jewish faith, but laying in a catholic hospital with a crucifix hanging above the door. She told my uncle that the figure on the cross came to life, pulled himself from the cross and told her to come with him into the light that was shining behind him. She than yelled at him that she did not believe in him- at which time he morphed into an evergreen that was blazing on fire, again a voice telling her to come along now. She held out another day after telling this to my uncle before she finally passed. Now, common sense tells us the medication she was obviously on could have put her in the right state of mind to hallucinate the entire episode- but your post happened to remind me of my uncle's(by marriage) mother's final experience before she died. She was a stubborn one up to the very end.
 
Stagger Lee said:
Not to change the thread subject- but I have heard many NDE's where the subject meets Christ. Or someone they know to be Him. My grandfather had such an experience, when he actually shook hands while being told that he(grandpop) needed to go back, that he still had work to do. My grandfather had no doubt that it was Christ himself who he met at the end of a tunnel. Now, I realize this brings up a whole different controversial subject- but to me, experience is everything, and I believe my grandfather- for what it's worth.
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considering there is now an understanding that there is still some brain activity after death and that those that have an NDE are not "Clinically" dead for that long I tend to sway more toward the residual brain activity cause for most NDE.

Exo_Doc makes a very good point:

exo_doc said:
It has been theorized, based on many other peoples NDE's, that the after life experience begins based on someones expectations. If you expect to see Jesus, you'll see him. If you expect to see Parapt Atman, or Vishnu, or Confucious, or the plains of Elysium, then that's what you'll experience.
We'll find out one day.
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stonehart said:
considering there is now an understanding that there is still some brain activity after death and that those that have an NDE are not "Clinically" dead for that long I tend to sway more toward the residual brain activity cause for most NDE.
:
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Residual brain activity is a very real possibility. I can't remember who said this (and I am paraphrasing),"Sure lots of people have had NEAR death experiences. Near death, not actually staying dead for a few weeks then coming back. Dead is dead, ....not a near miss."
It's a valid point.
I would like to think we are more than materialistic electro-chemical powered bags of protoplasm. If you really want me to describe what I think I'll be glad too, but I'll forbear for fear of boring everyone.
 
exo_doc said:
Residual brain activity is a very real possibility. I can't remember who said this (and I am paraphrasing),"Sure lots of people have had NEAR death experiences. Near death, not actually staying dead for a few weeks then coming back. Dead is dead, ....not a near miss."
It's a valid point.
I would like to think we are more than materialistic electro-chemical powered bags of protoplasm. If you really want me to describe what I think I'll be glad too, but I'll forbear for fear of boring everyone.
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Post it Exo and people can chose to read and agree or not.. that is the great thing about this forum.
 
exo_doc said:
I would like to think we are more than materialistic electro-chemical powered bags of protoplasm. If you really want me to describe what I think I'll be glad too, but I'll forbear for fear of boring everyone.
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I don't find the subject boring. Try me.
 
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